Should Al Riveron be investigated?

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Everyone saying we would have lost anyways doesn't understand how important momentum is during a game. To have multiple bad calls stop our momentum and bad calls continue their momentum could have been a multiple td swing. The game could of at least been allot closer at the end. To have a td overturned and all the phantom holding calls and pass interference calls all going against us was enough to kill our spirit and as soon as we were defeated the Patriots saw weakness and stepped on the gas.

Edited December 27, 2017 by buffalobloodfloridahome

[westerndecline]

12 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

You guys know that the owners split the revenue evenly, right?

 

So if the "NFL" is doing good, ALL the owners are sharing in that. The NFL is a multi billion dollar business. Do you think they totally leave the outcomes to chance?? Hell no. They want their superstars in the spotlight as often as possible and will massage outcomes wherever necessary to insure maximum viewership and entertainment.

 

You love Brady or you (more likely) hate him, but either way your tuning in and praying he loses terribly.

 

Just like any entertainment league (NBA, NHL, NFL etc) the super stars are taken care of and the dynastys get all the breaks.

 

A Jets fan actually sued the NFL over this. His case was that he bought a ticket to a sporting event and intended to watch a fair contest.

 

Went all the way through the courts and the NFL argued that in fact it's entertainment, not sports, And his ticket only guaranteed him entrance to the stadium for entertainment purposes, not a fair contest. NFL even argued they could decide the outcomes if they wanted too.

 

Judge agreed, and dismissed that suit.

 

I mean come on the saints winning a SUPERBOWL after Katrina, the harbaugh bowl... manning getting another ring on his way out the door. The patriots Dynasty.

 

It's clear to me that I'm watching the WWE.

Please dont be true

3 minutes ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Everyone saying we would have lost anyways doesn't understand how important momentum is during a game. To have multiple bad calls stop our momentum and bad calls continue their momentum could have been a multiple td swing. The game could of at least been allot closer at the end. To have a td overturned and all the phantom holding calls and pass interference calls all going against us was enough to kill our spirit and as soon as we were defeated the Patriots saw weakness and stepped on the gas.

The holding call in McCoy ran for 30 yards was completely bizarre the wide receiver was literally just in front of them and didn't even do anything

After that holding call it just kind of sort of hit me like something ain't right here from the s*** is not adding up

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

7 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

The holding call in McCoy ran for 30 yards was completely bizarre the wide receiver was literally just in front of them and didn't even do anything

After that holding call it just kind of sort of hit me like something ain't right here from the s*** is not adding up

It was obvious that the WR thought about holding a Patriot therefore the flag is justified -Riveron

[PatsFanNH]

35 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Please dont be true

The holding call in McCoy ran for 30 yards was completely bizarre the wide receiver was literally just in front of them and didn't even do anything

After that holding call it just kind of sort of hit me like something ain't right here from the s*** is not adding up

The holding call was Ricky tack but it was holding as you saw the shirt tugged. Besides that it made it 1st down and 2 hardly destroyed momentum. 

 

The TD being called back was way to close to have been changed it should have been "the play stands" as there wasn't conclusive evidence one way or the other to overturn or confirm it.

 

a lot of the other complaints are weird, like the PI on the Bills in the end zone. I don't know how that is even debated it was a textbook PI.. never turned around and hit the receiver before the ball got there. 

[westerndecline]

7 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

The holding call was Ricky tack but it was holding as you saw the shirt tugged. Besides that it made it 1st down and 2 hardly destroyed momentum. 

 

The TD being called back was way to close to have been changed it should have been "the play stands" as there wasn't conclusive evidence one way or the other to overturn or confirm it.

 

a lot of the other complaints are weird, like the PI on the Bills in the end zone. I don't know how that is even debated it was a textbook PI.. never turned around and hit the receiver before the ball got there. 

I want to use your love logical brain here I want you to use logic if it was a Ricky Ticky BS holding call then why wasn't the holding call ever call when Hughes was getting mauled

4 years now literally years every time we play the Patriots you guys have like 1 or 2 lbs in the bills have like 10 explain it

[wppete]

Yes

[Kmart128]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He's a minority?

