Dallas Offered Us Their 2nd and 3rd for #19

[The Big Cat]

 

There's as big difference between a projected top 20 player jumping into top 10 and a top 15 player falling out of the first round (which was NOT going to happen with Shaq Lawson).

 

He wouldn't have made it past the Jets @ 20

[John from Riverside]

 

And by the way - most of the draftniks had left Floyd out of the top ten, but I nailed that one. So sometimes I'm right...

It is interesting how you are bragging about Floyd (did those teams get it wrong now?) yet berating the bills about Lawson (so now the bills are wrong)

 

There were legit concerns about lack of lower body strength on Floyd (like with what happened with Mingo)

 

Shaq Lawson has a legit mans body......lower body power which converts power to speed on the pass rush.......athletic.....and relentless.

 

Projections are Orakpo or Suggs.....either of which I would totally take.

[Jauronimo]

 

Not only was it fine...In this specific case I think it was an advantage...

Agreed. Having some direct insider knowledge is usually beneficial.

[ndirish1978]

 

"Trashing"? Holy crap some of you people are sensitive. I don't like the pick, I would've made the trade. I'm not a fan of Shaq Lawson at 19, or anywhere really - I don't love the player. He's a great leader and had a productive college career but he's not athletic enough for my liking and I think he's fairly scheme-specific. If Rex Ryan is sent packing next offseason and a 4-3 coordinator replaces him, I don't see much fit for Lawson. And even with Ryan's defense in place, I wouldn't spend the 19th pick on an edge-setter who is not an elite athlete or pass rusher. I'm really sorry that offends you so much. I'm certainly willing to be wrong... are you?

 

I think it's a little strange that you'd be surprised that you're getting flack. If you make sarcastic comments about why the pick was made then you open yourself up to similarly non-logic-based criticism. If you have made the argument you made above at the beginning of the post I doubt people would be so annoyed.

[Steve Billieve]

I think that argument wasn't made initially because its combining two issues that are not directly related. One is the value of the pick made and the other is the value of trading down. Isn't this thread suppose to be about the value of trading down? And if so I think we'd all like to know who Coach would take with those picks.

[NoSaint]

I'm curious how big the gap is between Lawson and "an elite athlete"

 

Is he the absolute best athlete in the NFL? No. But I think he's closer than the perception people get whe reading the term.

[mob16151]

You don't move out of the middle of the first, unless your getting a first in return.

[JoeF]

 

Yeah, sorry, coming in short on value in the middle of the draft while trying to get your QB of the future just isnt going to get it done. Dallas needed to be over value in their offer by 85 points, not 85 short.

 

Why should the Bills lose out and do any other team a favor there?

85 is a high 4th round pick...Dallas came with no game -- this needed to be their 2,3,4 this year and next year's 2 for the Bills 1, 6 this year or something like that....it had to be a no brainer....Jerry must think Whaley is dumb..

[BuffaloHokie13]

85 is a high 4th round pick...Dallas came with no game -- this needed to be their 2,3,4 this year and next year's 2 for the Bills 1, 6 this year or something like that....it had to be a no brainer....Jerry must think Whaley is dumb..

Jerry: Hey Doug, put Buddy on the line. I've got a heckuva deal for him.

Whaley: *click*

[PromoTheRobot]

I think Dallas will go very deep in the playoffs, so that 1st rounder would be in the high 20s at least

Really? From 4-12 to "very deep in the playoffs?"

[Jauronimo]

Really? From 4-12 to "very deep in the playoffs?"

If their starting QB stays healthy that's very possible. They were a playoff team the year before.

[GunnerBill]

If their starting QB stays healthy that's very possible. They were a playoff team the year before.

 

1-11 without Romo, 3-1 with him.

 

I agree with you. If they keep him healthy and with Elliott in the backfield they should win the East. Deep into the play-offs? Less sure.

[3rdand12]

We still would have Ragland maybe, but no Shaq. He might have gone to the JESTS, Cinci, or Pitt.

Could have had Jack or Jaylon Smith. Ouch! Rags might have gone to Jax.

I don't see much at the top of the 3rd between where Dallas and The Bills picked that is very exciting though.

Keep in mind Bills did not know about Smith or Jack at that time.

