If Tyrod's the Starter, Then Why....?

[theRalph]

So Sean, why did you put Peterman in? Certainly not to win the game...it was way too late. To save face for Tyrod? I don't think so. Was Tyrod hurt? No. The only other reason to put him in was because he will soon be starting.

 

McDermott belied the coach speak he was using to recast his vote of confidence in Tyrod.  "Nathan’s a good player,” McDermott said. “I like what he did yesterday. I think he did some good things in the game. I know where they’re coming from, from a fan's standpoint.” He added the "from a fan's standpoint" after a pause, as if he thought to make sure no one took that as his thought. 

 

Don't be fooled. Behind closed doors at One Bills Drive, discussions about the quarterback play are in full swing. The issue with the offense is no different than it was in preseason. Except now, defensive coordinators have figured out Taylor. In the preseason and first couple of games, Taylor was largely ineffective in Dennison's offense. Specifically, he was unable to throw a quick slant or out from under center. So after a few games, we saw offensive changes that involved moving Taylor around. This helped some - to wit, the throw to O'Leary. But defenses caught up. The Jets and Saints linebackers didn't penetrate at times, preventing the surrounded Taylor from lateral escape. The Bills countered this with a nice QB draw on Sunday, but with nothing else.

 

The true counter to this is the quick throw. When linebackers must respect and cover low crossers, then they cannot crowd the box. Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws. We saw it in preseason and saw it again immediately upon entering the game. The rest is simple. When you can throw, you can move the ball. And use clock. And not subject your defense to 41+ minutes on the field.

 

 

[GoBills808]

A lot of teams pull their starting QB when the game is out of reach. I will admit they often take out their other starters along with him which the Bills didn't. If you want to look into those tea leaves have at it...I personally don't think Peterman is starting anytime soon.

[row_33]

it's up to the coaching staff when to pull a QB, I would have considered taking Brees out at halftime if not sooner

 

[YoloinOhio]

Nothing out of the ordinary  about taking the starter out once outcome is no longer in question. It allows the backup to get valuable game experience in case he does need to play at some point. 

[Jerome007]

Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws.

It sure is. The Jets destroyed that more than the Saints. But... Peterman has probably flaws that Tyrod doesn't have. And as he is more typical, it should not take long for opposing defenses to figure out. But he deserves a chance. In an ideal non-ego driven world, I'd play BOTH, heck sometimes even at the same time, as they'd be a nightmare to defend as they seem to have totally different styles. I know this though: if I was a wide receiver or even a tight end, I'd want the QB switch!

[LeGOATski]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

A lot of teams pull their starting QB when the game is out of reach. I will admit they often take out their other starters along with him which the Bills didn't. If you want to look into those tea leaves have at it...I personally don't think Peterman is starting anytime soon.

We definitely can look into those tea leaves.

 

It means Tyrod was the only one on their mind.

 

Means one of two things:

 

1. They think Tyrod is irreplaceable and didn't want to risk injury

 

2. They think Tyrod was the only one who deserved to get benched.

 

I'm not sure exactly what to think, but I don't see it as a good sign. As a coach, if you want to build toughness, you leave your guys out there to finish the game together.

 

Pulling your QB as you're winning by 3+ scores (i.e. Saints and Panthers) is an entirely different scenario.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

33 minutes ago, theRalph said:

So Sean, why did you put Peterman in? Certainly not to win the game...it was way too late. To save face for Tyrod? I don't think so. Was Tyrod hurt? No. The only other reason to put him in was because he will soon be starting.

 

McDermott belied the coach speak he was using to recast his vote of confidence in Tyrod.  "Nathan’s a good player,” McDermott said. “I like what he did yesterday. I think he did some good things in the game. I know where they’re coming from, from a fan's standpoint.” He added the "from a fan's standpoint" after a pause, as if he thought to make sure no one took that as his thought. 

