Who's good with OJ Howard at 10?

[NewEra]

It's been said that the Bills liked Dak Prescott, but they thought the third round was too rich. That was dumb. The same thing happened when they wanted Russell Wilson, but thought he'd be there in the fourth round and they drafted TJ Graham instead. That was dumb. Why are fans so "whatever" about this stuff?

 

The Bills are making a habit of missing out on franchise QBs when they have been in dire need of one for forever now. The Bills FO needs to just take the QB they want even if that means taking a guy that's rated a 2nd rounder at #10. I have no problem what-so-ever at all with them doing that.

We're so whatever about this stuff because we have zero control and zero say in the matter. There's nothing we can do to influence the pick. All you're doing is raising your blood pressure by getting so upset if we don't select a qb. Sure, I'd love to pick one and have him be our starter for 12 years, but I also realize that there's a good chance that he sucks and we've accomplished nothing. This is a draft in which there are serious impact playect players that will be on the board when we pick. If we take maholmes at 10 and he sucks while we pass on Ruben Foster and turns out to be the next Ray Lewis, then we've failed. There's 2 sides to the coin. It's all a guess how it works out at this point. The Bills FO/scouts can make that decision. That's why they get paid for it, while we just sit on our couch and talk about it.

This is a scheme that got solid production out of Tony Scheffler, Owen Daniels and Joel Dreessen in the past. Spending #10 on a backup tight end would be bonkers.

Point being, he may not really be a backup. They could run double TE the majority of the time. It improves our running game and we'd have a stud pass catcher as well. He creates more mismatches than a WR would. He makes our offense less predictable and tougher to game plan for imo. Also, clay hasn't been the most durable player over his career and next year may be his last with the Bills due to his contract. If the FO thinks he's the best player on the board when we pick, I can get behind the selection, just as I can get behind the selection of many other players (Foster, Adams, hooker, Davis, Williams, Allen, Lattimore, Humphrey, jones (a bit scared about him now) or the QB they like the most).

[jeffismagic]

Drafting a tight end with a top ten pick with a QB just brought back who can't throw to the tight end currently on the team and ignoring the QB position again would be the Billsy thing to do.

[Blokestradamus]

Point being, he may not really be a backup. They could run double TE the majority of the time. It improves our running game and we'd have a stud pass catcher as well. He creates more mismatches than a WR would. He makes our offense less predictable and tougher to game plan for imo. Also, clay hasn't been the most durable player over his career and next year may be his last with the Bills due to his contract. If the FO thinks he's the best player on the board when we pick, I can get behind the selection, just as I can get behind the selection of many other players (Foster, Adams, hooker, Davis, Williams, Allen, Lattimore, Humphrey, jones (a bit scared about him now) or the QB they like the most).

 

I know that Shanahan/Kubiak have run a lot of 2-TE sets and I know that it's a position of some need. However, it's about impact with a pick that high and I just don't see how he's an impact player. Clay is going to be the #1 guy because the FO can't afford him not to be. That contract makes him the true starter by proxy.

 

So that makes Howard the #2 TE. It might well be a 'starting' role in the offense but it's not going to be a feature role. It never has been in any offense Dennison has led. The second TE has seen an average of 51.9 targets per season with Dennison as OC. That comes out as 3.24 chances per game to do something. Consider Tyrod as a 60-63% completion rate type of QB and that might end up being about 30-35 catches per season. I'm not signing off on that with the 10th pick.

[NewEra]

 

I know that Shanahan/Kubiak have run a lot of 2-TE sets and I know that it's a position of some need. However, it's about impact with a pick that high and I just don't see how he's an impact player. Clay is going to be the #1 guy because the FO can't afford him not to be. That contract makes him the true starter by proxy.

 

So that makes Howard the #2 TE. It might well be a 'starting' role in the offense but it's not going to be a feature role. It never has been in any offense Dennison has led. The second TE has seen an average of 51.9 targets per season with Dennison as OC. That comes out as 3.24 chances per game to do something. Consider Tyrod as a 60-63% completion rate type of QB and that might end up being about 30-35 catches per season. I'm not signing off on that with the 10th pick.

I get what you're saying but I don't necessarily agree that because clay is making all that money that he's the default starter and go to TE. If Howard is as good as many say and if we use our 1st rd pick on him, then they'd use him more than they would the 2nd TE on other Denison coached teams. While I'm not saying he's the guy I want, I'd be behind it because I believe they'd put him to use or they wouldn't select him. We defitnely have bigger needs, but if he's the BPA on their board; I wouldn't cry about it. I don't think we'll be contending in 2017 and would just like to add the foundation for the future. If the FO thinks he's the BOA and will be a transcendent player, I'll go along for the ride and just hope that they use him to his potential

[Chicken Boo]

I would never select a tight end inside the top 10. Never!

