Josh Rosen has "Bust" written ALL over him.

[Nihilarian]

I don't care for Rosen or Darnold the top two QB's in this year's draft. Rosen with his durability concern with two concussions this past season and past shoulder surgery and if that isn't enough he doesn't have a very powerful arm. 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

41 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Good so again Rosen has a good enough arm 

Darnold has one too. 

 

Guess people want the new JP can throw it threw a wall (well if he can hit the wall) in Allen

No, that's not the same thing. All I am saying is sufficient or good arm strength is more important than sufficient or good ball placement. If you don't have arm strength you cannot play. If you don't have ball placement you still can, and maybe pretty well.

 

But a player with good arm strength and great ball placement is much more desirable than a player with great arm strength and good ball placement. Which is what I think you are saying and I understand. But you have to have a good enough arm.

 

I would never imply let alone say that having arm strength makes you any good whatsoever. Like your JP reference. Frankly, I don't get the Josh Allen fascination either. Although I admit I have seen the other guys more.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Kelly the Dog

[Ittakestime]

8 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Simms has turned into a hot take diva. I like some of his analysis, but he has became completely hyperbolic to get attention and I think it's working for him. He's entertaining, I just think he goes a bit over the top at times. 

 

His track record for QBs and RBs is good so I put some more stock into what he says. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, mannc said:

What does one have to do with the other? When did college completion percentage become the main criterium for NFL success?

 

It's not sufficient of course....many QB who have high completion percentage, particularly in college spread offenses, do not become successful pros.

But it's a benchmark....there are very few college QB who have <60% completion any year of their college career who become successful in the pros.  It's a "watch out".

 

At the very least, if a guy doesn't complete at least 60% of his passes, you need to look very carefully at why.  And in Allen's case, one debunked claim is that his WR dropped a high number of balls.  Rosen's did, and Jackson's did, but Allen's WR had one of the lowest drop %.

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, that's not the same thing. All I am saying is sufficient or good arm strength is more important than sufficient or good ball placement. If you don't have arm strength you cannot play. If you don't have ball placement you still can, and maybe pretty well.

 

Really.  Tell me more about this. 

[DCOrange]

25 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

That wasn't a highlight reel. It was just 1 game.

 

He went 35-59, with 491 yards and 4 touchdowns. They were down by 34 points near the end of the 3rd quarter. He led 5 straight touchdown drives (of 66 yards or longer) to score 35 unanswered points and win the game. 

 

It was the 2nd largest comeback victory in NCAA history. 

He was absolutely brilliant. I would highly suggest watching the game on YouTube sometime for anyone that's interested (or at least the 3rd and 4th quarters). 

I think he was actually pretty bad in that game. If Texas A&M could catch he would have had like 6 turnovers in that game. It was a classic case of a team snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Having said that, Rosen's a very good prospect; he had far better games that one.

Edited March 13, 2018 by DCOrange

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not sufficient of course....many QB who have high completion percentage, particularly in college spread offenses, do not become successful pros.

But it's a benchmark....there are very few college QB who have <60% completion any year of their college career who become successful in the pros.  It's a "watch out".

 

At the very least, if a guy doesn't complete at least 60% of his passes, you need to look very carefully at why.  And in Allen's case, one debunked claim is that his WR dropped a high number of balls.  Rosen's did, and Jackson's did, but Allen's WR had one of the lowest drop %.

Plus the kind of passes they throw. I guy who throws a lot of screens and dumpoffs and WR screens is going to have a much better completion %. I think it's not really a good indication. A low one does have cause for great concern. A high one doesn't automatically mean highly accurate.

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Klaista2k said:

He was playing beyond a terrible offensive line and with below average receivers. 

 

 

 

 

Playing against terrible cornerbacks and pass rushers.  

 

Allen stinks.  

[Nihilarian]

PICK

5

Baker Mayfield - QB, Oklahoma

 

 

PROJECTED TRADE WITH BRONCOS. The Bills are willing to make a big move (giving up their two first-round picks this year plus a 2019 second-rounder) to get a quarterback after Sean McDermott falls in love with Mayfield's fiery demeanor. Denver is a willing trade partner after addressing the QB spot in free agency.

 

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917695/article/fourround-mock-draft-allen-goes-no-1-bills-cardinals-trade-up

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Really.  Tell me more about this. 

 

You just witnessed three straight years of it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

You just witnessed three straight years of it.

 

Tell me more about this QB who played in the NFL, and played well, despite having poor ball placement.

[Luka]

25 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Did you consider Eli elite during the prime of his career?

 

I still do. Eli is highly underrated. You can't look at this past season and proclaim he's terrible. That's short sighted and ignorant. Half the team was on IR. He's won the big game, he's had great seasons and he's been let down by the complete lack of any kind of running game the past few years. Any QB sturggles when the team is one dimensional.

