Reasons why we shouldn’t trade off our draft picks.

[Tipster19]

1. First off the QB position isn’t our only need. There’s several positions that are either aged or totally lacking of top caliber talent. Plus the cost of moving up in the draft would not only gut this year’s picks but would more than likely tap into some of next year’s as well.

 

2. How many times has it been stated that the best way to build a roster is through the draft. A team can’t do it without and/or minimal picks.

 

3. It appears that we are plugging holes with FAs, especially with prove it type contracts.  Here’s the thing though, don’t lose sight that these will become holes to fill in the near future (2019?). That is why it’s important to retain our current top draft picks and use them on up and coming players with cap friendly contracts. The holes that Beane is filling today are holes that going to be filled tomorrow so to speak. Don’t be surprised that these are going to be the same positions that we draft for. We need better contracts with younger players and this is how you do it.

 

4. I would like to see us to keep on following this blueprint of plug and play veterans that give us roster depth for the time being until we can get through these next 2 years (2018 and 2019). Furthermore I think that the Bills should use this philosophy also in securing a QB (Keenum?) that replaces Tyrod. 

 

5. To elaborate more on the contract mindset just look at our DT position as an example. I’m paraphrasing here so bear with me, my numbers may not be completely accurate but this is really more about making a point. An aging Kyle Williams is still up in the air and we have 1, possibly 2 unproven DTs on the current roster. If I’m not mistaken Ndamukong Suh is going to count something like 26M towards Miami’s cap. The Rams’ Aaron Donald is up for a new contract, hence the Rams trading off some of their top defensive players (Alec Ogletree and Robert Quinn). They are prioritizing, creating cap space for re-signing and retaining some of their current players at other positions, Donald, Watkins etc etc. The Bills can’t afford contracts like Suh’s and soon to be re-signed Donald’s. Some of the reason for Dareus being traded was due to his absorbent contract, it was way out of whack.

 

In closing I want to point out one last thing. Beane inherited the current affairs, he didn’t create it. It’s going to take some time to turn things around and balance not only the caliber of player but also the caliber of their contracts. It’s a business and our books are in somewhat of a shamble. We haven’t had a real GM in God knows how long, it seems like it has been run by a committee for almost as long as I can remember. Now I don’t know how good of a GM Beane is or if he’s the right guy but at least this administration/front office is finally getting structured the proper way.

 

With all this being said I can hardly wait to see what the Bills are going to do in free agency and the upcoming daft!

 

Go Bills!

[Thurman#1]

Trading up for a QB ... IS building through the draft.

 

People want to pretend it's not. It is. It's the best way to build through the draft, provided you get the right guy, of course.

 

The bottom line is that it's this simple. If you don't have a franchise QB, getting one is your number one priority. Same with about 17 other clubs at any given time. So if you have a chance to get one, you take it.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurman#1

[NastyNateSoldiers]

So overpaying a 30yr old RB on his last legs is a sign in the right direction? I think this front office has a good feel for defensive talent but so far on the offensive side of the ball they have showed that there offensive acumen is lacking at best.

 

From putting Tyrod in the wrong offense to stripping him away of proper weapons and the worst thing putting Tolbert at #2 bk when in his prime he wasn't even thought of as a #2 back i mean it took him 11yrs to be a #2 back, smh. Last but not least passing on Mahomes and Watson was a humongous mistake that we can possibly dreading for yrs to come. Oh yea plus trading up Lame Jones when there was way better Wrs later in the draft.  These moves on the offensive side of the ball have proven to be futile at best. 

[#34fan]

There's no one at the top that's worth trading up for, point blank.

 

We've got back to back moderately high picks with reasonable expectation that there will be guys there worth taking.

 

Oh, You want a QB???  -Tough s__t.

 

As of right now, we don't have an offensive staff capable of developing a rookie QB... Leslie Frazier, and Sean McDermott are both experienced D-coordinators.

 

I'd rather give them  D. Payne and R. Evans, and see what they make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, #34fan said:

There's no one at the top that's worth trading up for, point blank.

 

We've got back to back moderately high picks with reasonable expectation that there will be guys there worth taking.

 

Oh, You want a QB???  -Tough s__t.

 

As of right now, we don't have an offensive staff capable of developing a rookie QB... Leslie Frazier, and Sean McDermott are both experienced D-coordinators.

