BurpleBull Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: You can keep your stance. Seems like you're a bit sensitive about that. Of course I can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: Not at all, put me on ignore. I'm not going to break down that post. You're being ridiculous just like how you came into this thread. Playing the I gotta believe this because people on a message board will label me card. I didn't label him anything. The other guy I called a sexist. And he is one, but you don't quote those posts. No need for ignore. Just that most people are not STUMPED when you ask them what their thought process was. Because they know. That didn't happen with you. Now I know that about you. No wonder you rely on making remarks about how childish I am. Do you know why that is a stupid thing to say? Take a minute and think. Still can't say? It is stupid Ol Dirty B to say I am childish, because you don't know me! And I am done in here so adios to the Beth thread. Edited December 18, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She was horrible. Thank God that is behieand ussss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, BurpleBull said: Of course I can... And you can keep your type writer, your pager, your fax machine, your out house, your wing t formation, your vcr, and everything else that was left in history. You just might be considered a hoarder at some point and get on a reality show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: And you can keep your type writer, your pager, your fax machine, your out house, your wing t formation, your vcr, and everything else that was left in history. You just might be considered a hoarder at some point and get on a reality show. And you can keep trying to guilt me out of my stance...ain't gonna work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: No need for ignore. Just that most people are not STUMPED when you ask them what their thought process was. Because they know. That didn't happen with you. Now I know that about you. No wonder you rely on making remarks about how childish I am. Do you know why that is a stupid thing to say? Take a minute and think. Still can't say? It is stupid Ol Dirty B to say I am childish, because you don't know me! And I am done in here so adios to the Beth thread. I wasn't stumped. The conclusion is clear to draw. When someone says "Even My (insert here)" says something to support a previously drawn conclusion because you know, a girl doesn't like her. So that means it's cool for all of us to not like her. I'm not full of **** you just don't like what I'm saying. Which is fine. But to say I can't support what I'm saying is just wrong and simple. It's an easy dismissal tactic. Or maybe I'm just giving you too much credit for being able to read into things. Edited December 18, 2017 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: I wasn't stumped. The conclusion is clear to draw. When someone says "Even My (insert here)" says something to support a previously drawn conclusion because you know, a girl doesn't like her. So that means it's cool for all of us to not like her. I'm not full of **** you just don't like what I'm saying. Which is fine. But to say I can't support what I'm saying is just wrong and simple. It's an easy dismissal tactic. Or maybe I'm just giving you too much credit for being able to read into things. He said "Voice". She did not like her "voice" So maybe YOU should not be pointing the finger at me for not understanding things here. I think you are just a nasty person looking to pick at people and make yourself feel like a more enlightened person while doing it. With Beth I do not like her voice in big doses. Which of course is only a problem because she is an announcer. It would also be a problem is she was a singer. I do not know what you sound like. But you, I do not like. See the difference? I do not like you in a house. I do not like you with a mouse. I do not like you here or there. I do not like you anywhere. Ok Im done for good in here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devldog131 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The one thing you MUST do is get the QB's name right. She repeatedly called Tyrod Taylor "McCoy" all game long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richstadiumowner Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: going to make fun of him for his antiquity. So thursday...? Edited December 18, 2017 by richstadiumowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Im listening to the game on TV and I said to myself that she has the type of voice that annoys me (think Ma Kettle) and that I will not be able to tell anyone that her voice bothers me, because I will be accused of "hating" women. I do not hate women. Quite the contrary. I come pretty close to hating lablers and accusers because of things liek that though. Anyway, I liked her and her voice because apparently I have to. It's a fair point, and you can dislike her voice and not be sexist, but what is interesting to me is why is that the go to initial response for so many people here. Would that be the same response if that was a male announcer with essentially the same voice, or would you focus on more concrete and quantitative aspects to use as an example for the issues you have with that announcer? For what it's worth, I initially didn't like Mowins' voice when I heard her to Cuse games, but after a couple games it stopped being an issue/never was an issurle