Team again quit on McDermott

[The Now Moment]

9 hours ago, mannc said:

Yes, if only the Ryan and Gailley regimes had been given a few more years....think what they could have accomplished.

I think this regime is different. JMO

[The Now Moment]

3 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Can you show recent examples of teams that took several years to build into a consistent playoff contender.  IE teams whose current head coaches did not make the playoffs in their first 3 years as coaches, but then went on to great successes down the road.  Tom Landry, Chuck Noll and the 70's don't count as recent. 

 

I never said they wouldn't be successful in the first three years...I said it would take about three years for them to replace the old regimes inherited players with their guys.  Having guys that don't fit the scheme has been one of the biggest problems over the last decade and it will just continue unless we let regimes play out a little. It's been less than a season and people are already calling for heads.  Belichick sucked his first year in New England, Coughlin sucked as well and coughlin lost a few of the players in the locker room but he had a plan just like these guys do IMO.  Stay the course and trust the process.  I think we finally chose the right guys, I'd be nice to see them get a a few years for a change. 

[Luka]

If I were McD I'd be firing Dennison, benching Tyrod and spending a little more time in those defensive meetings. McD said that every starting position is constantly being evaluated but he has not been true to his word. Milano would be playing if that was true. Peterman would be playing if that were true.

The personnel moves are questionable, sure, but the management of the guys on the roster is proving to be pretty horrific. The constant offensive line shuffling. Not using Taiwan Jones as McCoy's backup. Not having an answer for Dareus' spot but trading him anyways.

And the play calling on both sides of the ball is awful. I mean MAYBE Dennison isn't quite as bad as he looks, given that no matter what passing play he calls his QB won't throw the football. But what's Fraizer's excuse? Is he even needed? All we play is Cover 2 Zone. No stunts, no shifts, no twists, no blitzes. I guess I shouldn't say his play calling is bad, his play calling is non existent.

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

How about, you know, like  . . . FITTING THE SCHEMES TO THE PLAYERS?

 

Oh, no, we're too smart for that. 

Well that'd be nice but the coaches have coached in specific schemes for a long time.  Frazier and McDermott are known for the cover 2 just like Rex was known for his defense...just like Wade Phillips is known for his defense and so on.  All coaches specialize in certain schemes.  If they don't know how to coach the scheme it makes it harder.  Matching the players to the scheme takes longer but in the end I think will be more successful.  It just requires patience to let them fill the roster with their guys but Buffalo fans don't have patience.  Understandably so, but if we ever want to get out of this rut...maybe we should try something different

[Noogie75]

It's not the defense it's Tyrod.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What's disturbing is that this roster was supposed to be devoid of quitters,  if nothing else.

 

That's a flaw in the McD plan..........EVERYONE has a process until they get punched in the mouth.

 

Most embarrassing performance I have ever attended at the Ralph.......and I've been to hundreds of home games......they could scarcely have given less effort.

Less talent for more culture, only to find out we have neither.

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by jmc12290

[section122]

Yesterday was a tough pill to swallow.  I can excuse the Jets game as a short week, division opponent, blah blah blah.  The lack of effort yesterday was certainly eye opening.  Yesterday the run and pass offense were terrible.  Yesterday the run and pass defense were terrible.  I don't even know how that is possible.  It's chicken or egg trying to figure out if the offense sucked because the defense did or vice versa.  

 

Teams rush 5 against the Bills and get pressure.  What is done to fix that?  Nothing

The Bills rush 4 and get no pressure.  What is done to fix that?  Nothing

Tolbert as the backup rb is proving to be the disaster we all thought it would.  He has zero lateral quickness so it either needs to be a run up the gut or its a tfl.

Dareus is missed greatly in the middle of that d line.

The "leaders" on this team need to check themselves.  Both lines were dominated 2 weeks in a row.

 

After half time the defense came out and gave up a long drive.  I don't want to hear how it's the offenses fault they didn't force a single Saints punt.

Tyrod checked down short of the sticks so many times on 3rd down not even giving the team a chance at a first.  I don't want to hear it's the defenses fault they were playing from behind and couldn't get into their game plan.

 

It was concerning to me and not a positive that the players had to meet with the coaches to get them to go back to some of the things that made them successful last year.  The coaches should have already been doing that.  

 

All of this said and the Bills still sit at 5-4 in the drivers seat for a wc berth.  Time to see what McDermott and the process are made of.  Time for some major adjustments and the first one needs to be effort level.

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Less talent for more culture, only to find out we have neither.

 

 

Gotta' wonder if McD was having his "Maybe Christmas doesn't come from a store....?" moment yesterday.

