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Brandon Beane on Lamar Jackson...


PIZ

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1 hour ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

Wow, I didn't know he was victim to 38 drops. I'll admit I don't follow college players much, but are the accuracy concerns he get nothing but hot takes from box score experts, or...? 

 

Jackson?  Yeah, in contrast to what's said about all Allen's drops, he had one of the lower drop percents among the "top QB candidates".  As I recall, Jackson is highest with 12% (38) and Rosen second with 11% (31)

1 hour ago, arcane said:

I've watched him a few times and his touch/placement is not there. Even in the highlight clips his open-by-an-acre receivers are adjusting and slowing and veering to get under his throws. I've seen them downright halt in their routes before. It's bad and since accuracy can't be taught, I stay far away from Lamar (and Allen). 

 

When you say "you've watched him", do you mean you've been to live games?

Because I've been watching quite a bit of game film and scouting (not highlight clips) and I don't see this at all.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

John Murphy: Bills at their own 30 yard line.  Lamar Jackson in the shotgun (because that's all he knows) with 3 receivers split wide.  Here's the snap.  Pressure coming right away up the middle! Lamar Jackson rolls out, he's going to take off! Jackson is at the 35, the 40, looking to get out of bounds and OH! Lamar Jackson got hit low by the safety and he is down and clutching at his knee.  This is not looking good for the 21st overall pick right now.

 

Tell the truth: you haven't actually watched much film of his play this year, have you?

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15 minutes ago, offyourocker said:

That is what I want in a QB.  A guy that wants to win so badly.  Accurate.  I think his size will be a factor at times but not enough to impeed his success

I hope his lack of stature drops him to a point where we can get him without trading away our draft for him.  But if we have to drop our two firsts and a bit more, I really really think he's worth it.  We'll rue the draft day we don't make a move for him;  I really believe that.

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I think Beane is being a good GM and doing his diligence in everyone.

 

That being said, stop comparing people to Watson who, might I remind you, played all of what, 6 games?  I think Watson has a bright future and is ahead of Jackson but I think the sample size is too small to say Watson has made it yet.  Promising, yes.

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44 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

That certainly weighs into any evaluation, but if you take into account drops by Jackson's receivers, you also have to look at the number of drops by receivers of QBs in the draft who had a better completion percentage than Jackson.  Essentially, whenever you do comparisons, you want to be sure it's apples to apples.

This has been done in other threads. Jackson has more drops than the others so he compares more favorably. I believe Darnold and Allen were not looking good after that analysis. 

 

On the Kap versus Jackson debate. Kap came out of Nevada. WAC is nothing close to the ACC. Also he played 4 years. His per year stats are not as good compared to Lamar and that’s including his senior year that really elevated his line. I will say 34 you are consistent in using off the field items in your analysis but I don’t understand how a business degree equates to success on the field. 

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As time goes on, I warm up more and more to the idea of staying put at 21 and drafting Lamar Jackson. If the Bills aren't going to trade up to the top 5 for a Rosen or a Mayfield, then I hope they take Jackson.

Daboll can design an offense that will fit both Tyrod and Jackson's skillset. Tyrod -- who is already under contract for a reasonable amount and is a leader in the locker room and can get you to the playoffs -- starts until Jackson is good enough to take the job from him. 

Yes, I realize the worst case scenario with Jackson is that he's a total bust and can't play quarterback in the NFL. But heck, that's the risk with ALL these guys, and they don't have even half of Jackson's pure athletic ability and upside.

If you're not going all out for a top 3 QB, stay put and take Jackson.

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1 hour ago, TtownBillsFan said:

Ditto.  I want Baker badly, but I'm a Sooners fan, so probably alot of homerism on my part.  But I saw every game Baker played for OU, ever snap, and there's not a bigger competitor, at any position, on any team, in college football.  AND, Baker is crazy accurate, and crazy-good in making something out of nothing!

 

I started out being skeptical and came away convinced.  My first choice is Rosen but I would be pleased to land Baker.