in the first place. I didn't throw a fit saying I would mute the game, like many here. I listened, got used to her, and acknowledged I had a bias which is out of my control, while not allowing myself to be a slave to those biases. I am a human being with the ability to control, supress and understand my body and mind's initial responses. I did so, and realized it was an issue of me adapting to change and once my mind and ears got used to it, I stopped noticing her voice having features that were jarring. So, no you are not sexist for having that initial response, you are fair in saying that people need to chill out and listen to people's opinions that they might now agree with without summoning an angry twitter mob. That said, you are sexist if you do not acknowledge that you might have some preconditioned societal biases that have been ingrained in you, and you shut yourself off from the concept that approaching it with an open mind and fighting past your initial reaction you realize you have a filter over your ears that was placed there by society...it's all about personal growth, and realizing that our intial responses are not who we truly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDO'Kearney Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 When you read her bio she could hardly be more qualified. Listening to Mowins was average, she didn't flow or sound authoritative though. I heard her call Taylor McCoy a bunch, but Summerall got names and yardlines wrong for 5 years and no one got mad at him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, TDO'Kearney said: When you read her bio she could hardly be more qualified. Listening to Mowins was average, she didn't flow or sound authoritative though. I heard her call Taylor McCoy a bunch, but Summerall got names and yardlines wrong for 5 years and no one got mad at him.... I think it's the difference in play clock between college and nfl...have heard her do plenty of college football games where flow wasn't an issue. That or shevwas working with an inexperienced color commentator, who I also thought had potential, but needs more practice. If that was his first game though, he did great, and she would have been a huge reason for that...if I was going to do color for a game, Mowins might be my top choice...she's incredibly experienced, ha, plus it looks like no one would even focus on me and just lob insults at Mowins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, HardyBoy said: It's a fair point, and you can dislike her voice and not be sexist, but what is interesting to me is why is that the go to initial response for so many people here. Would that be the same response if that was a male announcer with essentially the same voice, or would you focus on more concrete and quantitative aspects to use as an example for the issues you have with that announcer? For what it's worth, I initially didn't like Mowins' voice when I heard her to Cuse games, but after a couple games it stopped being an issue/never was an issurle in the first place. I didn't throw a fit saying I would mute the game, like many here. I listened, got used to her, and acknowledged I had a bias which is out of my control, while not allowing myself to be a slave to those biases. I am a human being with the ability to control, supress and understand my body and mind's initial responses. I did so, and realized it was an issue of me adapting to change and once my mind and ears got used to it, I stopped noticing her voice having features that were jarring. So, no you are not sexist for having that initial response, you are fair in saying that people need to chill out and listen to people's opinions that they might now agree with without summoning an angry twitter mob. That said, you are sexist if you do not acknowledge that you might have some preconditioned societal biases that have been ingrained in you, and you shut yourself off from the concept that approaching it with an open mind and fighting past your initial reaction you realize you have a filter over your ears that was placed there by society...it's all about personal growth, and realizing that our intial responses are not who we truly are. Her calling Taylor McCoy repeatedly & random Fish linemen Wake repeatedly soured me on her. Feeley felating the Fishies on top of that made the decision to listen to music rather than them an easy choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, JMF2006 said: My GF was asking why? She thinks she is horrible and the announcing should be left to men. She hated her side kick too. I had both my 4 and 8 yr old boys asking - why is there a lady announcer, it doesn't sound right Edited December 18, 2017 by Jukester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 This is a great thread...especially now that the 16-page ignore limit has been lifted. Like shoot'n fish in a barrel. Thanks, OP.