Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said: Its like pistol whipping a blind kid so it hardly feels like a victory. You dont really bring anything original to the table so Sure thing little buddy. Suuuuure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I agree that RJ and Bledsoe represent such an allocation of resources. Losman I find to be a gray area since it doesn't quite mesh with the idea that they valued QB enough to make it their #1 priority. Thanks for checking me on that--it's an important distinction to draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Mason Rudolph upside= AJ McCarron upside but one was a 5th round pick. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mason-rudolph?id=2559942 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aj-mccarron?id=2543497 Plus AJ has NFL experience now, MR belongs no where near #12. We have that kind of upside right now! 100% agreement. I always like to add this one as well: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/nathan-peterman?id=2558191 Some people are in denial, but Rudolph is not the prospect they are dreaming up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, McD said: EJ Manual was taken with the Bills first pick in the '13 Draft. I'm all about being aggressive, but do you throw away an entire Draft in the "hopes" that a guy can be the one? I'm not overly excited about ANY of these QB's but everyone is going crazy about grabbing one. Is it a need? Yep a big one. Would I like to get one with our first pick? Sure. Do I want to have a shiny new toy with nobody for him to throw the ball to? With a 30 yr old RB and an O-Line that needs help and depth. Does he sit on the sideline while our porous D can't stop the run and has a hard time getting to the QB and can't cover a TE? I mean a good young QB could be put into a HORRIBLE situation and be damaged forever if not in a good system/position. Forget about reasoning with a pack of food-starved, crazed rabid dogs drooling over what they see is a tasty morsel of something they haven't had for over two decades. Right now every QB in the top few look like the next Jim Kelly to them. Everyone wants the next Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson and what they will get is another Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson all go in the first round and probably only two will beat the odds and have good success in the NFL. Which two? As for me, I'd like to keep all the 2018 picks and steal this guy away from Pittsburgh at 22 for leaving us holding our JP Losman. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/3/3/17073246/mason-rudolph-draft-oklahoma-state-qb-2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDman Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just trade up already 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Get to 2 Get to 2 Get to 2 Get to 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: What Else Would The Giants Want, Sheeesh! Exactly, I just did a draft on fanspeak and here is a sample of what the choice would look like... 2018 Starting QB: AJ McCarron (no trade up) with… 12: R1P12 LB TREMAINE EDMUNDS VIRGINIA TECH 22: R1P22 LB RASHAAN EVANS ALABAMA 53: R2P21 WR D.J. CHARK LSU 65: R3P1 RB NICK CHUBB GEORGIA 96: R3P32 QB KYLE LAULETTA RICHMOND 2018 Starting QB: Josh Rosen (after the trade up to #2) with… 56: R2P24 C JAMES DANIELS IOWA 96: R3P32 DL TIM SETTLE Plus no 2nd round pick in 2019 It's very startling when you see a sample of giving up that many prime picks, then you add in the concussion issues with Rosen, along with his possible lack of passion for the game. It's easy to see why the Bills would just forget about trading up and build up a great team around McCarron. BTW, there will be a very good player at #12 if 4 or 5 of these QBs go before their pick. Edited March 20, 2018 by 1billsfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 The few Giants fans on their message board (man, we are lucky with this board) are demanding the 2019 1st as part of the package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Incarcerated Bob fabrication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Juggernaut Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I trust Imprisoned Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, K-9 said: I am in agreement with the spirit of this post. And I agree, now is the time. However, I continue to maintain that we can't exclude trades of their first round draft slots for QBs: Rob Johnson for the their #9 pick in the '98 draft Drew Bledsoe for their #14 pick in '03 draft JP Losman for their #20 pick in the '05 draft And no, that's not splitting hairs. Those are examples of their actual first round investments in QBs over the years. No need to respond or start a tangent debate on the subject. Like I said, I agree with the spirit of your post. My quibble is treating a future first rounder as equivalent to a first rounder given that it should