His name is Alberto... Of course he is. I think he is Cuban

[westerndecline]

Honestly f*** it just injure Brady if you face them that's what I would do if I was Buffalo want to play Silly games when I cheat let's play Silly games

Edited December 27, 2017 by westerndecline

[26CornerBlitz]

From Pro Football Talk:

 

Al Riveron has turned instant replay into a mess. When the NFL initially implemented instant replay reviews, the idea was to correct clear officiating mistakes. The idea was that you assumed the call on the field was correct until the replay proved otherwise. The idea was not to look at the play as if you were starting from scratch. But that seems to be what Riveron, the NFL’s fist-year head of officiating, is doing when he reviews replays. How else to explain his decision to overturn a Bills touchdown yesterday? There was not clear and obvious video evidence showing the call on the field was wrong. There was, at best, evidence that the call on the field might have been wrong. But “might” isn’t supposed to cut it. The league needs to spend some time this offseason coming up with a clearer standard for what constitutes enough evidence to overturn the call on the field, because at the moment the man making those decisions doesn’t seem to be clear about that standard. It really says something about the NFL’s rules that jumping into a Salvation Army kettle results in the same penalty as cheap-shotting a defenseless opponent’s brain, yet that’s nowhere near the dumbest rule we’ve all complained about in the last couple weeks.

 

 

 

[dlonce]

44 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

From Pro Football Talk:

 

Al Riveron has turned instant replay into a mess. When the NFL initially implemented instant replay reviews, the idea was to correct clear officiating mistakes. The idea was that you assumed the call on the field was correct until the replay proved otherwise. The idea was not to look at the play as if you were starting from scratch. But that seems to be what Riveron, the NFL’s fist-year head of officiating, is doing when he reviews replays. How else to explain his decision to overturn a Bills touchdown yesterday? There was not clear and obvious video evidence showing the call on the field was wrong. There was, at best, evidence that the call on the field might have been wrong. But “might” isn’t supposed to cut it. The league needs to spend some time this offseason coming up with a clearer standard for what constitutes enough evidence to overturn the call on the field, because at the moment the man making those decisions doesn’t seem to be clear about that standard. It really says something about the NFL’s rules that jumping into a Salvation Army kettle results in the same penalty as cheap-shotting a defenseless opponent’s brain, yet that’s nowhere near the dumbest rule we’ve all complained about in the last couple weeks.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting. No big surprise he wouldn’t throw his buddy under the bus.

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Just saw a "sounds of the game" segment on NFLN and they showed the referees on the field in our game saying they have no idea why the call was overturned. One of the commentators said the "refs" in NY need to start wearing grey instead of black and white because nothing is black and white anymore when they are involved...

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Kmart128 said:

His name is Alberto... Of course he is. I think he is Cuban

 

Hmmm....good pick up.  I had no idea.

 

2 hours ago, westerndecline said:

Honestly f*** it just injure Brady if you face them that's what I would do if I was Buffalo want to play Silly games when I cheat let's play Silly games

 

What part of this post did you edit?

[What a Tuel]

6 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Just saw a "sounds of the game" segment on NFLN and they showed the referees on the field in our game saying they have no idea why the call was overturned. One of the commentators said the "refs" in NY need to start wearing grey instead of black and white because nothing is black and white anymore when they are involved...

 

Link? Edit: NM found it.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by What a Tuel

[Hellcamino]

 

Do we know how many called TDs have been reversed in total this season in the league?

we know of 3 called TDs reversed, and one that wasn't but should have been,  that have all favored the Pats.

just curious

[PatsFanNH]

17 hours ago, westerndecline said:

I want to use your love logical brain here I want you to use logic if it was a Ricky Ticky BS holding call then why wasn't the holding call ever call when Hughes was getting mauled

4 years now literally years every time we play the Patriots you guys have like 1 or 2 lbs in the bills have like 10 explain it

Better coaching, more discipline, and keeping your hands where they are suppose to be as to not get called for holding. So many times you see a guy doing a great blocking job and then after the runner is by him tugging the shirt and getting a holding call.  

 

It it also helps that BB knows the rules better than MOST of these part time officials so I would be lying if I didn't say they are also afraid throw a flag unless it is an obvious penalty.

 

i have LONG said if you want refs be good to great they need be full time refs who know the rule book inside and out and recognize penalties instantly. (As well as knowing what is and isn't a catch.)