 

Don't be fooled. Behind closed doors at One Bills Drive, discussions about the quarterback play are in full swing. The issue with the offense is no different than it was in preseason. Except now, defensive coordinators have figured out Taylor. In the preseason and first couple of games, Taylor was largely ineffective in Dennison's offense. Specifically, he was unable to throw a quick slant or out from under center. So after a few games, we saw offensive changes that involved moving Taylor around. This helped some - to wit, the throw to O'Leary. But defenses caught up. The Jets and Saints linebackers didn't penetrate at times, preventing the surrounded Taylor from lateral escape. The Bills countered this with a nice QB draw on Sunday, but with nothing else.

 

The true counter to this is the quick throw. When linebackers must respect and cover low crossers, then they cannot crowd the box. Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws. We saw it in preseason and saw it again immediately upon entering the game. The rest is simple. When you can throw, you can move the ball. And use clock. And not subject your defense to 41+ minutes on the field.

 

 

 

We did have quick throws.  They got batted down.

 

If you recall - NP had passes batted down at the line in preseason.  It's likely an issue with o-line as much as QB.  

35 minutes ago, theRalph said:

So Sean, why did you put Peterman in? Certainly not to win the game...it was way too late. To save face for Tyrod? I don't think so. Was Tyrod hurt? No. The only other reason to put him in was because he will soon be starting.

 

McDermott belied the coach speak he was using to recast his vote of confidence in Tyrod.  "Nathan’s a good player,” McDermott said. “I like what he did yesterday. I think he did some good things in the game. I know where they’re coming from, from a fan's standpoint.” He added the "from a fan's standpoint" after a pause, as if he thought to make sure no one took that as his thought. 

 

Don't be fooled. Behind closed doors at One Bills Drive, discussions about the quarterback play are in full swing. The issue with the offense is no different than it was in preseason. Except now, defensive coordinators have figured out Taylor. In the preseason and first couple of games, Taylor was largely ineffective in Dennison's offense. Specifically, he was unable to throw a quick slant or out from under center. So after a few games, we saw offensive changes that involved moving Taylor around. This helped some - to wit, the throw to O'Leary. But defenses caught up. The Jets and Saints linebackers didn't penetrate at times, preventing the surrounded Taylor from lateral escape. The Bills countered this with a nice QB draw on Sunday, but with nothing else.

 

The true counter to this is the quick throw. When linebackers must respect and cover low crossers, then they cannot crowd the box. Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws. We saw it in preseason and saw it again immediately upon entering the game. The rest is simple. When you can throw, you can move the ball. And use clock. And not subject your defense to 41+ minutes on the field.

 

 

 

You bring in a rookie, and you dare teams to crowd the line and confuse him with blitz packages and pickups.  Confusing causes turnovers.  Turnovers lose games.

[Buffalo Boy]

36 minutes ago, theRalph said:

So Sean, why did you put Peterman in? Certainly not to win the game...it was way too late. To save face for Tyrod? I don't think so. Was Tyrod hurt? No. The only other reason to put him in was because he will soon be starting.

 

McDermott belied the coach speak he was using to recast his vote of confidence in Tyrod.  "Nathan’s a good player,” McDermott said. “I like what he did yesterday. I think he did some good things in the game. I know where they’re coming from, from a fan's standpoint.” He added the "from a fan's standpoint" after a pause, as if he thought to make sure no one took that as his thought. 

 

Don't be fooled. Behind closed doors at One Bills Drive, discussions about the quarterback play are in full swing. The issue with the offense is no different than it was in preseason. Except now, defensive coordinators have figured out Taylor. In the preseason and first couple of games, Taylor was largely ineffective in Dennison's offense. Specifically, he was unable to throw a quick slant or out from under center. So after a few games, we saw offensive changes that involved moving Taylor around. This helped some - to wit, the throw to O'Leary. But defenses caught up. The Jets and Saints linebackers didn't penetrate at times, preventing the surrounded Taylor from lateral escape. The Bills countered this with a nice QB draw on Sunday, but with nothing else.