be discounted by a round. Regardless, they've never had the guts to take a guy fresh out of college with their first slotted pick. In the cases of RJ and Bledsoe, they let other NFL teams develop them first and formed opinions based on their pro experience, not their college experience. That is a BIG difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Forget about reasoning with a pack of food-starved, crazed rabid dogs drooling over what they see is a tasty morsel of something they haven't had for over two decades. Right now every QB in the top few look like the next Jim Kelly to them. Everyone wants the next Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson and what they will get is another Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson all go in the first round and probably only two will beat the odds and have good success in the NFL. Which two? As for me, I'd like to keep all the 2018 picks and steal this guy away from Pittsburgh at 22 for leaving us holding our JP Losman. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/3/3/17073246/mason-rudolph-draft-oklahoma-state-qb-2018 Yes, waiting and taking whatever QB is left later in the draft has worked out extremely well for the team these last 30 drafts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My quibble is treating a future first rounder as equivalent to a first rounder given that it should be discounted by a round. Regardless, they've never had the guts to take a guy fresh out of college with their first slotted pick. In the cases of RJ and Bledsoe, they let other NFL teams develop them first and formed opinions based on their pro experience, not their college experience. That is a BIG difference. It is NO difference in the expenditure of their draft capital. No matter how you slice it, the Bills used their first pick in the '98 draft on Rob Johnson, the #9 pick overall, etc. Too me, what's quibbling over split hairs is the '83 draft where folks like to point out how we took Hunter instead of Kelly at 12 vs. 14, respectively. I get it, but there just isn't that much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Forget about reasoning with a pack of food-starved, crazed rabid dogs drooling over what they see is a tasty morsel of something they haven't had for over two decades. Right now every QB in the top few look like the next Jim Kelly to them. Everyone wants the next Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson and what they will get is another Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson all go in the first round and probably only two will beat the odds and have good success in the NFL. Which two? As for me, I'd like to keep all the 2018 picks and steal this guy away from Pittsburgh at 22 for leaving us holding our JP Losman. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/3/3/17073246/mason-rudolph-draft-oklahoma-state-qb-2018 Who hurt you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: He had no supporting cast. From a sheer athletic standpoint he is faster than Rosen and Darnold, has a bigger arm than both of them as well. Allen by far has a higher ceiling than any prospect in the draft, by far. I'm confused. Josh Allen had as good a supporting cast as Lamar Jackson yet Jackson had better stats, won more games against top flight competition and won the Heisman trophy but Allen is a better prospect? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: He had no supporting cast. From a sheer athletic standpoint he is faster than Rosen and Darnold, has a bigger arm than both of them as well. Allen by far has a higher ceiling than any prospect in the draft, by far. Allen is also faster than Mayfield, which man people ignore. Small and slow combination no bueno unless you are a once in a lieftime Drew Brees. Allen is going to go very high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Allen is also faster than Mayfield, which man people ignore. Small and slow combination no bueno unless you are a once in a lieftime Drew Brees. Allen is going to go very high. Allen with Oklahoma's talent and coaching would be the clear #1 in fans minds IMO. I don't think NFL scouts and decision makers have Baker anywhere near as high as fans do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said: Allen is also faster than Mayfield, which man people ignore. Small and slow combination no bueno unless you are a once in a lieftime Drew Brees. Allen is going to go very high. Mayfield isn't "slow" on the field. He can run if need be. He is no Lamar Jackson of course, but he is quick/fast enough to scramble if a hole opens up or if he needs to buy a little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bills Juggernaut said: I trust Imprisoned Robert. Lock him up! Lock him up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said: I really am interested to see some comparison of Davis Webb to some of the guys in this draft. I know he feel to the third last year. If he were in this draft