Keep Rex, Fire Whaley....... by a 36 Year Bills Fan

[coldstorage5]

Hello, I feel I need to share my back ground. I come on to this site 365 days a year. I rarely write. Im a 36 year Bills fan from southern NY. Ive lived in NYC for 25 years and now I live in westchester county for the last 21. In addition Ive been coaching HS football for 20 years, and Ive been a head coach for the last 5.

With all this talk of people getting fired, if you are going to fire and blame someone lets look at the facts.

 

This is what we all know.

Rex is 8-8 + 7-7= 15 and 15.

The Bills have a bottom 1/3 QB in Tyrod. In the 32 starters he is likely # 20-22.

They had a below average Rec group where their best player ( Watkins has been gimp for 2 seasons), What makes this bad is that the rest of the core is below average and when Watkins went down, the Core is the worst in Pro Football. How they can such an terrible group bobbles me. They knew Watkins has not right and they didn't sign other guys and let 7/11 ( Hogan) go. I get not paying Hogan but if your #1 is hurt you gotta add depth.

 

O line is Above. ( Rex's pick up of the incognito for 3 years for 15 million was great), Yes that was Rex's call. Rex pushed for it

The front 7 is solid and in the top 8-10 in the NFL.

The secondary is below average.

Specialists are above average and a strength.

 

You add this up and the job Rex and his staff has done warrants more time. The roster is not a championship roster. its a 7-9 to 9-7 roster, Rex has done his job. The players have not quit on him and play hard for him.

Now you look at the great teams, the Packers, the Steelers the Patriots they all have the same thing in common. They draft well.

 

Whaley has done a poor job.

Ej with a 16 pick. ( yes he is responsible for that pick)

Watkins was a reach and to use 2 #1's for him has terrible. Beckham and Evans were taken ahead of him and are much much better. Whaley wante to make a slash and gamble, They did and lost, Spending those 2 pickas has been a disaster. They could have waited and got Beckham or Evans ( who even when healthy are better than Watkins) But just to make a splash is so inept. The good teams never do that.

This past years draft... Well to draft a guy that was injured. Terrible.

The Bills only have like 20 something players on the team that was drafted. the Packers are in the 40's.

 

Blowing the last 4 #1 draft picks has been a huge problem that I dont see the press or fans really taliking about. All in the top 16.

That Ej pick was fire-able alone.

Ej= Fail

Watkins, im sorry, 2 #1's = fail.

Lawson= fail.

The Bills need to stick with Rex. Redo Tyrods contract or cut him, and if they fire anyone it should be Whaley. The Bills cant become the Browns Hiring and firing every year or other year.

If anyone deserves to get Fired Its Whaley

Edited December 22, 2016 by coldstorage5

[fansince88]

I was going to but I cant. It just bobbles my mind!

[PolishDave]

 

That Ej pick was fire-able alone.

Ej= Fail

 

 

You make some fair points.

 

Wish you would drop the EJ thing though. People hold that against Whaley like it was the ultimate mistake. It wasn't. And I don't like EJ as a QB at all.

 

Here is why it wasn't a mistake - Nix (because of his debacle with the Fitz situation) put the Bills in a position where they HAD to draft a quarterback. Fans were screaming to draft a QB. The entire QB situation was a giant cluster flop. And it was not Whaley's fault. He walked into that situation here.

 

So he made a decision about what QB he thought was the best in that draft and then went after that QB. Ok. EJ didn't pan out. Neither did any of the other QB's in that draft. So it didn't matter which QB he would have drafted. They were all misses that year.

 

They gave EJ enough time to see he wasn't going to cut it. So he is riding the pine in favor of a more talented guy now.

 

Whaley handled that QB situation with EJ as good as anyone could have expected.

 

Can we just quit whining about that draft for Christ's sake?

[K-Apps]

If you fired Whaley, new GM isn't keeping Rex around. Only reason Rex lasted as long as he did with the Jets was that Idzik fiasco Woody Johnson mandated that new GM after Tannebaum had to keep Rex. If you want that situation done again in Buffalo be my guest.