[3rdand12]

 

I am very concerned that the Clemson connection swayed the pick.

If you think of it as greater insight into Clemson players and program , would you feel any better?

 

here is my simple opinion.

Bills got the player at the top of their boards later than they thought, and then again in the second round ( after trading up even )

Awesome!

Cowboys should have supplied Bills with an offer they could not refuse. Whaley stayed disciplined and did his thing.

 

Hindsight is only for light dialogue here, not taking sides or being harsh. Draft coulda gone bazillion ways. and I was very surprised how it went personally.

 

I found it humorous that Stephen Jones told the Old nut bucket NO ! , again.

Bills win.

[NoSaint]

Really? From 4-12 to "very deep in the playoffs?"

Yes, really, if their pro bowl qb and all pro wr play they likely are a playoff team

Edited May 2, 2016 by NoSaint

[3rdand12]

I'm glad some of you aren't the GM

Some of us are glad we aren't the GM too.

I would suck.

[atlbillsfan1975]

a two and three this year and next years two would seem very reasonable.

 

having said that, i am happy with who the Bills have, And there is no way of knowing who the Bills would of been left with if they did make the trade. A draft is like the Butterfly Effect, one pick sets a serious of events in motion.

[GunnerBill]

Yes, really, if their pro bowl qb and all pro wr play they likely are a playoff team

Especially in that division.

[Alaska Darin]

its the reverse of the JP Losman trade we gave up a #2 and next years #1 to Dallas. This trade still "haunts" me

It should. It cost us a shot at Aaron Rogers.

[todd]

No way the Bills should give up the 19th pick for a 2nd and 3rd. That's an insulting offer. Maybe a 1st next year and a 2nd.

[P51]

The deal wouldn't have been for 2,3 and 2017 1st for 19. It would have been 34 and 2017 1st rounder for 19

 

Agreed.

 

The deal would have been totally lopsided if it were Dallas's 2016 2,3 and 2017 1st for 19, in favor of Buffalo, while nice for the Bills, I dont see anyone doing that in this situation.

 

Based on what? (#not(bold!)mad/inquisitive, #missingsweetener)

 

The history here a la the 2004 trade between the Bills and Cowboys had very similar circumstances. That trade was 43, 144 (2nd and 5th rounders) and a future 1st to move up to 22. The comp. here is 34 and 101 (2nd and 4th (Dallas has no 5th or 6th)) and a future 1st to move up to 19, with Buffalo likely throwing in a later pick to even it out a little possibly, or Dallas dipping into the 2017 draft pool further to compensate for the lack of a 5th in 2016.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

Especially considering Aaron Rodgers was available when we should have picked in the first round of the next years draft.

 

 

I threw-up a little reading that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, just kidding...I threw-up a lot.

[PromoTheRobot]

Yes, really, if their pro bowl qb and all pro wr play they likely are a playoff team

I'm skeptical of any team that goes to pieces after losing one player. For Dallas to be that bad, they might have been 7-9 or 8-8 with Romo.

[GunnerBill]

I'm skeptical of any team that goes to pieces after losing one player. For Dallas to be that bad, they might have been 7-9 or 8-8 with Romo.

 

They had Brandon Weeden and Matt Cassel at QB...... they were also without Bryant for a stretch too it must be said.

[starrymessenger]

Yeah, sorry, coming in short on value in the middle of the draft while trying to get your QB of the future just isnt going to get it done. Dallas needed to be over value in their offer by 85 points, not 85 short.

 

Why should the Bills lose out and do any other team a favor there?

Exactly. So Dallas was prepared to part with a second and a third in exchange for moving back into the middle of the first to pick a player who they project as a potential franchise guy. Thats a ridiculous offer. Not to mention that the Bills themselves were rumoured to have an interest.

[NoSaint]

I'm skeptical of any team that goes to pieces after losing one player. For Dallas to be that bad, they might have been 7-9 or 8-8 with Romo.

if you think a healthy romo and dez are only worth 3 wins last year.... well, you do you. we can simply agree to disagree.

[TheFunPolice]

Really? From 4-12 to "very deep in the playoffs?"

 

Yup. They lost Romo and Dez for most of the season. Yeah, Dez played hurt a bit but Romo is just that damn good.