where would he rank? That should have some effect on the Giants thinking. Davis Webb was the 7th ranked QB in 2017; taken as the fifth QB and given a 5.4 rating - I've gone pretty far down the rankings for this year. Once you get to 5.4 NFL Tracker is notably unreliable. FWIW, Nathan Peterman was rated 5.7 - as was McCarron. A ranking of 5.7 would be "Early NFL Starter" - and Webb did not qualify. In recent years I believe only Dak Prescott scored below a 5.5 and actually was a first year starter. I can't say for other positions, but I find the ranking system for QBs to be pretty remarkable in terms of where players are drafted relative to peers. PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE GRADE WATCH DARNOLD, SAM* QB 6'3" 220 USC 7.0 ROSEN, JOSH* QB 6'4" 226 UCLA 6.1 MAYFIELD, BAKER QB 6'1" 215 Oklahoma 6.0 ALLEN, JOSH QB 6'5" 233 Wyoming 6.0 JACKSON, LAMAR* QB 6'3" 200 Louisville 5.9 RUDOLPH, MASON QB 6'5" 235 Oklahoma St. 5.6 WHITE, MIKE QB 6'4" 225 Western Kentucky 5.6 Edited March 20, 2018 by Tyrod's friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, H2o said: Mayfield isn't "slow" on the field. He can run if need be. He is no Lamar Jackson of course, but he is quick/fast enough to scramble if a hole opens up or if he needs to buy a little time. I’m not a Rudolph guy, but he is the same way. He can pick up 1st downs with his legs if the play breaks down. He ran pretty impressively in the bowl game IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, H2o said: Mayfield isn't "slow" on the field. He can run if need be. He is no Lamar Jackson of course, but he is quick/fast enough to scramble if a hole opens up or if he needs to buy a little time. That sounds good on paper but when all of the guys on defense are bigger and faster than you in the NFL you are likely to get yourself killed. Unless Preston Brown is the linebacker across from you. Then you are free to scramble all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, cd1 said: TOO MUCH Capital for a crap shoot. I agree!! Bills have too many holes to give away picks in a talent rich draft!! Get your QB @12 and build your roster. Beane said he likes to build his teams through the draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't.[debilitate a team for years] ... The Washington Redskins are calling to say Hi. Something about not having a good draft position for years, and only getting freaking lucky a 4th round pick ... um .. FELL INTO THEIR LAPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. And in the 17 years of the drought the highest the Bills have drafted is 3, Marcel Dareus and 4, Mike Williams. Picking high in the draft doesn’t even guarantee one is going to drop in your lap. Make your evaluations and go get your guy! Edited March 20, 2018 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said: Davis Webb was the 7th ranked QB in 2017; taken as the fifth QB and given a 5.4 rating - I've gone pretty far down the rankings for this year. Once you get to 5.4 NFL Tracker is notably unreliable. FWIW, Nathan Peterman was rated 5.7 - as was McCarron. A ranking of 5.7 would be "Early NFL Starter" - and Webb did not qualify. In recent years I believe only Dak Prescott scored below a 5.5 and actually was a first year starter. I can't say for other positions, but I find the ranking system for QBs to be pretty remarkable in terms of where players are drafted relative to peers. PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE GRADE WATCH DARNOLD, SAM* QB 6'3" 220 USC 7.0 ROSEN, JOSH* QB 6'4" 226 UCLA 6.1 MAYFIELD, BAKER QB 6'1" 215 Oklahoma 6.0 ALLEN, JOSH QB 6'5" 233 Wyoming 6.0 JACKSON, LAMAR* QB 6'3" 200 Louisville 5.9 RUDOLPH, MASON QB 6'5" 235 Oklahoma St. 5.6 WHITE, MIKE QB 6'4" 225 Western Kentucky 5.6 Thanks for that. It helps put things in perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I've asked this a few times, but haven't really gotten a response from anyone else, so I'll ask you... This franchise has been in existence for almost 60 years, and has never used it's first draft slot to select a QB. If now is not the time to be aggressive, then when? Ritchie Lucas says ‘Hello’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Lurker said: Define first. There was Manual (#16) in 2013... Manuel was all you could come up with there? Kelly was the Bills 2nd 1st rd pick in 83. Then, we wanted to not be left out of the QB party when the Big Ben deal fell through and traded BACK into the 1st and took none other than JP Losman - the best of the rest type deal. 2013 was a poor QB year which figures, bc Buffalo was dead set on taking a qb. Even after a trade back they still got the 1st off the board - your man EJ. So, what he meant was NEVER have the Bills identified a guy at the top in a qlty crop and said 'lets get this guy'. Kelly aside, its been low rd pick projects, bad qb crops, or reaches. Now, they have a VERY unique opportunity. Tons of ammo/draft capital. Tons of talent. Tons of need. Tons