[Mark Vader]

are you announcing a pick this year?? If so, I think you might announce your boy "Jake Butt" whether or not his name is the one on the card.

 

You can play dumb like Warren Beatty!

 

If I get a chance to do that again, should I yell out "Two Bills Drive!", in stead of "Go Bills!"?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I would never select a tight end inside the top 10. Never!

 

....Ebron was picked at #10 and it is taking him some time to round into form even with Stafford throwing him the ball as well as having Calvin on the same field......ton of resources already tied up in TE spot to now use #10 IMO.........

[Beef Jerky]

Bills don't have any luck what so ever with TE.

[1billsfan]

Drafting a tight end with a top ten pick with a QB just brought back who can't throw to the tight end currently on the team and ignoring the QB position again would be the Billsy thing to do.

 

We don't know what the Bills will do, just be glad that this board isn't in charge of the pick. I take some comfort in the HC saying that Taylor was their starting QB "FOR NOW", and when he was first hired, he and Whaley said there was going to be a short term and LONG TERM plan at the QB position. I just wonder why fans are feeling so good at the QB position that they're fine going elsewhere at #10. The lack of urgency here is crazy, since Taylor is a know fail for their franchise QB solution. The Pats are keeping Garappolo, they have already found their next franchise QB! LOL

[jeffismagic]

 

We don't know what the Bills will do, just be glad that this board isn't in charge of the pick. I take some comfort in the HC saying that Taylor was their starting QB "FOR NOW", and when he was first hired, he and Whaley said there was going to be a short term and LONG TERM plan at the QB position. I just wonder why fans are feeling so good at the QB position that they're fine going elsewhere at #10. The lack of urgency here is crazy, since Taylor is a know fail for their franchise QB solution. The Pats are keeping Garappolo, they have already found their next franchise QB! LOL

 

My fear is that McDermott is now as empowered as Rex was. I want a real GM, not a guy that give tips to the marketing and coaching staff on players. If McDermott gets to decide on his QB will he want to draft one with a top ten pick? History says no. Most of these coaches think short term. They could care less about drafting a guy that could turn around a franchise if that guy hits his peak after they are gone. I don't want my coach driving the train on personnel. Think of Marv Levy as GM. Filling needs for positions that year like Donte Whitner and John Mccargo.

[BarleyNY]

We need help at TE. OJ Howard could certainly be that help, but in this deep of a draft at TE I'm not sure I go that route at 10.

[Figster]

OJ Howard would have an immediate impact on the football team IMO.

[NewEra]

 

We don't know what the Bills will do, just be glad that this board isn't in charge of the pick. I take some comfort in the HC saying that Taylor was their starting QB "FOR NOW", and when he was first hired, he and Whaley said there was going to be a short term and LONG TERM plan at the QB position. I just wonder why fans are feeling so good at the QB position that they're fine going elsewhere at #10. The lack of urgency here is crazy, since Taylor is a know fail for their franchise QB solution. The Pats are keeping Garappolo, they have already found their next franchise QB! LOL

Because the people hear don't make the decisions hence there will never be any "urgency". All we do is watch it play out. We have no idea what the Bills FO is thinking about the draft. What we do know is that many expects aren't giving any of these QBs a first rd grade. If we don't select one at 10 we then will know that our FO doesn't think they're worth it. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you should select a QB you don't think is worth the pick. We may draft one after the first rd. We may draft one next year. We may sign a FA next year. We may trade for one. Our 1st rd pick isn't the only way to get a QB, hence the thought of your perceived "lack of urgency".

 

Which QBs do you feel are worth the 10th pick? After my research and watching film, I'm not sure any of them are and I feel one or more of the QB candidates at 10 could be there in rd 2.

[BillsVet]

Bills don't have any luck what so ever with TE.

Who's the last one they selected in the first three rounds?

 

The Bills haven't drafted one to be bad in so long as opposed to the rest of the league.

 

(BTW It was Kevin Everett in 2005)

[1billsfan]

Because the people hear don't make the decisions hence there will never be any "urgency". All we do is watch it play out. We have no idea what the Bills FO is thinking about the draft. What we do know is that many expects aren't giving any of these QBs a first rd grade. If we don't select one at 10 we then will know that our FO doesn't think they're worth it. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you should select a QB you don't think is worth the pick. We may draft one after the first rd. We may draft one next year. We may sign a FA next year. We may trade for one. Our 1st rd pick isn't the only way to get a QB, hence the thought of your perceived "lack of urgency".