[BillsFan4]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I think he was actually pretty bad in that game. If Texas A&M could catch he would have had like 6 turnovers in that game. It was a classic case of a team snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Having said that, Rosen's a very good prospect; he had far better games that one.

He wasn't very good in the first half of that game. That last 20 mins or so was amazing though! 

 

14 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I've watched that game a few times, and he was quite good. I'd be happy if we drafted him. That said, there are two or three dropped interceptions in that game - one inexplicably that went right through the hands of the defender into the arms of the receiver for a long TD. Could use that mojo on the bills amirite

 

I remember that throw you're talking about. There was definitely luck involved that's for sure! Most times that is an interception not a TD. 

 

But it was still a brilliant comeback victory. 

[Alvarado50]

Agree 100%

Rosen = Leaf

[Luka]

1 minute ago, Alvarado50 said:

Agree 100%

Rosen = Leaf

 

Then Mayfield = Manziel.

 

Really if you want to draw an apt comparison Rosen is actually Jay Cutler. The question is does he have a better attitude.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Luka

[Lurker]

52 minutes ago, No Cease Fires said:

I have a hard time believing that the guy with the best mechanics is the most likely to bust. 

 

Now here's a guy with "bust" written all over him...

 

 

Him too....

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Lurker

[Chicken Boo]

44 minutes ago, Putin said:

And you know this because????

 

Because Beane is smart.

[YoloinOhio]

24 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

No, that's not the same thing. All I am saying is sufficient or good arm strength is more important than sufficient or good ball placement. If you don't have arm strength you cannot play. If you don't have ball placement you still can, and maybe pretty well.

 

But a player with good arm strength and great ball placement is much more desirable than a player with great arm strength and good ball placement. Which is what I think you are saying and I understand. But you have to have a good enough arm.

 

I would never imply let alone say that having arm strength makes you any good whatsoever. Like your JP reference. Frankly, I don't get the Josh Allen fascination either. Although I admit I have seen the other guys more.

 

 

The QB with the best ball placement I’ve seen live: Andrew Luck. Absurd. 

[Putin]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Because Beane is smart.

Well you made it sound like it's a fact so I just wanted to know your source 

 

[DCOrange]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

He wasn't very good in the first half of that game. That last 20 mins or so was amazing though! 

 

 

I remember that throw you're talking about. There was definitely luck involved that's for sure! Most times that is an interception not a TD. 

 

But it was still a brilliant comeback victory. 

 

Eh, those last 20 minutes included like 3 or 4 passes that should have been picked off. A&M just completely collapsed.

 

 

During the comeback:

4:05 - Fumbles but his team thankfully recovered

6:50 - An absolutely horrible throw that should have sealed the game and it somehow turns into a UCLA TD

7:20 - Tough catch, but another poor decision that hits the linebacker right in the hand.

8:15 - It's 1st down and he decides it's a good idea to make what's basically a leaping backwards off the wrong foot throw and just throws it up for grabs and his team happens to come up with it.

8:42 - Almost picked off by 2 different guys

9:07 - Throws it right to the defense but they drop it again

 

That game was won by an absolute act of God haha. Definitely one of the most fun college games to watch this year, but I'd look at his performance against USC as the one that gets you really excited about him as a prospect personally.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Klaista2k said:

He was playing beyond a terrible offensive line and with below average receivers. 

 

 

 

 

He was also playing against schools like Texas State, Gardner Webb, San Jose State, Hawaii etc....

The only good programs he faced were Oregon and Iowa.

[xxxxxxxx]

Out of all the qbs in the draft, Rosen is the safest choice. Most of the knocks on him are superficial. And I'm glad that they are, because he really shouldn't slip past number 1. And no, the Ryan Leaf comparisons are not even close. Ryan Leaf was an athletic QB who wasn't known for his IQ. Rosen is criticized for acting like he's too smart, which is a pretty dumb flaw, if you ask me. His family is highly educated, and he hates trump, so I can't think of anyone who would be more fired up to go against the pats twice a year.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by MURPHD6

[QuoteTheRaven83]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/02/2018_nfl_draft_josh_rosen_highlights_scouting_report_and_fit_with_buffalo_bills.html

 

I like this one on Rosen better ... lol

 

Or this -

 

 

 

6:08 mark. Probably one of the greatest passes to a defensive player that wasn't intercepted. 

[Turk71]

2 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Rosen is smart though. I think there is no chance he busts, he may be a disappointment, he may never be a franchise QB, but I think he is starter material. I don't like his attitude, no fire, no competitive attitude. Which is why I'm all in on Mayfield, he is all heart.