 

I used to love to bash Romo (and who doesn't!) but the fact is that he is an elite QB. With him in there Dallas could score 35+ points at any time.

 

I've seen so many games over the years where Romo starts slow then literally becomes unstoppable passing the ball. Without him they had no real offensive threat.

 

They were a "drop" away from being in the NFC Title game in the 2014 season. They did lose Murray, but other than that their team came back mostly intact. Then Romo broke his collar bone TWICE and Dez went down, so subtract the star QB, star WR, and star RB from the offense pretty much all at once. It's little surprise that they lost as much as they did.

 

Now they have another star RB, a healthy Romo, and a healthy Dez. I expect them to go deep in the NFC playoffs.

Edited May 3, 2016 by TheFunPolice

[Alphadawg7]

 

The general consensus was that this was a deep draft and that rounds 2-4 was the "sweet spot." The Bills have a ton of needs that they had to ignore in this draft because of a lack of picks, including safety, RT, guard, cornerback, and a slot WR. It's simply irresponsible IMO to sit tight and take Lawson at 19, then trade two #4s for Ragland (granted one was next year's), instead of getting Ragland at 34 (or Jack better yet) and three other good young players who could round out the roster. That kind of thinking ("he was the guy we wanted") cost Buddy Nix his job. Unfortunately, I think the Lawson pick will cost Whaley his job.

 

Hold on...Nobody expected Ragland to slide so far, so to sit there on draft day and think we can just trade down and get Ragland in the 2nd would have been a fools mentality. This draft was weird where some top first round graded players slid well into the 2nd with several surprise first round selections and early 2nd round selections. You can not base your draft strategy that the guy you COVET is going to slide 17 more spots when he was both the guy we targeted at 19, and a guy fully expected to go in the teens to mid 20's. Not to mention, a guy expected to go before us who we coveted even more was sitting there, so you don't trade down when one of your top targets falls to you that also fills a big team need.

 

So people evaluating the trade can ONLY evaluate it as we sat at our draft slot of when we picked, not post draft. Not to mention, the draft completely changes at pick 20 had we made that trade, meaning there is absolutely no way to know who we could have taken in the 2nd because now the draft is absolutely different from that pick on once the trade happens.

 

So again, this notion that we could have gotten this or that means literally zero because there is no truth to that statement what so ever given the draft would not have gone the same way pick by pick if we make that trade, everything thing changes including other trades that would not have happened between other teams had Dallas and us made the trade.

 

We had an amazing draft, got 2 of the highest rated Defensive prospects in the draft, both expected sure fire first rounders, and some other quality pieces at great value following those picks. Why people are not satisfied is beyond me.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Alphadawg7

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

I threw-up a little reading that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, just kidding...I threw-up a lot.

 

Dont worry. If it makes you feel any better, the Bills organization and coaching at that time would have broken Rodgers and he would have been out of the league in a couple years, just like Losman. There is a big difference going to an established staff, with an established system and scheme, and a HoF QB to sit behind for 3 years versus the bush league show we were running back then.

[Billsmovinup]

 

I'm not. If you assume Ragland at 34, they wouldn't have had to spend two 4s to move up. So that's FOUR PLAYERS we could've drafted instead of one Shaq Lawson.

 

But he's Rex's son's friend though, so...

Four mediocre players instead of one really good one who fits your scheme perfectly. No thanks

[boyst]

 

"Trashing"? Holy crap some of you people are sensitive. I don't like the pick, I would've made the trade. I'm not a fan of Shaq Lawson at 19, or anywhere really - I don't love the player. He's a great leader and had a productive college career but he's not athletic enough for my liking and I think he's fairly scheme-specific. If Rex Ryan is sent packing next offseason and a 4-3 coordinator replaces him, I don't see much fit for Lawson. And even with Ryan's defense in place, I wouldn't spend the 19th pick on an edge-setter who is not an elite athlete or pass rusher. I'm really sorry that offends you so much. I'm certainly willing to be wrong... are you?

100% agree.

 

Lawson is a good player and should last 8-10 years in the league. In my opinion he is Kelsey 2.0.

 

If anyone wants to debate me on this, good luck. And no this is not an argument I'm smoking crack on.