 

Militaries have known for thousands of years that fatigue makes cowards of men.........but McD thinks he can have try hards run headlong into battle without some playmakers to support them in an era where player safety is in the forefront of their minds?    When that team was on D it might as well have been the floor at the NYSE there were so many business decisions getting made.     

 

 

[CLTbills]

How has changing the coaching regime every 2-3 years worked out for the last 2 decades?

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

How has changing the coaching regime every 2-3 years worked out for the last 2 decades?

 

 

How has changing the QB every 2-3 years worked out?   Or any of the other personnel? 

 

Your argument only makes sense if there is a need for regret.    Losing Marrone probably hurt.....I don't think we lost a great HC but it was a setback at the time.......otherwise mostly bad hires by Ralph's people in retrospect.

 

The common denominator, unfortunately,  is shaky decisions by ownership.

 

When the owner just doesn't really know what he's getting into and the ship is effectively rudderless,  mistakes tend to get repeated.

 

This is why a Czar was suggested to the Pegula's.    They decided to free wheel it........even though their level of football fandom was novice.

 

 

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, Noogie75 said:

It's not the defense it's Tyrod.

I would say it is the defense, Tyrod, and the Oline. The defense has been getting gashed. The Saints walked right down the field on them but the game was not out of reach early on. Tyrod and the Oline cannot get the offense moving. Conservative passes, runs, and QB pressure are killing this offense. For every good throw Tyrod has, he has three bad ones or he takes a sack.  Taylor will not take chances with the ball and I think he throws a lot of passes late instead of anticipating. Three and out too many times in a row is going to exhaust the defense. Then when a good offense is up by 3 TD's, the defense knows the offense isnt coming back so they mail in the rest of the game. 

[simool]

15 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

If they dont win next year they probably wont see the process through to the 3rd year of their contract. They dont have time to slowly right the ship 

 

I think they at least have 3 years, if not 4. Probably guaranteed too. I cannot see either McDermott or Beane coming here without assurances. They saw the epic gutting that need to occur here and they saw the plug get pulled on Rex.  No way either comes here without something to address those concerns.

[JPP]

1 hour ago, Noogie75 said:

It's not the defense it's Tyrod.

Its both genius.....over 400 yards rushing and its not the defence.....alrighty than!

Edited November 13, 2017 by JPP

[teef]

7 minutes ago, simool said:

 

I think they at least have 3 years, if not 4. Probably guaranteed too. I cannot see either McDermott or Beane coming here without assurances. They saw the epic gutting that need to occur here and they saw the plug get pulled on Rex.  No way either comes here without something to address those concerns.

i think this staff absolutely gets 3 years.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, teef said:

i think this staff absolutely gets 3 years.

I think you're probably right. Gregg Williams got 3, Mularkey 2 (although he quit), Jauron 3.5, Gailey 3, Jauron 2, and Ryan 2. Three is the median. 

[ndirish1978]

1 minute ago, simool said:

 

I think they at least have 3 years, if not 4. Probably guaranteed too. I cannot see either McDermott or Beane coming here without assurances. They saw the epic gutting that need to occur here and they saw the plug get pulled on Rex.  No way either comes here without something to address those concerns.

 

Agreed. This team simply has too many glaring holes to fill to be good in short order. We are going to have to trade all that draft capital we acquired for this year in order to pick up a QB. After that, we still need:

• 2 DTs
• A real starting MLB
• OLB
• CB2
• RT
• RG
• WR with speed
• RB to back up and then replace Shady
• TE with two working knees

That shopping list will take another 3 years to fill at the very least IF we hit on all of our picks. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I think you're probably right. Gregg Williams got 3, Mularkey 2 (although he quit), Jauron 3.5, Gailey 3, Jauron 2, and Ryan 2. Three is the median. 

i'm just assuming this because if an owner is going to let a staff dismantle a team like that, they're likely going to give them time to get it back in order, (or try to).  i'm willing to bet they even get 4 unless it becomes a total disaster.  i just can't imagine this team will be top end next year, and there's likely to be a new qb, and this team will be very young.  

 

i remember reading last year that some posters thought the browns were in a much better position than the bills going forward.  they were starting fresh with a number of picks.  now the bills are in this situation, and people are treating it like the end of the world.   the 2018 bills will look wildly different than the 2017 bills.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, teef said:

i'm just assuming this because if an owner is going to let a staff dismantle a team like that, they're likely going to give them time to get it back in order, (or try to).  i'm willing to bet they even get 4 unless it becomes a total disaster.  i just can't imagine this team will be top end next year, and there's likely to be a new qb, and this team will be very young.  

 

i remember reading last year that some posters thought the browns were in a much better position than the bills going forward.  they were starting fresh with a number of picks.  now the bills are in this situation, and people are treating it like the end of the world.   the 2018 bills will look wildly different than the 2017 bills.