 

I'd rather give them  D. Payne and R. Evans, and see what they make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would be rather amazing but they would really need to sign a qb as well.

[artmalibu]

Trust the process

[Bangarang]

Let’s just keep waiting for a QB to fall into our laps.

[Peace Frog]

It all comes down to who Beane wants as QB.  Let's say, for example, his heart is set on Rosen.  You try working a trade with the team that you will most likely need to in order to position yourself to get him, come hell or high water.  So, we need to work a trade with the Giants in order to almost guarantee we get him but the Giants won't budge.  What now?  Do you try to work a trade with the Colts and hope that 1) they make it happen, 2) the Giants don't take Rosen before you, 3) grab the next best QB if Rosen is gone and pretend that is who you wanted all of this time?  

 

I'm not gonna worry about it.  I think our GM & HC will do a good job next month.

[jr1]

the front 7 are horrendous. Bortles averaged 8.8 yards per rush

[H2o]

5 minutes ago, jr1 said:

the front 7 are horrendous. Bortles averaged 8.8 yards per rush

I remember screaming at the TV every time he took off running, " For the love of God, someone hit this mother ****er!!!"

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

There's no one at the top that's worth trading up for, point blank.

 

We've got back to back moderately high picks with reasonable expectation that there will be guys there worth taking.

 

Oh, You want a QB???  -Tough s__t.

 

As of right now, we don't have an offensive staff capable of developing a rookie QB... Leslie Frazier, and Sean McDermott are both experienced D-coordinators.

 

I'd rather give them  D. Payne and R. Evans, and see what they make.

 

 

 

Well, of course Leslie Frazier and McDermott aren't ready to develop a rookie QB. They're on the other side of the ball.

 

Daboll did pretty well in Alabama. I don't know if he and Culley are ready to handle this. But nobody can reasonably say they know for sure they aren't.

 

And I'll tell you, you saying "There's no one at the top that's worth trading up for, point blank," is translated as "I don't like these QBs." We heard on and on last year about how nobody was there who was any good, and that it was a bad year for QBs. Oops. 

 

You don't have facts here, you have an opinion, the opinion of a poster on the internet. (And yeah, me too. Same deal.) But the experts seem to feel there are some guys up there this year who could easily be worth trading up for.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thurman#1

[PaattMaann]

Lots of holes to fill on this roster is 100% correct.

 

However, we also have a glaring hole at the most important position in football. One that, time and time again has proven to be THE deciding factor in whether or not your team is a consistent playoff team. That position is QB. 

 

You get your franchise QB by finishing bad enough to be picking at the top of the draft, or you get lucky and hit on a mid to late round pick. The stats have been posted over and over, the vast majority of pro bowl QBs are first round picks, and usually at the top. Is there a chance he is a bust, oh absolutely, but sitting in QB purgatory gets you to a 20 year drought (so does picking the wrong guy). 

 

We havent been bad enough at the right time to pick our QB high. This year, we have the ammunition to move up and snag our QB, finally. 

 

I trust our FO more than I have in 20 years. However, I am hoping they make that move and jump to the top of the draft. 

[BigBuff423]

I am NOT in favor of trading up either and while not for all the same reasons, the overarching point is the same: this team needs to get younger at most of the positions and they need contracts they can afford over the next few years. That said, two things: 1. 2019 salary cap situation is significantly better than this year's, as I believe someone reported the Bills currently at 90 million under the projected cap for next year and 2. IF, and as I said I'm not in favor of this, but IF the Bills were EVER to move up for a QB, this is the year to do it - there are several high quality QBs and they have 2 same year 1st round Draft picks, not to mention 2 2nd round picks.

 

In virtually any other year, the Bills would need to give up 2 1st and 2 2nds and probably possibly more to get all the way up to the top 5, meaning they would have lost 2 years' worth of the best way to Draft - the 1st two rounds. But with what they have this year, they can give up 2 firsts, 1 2nd this year, and maybe a 2nd next year, and get there with a player like Glenn or Shady (nobody shout at once, it's just an idea) and by doing that, they keep next year's 1st, which is important because they will need that 1st round pick, and they keep one of their 2nds this year, which is important because they're re-shaping the entire roster.

 

I will say, that given the friendly Cap number next year, it might make more sense to push as much of the Draft capital needed to move up to next year, trying to keep as many of the picks as you can for this year, because they will have so much FA money next year they will be able to afford to plug all their holes and then some with the FA money. This year the Draft is truly needed. 