 I definitely think there is a chance he busts. The guy had two concussions last year alone and an injury history going back to high school. He does not have a solid build. I live in Eugene and follow Pac 12 football. Rosen has never impressed me as a football player, he looks the part but I question his heart and will to be the best. No one is a sure fire winner and I am not sold on any 1 qb. I am not prepared for the Bills  to suck while waiting and hoping the guy they pick is the one. This team made the playoffs with sub par qb play, no reason they couldn't go further with better qb and improved talent on both sides. I would prefer they sign one of the better fa qbs and a great prospect like Mayfield. Win now and in the future. Why put all your eggs in one uncertain basket, if it doesn't work you suck for a few years and have to start over. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Turk71

[Fetou]

More like Rosen is going to bust all over the league for 12 years. 

[Kelly the Dog]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Tell me more about this QB who played in the NFL, and played well, despite having poor ball placement.

Tyrod. He's been a starter for three years and played pretty well under any circumstances outside of insane Bills fans. He finished with decent numbers considering all factors. He just got traded for the 65 pick. He's getting middle of the pack starter money. He got to the playoffs. That's "pretty well." And he has a strong arm but poor ball placement.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

2 hours ago, Klaista2k said:

He was playing beyond a terrible offensive line and with below average receivers. 

 

 

 

And none of that changes by coming to Buffalo. 

[Doc Brown]

54 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

I still do. Eli is highly underrated. You can't look at this past season and proclaim he's terrible. That's short sighted and ignorant. Half the team was on IR. He's won the big game, he's had great seasons and he's been let down by the complete lack of any kind of running game the past few years. Any QB sturggles when the team is one dimensional.

I've always considered him in that second tier of very good but not elite.  Definitely a franchise QB though and I think Rosen will have a similar career.  I'd love to jump up and get Rosen.

[The Bills Blog]

A couple of things:

 

I think many of you who are touting his physical characteristics and smarts are overlooking the fact that there are major questions about his personality and leadership -- areas in which a quarterback must be strong in order to succeed. You can't overlook those things. If there are questions about your quarterback's effort, passion for the game, etc., you're in trouble. Guys aren't following that.

 

For the record, I don't think we should draft Baker Mayfield either (even though many people seem to think that being down on Rosen is synonymous with loving Mayfield).

 

Also, the reason I didn't post the strengths listed in the scouting report is because I truly believe that you have to look at a prospect's weaknesses, not strengths, as the foremost part of the evaluation. You want to evaluate his floor first.

[Doc Brown]

55 minutes ago, Alvarado50 said:

Agree 100%

Rosen = Leaf

Leaf had a 53.8 completion % in college (55% his final year).  Rosen's at 60.9% (62.6% his final year).  We really don't know if Rosen's attitude was similar to Leaf's.  The Bills have to do their due diligence on him.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, The Bills Blog said:

A couple of things:

 

I think many of you who are touting his physical characteristics and smarts are overlooking the fact that there are major questions about his personality and leadership -- areas in which a quarterback must be strong in order to succeed. You can't overlook those things. If there are questions about your quarterback's effort, passion for the game, etc., you're in trouble. Guys aren't following that.

 

For the record, I don't think we should draft Baker Mayfield either (even though many people seem to think that being down on Rosen is synonymous with loving Mayfield).

 

Also, the reason I didn't post the strengths listed in the scouting report is because I truly believe that you have to look at a prospect's weaknesses, not strengths, as the foremost part of the evaluation. You want to evaluate his floor first.

 

Find me ONE just ONE teammate that has anything  NEGATIVE about his personality. 

 

With How much is Said about how negative his personality is there must be A BUNCH of them

Edited March 13, 2018 by MAJBobby

[No Cease Fires]

6 minutes ago, The Bills Blog said:

A couple of things:

 

I think many of you who are touting his physical characteristics and smarts are overlooking the fact that there are major questions about his personality and leadership -- areas in which a quarterback must be strong in order to succeed. You can't overlook those things. If there are questions about your quarterback's effort, passion for the game, etc., you're in trouble. Guys aren't following that.

 

That personality/leadership stuff is mostly noise. His teammates seem plenty supportive of him. Now, the injury concerns, that I can understand being a red flag (though I think he's worth the risk).

Edited March 13, 2018 by No Cease Fires

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/02/2018_nfl_draft_josh_rosen_highlights_scouting_report_and_fit_with_buffalo_bills.html

 

I like this one on Rosen better ... lol

 

Or this -

 

 

 

Two most obvious things about that video...Rosen clearly doesn't like football and his teammates hate him.