Re year 4: if they're not good by year 3, i expect they'll be gone. Given them a year 4 after three bad ones would be similar to the Gus Bradley situation. That tends not to work out. 

[BillsVet]

Beane and McD both have had a wide amount of freedom from Ownership to get their guys. Not unlike Rex, who was behind signing TT, trading for McCoy, Clay, Incognito, drafting Lawson, et al. The latest regime in the generation of fail has somehow managed to make more moves and ended up with the same result. 

 

We're going to learn whether McD is just a louder and younger version of DJ. Ownership may not be bright enough to hire a czar, but they'll know when they're being mocked for still having an inept organization with another talker, albeit quieter, HC.

 

This roster is far thinner than most fans can admit. It's a good thing McBeane have all those draft picks because the roster still needs significant improvement. And finding lesser talented types who buy in when things are good isn't going to cut it in this league. DJ proved that when things were easier in the late "oughts."

[ndirish1978]

the question is, do we take a QB THIS year and leave him surrounded by a bunch of no-talent JAGs or do we use our multiple picks to get some actual talent on this team before drafting a QB? I suspect we will have to do the former and use up all our draft picks to move up and get that QB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

the question is, do we take a QB THIS year and leave him surrounded by a bunch of no-talent JAGs or do we use our multiple picks to get some actual talent on this team before drafting a QB? I suspect we will have to do the former and use up all our draft picks to move up and get that QB.

 

you HAVE to get a QB first.

 

otherwise the rest of the "talent" rots.

 

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

the question is, do we take a QB THIS year and leave him surrounded by a bunch of no-talent JAGs or do we use our multiple picks to get some actual talent on this team before drafting a QB? I suspect we will have to do the former and use up all our draft picks to move up and get that QB.

Stop. Punting. On. QBs. 

 

We wouldnt even have this problem if we just drafted Watson.

[ndirish1978]

David Carr says hi, but yeah I agree to have to get a QB asap.

Edited November 13, 2017 by ndirish1978

[Jobot]

This team was dominated from kick-off... Do you truly belie the Bills players decided to throw in the towel before it began??... No.  They were just dominated and had no answers to a better team.  Outplayed and Outcoached.

 

Gotta love this new buzz word though!  Let's use our heads to make some real opinions!  We're better than that Bills Fans!!!!

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think you're probably right. Gregg Williams got 3, Mularkey 2 (although he quit), Jauron 3.5, Gailey 3, Jauron 2, and Ryan 2. Three is the median. 

 

Two lots of Jauron.  I think I'd have given up by then.

[NoSaint]

Imagine how bad they would’ve quit if we kept sammy, or dareus! Lucky we have lesser but fully bought in talents.

[BillsfanAZ]

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No question.

 

This is basically Pegula letting these guys do whatever the !@#$ they want because he doesn't have a clue.... if they aren't winning by the end of next year they'll be on the hot seat.

How do you come to his conclusion? Most former coaches and football people have said McDermott and Beane were the right guys. Beane would be GM in Carolina if not for coming to Buffalo. An owner should not meddle in GM responsibilities as the GM I am sure informs the owner ahead of time. Beane and McDermott have to be given several drafts in order to get the type of players they want. I would be very surprised if Pegula put them on the hotseat after two seasons.....especially since Whaley got an extension. 

[The Frankish Reich]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Really?  The idea of being among the highest paid players at their position with poor performance should be held out in high regard?

I thought you were suggesting that Easterbrook's comment was out of line. I think he has a point: I haven't looked at the numbers, but I doubt you'll find a higher paid "side of the O line" (C-G-T) than Wood-Richie-Glenn.  We hear an awful lot about the problems on that neglected right side of the line, and that's been true for a lot of years now (Erick Pears, anyone?). But this year the Big 3 haven't done their job in opening up running lanes on that left side either. It's one thing for Vlad Ducasse and Jordan Mills to fail; that's pretty much expected based on what they are. When guys who are taking home a collective $25 million (roughly the total for 2017 for the Big 3) and they're not performing, you got a big, big problem.  

EDIT: take it with a grain of salt (and watch the small sample size with Glenn), but here's PFF's grades for the Big 3 in 2017 (not counting yesterday's apocalypse yet):  Richie - 14th rated G; Wood - 17th among C; Glenn - 47th best T.

Edited November 14, 2017 by The Frankish Reich

[stinky finger]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:54 PM, KOKBILLS said:

McD and Beane are going nowhere anytime in the near or even semi-distant future and you can literally take that to the bank...

I believe this to be extremely accurate.