 

12 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

There was nothing in that article that made me think Wow Beane really likes Lamar Jackson as a possibility 

 

Is there anything in anything Beane says that makes you feel "wow Beane really likes (.......) as a possibility"?

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
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An additional article with quotes from McDermott:

 

https://articles.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/02/what_buffalo_bills_brandon_beane_sean_mcdermott_said_about_lamar_jackson.amp?__twitter_impression=true

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

 

"Well I've been around kind of those style of quarterbacks. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton, Tyrod Taylor," McDermott said. "I'm familiar with what comes with those style of quarterback, both the positives and some of the drawbacks of that style probably more than most coaches in this case. I'm in a pretty good position in terms of the familiarity with that."

At this point, it's safe to say the Bills view Jackson as a quarterback. As they should.

"At the end of the day, this guy has played the position and played it at a high level in college," McDermott said.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Earning the right to try QB before he switches positions isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.  I guess you could say that about JT Barrett too.  

JT Barrett is not on the same hemisphere as Lamar Jackson.. I don't know if Jackson will pan out but Barrett could only dream of having Jackson's talent.

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1 hour ago, Juror#8 said:

He's a black qb. He is a cross between Jamarcus Russell and Antwaan Randle El until he categorically  proves otherwise. 

 

Peace. 

 

 

It's so ridiculous.  I especially loved the bit about EJ and TT having the same "style" as Jackson.  Wouldn't they have to have the same style as each other first?  And let's not pick up a free agent "running" QB like Bridgewater either.

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1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

You know how many BUSTS own a heisman?

 

Sh_t, they gave Manziel a Heisman... Doesn't mean jack squat...

 

Kaepernick passed for more yards  with a higher comp %

 

Kaepernick threw way more touchdowns.

 

Kaepernicck rushed for more touchdowns,

 

Kaepernick GRADUATED with a degree in business management

 

And,  this was all after being drafted by the Cubs as a pitching prospect!

 

Pretty ridiculous and reprehensible if you ask me.. :lol:

 

 

 

Nevada played who ? I saw him play. He was very good against very weak competition and ran the pistol offense. Jackson was better in college than Kaep. But using CAPS about his graduating ALMOST swayed me.... not to mention his ability to play MINOR league baseball which is a VERY PERSUASIVE argument in comparing their college FOOTBALL careers

Edited by MOVALLEYRANDY
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17 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

It's so ridiculous.  I especially loved the bit about EJ and TT having the same "style" as Jackson.  Wouldn't they have to have the same style as each other first?  And let's not pick up a free agent "running" QB like Bridgewater either.

 

Did I miss something?  Where were EJ and TT compared to Jackson?

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2 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

I question his judgement with him using his MOTHER to rep him and not an agent. It is utterly stupid to choose penny-pinching on a rookie slotted contract at the cost of draft position. If he had an agent there would have been a stronger response to all this WR conversion talk. I don't think this guy is surrounded by the right people.  

 

Seriously?  Unless his mother is an attorney or something, that actually is a red flag.

 

Is he going to use TurboTax after he gets signing bonus too?

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5 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

 

Nevada played who ? I saw him play. He was very good against very weak competition and ran the pistol offense. Jackson was better in college than Kaep. But using CAPS about his graduating ALMOST swayed me.... not to mention his ability to play MINOR league baseball which is a VERY PERSUASIVE argument in comparing their college FOOTBALL careers

 

You burglarized a conversation but got stuck in the chimney.

 

Here's what I said Re: Jackson

 

8 hours ago, #34fan said:

He's not even 1/2 of what Kaepernick was coming into the draft, and I consider them very similar stylewise...

 

I was being general on purpose, and I wasn't alone because:

 

7 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Oh please he’s done way more than kap did. 

 

Which, even generally speaking, is total bullsh_t...

 

Anyway, that's when I pointed out:

 

7 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

Kaepernick passed for more yards  with a higher comp %

 

Kaepernick threw way more touchdowns.