 

till we have full full time refs tenured coaches Like BB and Andy Reid etc going get more breaks. Is it fair? Nope, but neither is life so..

[Moose]

36 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Better coaching, more discipline, and keeping your hands where they are suppose to be as to not get called for holding. So many times you see a guy doing a great blocking job and then after the runner is by him tugging the shirt and getting a holding call.  

 

It it also helps that BB knows the rules better than MOST of these part time officials so I would be lying if I didn't say they are also afraid throw a flag unless it is an obvious penalty.

 

i have LONG said if you want refs be good to great they need be full time refs who know the rule book inside and out and recognize penalties instantly. (As well as knowing what is and isn't a catch.)

 

till we have full full time refs tenured coaches Like BB and Andy Reid etc going get more breaks. Is it fair? Nope, but neither is life so..

 

Why are you even here????

[zow2]

I don't really think there's a conspiracy against Buffalo or for New England.  I do think Al Riveron is taking his job way outside of the scope it was intended for, so yes, I think he should be relieved of his duties.

 

Case in point, the Benjamin reversal.  If the ball is in KB's hands and in the process he is switching the ball to his left arm so he can fall on his right, it's still 100% possession in my opinion.  The naked eye in real time you cannot even see the switch.  If the ball is still cradled in the receivers arms and it never leaves his body it should remain as they call it on the field, especially if they "survive the ground".  They are dissecting what i would call a micro-bobble of the ball and that is a bunch of BS.  If the ball bounces off a guys hands and pops up and he doesn't catch it again until his foot is out of bounds, then yeah it's an obvious no-catch.  But these calls, breaking it down frame by frame in super slo mo are ridiculous.  

[Bob in STL]

 

 

The role should be clarified and returned back to the original intent, to correct errors using clear and indisputable video evidence.  In the process Riveron should be replaced.  His credibility will forever be questioned. 

[Manther]

On 2017-12-24 at 7:52 PM, Bakin said:

Why didn’t they even measure for the first down when Dion Lewis did the stretch and they changed the spot??

no measurement????  Just FIRST DOWN!!!

why?  

Because Patriots. 

Pure ridiculous.  

 

Because Patriots is the correct answer!

 

Its the only truly plausible answer.  

 

Otherwise, you can't make sense of it.

 

 

[Dorkington]

On 12/25/2017 at 4:19 PM, Doc said:

 

So I guess there's no need to ever complain about anything.  Just accept it because the person who benefits is just better than you. 

In the case of a football *game*, and the Bills/Pats, yeah I think accepting it is the way to go. The Pats get calls. Just like Lebron James "never" fouls anyone. 

On 12/25/2017 at 4:37 PM, BuffaninATL said:

 

This is a gross oversimplification. When you say "Good teams get calls", it's really only one team coming up over and over again - for the wrong reasons.

 

On 12/26/2017 at 7:11 AM, Dopey said:

This isn't about the call. It's about the reversal of a call without enough evidence. It happened to Pittsburgh and I think they meet the definition of a "good" team. When the"tuck rule" was enforced against the Raiders they were a "good" team. Again, this is about suits in NY giving the pats too many gift calls.

Oversimplification or not, the Patriots are a good team, are a very popular team (because they're good and live in a big market) so it benefits the NFL to give them favorable calls. Whining about it every time we play them does no one any good. You'd think Bills fans would get it by now. 

On 12/26/2017 at 11:47 AM, MDH said:

 

So whenever people encounter injustice in the real world they should just shrug and say, “that’s the way it is.”?

 

That sounds like a great philosophy that would definitely serve mankind well through the ages.

If you consider the Patriots getting favorable calls to be an injustice in the real world, then you haven't lived in the real world. There are people dying and living without basic rights out there, those are injustices. The Patriots getting favorable calls is a predictable annoyance due to capitalism. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Better coaching, more discipline, and keeping your hands where they are suppose to be as to not get called for holding. So many times you see a guy doing a great blocking job and then after the runner is by him tugging the shirt and getting a holding call.  

Seriously? 

Do you watch the Cheaters with open eyes?  

 

Truth of fiction 

 

The Pats won at least 2 games because the Refs blew a call in their favor.  