[gr8billsfan]

I posted awhile ago now, Fire the Front Office. End of Story. That includes Russ Brandon, Doug Whaley, and Rex Ryan. Boom. Next?

[Bangarang]

So you fire Whaley and hire a GM who won't be able to pick his own HC? Sounds like something the Bills would do.

[BillsFan130]

I agree with you for the most part. I would agree with your main point that Whaley is more of the problem than Rex

[Dragonborn10]

OP what about the defense?????

[flutie5]

Keep Whaley dump Rex

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I posted awhile ago now, Fire the Front Office. End of Story. That includes Russ Brandon, Doug Whaley, and Rex Ryan. Boom. Next?

 

I would be OK with this

[BobbyC81]

If you fired Whaley, new GM isn't keeping Rex around. Only reason Rex lasted as long as he did with the Jets was that Idzik fiasco Woody Johnson mandated that new GM after Tannebaum had to keep Rex. If you want that situation done again in Buffalo be my guest.

The Bills organizational structure has both the GM and head coach reporting to the owners. The GM gets the players while the head coach coaches with those players.

 

If this structure is maintained, firing the GM has no connection to the coach. It is likely that Whaley had input in the hire of Rex but the decision was ultimately with the Pegulas. It would be the same if Rex were fired and a new head coach chosen.

 

Now, if Whaley were fired, I don't know how receptive any prospective GM hires would be to this structure.

[Manther]

Coldstorage5, the original poster, seems to be suggesting keep Rex because he is .500 and he has assemble a good roster. And, to fire Whaley.

 

Keep the HC and Fire the GM because the roster is good. Hmmmm.

 

Not tackling the .500 thing other than our schedule has been very Bills friendly the last 30 games. With our schedule the last two years we should have been 10-6 twice and that includes playing the Pats 4 times. We have played the 3 worst divisions these two year....squandered opportunities.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

You make some fair points.

 

Wish you would drop the EJ thing though. People hold that against Whaley like it was the ultimate mistake. It wasn't. And I don't like EJ as a QB at all.

 

Here is why it wasn't a mistake - Nix (because of his debacle with the Fitz situation) put the Bills in a position where they HAD to draft a quarterback. Fans were screaming to draft a QB. The entire QB situation was a giant cluster flop. And it was not Whaley's fault. He walked into that situation here.

 

So he made a decision about what QB he thought was the best in that draft and then went after that QB. Ok. EJ didn't pan out. Neither did any of the other QB's in that draft. So it didn't matter which QB he would have drafted. They were all misses that year.

 

They gave EJ enough time to see he wasn't going to cut it. So he is riding the pine in favor of a more talented guy now.

 

Whaley handled that QB situation with EJ as good as anyone could have expected.

 

Can we just quit whining about that draft for Christ's sake?

Also EVERYONE forget that years first round pick =EJ+Shady a bonefide stud. That a decent haul

So you fire Whaley and hire a GM who won't be able to pick his own HC? Sounds like something the Bills would do.

And sounds like a total recipient for disaster

[Augie]

Hey, 36 is a nice starting point, hang in there. Not very concise, and slow to get to the point on such a long post. Also ignores a few important points, some are noted above. This is just not very well balanced in my opinion. I don't like Rex, but I am for another year.

[BringBackOrton]

 

You make some fair points.

 

Wish you would drop the EJ thing though. People hold that against Whaley like it was the ultimate mistake. It wasn't. And I don't like EJ as a QB at all.

 

Here is why it wasn't a mistake - Nix (because of his debacle with the Fitz situation) put the Bills in a position where they HAD to draft a quarterback. Fans were screaming to draft a QB. The entire QB situation was a giant cluster flop. And it was not Whaley's fault. He walked into that situation here.

 

So he made a decision about what QB he thought was the best in that draft and then went after that QB. Ok. EJ didn't pan out. Neither did any of the other QB's in that draft. So it didn't matter which QB he would have drafted. They were all misses that year.

 

They gave EJ enough time to see he wasn't going to cut it. So he is riding the pine in favor of a more talented guy now.

 

Whaley handled that QB situation with EJ as good as anyone could have expected.