 

Kaepernick rushed for more touchdowns,

 

Kaepernick GRADUATED with a degree in business management

 

And,  this was all after being drafted by the Cubs as a pitching prospect!

 

 

Kaep also threw less INT's than Jackson did in college, but the point was made... Cumulatively, Kaepernick accomplished way more than Jackson leading up to the draft.

 

To your other point:

 

5 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

 

Nevada played who ? I saw him play. He was very good against very weak competition and ran the pistol offense. Jackson was better in college than Kaep.

 

:blink:The real question is, "who played for Nevada"?

 

Besides Kaepernick, Virgil Green, and Rishard Matthews, Nevada had BUPKIS for talent on that roster.  Yet in 2011, they managed to supplant a juggernaut in Boise State, -embarrass a Pac 12 mainstay in Cal, and out-duel a Boston College defense that featured Mark Herzlich, and future 1st rounder Luke Kuechley...

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

Watsons wrs were very talented

 

and yet still dropped a lot of balls.  Watson was high on the "hurt by drops" lists this time last year.  

 

7 hours ago, H2o said:

Watson is miles ahead of Jackson as a passer if you have actually watched the two play 

 

Agreed. I don't hate Jackson as a prospect at all.  But frankly I don't think he is close to where Deshaun Watson was coming out.  

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A few things.  There is literally no comparison between Cam Newton and Lamar Jackson.  Cam still has the same issues he had in college but he is so physically imposing he can make up for it.  Jackson cant.  

 

Secondly, there is no comparison between Jackson and Deshaun Watson.  Watson was a high completion, high winning percentage quarterback who was already showing great touch on NFL throws.  Jackson again is not that.  

 

If you actually watch the games, throw by throw, Jackson misses high a ton, makes bad decisons and has happy feet.  He is amazingly athletic with a huge arm, but he is closer to Vince Young than Cam Newton.  He seems like an intelligent young man so maybe he has a better chance than rock for brains.  If he is the choice fine, but stop putting him in the conversation with Rosen and Mayfield.  

 

Also for anyone making this about race, stop its ignorant and proliferates a terrible message.

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9 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

John Murphy: Bills at their own 30 yard line.  Lamar Jackson in the shotgun (because that's all he knows) with 3 receivers split wide.  Here's the snap.  Pressure coming right away up the middle! Lamar Jackson rolls out, he's going to take off! Jackson is at the 35, the 40, looking to get out of bounds and OH! Lamar Jackson got hit low by the safety and he is down and clutching at his knee.  This is not looking good for the 21st overall pick right now.

Cool story

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1 hour ago, #34fan said:

 

You burglarized a conversation but got stuck in the chimney.

 

Here's what I said Re: Jackson

 

 

I was being general on purpose, and I wasn't alone because:

 

 

Which, even generally speaking, is total bullsh_t...

 

Anyway, that's when I pointed out:

 

 

Kaep also threw less INT's than Jackson did in college, but the point was made... Cumulatively, Kaepernick accomplished way more than Jackson leading up to the draft.

 

To your other point:

 

 

:blink:The real question is, "who played for Nevada"?

 

Besides Kaepernick, Virgil Green, and Rishard Matthews, Nevada had BUPKIS for talent on that roster.  Yet in 2011, they managed to supplant a juggernaut in Boise State, -embarrass a Pac 12 mainstay in Cal, and out-duel a Boston College defense that featured Mark Herzlich, and future 1st rounder Luke Kuechley...

 

 

 

Point to one season kap had better than Jackson.  Jackson’s final two seasons were better than kaps best season 

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8 hours ago, KD in CA said:

Seriously?  Unless his mother is an attorney or something, that actually is a red flag.

 

It's probably not a decision in his best interest, but I'm not sure it's a red flag.  Say more?

 

My understanding is that rookie salaries these days are pretty well cut and dried by draft position.   It's not like he's a FA depending on an agent to navigate between teams and talk his price up. 

 

I expect this is a matter of trust.  They can easily hire an attorney to review the actual contract. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

QB's like Jackson, Rudolph and Allen are day 2 picks IMO...