 

[MDH]

47 minutes ago, Dorkington said:

If you consider the Patriots getting favorable calls to be an injustice in the real world, then you haven't lived in the real world. There are people dying and living without basic rights out there, those are injustices. The Patriots getting favorable calls is a predictable annoyance due to capitalism. 

 

Unless you've discovered some dimension where actions don't have consequences, it's all real world. And just accepting things aren't the way they should be isn't a great philosophy in dealing with any problems one encounters in life, no matter how small. 

[sullim4]

The rumor going around during the offseason last year was that there wasn't anyone who was both palatable to the NFL and who actually wanted this job.  Blandino resigned in April but it was well known at 345 Park that he was headed out.  They promoted Dean during the 2016 offseason to a SVP position to encourage him to stay on with a higher rate of salary, but apparently the NFL execs knew it was a matter of time before he jumped ship to take TV money.

 

Riveron was hired in May but supposedly the NFL was looking around much longer than the time between Dean's resignation and Riveron's hire.  They "settled" for Al.  I would not be surprised to see a mutual parting of ways at the end of the season given the tumult that's transpired.

 

Total speculation, but the leading candidates in my mind for the job would be Bill Vinovich (who has previous experience as a replay official for Hochuli's crew), Bill Carollo (former NFL R and current Big Ten director of officiating), and Walt Anderson (who supervises Big 12 officials in addition to his job as an R in the NFL).

[PatsFanNH]

14 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Seriously? 

Do you watch the Cheaters with open eyes?  

 

Truth of fiction 

 

The Pats won at least 2 games because the Refs blew a call in their favor.  

 

False.  The games you are referencing (the Jets game) was for the tie but was called correctly as it has happened in four other games since then the most recent being Derek Carr fumbling the ball threw the end zone. Just because YOU don't like the rule doesn't make it a bad call, it just makes it a bad rule.

 

The Steelers game is the exact same thing, except with more grey area as some Think James had Fingers under the ball. I disagree but we debated that dead horse in another thread.

 

the Bills game was a terrible call to overturn the TD  but the Bills failed to show up after half time. I do believe I heard the same complaint for the Miami game except then it was only the O who failed show up. Now I know people say that "change momentum" etc etc the fact is a team has come out and play a full 60 minutes and if something like that makes you play THAT poorly well then that's sad!

[T master]

If nothing else the cleaning lady needs to take the bottle of jack Daniels & the Ludes out from under the desk before the next game !!

[westerndecline]

52 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

False.  The games you are referencing (the Jets game) was for the tie but was called correctly as it has happened in four other games since then the most recent being Derek Carr fumbling the ball threw the end zone. Just because YOU don't like the rule doesn't make it a bad call, it just makes it a bad rule.

 

The Steelers game is the exact same thing, except with more grey area as some Think James had Fingers under the ball. I disagree but we debated that dead horse in another thread.

 

the Bills game was a terrible call to overturn the TD  but the Bills failed to show up after half time. I do believe I heard the same complaint for the Miami game except then it was only the O who failed show up. Now I know people say that "change momentum" etc etc the fact is a team has come out and play a full 60 minutes and if something like that makes you play THAT poorly well then that's sad!

I love bill laimbeer

Edited December 29, 2017 by westerndecline

[BillsFan692]

11 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

False.  The games you are referencing (the Jets game) was for the tie but was called correctly as it has happened in four other games since then the most recent being Derek Carr fumbling the ball threw the end zone. Just because YOU don't like the rule doesn't make it a bad call, it just makes it a bad rule.

 

The Steelers game is the exact same thing, except with more grey area as some Think James had Fingers under the ball. I disagree but we debated that dead horse in another thread.

 

the Bills game was a terrible call to overturn the TD  but the Bills failed to show up after half time. I do believe I heard the same complaint for the Miami game except then it was only the O who failed show up. Now I know people say that "change momentum" etc etc the fact is a team has come out and play a full 60 minutes and if something like that makes you play THAT poorly well then that's sad!

 

That wasn't even the only call... the 4th and 1 when the bills clearly stopped the running 2+ yards from the scrimmage, but they give him credit for a lame ass extension that under the actual rules of the game isn't actually allowed. (You can reach for the out of bounds, or for the end zone where the play ends immediately, but you can't reach and then pull the ball back to your body and get the spot for your "maximum extension". On a play so critical, they really messed that up.