 

Which QBs do you feel are worth the 10th pick? After my research and watching film, I'm not sure any of them are and I feel one or more of the QB candidates at 10 could be there in rd 2.

 

Mahomes is worth the #10 pick, check this out...

 

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2017/2/10/14575816/patrick-mahomes-would-be-a-great-pick-at-7-for-the-chargers

 

"He avoids the pressure, somehow stays on his feet, keeps his eyes downfield and casually launches it for 30 yards. I can think of a few NFL QBs who that reminds me of, and they're all future HoFs."

 

These are the skills that separate the average and the great QBs.

[jeffismagic]

 

Mahomes is worth the #10 pick, check this out...

 

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2017/2/10/14575816/patrick-mahomes-would-be-a-great-pick-at-7-for-the-chargers

 

"He avoids the pressure, somehow stays on his feet, keeps his eyes downfield and casually launches it for 30 yards. I can think of a few NFL QBs who that reminds me of, and they're all future HoFs."

 

These are the skills that separate the average and the great QBs.

 

Great piece from that Chargers article

 

In the excellent book 'Take Your Eye Off The Ball' by Pat Kirwan, he makes the point that, as much as a quarterback wants to step into his throw, most of the time that isn't possible. Instead, the QB will have to make do with the situation given to them - a compromised pocket - and have to throw it from all sorts of positions and angles. Dan Marino says that "if I worked out a QB for an NFL team, he'd have to show me 100 throws off his back foot."

[Dr. Who]

I keep hearing very different things about Mahomes.

I like him enough I'd be happy if we take a shot.

[blacklabel]

I'm good with Howard at 10, although I think they could move back a little bit and still land him. Them signing Hyde and Poyer makes me think they'll go secondary in the second or third round as it's a very deep class for that position group and McDermott seems to have a knack for getting a lot out of secondary players who may not be the most talented.

 

Howard is a mismatch for any team and it'd be nice to see the Bills have their own "Grownkowski" type of player, finally. I like Clay but I honestly think this could be his last season here if they do add/upgrade to the TE spot. He counts for $9 million on the cap this year and next. Plus, his knees only have so much longer. He rarely practiced during the season last year but was able to go on gamedays which is gritty and gutty but them adding Logan Thomas (who they're apparently really big on) and being linked to Jared Cook this week in FA makes it clear they either want to add alongside Clay or be prepared for his departure down the line.

 

I can see Whaley offering one of those fifth round picks in a deal to move back for a team's second or something. They only have six picks and still have a fair amount of holes to fill. I'm usually a wait and see type of person regarding their draft strategy but this year I'm kind of on the train with "please trade down and get a few more picks."

[John from Riverside]

Drafting a tight end with a top ten pick with a QB just brought back who can't throw to the tight end currently on the team and ignoring the QB position again would be the Billsy thing to do.

drafting a qb in the top 10 that is not worth a top 10 pick might also be the billsy thing to do

[jeffismagic]

drafting a qb in the top 10 that is not worth a top 10 pick might also be the billsy thing to do

 

I get it. You don't want anyone challenging Tyrod. Well, the Buffalo Bills were ready to walk away and had no plan to pick up the option. You might be happy using other team's QB scraps but many Bills fans want excellence at the position.

[buffuct]

is it possible to go 2 te sets say 70% of the time i think yes because its either two wr or fb any thoughts ?

[swnybillsfan]

is it possible to go 2 te sets say 70% of the time i think yes because its either two wr or fb any thoughts ?

i like the idea of two TE sets. especially when the two TEs can block well and be a threat, not just an option, but a threat, in the passing game.

I keep hearing very different things about Mahomes.

I like him enough I'd be happy if we take a shot.

i am with ya here. i would love for the team to take a stab at the most important position in the game. but i also like the "stocking the offensive weaponry cupboard" philosophy of taking a freakish TE in the first. i guess my dream scenario is this guy howard (or one of the stud WRs) in the first, and have Mahomes fall to us in the second. but i think with whaley in "win now" mode, qb may not be a priority.

[#34fan]

Seriously, who the hell else could it be at 10??? A project QB??? -Oh great, becuz we've had excellent luck with those in recent history.

 

TAKE HOWARD, DOUG!.... Your Franchise QB, ain't in this draft.