 

And, Beane has said they will be aware of the Comp picks formula, meaning next year they might have an extra 3rd or 4th or 5th to help off-set the picks they give up. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The cottage industry of avoiding QB by all means is ratcheting up again. At this point it's more of a fortune 500 company around here.

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by joesixpack

[ganesh]

If you don't get a Franchise QB, then you are unlikely to win the super bowl...Hostetler and Foley are the exceptions.

[White Linen]

Yeah let's draft a QB when we have less draft capital so it hurts even worse.  

[PaattMaann]

5 minutes ago, ganesh said:

If you don't get a Franchise QB, then you are unlikely to win the super bowl...Hostetler and Foley are the exceptions.

 

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson too...

 

Your point is correct. Every once in a while a non franchise QB leads his team to the super bowl. Great. I don't want to rely on building the perfect team around the QB and getting lucky once in a while. I want that friggin franchise QB that takes your team to the playoffs year after year because he IS a franchise QB (Aaaron Rodgers style). 

 

I am confident McBeane can build a team without having 100 draft picks this year, and minus a high pick next year. Look what they did in ONE YEAR at the helm with this talent void Bills team.

Edited March 8, 2018 by PaattMaann

[mjt328]

What if next year's Quarterback class isn't any good?  Do we just push the decision off until 2020?

 

Drafting a Quarterback high is ALWAYS going to hurt.

 

Either we will be drafting too low and will need to give up a kings ransom to move up... OR we will have to suffer through a terrible season to get into the Top 5.  And no matter what you do, there will always be safer players available.  The QB prospects will always have flaws that make them risky.  There will always be "other holes" on the roster that need to be fixed.

[SouthNYfan]

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

There's no one at the top that's worth trading up for, point blank.

 

We've got back to back moderately high picks with reasonable expectation that there will be guys there worth taking.

 

Oh, You want a QB???  -Tough s__t.

 

As of right now, we don't have an offensive staff capable of developing a rookie QB... Leslie Frazier, and Sean McDermott are both experienced D-coordinators.

 

I'd rather give them  D. Payne and R. Evans, and see what they make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please, tell me more with your crystal ball.

Guess all the NFL scouts are wrong in this case.

[Bill from NYC]

42 minutes ago, jr1 said:

the front 7 are horrendous. Bortles averaged 8.8 yards per rush

Payne from Alabama is very, very tough to run against. He can even penetrate and provide some pass rush.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

12 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Payne from Alabama is very, very tough to run against. He can even penetrate and provide some pass rush.

 

How many DTs have carried their teams on their back to a super bowl?

 

[BillsMafia13]

5 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

So overpaying a 30yr old RB on his last legs is a sign in the right direction? I think this front office has a good feel for defensive talent but so far on the offensive side of the ball they have showed that there offensive acumen is lacking at best.

 

From putting Tyrod in the wrong offense to stripping him away of proper weapons and the worst thing putting Tolbert at #2 bk when in his prime he wasn't even thought of as a #2 back i mean it took him 11yrs to be a #2 back, smh. Last but not least passing on Mahomes and Watson was a humongous mistake that we can possibly dreading for yrs to come. Oh yea plus trading up Lame Jones when there was way better Wrs later in the draft.  These moves on the offensive side of the ball have proven to be futile at best. 

So with that glowing take on the front offices building abilities, you trust them to mortgage essentially our entire future in 5 +/- draft picks and put it all on the shoulders of a college kid? Good qbs can be found outside of the draft

[corta765]

So a few things. In the NFL you basically have two options which is to build a complete team like the Vikings did and hope either a QB falls in your lap or a fringe guy like Keenum fits your system and is gold. The other option is to try and find an elite QB who would set your franchise for 10-15 years. Both can be pathways for success but the complete team thing offer 5-7 years of window at best before free agency and age takes your roster apart whereas while finding a QB is much harder and riskier it offers a far greater and more sustainable path if you can get a solid enough guy. Additionally have a competent coach who can get the most out of his players is another factor. McD took over a squad which truthfull was 6-10 talent wise and made the playoffs (yes they got some luck I know), whereas Rex couldn't take an insanely talented 2015 roster past 8-8. So how much your coach can do for your team also is a factor in how you build it.