 

With all due respect. I gotta say. If that's what you think about Shaq then you have not watched him enough...

 

Go to Draftbreakdown. Hit the the play button. He led College Football in TTFL. 12.5 sacks and just on the 6 or so games I've watched (every down 3 times now) he was a hair away from 10 more. And no need to get too concerned with the flashy stats. Shaq is a smart, disciplined football player. He understands his role and position. He does the right thing. Watch him when an OG pulls his way. He does his job and gives up his body to blow running plays up. His eyes are always in the right place. And he plays to the whistle. He's the opposite of lazy. He played hurt. He's a great kid...

 

No way could you get that later in this Draft. And even if you could that player, whoever he is, did not show that kind of ability against top competition in College football last year...

in the NFL with NFL speed that hair is a yard and you can call it a mile.

So by your analysis, you were a fan of the Maybin selection. Maybin was an elite athlete and a pass rusher but not an edge-setter. Ok, got it.

all the critics said he was elite. He had top 10 NCAA stats. He had amazing numbers in tests. He played in the big 10.

 

The joke of maybin is revisionist history. Everyone knew he sucked now. But someone dig up a thread. I bet many here polished some knob and now needs to polish some crow

 

lol, this is some crazy worrying. It wasnt up to Rex. The Bills stuck to their board, which Whaley and the scouts put together. Rex, his son, and Clemson had nothing to do with it.

if Whaley and everyone were in a vacuum and no Rex. OK. But Rex was involved. Even if minor. The Clemson connection was a factor. This is not bad. Or good. It just is

[machine gun kelly]

I'm really happy with this draft and like the guys we brought into the organization. In addition, this draft has Rex's stamp on it. Doughy fresh delivered on his needs and did a good job. My sincere hope is Rex turns it into a top defense, meaning a top 5. If he doesn't, fire Rex, but keep Whaley.

 

Let Whaley pick who he wants for a coach. I'm a Bills fan at heart so I earnestly want this team to succeed as is this year.

 

Go Bills!

[Astrobot]

The Bills asked for Dallas's 1st in 2017. Jerry Jones now says he regrets not doing it. I wonder what our draft would have looked like with no 1st but 2 2nds and 2 3rds.

2 34 Buffalo A'Shawn Robinson DE34 Alabama

2 49 Buffalo Kentrell Brothers ILB Missouri

3 67 Buffalo Kyler Fackrell OLB34 Utah State

3 80 Buffalo Javon Hargrave DT43 South Carolina St

4 117 Buffalo Fahn Cooper OT Ole Miss

4 139 Buffalo Cardale Jones QB Ohio State

5 156 Buffalo C.J. Prosise RBF Notre Dame

6 192 Buffalo Tavon Young CB Temple

6 218 Buffalo De'Runnya Wilson WRF Mississippi St

[Coach Tuesday]

2 34 Buffalo A'Shawn Robinson DE34 Alabama

2 49 Buffalo Kentrell Brothers ILB Missouri

3 67 Buffalo Kyler Fackrell OLB34 Utah State

3 80 Buffalo Javon Hargrave DT43 South Carolina St

4 117 Buffalo Fahn Cooper OT Ole Miss

4 139 Buffalo Cardale Jones QB Ohio State

5 156 Buffalo C.J. Prosise RBF Notre Dame

6 192 Buffalo Tavon Young CB Temple

6 218 Buffalo De'Runnya Wilson WRF Mississippi St

 

That'd be an amazing draft.

[TheFunPolice]

I'm happy with how it turned out.

[gonzo1105]

2 34 Buffalo A'Shawn Robinson DE34 Alabama

2 49 Buffalo Kentrell Brothers ILB Missouri

3 67 Buffalo Kyler Fackrell OLB34 Utah State

3 80 Buffalo Javon Hargrave DT43 South Carolina St

4 117 Buffalo Fahn Cooper OT Ole Miss

4 139 Buffalo Cardale Jones QB Ohio State

5 156 Buffalo C.J. Prosise RBF Notre Dame

6 192 Buffalo Tavon Young CB Temple

6 218 Buffalo De'Runnya Wilson WRF Mississippi St

Your draft makes no sense since Young went in the 4th round, Prosise went in the 3rd, and Wilson went U drafted and has only garnered tryouts