[End The Drought]

I wouldn't hate it but would much rather get him after trading down a few spots and grabbing some more picks. Lots of needs not enough picks

[lau_chivo]

I personally, would rather get a CB in the 1st round. Lattimore or Tabor. Even trade down and get Sidney Jones possibly early in the 2nd round, now that he's hurt.

 

If we were to get an offensive player in the 1st round, I would wait until the reports of the 40 times of Davis, and Williams before we make a decision. If it turns out that Howard has the fastest time between all three (highly likely), I would pick him over the other two. Too much of a mismatch with the size and speed, and not sure we get much of a 1st round value with Corey or Williams if most balls thrown their way are contested (most of the balls thrown to them in college were contested).

[1billsfan]

drafting a qb in the top 10 that is not worth a top 10 pick might also be the billsy thing to do

 

The QB position is unlike any other in the NFL. Prescott, Carr and Wilson would have all been seen as huge reaches if they were drafted at #10. Because of this, when it comes to QBs, you have to throw the "group think" expert rankings out the window.

 

If you believe that he has the skills to become a franchise QB, then being able to draft him at #10 is a steal considering the Browns, 49ers, Bears, and Jets all need franchise QBs.

[buffuct]

i'm starting to think howard is not a bad idea at 10 and then cb in 2nd and olb in 3rd maybe kelly after that ?

[Domdab99]

Picking a QB at 10 in this draft is really stretching it. Picking Mahomes at 10 is spew.

[K-9]

If he's BPA, then yes. If not, then no. Simple.

[Domdab99]

Howard is a game changer...I'd be fine with him, Hooker, Adams, or Foster at 10. If the top CB drops that far, fine with him, too.

 

NOT a QB. Grab one in the third...maybe Webb. But not in the first round this year.

[wppete]

It's almost better to be an injured first round guy? At least you get that 5th year option. He's not that, but he might be a good option for us. Intriguing.

I agree. I wonder if Butt will be there in the 3rd?

[KRT88]

Everyone knows we have 6 picks right?

 

The goal should be to trade back and pick up extra selections. Round 2 and 3 there is lots of value at WR, CD, TE, OL all positions of need. If we needed a DE or LB desperately, well this draft has limited depth,

[BarleyNY]

I personally, would rather get a CB in the 1st round. Lattimore or Tabor. Even trade down and get Sidney Jones possibly early in the 2nd round, now that he's hurt.

 

If we were to get an offensive player in the 1st round, I would wait until the reports of the 40 times of Davis, and Williams before we make a decision. If it turns out that Howard has the fastest time between all three (highly likely), I would pick him over the other two. Too much of a mismatch with the size and speed, and not sure we get much of a 1st round value with Corey or Williams if most balls thrown their way are contested (most of the balls thrown to them in college were contested).

I'd be surprised if CB were in the mix. McD's Cover 3 doesn't require a big investment in the position. No need to go after a CB to play bail at 10.

[boyst]

I've tried hard to want this. I can't. Its not a good idea

[lau_chivo]

I'd be surprised if CB were in the mix. McD's Cover 3 doesn't require a big investment in the position. No need to go after a CB to play bail at 10.

Not sure I agree. This past season, McDermott's defense really took a tumble after losing Josh Norman. They dropped from 6th in total defense in 2015, to 21st this past year.

 

Not saying the drop is directly related to Norman's departure, but I'm sure it played a major role.

[BillsFan17]

First round tight ends seldom if ever pan out. Especially ones in the top half of the first.

 

You don't take a tight end high in the draft.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

There is something about his name that bothers me

Like Yastremzski?

[dave mcbride]

Not sure I agree. This past season, McDermott's defense really took a tumble after losing Josh Norman. They dropped from 6th in total defense in 2015, to 21st this past year.

Not saying the drop is directly related to Norman's departure, but I'm sure it played a major role.

They dropped from second to tenth overall using football outsiders' defensive DVOA stat -- a much better measure than simple yards/pts. Regardless, they did slip a bit.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Think it would be a wasted pick since Taylor doesn't throw over the middle of the field.

That's for sure.

[NewEra]

 

Mahomes is worth the #10 pick, check this out...

 

http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2017/2/10/14575816/patrick-mahomes-would-be-a-great-pick-at-7-for-the-chargers

 

"He avoids the pressure, somehow stays on his feet, keeps his eyes downfield and casually launches it for 30 yards. I can think of a few NFL QBs who that reminds me of, and they're all future HoFs."

 

These are the skills that separate the average and the great QBs.

I'm pretty sure if it was as cut and dry as you say it is than he'd be the first pick in the draft and him lasting til 10 would never happen.