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She was fine. So was Feeley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She was terrible. And the fact she referred to players by their first name over and over made it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I didn't care for her. Her accent, mistakes, and trying to sound like 'one of the guys' wore on me after awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Taro T said: Her calling Taylor McCoy repeatedly & random Fish linemen Wake repeatedly soured me on her. Feeley felating the Fishies on top of that made the decision to listen to music rather than them an easy choice. For me, Greg Gumble asking with 15 seconds before the two minute warning if the team doesn't get out of bounds should they use a timeout (their last for good measure) is so much worse than missing on a name or two a few times. Missing names is a communication issue with her spotter that gets resolved with team building. Gumble asking that earlier in the season shows a complete lack of knowledge of strategy and understanding of the sport he is announcing. Where was the 9 page in a day thread slamming Gumble? Also, Romo gets things wrong all the time, and it's part of the charm (obviously not strategy stuff). Again, as I mentioned earlier, I think people have a problem with her not because she is a woman per se, but because the way she does it is in a stereotypically male way, and it rubs people biases the wrong way. Romo does it in an aw shucks dude next door way that is endearing, Julie Foudie does it in a much more sterotypically feminie way, but Mowins sounds stereotypically male, and that is messing with people's heads...that isn't a her issue though, stop being a sheep that is triggered into a predefined response by the queen of hearts, and think for yourselves. Edited December 18, 2017 by HardyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCardsFan Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She does that phony announcer voice ala Kenny Albert that gets on my nerves. As for no one criticizing male announcers for mistakes, that's also not true. People on message boards have griped and called for Dick Stockton to retire for years for making mistakes. Or how about when FOX had UFCs Mike Goldberg doing games? He was so bad, and criticized so harshly, that he had a Twitter meltdown and was removed before he was due to call the Bills-Vikings game a few years ago. Beth is a decent basketball announcer and good at softball, but has never been strong at football. I remember a college game a few years ago where she got into it a bit with her analyst because she kept criticizing a team for punting the ball "when it was third down." The analyst (I want to say it was Ray Bentley) said it was 4th down more than once and she became frustrated. He was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She's what I would have expected out of a 'E' team NFL crew. Nothing insightful, made several mistakes, lacked polish, and was repetitive. I can't remember if she made reference to Jack Nicklaus being the grandfather of Nick O'Leary... bonus points if she didn't. Feely was just as bad. Of all the CBS crews, I prefer Harlan/Gannon. I think Kevin Harlan is excellent at PBP and Gannon is a decent color commentator. Romo is better but I don't care for Nantz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) On 12/12/2017 at 11:44 AM, Fadingpain said: I listend to her call of the game earlier in the season with Rex, and thought her voice was a funny sounding man's voice; was quite surprised to find out it was a woman. Al Michaels is starting to lose it with age; he is not what he used to be. Not sure who the best play by play football person is these days; they are all pretty bad. Romo is the best thing I've ever heard from a color guy. I'm so used to garbage broadcast teams for Bills game it doesn't really matter who is doing the job. They are processing her voice with a Harmonizer. It's very weird sounding. All announcers are using them, but it is really pronounced on her voice. They are trying to make her voice sound like a male voice. She isn't great, but did a passable job. Edited December 18, 2017 by OJABBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 hours ago, NewCardsFan said: She does that phony announcer voice ala Kenny Albert that gets on my nerves. As for no one criticizing male announcers for mistakes, that's also not true. People on message boards have griped and called for Dick Stockton to retire for years for making mistakes. Or how about when FOX had UFCs Mike Goldberg doing games? He was so bad, and criticized so harshly, that he had a Twitter meltdown and was removed before he was due to call the Bills-Vikings game a few years ago. Beth is a decent basketball announcer and good at softball, but has never been strong at football. I remember a college game a few years ago where she got into it a bit with her analyst because she kept criticizing a team for punting the ball "when it was third down." The analyst (I want to say it was Ray Bentley) said it was 4th down more than once and she became frustrated. He was right. Nice post, strong valid points I actually preferred her doing football to basketball...don't think she talks about the game enough in basketball, but the pace lines up just right with football since nothing happens 90% of the time. I think she tries to sound like Marv Albert, which again might not be one's preference, but what was happening at the start of this thread was backing into a reason not to like her in order to validate and confirm one's initial bias. I agree people complain about announcers all the time, but not in a 9 page thread with over half the post fitting the criteria above. Also, careful with the Goldberg analogy, I totally get your point and it supports your argument, but someone might force your argument on the defensive by saying that the Goldberg move was clearly a publicity stunt, are you saying the same about Mowins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: I wasn't stumped. The conclusion is clear to draw. When someone