 

The true counter to this is the quick throw. When linebackers must respect and cover low crossers, then they cannot crowd the box. Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws. We saw it in preseason and saw it again immediately upon entering the game. The rest is simple. When you can throw, you can move the ball. And use clock. And not subject your defense to 41+ minutes on the field.

 

 

Hmmm?

Almost sounds like football 101?

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

We definitely can look into those tea leaves.

 

It means Tyrod was the only one on their mind.

 

Means one of two things:

 

1. They think Tyrod is irreplaceable and didn't want to risk injury

 

2. They think Tyrod was the only one who deserved to get benched.

 

I'm not sure exactly what to think, but I don't see it as a good sign. As a coach, if you want to build toughness, you leave your guys out there to finish the game together.

 

Pulling your QB as you're winning by 3+ scores (i.e. Saints and Panthers) is an entirely different scenario.

You don't have to think he's irreplaceable to want to avoid an injury at the end of a blowout. Similarly, neither do you have to think he was the only one who deserved to get benched...it's pretty standard fare pulling your starting QB down by 40 late.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Once we're out of it - I can comfortably switch because it becomes more of an evaluation. 

 

At this point the starter has practiced and game planned with the 1's for 10 weeks - and has a winning record to show for it.  He played a terrible game - but lets not act like the rest of the team played well.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Peterman did look better getting the ball off, he will also throw 6 INTs a game, because he throws with reckless abandon. 

[Billsfan1972]

Sure and Rob Johnson is warming on the sidelines........

[teef]

so threads can get to 25 pages plus.

[K-9]

Because there was no reason to risk injury to your starting QB in a blowout?

[BringBackOrton]

Pegula is making McD start Tyrod to keep ticket sales going.

[mjt328]

It was obvious the Bills coaching staff/front office wasn't 100% sold on Tyrod Taylor back in the offseason, when they were considering letting him walk out the door.  This is not something that has popped up suddenly after a few bad games.

 

The problem is, Taylor still almost certainly gives us a better chance to win than Nathan Peterman.  And until the Bills are knocked out of playoff contention, the goal is still winning.  Not trying to develop a 5th Round rookie. 

 

Regardless of what Peterman may have done against preseason 3rd stringers, or in garbage time with a 40 point deficit... it's not going to be anything like that against a real/regular season defense.  Look how great Mitch Trubisky and Deshone Kizer played in the preseason.  Once Week 1 kicked off, they looked like lost rookies.  Sure.  Maybe Peterman will find immediate success when the real bullets start flying.  But the odds are very much against him.  Even if he turns into an eventual starter in the NFL, it will probably come with severe growing pains. 

 

Unbelievable as it seems, the Bills still have a very realistic chance at landing a playoff spot. 

Maybe that means nothing to everyone expecting a quick exit on Wild Card Weekend.  But I'm a believer that 17 Years is mentally looming large over this franchise.  From the owners, to the front office, to the coaches, to the players, to the fans, to the entire city.  The pressure in that locker room to JUST make the 6th seed is tremendous.  I think that landing a playoff berth in McDermott's first year (especially when everyone expected us to totally tank) may have better long-term benefits than most would give credit.

 

 

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Nothing out of the ordinary  about taking the starter out once outcome is no longer in question. It allows the backup to get valuable game experience in case he does need to play at some point. 

 

^ This.

 

It also protects the starter from injury in an unwinnable game. The Saints should have pulled Brees around the middle of the 3rd quarter.

 

 

[CommonCents]

If anything I thought McD waited longer than he could have just to avoid a QB controversy. 

[SoCal Deek]

The coaching staff put Peterman in hoping against hope that he would fail miserably....but now they have a real problem.

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The coaching staff put Peterman in hoping against hope that he would fail miserably....but now they have a real problem.

 

I doubt they wanted Peterman to fail miserably.  The game was out of reach so why risk an injury to Tyrod.  It was an opportunity to give the backup QB some actual game reps, happens all the time.