of future cap space. Even TONS of fans ok with a building year. Its a perfect storm for them to take their shot on a top talent with a top pick and hope it sets them up for the next 10-15 years. Along with it comes Tons of anticipation:) Trading a TON and missing can be almost as detrimental as going all in on a so-so guy or keep deferring and drafting in a year like 2013 where there was zip EVEN if you picked the best. For these reasons and im sure i missed a few - its a good time to change the Bills QB draft history.... for better or worse... but hopefully better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, no it can't. It's one draft class--if you get it wrong, you go after another QB next offseason. I swear, some folks think that if you wait long enough a franchise QB just drops into your lap. It's been 20 years since Kelly retired; it would've happened by now if that approach worked. If you wait long enough the league will feel sorry for you and give you a free QB. However, if you trade up and draft a QB at the top of the draft and he busts, the NFL will take the team and move it to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said: And in the 17 years of the draft the highest the Bills have drafted is 3, Marcel Dareus and 4, Mike Williams. Picking high in the draft doesn’t even guarantee one is going to drop in your lap. Make your evaluations and go get your guy! Exactly. The point is that you have to capitalize on the opportunity to get your guy when you have the chance. It's no different than needing a QB and having the No. 2 overall pick--you're in position to get your guy, so you do it without question. Right now, Buffalo has the draft capitol to get in position to get their guy; not doing it would be the height of insanity IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia13 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Sure thing little buddy. Suuuuure thing. I knew we were going to become great friends eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. We would literally still have a full draft. But "wait til next year"..."the time isn't right"...and ten years of 7-9 to 9-7 go by with every team in that stretch having at least one franchise qb while we sit on our thumbs spinning in circles making sure we have our Matt Milanos and Karlos Williams's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Ritchie Lucas says ‘Hello’. Two full decades before my time, but wasn't Lucas a signee in the inaugural AFL "free agent" (for lack of a better term) chase? I could be wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, #34fan said: ALL THAT???? -For kid who may not even be able to play??? This, people, is exactly why you tank... -It only hurts ONCE... -This trade could debilitate a team for the better part of a decade. How so? Let's say the proposed trade happens. The Bills will have the #2 pick, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks. How would it debilitate the team even if the QB flames out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Exactly. The point is that you have to capitalize on the opportunity to get your guy when you have the chance. It's no different than needing a QB and having the No. 2 overall pick--you're in position to get your guy, so you do it without question. Right now, Buffalo has the draft capitol to get in position to get their guy; not doing it would be the height of insanity IMO This is "Trust The Process." Trading away players and dumping salaries has all led to this point, the Bills can not sit on their hands here and kick the can down the road. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneykm Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Getting multiple potential starters at multiple different positions vs taking a shot at a franchise QB. Its time to take our shot at an elite QB. Edited March 20, 2018 by rodneykm 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: That sounds good on paper but when all of the guys on defense are bigger and faster than you in the NFL you are likely to get yourself killed. Unless Preston Brown is the linebacker across from you. Then you are free to scramble all you want. Mayfield is a QB first and all QB's get hit from time to time. He is not Lamar Jackson running around all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, the skycap said: I'm confused. Josh Allen had as good a supporting cast as Lamar Jackson yet Jackson had better stats, won more games against top flight competition and won the Heisman trophy but Allen is a better prospect? Jackson had a better supporting cast, I bet you more players from Louisville get drafted than players from Wyoming. Would you like to bet me on that? Allen has a better arm than Jackson, much better size, can take more punishment, I think Allen would have posted better stats than Jackson had he played for Louisville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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