says "Even My (insert here)" says something to support a previously drawn conclusion because you know, a girl doesn't like her. So that means it's cool for all of us to not like her. I'm not full of **** you just don't like what I'm saying. Which is fine. But to say I can't support what I'm saying is just wrong and simple. It's an easy dismissal tactic. Or maybe I'm just giving you too much credit for being able to read into things. No, you’re pretty much full of ****. the voice was so obnoxiously grating that she could have offered the greatest football insight since John madden and it wouldn’t have mattered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Do we really need announcers anymore....all they do is tell you what you are seeing. There's no real analysis....plus it's mostly mindless chatter. All the info you need is on the screen and the refs are mic'd. How many times did Feely mention the weather....it was a non factor yet he brought it up all game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jukester said: I had both my 4 and 8 yr old boys asking - why is there a lady announcer, it doesn't sound right That's a sad statement. My 16 year old huge football fan daughter noted it and I told her she was the first woman in 30 years to call an NFL game. She couldn't believe it and when she asked why, I provided only the answer that many men are sexist, and will hide it in "shrill" voice and other things they don't say about men. They will pick up on her errors--the same ones men make--and magnify them. It's always hard to break the ceiling. Today, I'll link my daughter to this thread. She was fine. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Announcers all sort of flow one into the next. She made a few errors. Twice I heard McCoy for Taylor. Usually there's not a 16 page thread about it, except that she's a woman. There definitely don't need to be only men doing games. It doesn't take a man to do play-by-play. What grated on me was how awful the "Landry" tags were. They kept putting it on screen over about 8 guys. One time they actually put 5 Landry tags on the screen at the same time.Not once was it a helpful tag. Maybe we can blame that on the Mowins too. Or the camera work when Taylor threw to DiMarco at the five? Mowins clearly did an admirable job despite being surrounded by the "C" team. Edited December 18, 2017 by BeginnersMind 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, HardyBoy said: It's a fair point, and you can dislike her voice and not be sexist, but what is interesting to me is why is that the go to initial response for so many people here. Would that be the same response if that was a male announcer with essentially the same voice, or would you focus on more concrete and quantitative aspects to use as an example for the issues you have with that announcer? For what it's worth, I initially didn't like Mowins' voice when I heard her to Cuse games, but after a couple games it stopped being an issue/never was an issurle in the first place. I didn't throw a fit saying I would mute the game, like many here. I listened, got used to her, and acknowledged I had a bias which is out of my control, while not allowing myself to be a slave to those biases. I am a human being with the ability to control, supress and understand my body and mind's initial responses. I did so, and realized it was an issue of me adapting to change and once my mind and ears got used to it, I stopped noticing her voice having features that were jarring. So, no you are not sexist for having that initial response, you are fair in saying that people need to chill out and listen to people's opinions that they might now agree with without summoning an angry twitter mob. That said, you are sexist if you do not acknowledge that you might have some preconditioned societal biases that have been ingrained in you, and you shut yourself off from the concept that approaching it with an open mind and fighting past your initial reaction you realize you have a filter over your ears that was placed there by society...it's all about personal growth, and realizing that our intial responses are not who we truly are. Thank you for being the voice of reason here. Your posts are refreshing. I doubt that many people will take in your point that our first reactions are conditioned (not just "reality" or "my opinion"). Well, they'll admit it's true for other people, just not for them. But it's nice that you are taking the time to write thoughtfully about the fact that the "it's her voice" argument is nowhere near as simple as it appears. Personally, I found her decent. Easy to listen to. Some unfortunate stumbles, but what else is new? Most announcers make them regularly. It is too bad that she kept calling Taylor McCoy, since it's easy ammunition for anyone who doesn't want to reflect on this issue with more nuance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Since she is from nearby Syracuse I like her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Her voice didn't bother me but she made too many mistakes...though most announcers do and all Feely could talk about was the weather affecting the kicking game. He offered no insight at all. Like i said earlier...there is no longer a need for announcers...all info you need is on the screen...I don't need people to tell me what I'm seeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 16 hours ago, blatchy said: Here's all I can say: I'm thrilled to be a member on here. Want to keep