Highly doubt the coaching staff has a real problem since McDermott actually said Tyrod is the starter.  Now why Tyrod is the starter if Dennison doesn't change how he runs the offense and calls the plays will be a good question to ask going forward, since it would exemplify the definition of insanity.

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

A lot of teams pull their starting QB when the game is out of reach. I will admit they often take out their other starters along with him which the Bills didn't. If you want to look into those tea leaves have at it...I personally don't think Peterman is starting anytime soon.

This is a pretty fair take IMO.

 

Pulling Tyrod was a typical NFL thing to do, and McD has proven to be a typical NFL coach so far.

 

I would imagine it was done to protect Tyrod's health in a game that could be not be won as much as anything.

 

McD is way, way too conservative and traditional to stir the pot by switching QBs at this point in the season.

I would put forth such a switch might actually save our season, and maintaing the status quo will actually hurt us.

 

Peterman will play once the season is lost...it's all very predictable, but McD is a predictable guy.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Pegula is making McD start Tyrod to keep ticket sales going.

That depends on the fan involved.

 

I think more interest would be generated by playing Peterman overall.

 

I would hope Pegula is leaving this type of coaching decision to the coaches.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

Enough is enough..... To think Peterman was put in as a dress rehearsal is as stoopid as Rob Johnson playing vs. Indy in a meaningless week 17 game in 1999.....  Ooops bad example.

 

2017 to date blowouts

 

Week 1 Indy

Week 3 Ravens

Week 4 Titans

Week 7 Cards

Week 8 Matt Moore played the whole game but 20 points scored in 4th

Week 9 Giants (even Eli was pulled)

 

Pretty much every blowout this year starter was pulled.....

 

Quit dreaming that Peterman is the second coming nof Tom Brady and this team is on the cusp of the Superbowl if Tyrod is pulled.....

[TigerJ]

The standard reasoning is to protect your starter from injury.  I don't care to try and read McDermott's mind.  Maybe it was to keep Tyrod healthy.  Maybe it was to get a glimpse of what Peterman can do in live regular season game conditions even if it was so called "garbage time."  I wouldn't read too much more into it than that, though if Tyrod continues to stink up the playing field, McDermott may be forced to consider starting Peterman at some point.

[THEHARDTRUTH]

41 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The coaching staff put Peterman in hoping against hope that he would fail miserably....but now they have a real problem.

I didnt realize three year olds could type and spell so well. Very impressive. Your arent friends with KirbyJackson and So Tier by chance are you?

Edited November 14, 2017 by THEHARDTRUTH

[26CornerBlitz]

17 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

The standard reasoning is to protect your starter from injury.  I don't care to try and read McDermott's mind.  Maybe it was to keep Tyrod healthy.  Maybe it was to get a glimpse of what Peterman can do in live regular season game conditions even if it was so called "garbage time."  I wouldn't read too much more into it than that, though if Tyrod continues to stink up the playing field, McDermott may be forced to consider starting Peterman at some point.

It was both as he stated in his presser yesterday.  Pretty standard at the NFL level. 

[Billzgobowlin]

The best I can tell is they are grooming Peterman or they honestly believe Taylor gives them the best chance to win.  One thing we don't know is what the coaches know, that being how ready is Peterman to take the pressure of starting.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, row_33 said:

it's up to the coaching staff when to pull a QB, I would have considered taking Brees out at halftime if not sooner

 

 

....I agree....24 consecutive running plays prolly tired his arm out......could be in Shoulder Protocol right now..............

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Enough is enough..... To think Peterman was put in as a dress rehearsal is as stoopid as Rob Johnson playing vs. Indy in a meaningless week 17 game in 1999.....  Ooops bad example.

 

2017 to date blowouts

 

Week 1 Indy

Week 3 Ravens

Week 4 Titans

Week 7 Cards

Week 8 Matt Moore played the whole game but 20 points scored in 4th

Week 9 Giants (even Eli was pulled)

 

Pretty much every blowout this year starter was pulled.....

 

Quit dreaming that Peterman is the second coming nof Tom Brady and this team is on the cusp of the Superbowl if Tyrod is pulled.....