 

Can we just quit whining about that draft for Christ's sake?

Whaley cut Fitz. No.

[hondo in seattle]

The roster is not a championship roster. its a 7-9 to 9-7 roster, Rex has done his job.

 

Hmmm... You say Whaley has done a poor job but you also say this is a 7-9 to 9-7 roster.

 

So, in effect, both Whaley and Rex have been mediocre.

 

Whaley has built a .500 team and so far Rex has led them to a .500 record.

 

Therein lies the problem. Neither is bad enough to fire. Neither is good enough to build a playoff team.

 

I say give them both another year. If we miss the playoffs again, hire a new GM who has the authority to hire a new HC.

[chris heff]

Have you seen how Rex's defense has been gashed?

[transient]

Have you seen how Rex's defense has been gashed?

Are you making fun of someone who quite possibly, if I read that correctly, only has one eye?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Can you think of a situation where the GM was fired, the HC kept, and it worked out well?

[transient]

Can you think of a situation where the GM was fired, the HC kept, and it worked out well?

Pittsburgh with Donahoe and Cowher.

[SlamnSam]

Hey I agree with you. I don't know why these people love Whaley and there is no way you fire Rex. This team is a very weak NFL team. I'm sorry I love the Bills but this is a flat out poorly organized group of players. Cut Whaley and good things will happen.

[fansince88]

Coldstorage5, the original poster, seems to be suggesting keep Rex because he is .500 and he has assemble a good roster. And, to fire Whaley.

 

Keep the HC and Fire the GM because the roster is good. Hmmmm.

 

Not tackling the .500 thing other than our schedule has been very Bills friendly the last 30 games. With our schedule the last two years we should have been 10-6 twice and that includes playing the Pats 4 times. We have played the 3 worst divisions these two year....squandered opportunities.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

fire both

[Chandler#81]

36 years? Snot-nosed whippersnapper..

 

I was a Johnny Green and Archie Matsos fan.

 

Anyway, No. Rex must go. Whaley stays.

[All_Pro_Bills]

The Bills organizational structure has both the GM and head coach reporting to the owners. The GM gets the players while the head coach coaches with those players.

 

If this structure is maintained, firing the GM has no connection to the coach. It is likely that Whaley had input in the hire of Rex but the decision was ultimately with the Pegulas. It would be the same if Rex were fired and a new head coach chosen.

 

Now, if Whaley were fired, I don't know how receptive any prospective GM hires would be to this structure.

This is a good point. Until they 'fix' the structure of the organization I'm not sure there's any value in replacing the people every 2 or 3 years. I don't care if its Whaley and Ryan or Polian and Lambardi.

 

The GM needs to have total control of the football side of the team. Deciding on the coach, managing the scouts and the draft, deciding what free agents to target, determining the identity of the team and the long-term approach to offensive and defensive scheme. Everything needs to fit and work together.

 

When he looks for a coach its got to be one that fits and embraces his overall approach. We have a basic approach we take to offense and defense. Can you make it work? I don't want to put a plan in place to build a team around a passing offense and a 4-3 defense and then hire a coach who emphasizes the run on offense and a 3-4 defense.

 

This organization is a mess and ownership's job #1 is to fix it before moving more people in and out of jobs where they are set up for failure when they walk in the door.

Edited December 22, 2016 by All_Pro_Bills

[jms62]

Simple. Give this thing one more year and if it doesnt work clear cut the entire organization. Doing that this year we risk McCoy's shelf life running out before we get competitive. Draft some WR's maybe fire Thruman and have a come to Jesus with Rex about his defense, bring in a D coordinator and let him run the show.

[Big Turk]

Hello, I feel I need to share my back ground. I come on to this site 365 days a year. I rarely write. Im a 36 year Bills fan from southern NY. Ive lived in NYC for 25 years and now I live in westchester county for the last 21. In addition Ive been coaching HS football for 20 years, and Ive been a head coach for the last 5.

 

This is what we all know.

Rex is 8-8 + 7-7= 15 and 15.