 

The Bills have been trying the team thing for quite a while and you've seen the results from it. Now I think McD would be able to maximize the roster far better then previous coaches have and I wouldn't be surprised if their model mimics what the Vikings have done. At the same token the Bills have drafted exactly 3 QBs in the first 3 rounds over the last 2 decades (JP, Trent, & EJ) and never have tried a move to grab a QB up top and in general really have been trigger shy at that position.

 

Before the season but after the trades I would've said build the roster and use every pick you can to go the Minnesota way. But after the season my mind has changed completely. McD proved for the most part he can manage a C- talented defense and make them decently functional plus even if we move up he still can add players in FA & the draft that are too his liking so he will have more talent. With that this draft presents one of the few times you may be able to get as high as 2-3-4th overall pick because the teams there have QBs. Philadelphia made a massive gamble going for Wentz but it paid off in roses this season. Even if they would've lost in the divisional round the season still would've been a success for them and the Wentz trade would still look great. At some point you have to pull the trigger and this year Buffalo could do that while still having picks both in this years draft and 2019 which typically isn't the case.

 

After last season I believe enough in McD that if the Bills go for their guy he will be able to manage the defense well despite maybe not getting as many players in and the team can be competitive. If they move up and the QB is a success your talking about one heck of a team. If it fails McD showed he can manage with average to below average QB play and survive. I understand your thoughts on why not to move up and if they don't I wouldn't necessarily be upset more just disappointed to not take a potential chance this year.

Edited March 8, 2018 by corta765

[Bill from NYC]

38 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

How many DTs have carried their teams on their back to a super bowl?

 

Not so many. The Bills do obviously need to address the qb position. They should have done so time and time again. I was under the impression that this was a given.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Let’s just keep waiting for a QB to fall into our laps.

 

 

Heh heh. Seen this before?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

So with that glowing take on the front offices building abilities, you trust them to mortgage essentially our entire future in 5 +/- draft picks and put it all on the shoulders of a college kid? Good qbs can be found outside of the draft

I never said i trust these guys just yet . 

[MAJBobby]

GO GET THE QB

[xRUSHx]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Trading up for a QB ... IS building through the draft.

 

People want to pretend it's not. It is. It's the best way to build through the draft, provided you get the right guy, of course.

 

The bottom line is that it's this simple. If you don't have a franchise QB, getting one is your number one priority. Same with about 17 other clubs at any given time. So if you have a chance to get one, you take it.

Exactly,

A good run team needs to build around a solid QB first without one it just doesn't matter. Do what you have to do to get one this year.

 

It should have been done last year but I am ok with how they built up this draft capital to get ammo to get it done this year. 

 

IMO use the draft capital this year for the QB and continue to clean up the roster with a FA or two while dumping a few others, use this year to clean and get that QB. Next year draft the BPA and fill in with top FAs because of all the money available after the cleaning.

 

I am all in on this staff if they put QB at top of list to get otherwise this staff looks no different then years past waiting for a franchise worthy QB to fall from the sky while using other teams backups as a starting QB. You go draft a better QB or you get fired, it's that simple in this QB driven league IMO.

 

A QB will make or break a staff. Tyrod has broke every OC he had while getting a full staff fired as well.

Edited March 8, 2018 by xRUSHx

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

What if next year's Quarterback class isn't any good?  Do we just push the decision off until 2020?

 

Drafting a Quarterback high is ALWAYS going to hurt.

 

Either we will be drafting too low and will need to give up a kings ransom to move up... OR we will have to suffer through a terrible season to get into the Top 5.  And no matter what you do, there will always be safer players available.  The QB prospects will always have flaws that make them risky.  There will always be "other holes" on the roster that need to be fixed.

 

Excellent points here. Yeah, there will always be holes on a roster that could be improved. Roster turnover being what it is, you've got to continue finding starting talent every year. And most of the time picking the safer to project positions isn't drastically improving the team's W-L record.

 

Yet, the fastest way to consistently winning 10+ games a year is still finding your QB. Middling around drafting other positions when you've got a glaring issue at QB isn't going to transform this team into a 1 or 2 seed in the AFC. 

 

Going deep into the playoffs is the goal. And now you've got your perennial top AFC teams seeing their elite QBs getting older. NE isn't going to feature Brady forever. Roethlisberger has hinted at retirement in the next few years. Rivers is 37 this year. Where the AFC was strong 5 years ago, it's not so much now. 