[Turk71]

9 minutes ago, No Cease Fires said:

 

That personality/leadership stuff is mostly noise. His teammates seem plenty supportive of him. Now, the injury concerns, that I can understand being a red flag (though I think he's worth the risk).

On the west coast there has been talk of him not being universally liked by his teammates for years now. All of the sudden during draft evaluation that is all not true. I am not buying it, also why did he not put up better numbers? The PAC is not exactly known for its fearsome defenses. I think he is just as likely or more likely to bust as any of the top qbs. 

[simool]

Awesome.  I am a breast man.  If our QB has bust written all over him, he must be a breast man too.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

On the west coast there has been talk of him not being universally liked by his teammates for years now. All of the sudden during draft evaluation that is all not true. I am not buying it, also why did he not put up better numbers? The PAC is not exactly known for its fearsome defenses. I think he is just as likely or more likely to bust as any of the top qbs. 

 

Find me ONE teammate just one That says ANYTHING bad about him. 

 

I will wait 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

On the west coast there has been talk of him not being universally liked by his teammates for years now. All of the sudden during draft evaluation that is all not true. I am not buying it, also why did he not put up better numbers? The PAC is not exactly known for its fearsome defenses. I think he is just as likely or more likely to bust as any of the top qbs. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000918506/article/exucla-teammate-calls-josh-rosen-onceinamillennium-qb

 

Here's an interview with one of his former teammates. Seems to me he's pretty well liked.

[MAJBobby]

Heres one. Ooo wait nevermind all good about Rosen

 

Well, one of those teammates, offensive lineman Scott Quessenberry (pictured), is having none of it.

"I love Josh," Quessenberry said Thursday. "We're close. We're tight. When I saw him here for the first time in two months, I gave him a big bear hug." Quessenberry even said he hoped Rosen would someday be part of his wedding.

 

Now, every scouting combine is full of tepid endorsements by teammates of big-name prospects who have character questions. You practically have to be Kylo Ren for teammates to bad-mouth you to the national media.

 

But Quessenberry wasn't reciting he's a swell teammate platitudes. He was practically pounding the podium.

 

"The media puts out what they put out, and his teammates dispute everything the media puts out," Quessenberry said. "I said it before, I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying it until the end of my days: I love Josh Rosen, and I hope I get to play with him at the next level."

 

Quessenberry praised Rosen's "up everybody's behind" leadership. "He's tough as nails," according to Quessenberry, who described one play when a bloodied-up Rosen ran for a two-point conversion after nearly getting his helmet ripped off on the previous play.

 

Quessenberry doesn't know where the "bad teammate" story is coming from, though he suspects that some observers may have decided that Rosen was too "boisterous" or "opinionated."

This is the time of year when quarterbacks are psychoanalyzed by the rumor mill. And yes, most rumors start with some kernel of truth. Rosen probably rubs some teammates and coaches the wrong way. So does Tom Brady.

 

This "universally hated" gossip has taken a life of its own and is now getting passed fifth-hand from "insider" to "insider." And it's silly. No quarterback can function if he is that much of a pariah.

 

 

Ooo look more bad stuff about his attitude. And coach ability wait NOT more good

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/texas-am/Article/UCLA-teammates-and-coaches-rally-around-QB-Josh-Rosen-106605527/Amp

 

another reporter putting his name to exposing the lies of his attitude

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/ucla/Article/The-False-Narrative-on-UCLA-Quarterback-Josh-Rosen-112741479/Amp

 

last one more teammates and all good. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-time-to-bury-josh-rosen-character-slander-once-and-for-all/amp/

 

 

so where are these mythical teamates that dislike him again????

Edited March 13, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Turk71]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Find me ONE teammate just one That says ANYTHING bad about him. 

 

I will wait 

I don't know any of them, just know that this is not something new. Just because they didn't like him doesn't mean they would trash him at such a crucial moment, but that doesn't mean his personality won't be a problem either.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

He is a train wreck, I 'm not sure why people are all over him.

 

His combine was a huge awakening for a lot of media and scouts.  I was listening to the Simms and Lefkoe podcast today and they were destroying him.  They didn't understand how a QB go 1 for 6 on out routes in shorts.

I've said since January Rosen has many issues. I've seen every snap he's made and he is injury prone. But the biggest red flag for Josh and what will ultimately take him down will be his personality. Mora protected him from the media over and over again. There's a reason his passion for football is in question. The choice for the Bills should be either Darnold or Mayfield. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

I don't know any of them, just know that this is not something new. Just because they didn't like him doesn't mean they would trash him at such a crucial moment, but that doesn't mean his personality won't be a problem either.

 

People all want to say that with absolutely zero proof. 

 

People get upset because he has an opinion. Oooo no

Edited March 13, 2018 by MAJBobby