The Bills have a bottom 1/3 QB in Tyrod. In the 32 starters he is likely # 20-22.

They had a below average Rec group where their best player ( Watkins has been gimp for 2 seasons), What makes this bad is that the rest of the core is below average and when Watkins went down, the Core is the worst in Pro Football. How they can such an terrible group bobbles me. They knew Watkins has not right and they didn't sign other guys and let 7/11 ( Hogan) go. I get not paying Hogan but if your #1 is hurt you gotta add depth.

 

O line is Above. ( Rex's pick up of the incognito for 3 years for 15 million was great), Yes that was Rex's call. Rex pushed for it

The front 7 is solid and in the top 8-10 in the NFL.

The secondary is below average.

Specialists are above average and a strength.

 

You add this up and the job Rex and his staff has done warrants more time. The roster is not a championship roster. its a 7-9 to 9-7 roster, Rex has done his job. The players have not quit on him and play hard for him.

Now you look at the great teams, the Packers, the Steelers the Patriots they all have the same thing in common. They draft well.

 

Whaley has done a poor job.

Ej with a 16 pick. ( yes he is responsible for that pick)

Watkins was a reach and to use 2 #1's for him has terrible. Beckham and Evans were taken ahead of him and are much much better. Whaley wante to make a slash and gamble, They did and lost, Spending those 2 pickas has been a disaster. They could have waited and got Beckham or Evans ( who even when healthy are better than Watkins) But just to make a splash is so inept. The good teams never do that.

This past years draft... Well to draft a guy that was injured. Terrible.

The Bills only have like 20 something players on the team that was drafted. the Packers are in the 40's.

 

Blowing the last 4 #1 draft picks has been a huge problem that I dont see the press or fans really taliking about. All in the top 16.

That Ej pick was fire-able alone.

Ej= Fail

Watkins, im sorry, 2 #1's = fail.

Lawson= fail.

The Bills need to stick with Rex. Redo Tyrods contract or cut him, and if they fire anyone it should be Whaley. The Bills cant become the Browns Hiring and firing every year or other year.

Think about who has done a worse job, Rex or Whaley.

In my eye its clearly Whaley

How do you feel about Julio Jones? Is he a fail too as the best WR in football for the past several years?

 

He would have been judged a fail too after 3 years with the same injury as Watkins and eerily similar numbers.

 

You also conveniently ignore the multitude of good players Whaley has brought in via trade, free agency, and waiver wire/practice squad pickups...many of whom have gone to the pro bowl.

 

Sounds like you want to write the narrative to fit your opinion instead of looking at the big picture. Maybe you and Tim Graham are long lost brothers...

[jms62]

How do you feel about Julio Jones? Is he a fail too as the best WR in football for the past several years?

He would have been judged a fail too after 3 years with the same injury as Watkins and eerily similar numbers.

You also conveniently ignore the multitude of good players Whaley has brought in via trade, free agency, and waiver wire/practice squad pickups...many of whom have gone to the pro bowl.

Sounds like you want to write the narrative to fit your opinion instead of looking at the big picture. Maybe you and Tim Graham are long lost brothers...

So because Julio Jones turned it around Watkins will too? Seems like just refuting his post by kicking the can down the road a bit. Also Whaley has brought in some good players BUT NOT ENOUGH to get us to the playoffs. Edited December 22, 2016 by jms62

[Big Turk]

So because Julio Jones turned it around Watkins will too? Seems like just refuting his post by kicking the can down the road a bit.

Same injury, similar stats, undeniable game breaking talent. Not the type of players you let walk away. And whose fault is it when the players who ranked 4th on D under Schwartz rank 17th and 22nd under Rex? That's his fault too when the coach gets less out of his players?

 

Anyone who has worked somewhere long enough has seen the difference between what good and bad managers are able to accomplish with the same employees...it can be a night and day difference

 

You don't think with one of highest scoring offenses we have ever had with even marginal improvements on defense we would have made the playoffs both years?

Edited December 22, 2016 by matter2003

[Toledo Bill]

They DID quit against The steelers

[Webster Guy]

Hey I agree with you. I don't know why these people love Whaley and there is no way you fire Rex. This team is a very weak NFL team. I'm sorry I love the Bills but this is a flat out poorly organized group of players. Cut Whaley and good things will happen.