 

In terms of talent relative to the rest of the field, sure but QB are overvalued.  It's like buying a house near San Francisco, expect to pay $1.5M for a house that would be $300k in Buffalo or Missouri.

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39 minutes ago, elltrain22 said:

I am quite confident, that if we really like LJ, and our plan is to wait @21 to take him, he will be gone. I don't see him falling to us, and I think its very possible he goes top 10. 

 

I don't think Jackson will go top 10.  But I could be wrong.

 

Browns - QB

Giants - Barkley or other position.  May  be willing to trade, but likely want to stay top-10

Colts - if Luck seems healthy, other position.  Else, QB

Browns - other position

Broncos - QB unless FA (one of Broncos or Jets likely to go FA)

Jets - QB unless FA (one of Broncos or Jets likely to go FA)

Bucs - other position

49ers - other position

Raiders - other position

Pick #11 - Dolphins - maybe QB or possibly willing to trade

Pick #12 - Bengals

 

We need a QB, so we think that every team that could possibly use a QB will be grabbing one, and every other team will be trading up, and every team who doessn't want a QB in the top 10 will be eager to trade down instead of grabbing the top talent available at other positions.

 

It could happen, but in general, it doesn't.  Draft pundits value QB differently than GMs, and GMs who like a QB aren't necessarily interested in spending their top pick on one.

 

I think we see 3 QB, possibly 4 if the GMs buy the Allen Hype, drafted in the top 10.  But again, I'm just going off history with the draft and I could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

Point to one season kap had better than Jackson.  Jackson’s final two seasons were better than kaps best season 

 

Why are people arguing with this dude?  It seems pretty clear facts are no matter.

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Jackson will go top 10.  But I could be wrong.

 

Browns - QB

Giants - Barkley or other position.  May  be willing to trade, but likely want to stay top-10

Colts - if Luck seems healthy, other position.  Else, QB

Browns - other position

Broncos - QB unless FA (one of Broncos or Jets likely to go FA)

Jets - QB unless FA (one of Broncos or Jets likely to go FA)

Bucs - other position

49ers - other position

Raiders - other position

Pick #11 - Dolphins - maybe QB or possibly willing to trade

Pick #12 - Bengals

 

We need a QB, so we think that every team that could possibly use a QB will be grabbing one, and every other team will be trading up, and every team who doessn't want a QB in the top 10 will be eager to trade down instead of grabbing the top talent available at other positions.

 

It could happen, but in general, it doesn't.  Draft pundits value QB differently than GMs, and GMs who like a QB aren't necessarily interested in spending their top pick on one.

 

I think we see 3 QB, possibly 4 if the GMs buy the Allen Hype, drafted in the top 10.  But again, I'm just going off history with the draft and I could be wrong.

 

 

Why are people arguing with this dude?  It seems pretty clear facts are no matter.

 

true

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I think there is a good chance LJ winds up in Arizona if he doesn't come off the board before. My ranking of the QB prospects in this class=

 

1) Josh Rosen

2) Lamar Jackson

3)Baker/Sam (flip a coin)

4) Josh Allen.

 

They are all first round worthy, and that's where I think they go. 

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4 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I think there is a good chance LJ winds up in Arizona if he doesn't come off the board before. My ranking of the QB prospects in this class=

 

1) Josh Rosen

2) Lamar Jackson

3)Baker/Sam (flip a coin)

4) Josh Allen.

 

They are all first round worthy, and that's where I think they go. 

How does Lamar Jackson compare to, say, Ryan Mallett when he declared?

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11 hours ago, #34fan said:

When I think of Lamar Jackson, I think of a shiny bronze bust in the bust HOF... He's not even 1/2 of what Kaepernick was coming into the draft, and I consider them very similar stylewise... STAY AWAY unless he's there in the 2nd...

 

LOL...not half what Kap was?  Are you kidding?  Didn't realize Kap won the Heisman, was one of the best players in all of college football his whole time there, and a projected first round pick.  