 

The time to go for it is now if they deem one of the top prospects is their guy.

Edited March 8, 2018 by BillsVet

[17 Josh Allen]

You can not be serious, we traded out of 10 last year so we could be in position to have draft capital to get a QB in this draft class. I guess the Bills were not sold on Mahomes and Watson. You could draft Similar players like a Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, Cornelus Bennett, Shane Conlan, Leonard Smith and a Will Wolford In this draft. If you did all that you would still be no where or further a head.  you could have a all- star team at every position and it would not matter. Until this team get serious and drafts a Franchise QB nothing else matters. You live and die by how good your QB play is. If you put Tom Brady on the Browns they would make the playoffs. Do you know how many games the Browns lost last year by 7 points or less. Look at the teams that made the play offs last year. Do you see something that is different then the non play off teams. I see teams with good QB's or Good Qb play. So lets stop pretending and lets get in the game and get a real QB. 

[HiddenInLight]

One reason that makes all of those reasons pointless.  The bills have been the worst passing offense by yards for the past 15 years.  In that same stretch, only 3 teams have scored less passing touchdowns then the Bills.  Get the QB while you can and THEN worry about filling holes.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BillsMafia13 said:

As others have stated, lack of DTs allowed Blake the great to rush for 90 yards and beat us.  So it could stop us from making the superbowl

 

Perhaps if our garbo QB had been able to accumulate more than 150 yards and ZERO TD, that wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Lousy take. Try harder.

 

[17 Josh Allen]

Please Steelers would have killed us, If we some how got past them, we would have lost by at least 20 to the Pats in The AFC championship game. Put Brady on The Bills and we would have gone to the Superbowl. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

47 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not so many. The Bills do obviously need to address the qb position. They should have done so time and time again. I was under the impression that this was a given.

 

Apparently not, given some of these utterly ridiculous threads.

 

[Victory Formation]

Another thing is, this draft is really rich at positions of need. We could probably add 3-4 key pieces to our front seven if we play our cards correctly.

35 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

You can not be serious, we traded out of 10 last year so we could be in position to have draft capital to get a QB in this draft class. I guess the Bills were not sold on Mahomes and Watson. You could draft Similar players like a Andre Reed, Bruce Smith, Cornelus Bennett, Shane Conlan, Leonard Smith and a Will Wolford In this draft. If you did all that you would still be no where or further a head.  you could have a all- star team at every position and it would not matter. Until this team get serious and drafts a Franchise QB nothing else matters. You live and die by how good your QB play is. If you put Tom Brady on the Browns they would make the playoffs. Do you know how many games the Browns lost last year by 7 points or less. Look at the teams that made the play offs last year. Do you see something that is different then the non play off teams. I see teams with good QB's or Good Qb play. So lets stop pretending and lets get in the game and get a real QB. 

I think a good QB will be there when we pick or within striking distance without having to give up too much. It's possible we get our QB and rebuild our front seven entirely.

[BillsMafia13]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

Perhaps if our garbo QB had been able to accumulate more than 150 yards and ZERO TD, that wouldn't have been an issue.

 

Lousy take. Try harder.

 

I was just playing devils advocate and countering your lousy redundant take.  Not really a news flash qb is more important than DL, but saying " we need a qb more so lets do that" is as productive as saying crime is bad.  Thanks for breaking news Cronkite 

[ndirish1978]

The fear is real

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

I was just playing devils advocate and countering your lousy redundant take.  Not really a news flash qb is more important than DL, but saying " we need a qb more so lets do that" is as productive as saying crime is bad.  Thanks for breaking news Cronkite 

 

My take is the correct take, whether you agree with it or not. Next year's QB class is HOT GARBAGE. Look into it. There can be no more excuses or delay.

 

[BillsMafia13]

28 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

My take is the correct take, whether you agree with it or not. Next year's QB class is HOT GARBAGE. Look into it. There can be no more excuses or delay.

 

Haha your opinion is the correct opinion?  Ill just pack my bags now sorry. Btw you dont need to draft a qb to find a starter, we could pay for one in FA and still get 4 rookie starters on rookie contracts if they play their cards right.  Your dream qb could still bust out leaving us dead in the water for another 3 years, but that could never happen because your'e never wrong.  Im surprised with 34,000 posts NFL owners dont have you on speed dial for advice

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

 Ill just pack my bags now sorry.

 

Good. It'd be an improvement.