Whaley picked up 2 LB's off the waiver wire that will both be in the pro bowl this year. Shady and TD Mike a top notch duo. Hughes pick up was excellent GM work. Got Tyrod for nothing, got Richie for nothing. With the exception of safety and RT I think I'd grade Whaley at an A.

 

I think the OP is confused on Mike Evans, he was gone by the time we took Sammy no? You have to admit that Watkins was dominant and durable in college, and was probably the best WR in the league for the 2nd half of last year. I liked the pick even though it cost us ONE pick the following year. Can't pin Sammy's injuries on Whaley, he had no way of predicting this.

 

Shaq is still a baby we don't know anything about what kind of pro he will be until next season.

 

Oh and the Patriots don't draft well at all. Look it up.

[filthymcnasty08]

Same injury, similar stats, undeniable game breaking talent. Not the type of players you let walk away. And whose fault is it when the players who ranked 4th on D under Schwartz rank 17th and 22nd under Rex? That's his fault too when the coach gets less out of his players?

 

Anyone who has worked somewhere long enough has seen the difference between what good and bad managers are able to accomplish with the same employees...it can be a night and day difference

 

You don't think with one of highest scoring offenses we have ever had with even marginal improvements on defense we would have made the playoffs both years?

I love that each individual aspect of what is wrong here is Rex, yet player success under Rex gets pointed to Whaley. Someone else even criticized our drafting from Clemson in the first round as "Rex's Pick". Because his son goes there ..not because we have been scouting and drafting high almost exclusively from the South (and now 4 #1's to Clemson alone) for the last decade.

 

So...Rex get's no credit for the offense you reference as the HC? Lorax is great this year...because Whaley? Or is he more the type that fits Rex's defense ? You can't have your cake and....well you know. As far as Brown - great pick up...only because we had to get him because our 2nd rounder went down for the season . He wasn't a planned acquisition nor was he an assembled piece to Whaley's puzzle of a roster. He was an emergency pickup that worked out well. He was also coached.

 

Whaley has made some nice moves that have worked out as individual players. He has failed to assemble a winning roster, that of a team. He has failed to address the starting QB, depth at skill positions, Safety, RT...and, with regard to certain picks and cap room, overspent to do so. EJ is on him, Nix(and Whaley) had Russell Wilson on the board with a 3 in hand....and drafted speed.

 

We all have 20/20 hindsight with regard to Sammy, BUT, when you have a rare talent like Khalil Mack right there playing for UB and he wants to play in Buffalo - AND the most WR-loaded draft of all time... When you are the Bills you cannot waste those. When they first announced the trade...I would have bet my life it was for Mack. Made too much sense.

 

We keep thinking that high-pick diva's treated like Gods on their campuses are going to come from insane College programs in warm climates to live in WNY, be unselfish, not want money, not want lifestyle, not want the ball or simply shut up when we don't target them in the offense...and lose games. All things they have never had to do.

 

To me, if you are the GM of the Buffalo Bills, you have to know and understand your market vs. the rest of the league and make your moves accordingly. Look where drafting speed has gotten us. I think our scouts need to go with Whaley.

 

As for Rex, firing him is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Because if I see Russ in the war room on draft day 2017 with Doug and their poop-eating grins, I am going to know they again mortgaged the future in some goofy trade probably not for a franchise QB....and it won't matter who's coaching this team. I think Rex can get the job done with more of the right players. If you want a new coach, let the new GM pick him. Seen enough from DW.

[HT02]

 

You make some fair points.

 

Wish you would drop the EJ thing though. People hold that against Whaley like it was the ultimate mistake. It wasn't. And I don't like EJ as a QB at all.

 

Here is why it wasn't a mistake - Nix (because of his debacle with the Fitz situation) put the Bills in a position where they HAD to draft a quarterback. Fans were screaming to draft a QB. The entire QB situation was a giant cluster flop. And it was not Whaley's fault. He walked into that situation here.