 

Most people didn't even know who Kap was until they saw his name in mock drafts in the 2nd and 3rd round.  And I was actually one who really wanted us to draft Kap in the 2nd.

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

How does Lamar Jackson compare to, say, Ryan Mallett when he declared?

 

Uh...they dont...Talk about the exact polar opposites of QB prospects.  Mallet was a giant stone statue which a cocaine problem.  Lamar is an electric dual threat kid and just as good off the field as on.  

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It's smokescreen season, but Beane has repeatedly said that he wants a quarterback who can win games from within the pocket. I like Jackson, I think Mayfield is interesting, I do not think the Bills will draft either. I think their board is Rosen, Darnold, Allen, or punt on this class.  

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2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

It's smokescreen season, but Beane has repeatedly said that he wants a quarterback who can win games from within the pocket. I like Jackson, I think Mayfield is interesting, I do not think the Bills will draft either. I think their board is Rosen, Darnold, Allen, or punt on this class.  

 

I think they might have some interest in Rudolph too if they do end up unable to move up.  They have certainly watched him plenty.  

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9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

About 75% down page one of this thread.  

 

So I think that person's point may have been watching them run and be injured, and perhaps (certainly in EJ's case) having their knees targeted. 

But of course a QB who is looking to throw loses a lot of his protections as soon as he rolls out of the pocket, and in the past our QB have been heavily criticized if they slid short of the 1st down (Orton)

 

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

If you actually watch the games, throw by throw, Jackson misses high a ton, makes bad decisons and has happy feet.  He is amazingly athletic with a huge arm, but he is closer to Vince Young than Cam Newton.  He seems like an intelligent young man so maybe he has a better chance than rock for brains.  If he is the choice fine, but stop putting him in the conversation with Rosen and Mayfield.  

 

Also for anyone making this about race, stop its ignorant and proliferates a terrible message.

 

I have watched several games from this past season (2017) and I don't see "a ton" of misses high, or happy feet.  To the contrary.  He does make some bad decisions, but so do all QB. 

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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they might have some interest in Rudolph too if they do end up unable to move up.  They have certainly watched him plenty.  

 

I think it's possible. I feel like his small hands and lack of arm strength will turn them off, but I could be completely wrong. How he does on the board with offensive concepts is going to be critical for him. I don't think he is much better than Nate Peterman honestly. Similar arm strength, Rudolph has better size, Nate has bigger hands, Nate had experience in a pro style offense coming in. I don't think Rudolph move s the needle the way the top five guys would, and would therefore be a wasted pick. In the fourth round its fine. 

 

I count the top five as Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield and Jackson. I think there is a huge drop off after them. And I don't think the Bills will be in on Mayfield or Jackson. All just my opinions. 

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12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Box score experts are abundant here, so are lazy comparisons to TT just because they can both run.

 

Lamar is a better passer than most give him credit for.  He is quite intriguing and would be STOKED if we got him.  The two QB's I want the most are Baker and Lamar.  Baker if we trade up, and Lamar if we stay put (unless Baker falls somehow to 21 then I would take Baker first).  

 

I agree.  I have Rosen, Mayfield, then Jackson.  We get one of those three I'm pumped.  I'd also trade TT and try to get one of the vet rentals out there (Keenum or Bradford) 

9 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Seriously?  Unless his mother is an attorney or something, that actually is a red flag.

 

Is he going to use TurboTax after he gets signing bonus too?

 

na, he wants to fall to the Bills.  Think optimistically.  

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11 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

John Murphy: Bills at their own 30 yard line.  Lamar Jackson in the shotgun (because that's all he knows) with 3 receivers split wide.  Here's the snap.  Pressure coming right away up the middle! Lamar Jackson rolls out, he's going to take off! Jackson is at the 35, the 40, looking to get out of bounds and OH! Lamar Jackson got hit low by the safety and he is down and clutching at his knee.  This is not looking good for the 21st overall pick right now.

Looks Tyrod Taylor is warming up on the sidelines. Bills look like they'll be calling on the veteran as Jackson is being escorted to the locker room. 

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