it on the positive side. But I've heard this argument for years, about her voice. And in a performance driven industry, where results are ALWAYS the determining factor, she keeps getting bigger and bigger games. Agree to disagree. My 83 year old Mom called me during the 1st quarter to ask what I thought about her. “Fingernails scratching on a chalkboard”. Beyond her annoying voice, is a unique CNY accent. Professional sports announcers are expected to be talking heads, clearly enunciating perfect English. i have no issue with women breaking into another ‘Man Job’. I have issues with unworthiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: My 83 year old Mom called me during the 1st quarter to ask what I thought about her. “Fingernails scratching on a chalkboard”. Beyond her annoying voice, is a unique CNY accent. Professional sports announcers are expected to be talking heads, clearly enunciating perfect English. i have no issue with women breaking into another ‘Man Job’. I have issues with unworthiness. And that's exactly what these white knights and social just warriors can't stand (or understand). Pretty much nobody cares that a female called the game. It's her performance that was lackluster and her voice is simply annoying. To those people, sorry, just because she is a woman doesn't mean she is untouchable or beyond criticism. The reason this thread is so long is because it was a female announcer. It's only this long because of the PC people having a problem with a female announcer being criticized. To those posters, sorry, but she just isn't very good and is annoying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She did not lessen my enjoyment of the game one iota. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: I had no idea Reba McIntyre did color commentary You leave my Reba alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I've just heard her too much on noon Iowa - Northwestern Big Ten games. She's fine if I want to take a nap during a game. She's clearly lower rung when it comes to the other announcers doing NFL games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 She was solid but it took some getting used to for sure.. My wife was like "his voice sounds weird" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, phypon said: And that's exactly what these white knights and social just warriors can't stand (or understand). Pretty much nobody cares that a female called the game. It's her performance that was lackluster and her voice is simply annoying. To those people, sorry, just because she is a woman doesn't mean she is untouchable or beyond criticism. The reason this thread is so long is because it was a female announcer. It's only this long because of the PC people having a problem with a female announcer being criticized. To those posters, sorry, but she just isn't very good and is annoying. Where is the 15 page thread dedicated to Jay Feely? Who kept referring to a Bills zone blocking scheme that the Bills haven't run in the last 6 weeks. People are on her because she's a woman. Announcers screw up all the time. Hers were about par for the course for the C level announcers, which is exactly what she and her team were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Where is the 15 page thread dedicated to Jay Feely? Who kept referring to a Bills zone blocking scheme that the Bills haven't run in the last 6 weeks. People are on her because she's a woman. Announcers screw up all the time. Hers were about par for the course for the C level announcers, which is exactly what she and her team were. Sums it up well. And a c level broadcast isn't terrible. Most of us would do much worse. I'd hate to imagine what giving the microphone to someone like us for 3 hours would end up as. Only PTR has the ability, that I know of, to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Where is the 15 page thread dedicated to Jay Feely? Who kept referring to a Bills zone blocking scheme that the Bills haven't run in the last 6 weeks. People are on her because she's a woman. Announcers screw up all the time. Hers were about par for the course for the C level announcers, which is exactly what she and her team were. My thoughts exactly. He was just god awful. At one point his exact quote "Tyrod is most dangerous when he drops back" ..what???? Mowins was at least competent, not great, not awful..Feely was terrible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, plenzmd1 said: My thoughts exactly. He was just god awful. At one point his exact quote "Tyrod is most dangerous when he drops back" ..what???? Mowins was at least competent, not great, not awful..Feely was terrible He was right. He is most dangerous to the Bills when he drops back. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Where is the 15 page thread dedicated to Jay Feely? Who kept referring to a Bills zone blocking scheme that the Bills haven't run in the last 6 weeks. People are on her because she's a woman. Announcers screw up all the time. Hers were about par for the course for the C level announcers, which is exactly what she and her team were. Exactly. You want to compare her to spero dedes and I would say they were the same. feeley though made Solomon Wilcots look like a genius. He just repeated whatever mowins said and then threw in random advanced stats about jay cutler throwing in 40 degree weather when being blitzed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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