 

So he made a decision about what QB he thought was the best in that draft and then went after that QB. Ok. EJ didn't pan out. Neither did any of the other QB's in that draft. So it didn't matter which QB he would have drafted. They were all misses that year.

 

They gave EJ enough time to see he wasn't going to cut it. So he is riding the pine in favor of a more talented guy now.

 

Whaley handled that QB situation with EJ as good as anyone could have expected.

 

Can we just quit whining about that draft for Christ's sake?

I agree with most of your points. I was okay with the pick, there are no guarantees in the draft. Where Whaley bears significant blame is that there has never been "plan b". The back-up QB's were always selected to ensure that EJ would likely be the best (or least worse) choice, Why didn't he have plans b and c in case EJ or lately Tyrod didn't develop as planned. The Seahawks did it when everyone thought Matt Flynn would be getting the starting job they still drafted Wilson. The Redskins did it when they drafted Cousins in the same draft as RG3. When the Cowboys had no QB but drafted Aikman. It drives me crazy when I hear people talk about "not damaging the young players confidence". If competition damages a QB's confidence, he probably doesn't belong in the NFL. To summarize the reason Whaley deserves to be held accountable is for not being prepared with options.

[jms62]

Same injury, similar stats, undeniable game breaking talent. Not the type of players you let walk away. And whose fault is it when the players who ranked 4th on D under Schwartz rank 17th and 22nd under Rex? That's his fault too when the coach gets less out of his players?

Anyone who has worked somewhere long enough has seen the difference between what good and bad managers are able to accomplish with the same employees...it can be a night and day difference

You don't think with one of highest scoring offenses we have ever had with even marginal improvements on defense we would have made the playoffs both years?

If our defense simply stayed the same as before Rex we would be Super Bowl contenders.

[PO16FFS]

Lets do the math:

 

BIlls have number #9 and Cleveland #4. Bills swap picks and draft Sammy. They also give first round draft pick the next year.

 

So, lets take it slowly. Had they not made the trade, they would have drafted in the first round and would have had their first round pick the next year. Howevery, they swapped First round picks and traded first round the next year.

 

 

LETS DO THE MATH: They gave up 1 FIRST ROUND PICK! NOT 2. Not sure why its so hard to understand this.

[MikeSpeed]

I like Whaley, but if he has to go to get rid of Rex then bub bye. This is a passing league and Rex wants nothing to do with passing because he is clueless on how a pass first O is suppose to work. Over this year of this drought we've has the #1 special teams, #1 defense, and now for the last 2 years we've had one of the best ranked running team. What have we not had is a highly ranked passing team. The closest we've been was with Bledsoe which is the closest we've been to the playoffs in 17 years.

The sad part is I don't think Rex would throw the ball even if Brady was our QB he is that dedicated to running it.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Can you think of a situation where the GM was fired, the HC kept, and it worked out well?

Detroit Lions (9-5)

In: General manager Bob Quinn

Staying: Coach Jim Caldwell

Out: General manager Martin Mayhew, president Tom Lewand

[CookieG]

Whaley cut Fitz. No.

Buddy cut Fitz in March of that year.

 

They had one QB on their roster at the time of the draft, Tavaris Jackson.

 

They hadn't drafted a QB since Trent Edwards in 2007.

 

I still don't know how a team with Trent Edwards 5 years without drafting another.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I was going to but I cant. It just bobbles my mind!

As a fan since day 1 of this franchise, plus 1.

[Pete]

Keep Whaley dump Rex

This. Whaley has a few big misses( I don't blame him for the Sammy trade-if Sammy can get healthy- he might very well be Julio Jones like)- Kujo and Shaq come to mind. But he has done great at finding great value in draft, trades, and free agency-Zack, Lorax, Seymour, Incognito, Tate, Shady, Hughes, etc. IMO Rex"build a bully" Ryan is a clown that squandered some of the best talent in the NFL(7 probowlers this year for the Bills is testament. As is the demand for Bills free agents this offseason. Whaley stocked the kitchen. Rex is no chef. See you Rex. Get Whaley a real coach