So that's TWO huge momentum swings in the game against buffalo.

What about the 50 yard PI call???? 

I mean after 3 of those.... you check out. The players checked out for sure. Who can really blame them? The fix was clearly in.

[without a drought]

Maybe the Bills still get screwed when playing the Patriots, but they did win a game by 6 in which they returned an incomplete pass for a touchdown, and that is the reason the Bills can still make the playoffs and the Falcons could miss out. 

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, BillsFan692 said:

 

That wasn't even the only call... the 4th and 1 when the bills clearly stopped the running 2+ yards from the scrimmage, but they give him credit for a lame ass extension that under the actual rules of the game isn't actually allowed. (You can reach for the out of bounds, or for the end zone where the play ends immediately, but you can't reach and then pull the ball back to your body and get the spot for your "maximum extension". On a play so critical, they really messed that up.

So that's TWO huge momentum swings in the game against buffalo.

What about the 50 yard PI call???? 

I mean after 3 of those.... you check out. The players checked out for sure. Who can really blame them? The fix was clearly in.

The fourth in one he clearly stretched out and made the first down marker. Your theory being stopped 2 YARDS short was wrong by any standard. And yes you can tell his knees were not down. Also the Bills fans read that rule wrong. But that's typical all fans read it to benefit their team. It was correct.  Because if you WATCH the entire play his knee goes down and the ball goes back in. The ball is where it was when you are down and that is when a knee hits. But hey nice try.

 

the 50 yard PI. REALLY! You mean the one where he never looked back for the ball and ran into the pats WR! Ya that wasn't PI.. it was TEXT BOOK PI! Fact you think that was wrong when ANYONE who was even semi impartial saw that as a penalty is bad.

 

sorry your Bills stink it up the entire second half.  You read it 

[MPT]

On 12/25/2017 at 2:37 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Vote with your dollars.

 

Unfortunately the Tom Brady / Bill Belichick dynasty makes a lot more money than Bills fans can undermine by boycotting TV subscriptions or merchandise. They will continue to get favorable treatment until Brady finally retires and Patriots fans go back to their holes until the next big thing. Or perhaps until they get caught cheating a third time. There must be a breaking point somewhere. Or not. 

[MPT]

On 12/25/2017 at 3:40 PM, Dorkington said:

I don't understand why Bills fans continue to be surprised by this. Good teams get calls, middling/bad teams don't. Simple as that. If we all of a sudden have a HoF coach and QB, and become a ratings and ticket darling, then we'll get calls too. The NFL isn't unique in this, it happens in other sports too. 

 

I hear things like this from Patriots fans a lot. When a blatantly biased call goes to their way, they'll say something like "well they've earned it." But no. They've earned Super Bowl rings, MVP trophies, first ballot hall of fame entry, gobs of endorsements, and eternal New England admiration. But they haven't earned the right to play by a different set of rules. That line of thinking shouldn't be acceptable to anyone, especially to the people who are constantly on the wrong end of it. It's reality, but that doesn't make it excusable. 

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

The fourth in one he clearly stretched out and made the first down marker. Your theory being stopped 2 YARDS short was wrong by any standard. And yes you can tell his knees were not down. Also the Bills fans read that rule wrong. But that's typical all fans read it to benefit their team. It was correct.  Because if you WATCH the entire play his knee goes down and the ball goes back in. The ball is where it was when you are down and that is when a knee hits. But hey nice try.

 

the 50 yard PI. REALLY! You mean the one where he never looked back for the ball and ran into the pats WR! Ya that wasn't PI.. it was TEXT BOOK PI! Fact you think that was wrong when ANYONE who was even semi impartial saw that as a penalty is bad.

 

sorry your Bills stink it up the entire second half.  You read it 

 

To the first point: he extended the ball and then pulled it back before his knee hit the ground. It's the same as if he gained the first down and then willingly ran backwards behind the first down marker before being tackled. Forward progress does not apply to backward motion if it is not caused by a defender. 

 

Second point: He tried to turn around, but the bear hug got in his way. 

 

Third point: True. 

[BobbyC81]

On December 24, 2017 at 1:15 PM, sullim4 said:

If there is any accountability, he will be fired.

 

But we all know there isn't.

 

Is there not enough refutable evidence?