[Punching Bag]

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000876632/article/gifs-that-help-tell-the-story-of-the-nfl-in-week-10

 

Just a reminder to keep your dignity and rooting interests intact when an opposing player enters your airspace. I'm not saying you should dump a beer on the guy or anything, but this dad serves as a PSA of how not to handle such a situation. Mark Ingram is right to shoo him away.  Clearly these Bills "fans" were more happy with him making a play against the Bills than anything else.

 

I am sure other "great supporting fanbases" do not cheer for opposing players - cannot see this happening in Green Bay.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Limeaid

[Sweats]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

 

 

Just a reminder to keep your dignity and rooting interests intact when an opposing player enters your airspace. I'm not saying you should dump a beer on the guy or anything, but this dad serves as a PSA of how not to handle such a situation. Mark Ingram is right to shoo him away.  Clearly these Bills "fans" were more happy with him making a play against the Bills than anything else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all honesty, what did these Bills fans have to look forward to all day?..........at least "some" team came to play and at least "some" players were scoring TD's.

 

I don't condone it, but i'm not going to scold some fans who spend their hard earned money on tickets and merchandise and then get embarrassed every week.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000876632/article/gifs-that-help-tell-the-story-of-the-nfl-in-week-10

 

Just a reminder to keep your dignity and rooting interests intact when an opposing player enters your airspace. I'm not saying you should dump a beer on the guy or anything, but this dad serves as a PSA of how not to handle such a situation. Mark Ingram is right to shoo him away.  Clearly these Bills "fans" were more happy with him making a play against the Bills than anything else.

 

I am sure other "great supporting fanbases" do not cheer for opposing players - cannot see this happening in Green Bay.

I cannot believe that guy, wearing Bills gear, celebrating with Ingram ....

[Punching Bag]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

I cannot believe that guy, wearing Bills gear, celebrating with Ingram ....

 

I can, he probably had him on his fantasy team and sold some of his season tickets to opposing fans.

[The juice]

McD and McB won’tast 3 years here. The whole character over talent does not cut it in the NFL

[Punching Bag]

It really depends on how good they draft/trade next year and what coaches they are willing to replace.

 

I changed my name from Koolaid to Limeaid when they decided to just start letting go coaches who appeared to doing a good job, 

[Agent 91]

11 hours ago, simool said:

 

I think they at least have 3 years, if not 4. Probably guaranteed too. I cannot see either McDermott or Beane coming here without assurances. They saw the epic gutting that need to occur here and they saw the plug get pulled on Rex.  No way either comes here without something to address those concerns.

Bravado my man. I highly doubt Peg is going to give anyone more than 2 years without showing progress. I doubt they would get fired at the same time but i could see one goinf if we had sayb 2 straight 7 - 9 seasons.

[reddogblitz]

11 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I think you're probably right. Gregg Williams got 3, Mularkey 2 (although he quit), Jauron 3.5, Gailey 3, Jauron 2, and Ryan 2. Three is the median. 

 

Terry is on his 4th head coach in 4 years.

[The Frankish Reich]

25 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Terry is on his 4th head coach in 4 years.

By the way, where's Rex? Where's his female play-by-play companion?

[BobbyC81]

15 hours ago, teef said:

we had an early snow already, and it finally knocked all the leaves off the trees.  it's going to be wet here the next week or two, so i decided to record the bills game and watch it when i was done.  i was bombarded by angry texts, so i looked at the score.  i didn't even bother to watch the game.  

 

that being said, was it really that bad?  i know the score showed it, but people are pissed.  we all knew that this is a rebuild project, but wow are people pissed.

 

I was so disgusted that, where I normally watch the best 2nd game matchup and usually watch the Sun nite game depending on the matchup on paper (Den/New Eng didn't seem so bad), I cancelled the recordings and watched a couple comedy movies instead. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think we see an overhaul in the front 7 like we had in the secondary this year.

I see at least 4 new starters next year in the front 7.  

 

 

Could be all seven. Which of them deserve to return?

 

 

15 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think defensive tackle and MLB are going to be priorities in the offseason along with QB.

I see two new starting DT's, a new starting MLB and DE opposite Jerry Hughes next year.

 

I don't think the human personal foul penalty (Hughes) returns.

Edited November 14, 2017 by LittleJoeCartwright

[BobbyC81]

15 hours ago, papazoid said:

team is not quitting.

 

trading away talent and lack of depth is catching up to them.

 

beane/mcd not going anywhere.

 

 

Yes, consider, that from the team that finished last season, 3 former 1st round picks (Watkins, Gillmore, Dareus) and 4 former 2nd end picks (Woods, Darby, Ragland, Kouandjio) are gone.  Not all of those players lived up to their draft position but that's a lot of talent shipped out.