SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) I get that Zay is doing very bad, but can we get an honest breakdown on how many were catchable? Catchable means him not having to jump up or dive for the ball, or passes that were OOB. (even by an inch) Edited October 26, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I get that Zay is doing very bad, but can we get an honest breakdown on how many were catchable? Catchable means him not having to jump up or dive for the ball, or passes that were OOB. (even by an inch) Catchable at the NFL level is anything that hits you in the hands. I recall the first three targets he had on Sunday all being catchable passes. He had to fight for the ball, but that's life in the NFL. You need to out muscle DBs and secure passes when you're covered, and he's simply not doing that. 7 catches on 32 attempts for 87 yards is as bad as it gets. He has no business being on the field right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I get that Zay is doing very bad, but can we get an honest breakdown on how many were catchable? Catchable means him not having to jump up or dive for the ball, or passes that were OOB. (even by an inch) I dont know how reliable this is but according to Mike Rodak: https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/923534378550079490 Of Zay Jones 32 official targets this season, 12 have been uncatchable passes from Tyrod Taylor That would mean hes caught 7 out of 20 catchable passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I dont know how reliable this is but according to Mike Rodak: https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/923534378550079490 Of Zay Jones 32 official targets this season, 12 have been uncatchable passes from Tyrod Taylor That would mean hes caught 7 out of 20 catchable passes. thanks HappyDays. .35 is better than .22. It still sucks, but at least I got a clearer picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 The targets to catch stat isn't helpful. What's he supposed to do when five of his targets aren't catchable? The first pass of the game would have been a tough catch, the defender was right on him. If your going to criticize him on that play, criticize the route. The one he bobbled was a clear drop. The deep throw into the end zone, he needs to do better at selling the out route, the LB never fell for that. He still might have had it had he not been tripped up. Obviously he needs to do better, but you can't just look at 2 catches on 9 targets and make a conclusion about his performance. And yet, with the same QB throwing, all the other Bills receivers have a much higher rate of catches. How ya 'splain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 thanks HappyDays. .35 is better than .22. It still sucks, but at least I got a clearer picture. Its beyond sucking. A 50% catch rate on catchable balls I would consider terrible. Anything below that is disgustingly bad. He doesnt get open in man coverage either. Zay has been an outright bust so far. Other rookie receivers are producing so his experience isnt an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Chemistry between a Qb and Wr is tricky. This is a very unique situation. He is thrown to a lot. I do not recall Watkins getting this kind of pass share. Now Taylor and Jones are still working on getting on the same page but without any in game production its still a little bizarre seeing the amount of passes going his way. Its a complete reckless speculation but Jones must be balling out in practice and looking good to where he is a large part of the game plan. For whatever reason he has not made the best of the situations but obviously Taylor has a lot of faith in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 @mikerodak Of Zay Jones’ 32 official targets this season, 12 have been uncatchable passes from Tyrod Taylor https://t.co/IIOkjU335z PFT: Zay Jones says criticism of his play is fair In a film review of the Bills’ first six games, Mike Rodak of ESPN found that 12 of those passes were not catchable but the remaining numbers still aren’t where they need to be for a starting wideout. That’s led to criticism and Jones isn’t arguing against it. “It’s fair,” Jones said, via ESPN.com. “I expect a lot of myself. I know my coaches do. The players around me do. It’s really fair, to be honest. Wherever the ball is, it’s my job to catch it and do the best I can. I accept it fully and do the best I can. So I accept it fully. I’m not running from it. But I know things are going to get better. My time will come.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I dont know how reliable this is but according to Mike Rodak: https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/923534378550079490 Of Zay Jones 32 official targets this season, 12 have been uncatchable passes from Tyrod Taylor That would mean hes caught 7 out of 20 catchable passes. His route running and body control have been suspect as well..........both were huge factors in the drop that cost them the Carolina game.........some of that might be figured into the "catchable" drops category already but not all of it. It's a little odd that that typically accurate Taylor has had some very inaccurate looking throws to Dropzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Its beyond sucking. A 50% catch rate on catchable balls I would consider terrible. Anything below that is disgustingly bad. He doesnt get open in man coverage either. Zay has been an outright bust so far. Other rookie receivers are producing so his experience isnt an excuse. So far Zay Jones has been everything the negatives on his scouting report said he could be. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/zay-jones?id=2557863 plays slow doesn't stretch the field doesn't have a second gear to create separation unable to shake tight coverage limited after the catch His "bottom line" said he needs to show he can create separation if he's going to ever become anything more than a reserve at the NFL level, and so far he's failed miserably in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 So far Zay Jones has been everything the negatives on his scouting report said he could be. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/zay-jones?id=2557863 plays slow doesn't stretch the field doesn't have a second gear to create separation unable to shake tight coverage limited after the catch His "bottom line" said he needs to show he can create separation if he's going to ever become anything more than a reserve at the NFL level, and so far he's failed miserably in that area. You don't need a ton of separation for most QB's to throw you the ball on the NFL level (arguably this isn't true for Taylor, but that's a whole other can of worms). His issue is just that when he is being thrown the ball, he isn't catching it. Tyrod would not continue to force the ball to Zay if Zay is not getting any separation. This is not a separation issue, it's a catching the ball issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 You don't need a ton of separation for most QB's to throw you the ball on the NFL level (arguably this isn't true for Taylor, but that's a whole other can of worms). His issue is just that when he is being thrown the ball, he isn't catching it. Tyrod would not continue to force the ball to Zay if Zay is not getting any separation. This is not a separation issue, it's a catching the ball issue I disagree. Most of the times Jones is thrown the ball the defender is draped all over him because he can't create any separation. Defenders just sit in his back pocket and break on the ball when it's in the air. A lot of passes are catchable because they're hitting him in the hands, but they're still contested because he can't shake man coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Actually, none of the points listed above have really been his problem. Nowhere is (i) learning to finish his route or (ii) failure to catch the ball listed. Route stuff is being a rook. Drops are having the yips. CHILL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 He's like a golfer with the laterals. Have him put his helmet on backward, move his change from his left pocket to his right, and then go out and play. He'll be fixed in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 @JonScottTV Jordan Matthews has become a big brother to the struggling Zay Jones. Why? Because he sees himself in the rookie. More 2nite. #Bills https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/923625117522915328/pu/vid/1280x720/jR2sHc1dW4iOF4Hv.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) @JonScottTV Jordan Matthews has become a big brother to the struggling Zay Jones. Why? Because he sees himself in the rookie. More 2nite. #Bills https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/923625117522915328/pu/vid/1280x720/jR2sHc1dW4iOF4Hv.mp4 Nice 👍🏻 Edited October 26, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Perry Tuttle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Perry Tuttle Traded up to get him while passing on Mike Quick. Oops! Edited October 27, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Traded up to get him while passing on Mike Quick. Oops! Seems to be a theme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Patience.... He’ll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Patience.... He’ll be fine. I hope so, but my name isn't Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 @PFWeekly .@Eric_Edholm on #Bills rookie WR Zay Jones, whose confidence needs repair, not team’s belief in 2nd-rounder. WWHI: http://www.profootballweekly.com/lists/2017/10/26/944bfc4d04794193aa7fd68a0545e91b/index.xml Buffalo Bills wide receiver Zay Jones appeared to have a terrific landing spot in the 2017 NFL draft, going to a team that was badly in need of playmakers in the passing game. The team traded Sammy Watkins and saw Anquan Boldin retire in training camp, opening up a giant opportunity right away. Additionally, in what was viewed as an ideal situation, Jones’ wide receivers coach at East Carolina, Phil McGeoghan, was hired to new head coach Sean McDermott’s staff and recommended the Bills take Jones, a Senior Bowl standout who caught an FBS-record 399 passes for the Pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 https://twitter.com/PFF/status/924316597120126976 Zay Jones has the second most "uncatchable targets" in the NFL, behind John Brown, at 46.2% of targets being uncatchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) https://twitter.com/PFF/status/924316597120126976 Zay Jones has the second most "uncatchable targets" in the NFL, behind John Brown, at 46.2% of targets being uncatchable. I dont keep stats but I thought a lot of ball thrown to he were not good passes, and dont recall him dropping easy catches. Kinda funny how so many want to throw him under the bus just because his catch to target ratio looks bad. I guess more guys need to watch the games.... Edit according to the stats he has recorded 2 drops, not great but not terrible either. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=2 Edited October 28, 2017 by artmalibu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I dont keep stats but I thought a lot of ball thrown to he were not good passes, and dont recall him dropping easy catches. Kinda funny how so many want to throw him under the bus just because his catch to target ratio looks bad. I guess more guys need to watch the games.... Edit according to the stats he has recorded 2 drops, not great but not terrible either. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=2 Those drop records are inaccurate. He has way more than 2 drops. Everyone with working eyeballs can see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 https://twitter.com/PFF/status/924316597120126976 Zay Jones has the second most "uncatchable targets" in the NFL, behind John Brown, at 46.2% of targets being uncatchable. I think this is a bullshcit stat. (no offense to you - I know you didn't make it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I think this is a bullshcit stat. (no offense to you - I know you didn't make it) Those drop records are inaccurate. He has way more than 2 drops. Everyone with working eyeballs can see that. What are the real stats? I would love to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 What are the real stats? I would love to know! How "uncatchable" is uncatchable? Who makes that decision and what criteria do they use. I'm with Gug. Stats like this are BS. Not your fault. You didn't make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 I think this is a bullshcit stat. (no offense to you - I know you didn't make it) I just thought I would throw it out there, though I'm curious what "uncatchable" is and how that's determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 What are the real stats? I would love to know! Analysis of film shows of Jones' 32 targets this season, 12 have been uncatchable balls by quarterback Tyrod Taylor, including several throwaways when Taylor was under duress. The number of uncatchable targets reached a high Sunday for Jones, who had little to no shot of hauling in four of Taylor's nine targets. That leaves 20 catchable targets for Jones. He has caught seven of them. Of the 13 that fell incomplete, defensive pressure played a role in some. Others, such as a screen pass during a Week 5 game in Cincinnati, were simply dropped. http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/29651/bills-rookie-zay-jones-believes-criticism-of-his-play-is-really-fair I would say he has more than 2 drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/29651/bills-rookie-zay-jones-believes-criticism-of-his-play-is-really-fair I would say he has more than 2 drops. From watching all the games I dont recall seeing a bunch of balls that I thought he should have catched. I swear at the TV when I see that stuff. Funny tho that some will use stats to support their opinion, but then say the stats are wrong when they dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 I dont keep stats but I thought a lot of ball thrown to he were not good passes, and dont recall him dropping easy catches. Kinda funny how so many want to throw him under the bus just because his catch to target ratio looks bad. I guess more guys need to watch the games.... Edit according to the stats he has recorded 2 drops, not great but not terrible either. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=2 If we can't get the guy catchable targets he needs to be on the bench and not on the field hurting the offense. Why is it that Taylor has far less difficulty throwing catchable targets to the other receivers and TE's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 From watching all the games I dont recall seeing a bunch of balls that I thought he should have catched. I swear at the TV when I see that stuff. Funny tho that some will use stats to support their opinion, but then say the stats are wrong when they dont. Ive seen with my own eyes more than two drops. Just give it up dude. Zay has more than two drops. I don't care what the stat you found says. Its wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 From watching all the games I dont recall seeing a bunch of balls that I thought he should have catched. I swear at the TV when I see that stuff. Funny tho that some will use stats to support their opinion, but then say the stats are wrong when they dont. Off the top of my head there are three that he should have 100% caught. The Cincinnati game where he dropped the screen pass (referenced above), the Atlanta game where he dropped the 40+ yarder before the half, and this last game against Tampa Bay where he dropped the out. That's just off the top of my head. That doesn't include 50/50 balls which he seems to come up with close to zero percent of the time. NFL receivers are supposed to be making spectacular catches. Zay needs to start doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) You put that 11 on a Bills WR and it is like a curse. Throw that number in the trash. This guy was supposed to be an unbelievably polished WR coming out with sure hands and a great possession WR. The guy looks like he has feet for hands. Get a 13 on this guy or something and bag the 11 for good. Edited October 29, 2017 by Brianmoorman4jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Ive seen with my own eyes more than two drops. Just give it up dude. Zay has more than two drops. I don't care what the stat you found says. Its wrong. Exactly the dropped passes stats is bogus. I mentioned three clearly dropped passes above so how does someone come up with a stat of only two? And these are just dropped passes, not even taking into account being out of position, not locating the ball with his eyes soon enough or failing to come up with "tough catches" near 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Off the top of my head there are three that he should have 100% caught. The Cincinnati game where he dropped the screen pass (referenced above), the Atlanta game where he dropped the 40+ yarder before the half, and this last game against Tampa Bay where he dropped the out. That's just off the top of my head. That doesn't include 50/50 balls which he seems to come up with close to zero percent of the time. NFL receivers are supposed to be making spectacular catches. Zay needs to start doing that. The TD pass that he tipped in the air and Holmes grabbed it is also a drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 From watching all the games I dont recall seeing a bunch of balls that I thought he should have catched. I swear at the TV when I see that stuff. Funny tho that some will use stats to support their opinion, but then say the stats are wrong when they dont. This is largely a matter of opinion and I respect yours. But from what my eyes have seen, the only week Zay hasn't had at least one drop was the bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 This is largely a matter of opinion and I respect yours. But from what my eyes have seen, the only week Zay hasn't had at least one drop was the bye. Ha Ha, I just spit my coffee out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittakestime Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Zay Jones needs an attitude change. The guy is too timid and not hungry enough. He gets everything handed to him because he was a McDermott pick. If this same production happened with someone from the old regime, he would have been traded for a late round pick already. When Rod Streater comes back, Jones shouldn't see the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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