How many of the losing teams pulled their QB?

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

How many of the losing teams pulled their QB?

Every one.....

[Rob's House]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Every one.....

Not quite. If you're trying to show it's common for starting QBs to be pulled from losing teams at the end of blow outs you've picked poor examples.

 

The only two that fit what you describe are Manning and Flacco (both are SB winning QBs over 30).

 

Palmer and Mariota were pulled before the second half of those games due to injury, Matt Moore, (as you stated) played the whole game, and Brissett came in at the end for Tolzein and took over the starting job. 

 

It does not appear that pulling young QBs to protect them in blow out losses is all that common.

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Not quite. If you're trying to show it's common for starting QBs to be pulled from losing teams at the end of blow outs you've picked poor examples.

 

The only two that fit what you describe are Manning and Flacco (both are SB winning QBs over 30).

 

Palmer and Mariota were pulled before the second half of those games due to injury, Matt Moore, (as you stated) played the whole game, and Brissett came in at the end for Tolzein and took over the starting job. 

 

It does not appear that pulling young QBs to protect them in blow out losses is all that common.

Those were the blowout games this year.  Not many and only starter who lasted the whole game is the Miami backup.

 

No it was a good sample.  Starters are pulled in the fourth when being blown out.  Live to fight another day.  At 5-4 they are in the hunt.  

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Those were the blowout games this year.  Not many and only starter who lasted the whole game is the Miami backup.

 

No it was a good sample.  Starters are pulled in the fourth when being blown out.  Live to fight another day.  At 5-4 they are in the hunt.  

Except only 2 of the 6 you listed fit your narrative. 

 

And there were other blow outs you didn't list. Like Buf v NYJ.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Rob's House

[Wayne Arnold]

4 hours ago, theRalph said:

So Sean, why did you put Peterman in? Certainly not to win the game...it was way too late. To save face for Tyrod? I don't think so. Was Tyrod hurt? No. The only other reason to put him in was because he will soon be starting.

 

McDermott belied the coach speak he was using to recast his vote of confidence in Tyrod.  "Nathan’s a good player,” McDermott said. “I like what he did yesterday. I think he did some good things in the game. I know where they’re coming from, from a fan's standpoint.” He added the "from a fan's standpoint" after a pause, as if he thought to make sure no one took that as his thought. 

 

Don't be fooled. Behind closed doors at One Bills Drive, discussions about the quarterback play are in full swing. The issue with the offense is no different than it was in preseason. Except now, defensive coordinators have figured out Taylor. In the preseason and first couple of games, Taylor was largely ineffective in Dennison's offense. Specifically, he was unable to throw a quick slant or out from under center. So after a few games, we saw offensive changes that involved moving Taylor around. This helped some - to wit, the throw to O'Leary. But defenses caught up. The Jets and Saints linebackers didn't penetrate at times, preventing the surrounded Taylor from lateral escape. The Bills countered this with a nice QB draw on Sunday, but with nothing else.

 

The true counter to this is the quick throw. When linebackers must respect and cover low crossers, then they cannot crowd the box. Taylor's inability to make the quick throw, the initial issue, is still the issue. Nathan Peterman is able to make these throws. We saw it in preseason and saw it again immediately upon entering the game. The rest is simple. When you can throw, you can move the ball. And use clock. And not subject your defense to 41+ minutes on the field.

 

 

Good post.

 

The Bills need to go 2-1 over these next three games in order for Tyrod to keep his starting job. Regardless of how good or bad he performs from an individual standpoint. They know what he is. It's all about wins and losses. 

 

Tyrod will start these next two road games regardless.

[Billsfan1972]

57 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Except only 2 of the 6 you listed fit your narrative. 

 

And there were other blow outs you didn't list. Like Buf v NYJ.

Find me them.    A blow-out is 30+ points heading into the 4th......  Not many games like that.......  Seldom is the starter out prior to that......  

[theRalph]

Well... There it is.