3rdand12 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Percy is washed. Can't believe this thread keeps going. Have zero interest in retaining him. Let's get a real #2 who can help this team. I agree with the bolded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I think you meant to say that can't make decisions using foresight. Hindsight sure, and as you said, he's averaged just 7 games a year the past 4 years. Not worth it. No, I meant hindsight. You can't see the way the whole thing plays out and then make your decision based on that. You have to use foresight to anticipate what will be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 No, I meant hindsight. You can't see the way the whole thing plays out and then make your decision based on that. You have to use foresight to anticipate what will be best. That's foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) That's foresight. Yeah, I'm an idiot Edited January 24, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Yeah, I'm an idiot Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 How about a fluke for a change: Harvin comes back, stays healthy, and everyone finally sees how really good and effective he can be over the course of a full season. One can only hope. Bring him back with a heavily incentived contract and pray. Sammy and Percy for an entire season would be GOLD. Perhaps I"m delusional, but what the hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 How about a fluke for a change: Harvin comes back, stays healthy, and everyone finally sees how really good and effective he can be over the course of a full season. One can only hope. Bring him back with a heavily incentived contract and pray. Sammy and Percy for an entire season would be GOLD. Perhaps I"m delusional, but what the hell. I think you might be. He was gold for one year w farve and the Vikings. The numbers on gold status don't look too promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Give him 350K per game where he takes at least 20 snaps. Give him 150K per game where he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I think you might be. He was gold for one year w farve and the Vikings. The numbers on gold status don't look too promising. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Give him 350K per game where he takes at least 20 snaps. Give him 150K per game where he doesn't.i am pretty sure Miami gave Jordan Cameron a contract like that - he gets paid only for any game he played and not for those he didn't play or something - because of his injury history Edited January 24, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 i am pretty sure Miami gave Jordan Cameron a contract like that - he gets paid only for any game he played and not for those he didn't play or something - because of his injury history Or Greg hardy for his own reasons-Getting it down to a week to week bonus replacing salary takes a guy falling FAR, but Percy might be there. $1m base/signing with 250k per game active would be 5m for fully active, but only $3m for a half season. Wouldn't be shocked to see something like that, here or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Kirby has convinced me. I'm in. Not entirely surprising, as I was a Da'Rick guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 What kind of sack was that? Hit him harder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 That play that Ted Ginn just made is why I am advocating for Harvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Ted Ginn is a good comparison. Guy with a lot of speed but essentially a gadget guy and go route runner with the added bonus of being a great returner. His contract is one Id be comfortable with for Harvin. 2 yrs $4.2m total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Ted Ginn is a good comparison. Guy with a lot of speed but essentially a gadget guy and go route runner with the added bonus of being a great returner. His contract is one Id be comfortable with for Harvin. 2 yrs $4.2m total. Agree, that play where he changed fields twice is exactly what I am advocating for. There are only a handful of guys that can make that play and Percy is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 That play that Ted Ginn just made is why I am advocating for Harvin. Are you implying that hogan doesn't create yards/points with the ball in his hand like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Agree, that play where he changed fields twice is exactly what I am advocating for. There are only a handful of guys that can make that play and Percy is one. The question is what are we willing to pay for that in a year where we are trying to sign Glenn, Cog.....and will lose Mario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Are you implying that hogan doesn't create yards/points with the ball in his hand like that?Yes, I am implying that. It was the perfect illustration of this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Ted Ginn is a good comparison. Guy with a lot of speed but essentially a gadget guy and go route runner with the added bonus of being a great returner. Difference is its more than 5 games in and Ginn is still playing. If Harvin could do that then I'd be in favor of keeping him at his current salary. But he can't, so time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 It doesn't matter how talented Harvin is, if he's not on the field he's useless. He's shown no ability to stay on the field throughout his career. There is significant risk in taking on Harvin as well, in that, you put yourself in a position where you have to rely on his availability. He'll be healthyish to start the season and he'll be #2. You'll plan on that and craft an offense around that but it's a mirage and by the time you come around to needing to lean on him he'll be gone. I'd rather see the resources spent on players who will be on the field. Hate Woods and Hogan but they both played through significant injuries this year and took criticism for lack of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Percy is washed. Can't believe this thread keeps going. Have zero interest in retaining him. Let's get a real #2 who can help this team. You say get a real #2, but do they have the money to get that player? That is the real question. They can, and might, draft a WR, but rookie WR's don't always hit right away. The Bills are built to win now. Harvin, if he came back, would not be getting paid much money. If he plays anywhere he's probably looking at the minimum plus incentives. When he plays he has shown his worth. Is Harvin, at minimum, plus incentives better than a guy we know is less talented, or a guy who might or might not, take time to make an impact? I get why you feel the way you do, I'm just not sure there are viable, better options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Ted Ginn is a good comparison. Guy with a lot of speed but essentially a gadget guy and go route runner with the added bonus of being a great returner. His contract is one Id be comfortable with for Harvin. 2 yrs $4.2m total. i love TG2 but Harvin has much better hands than Ginn. Edited January 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) It doesn't matter how talented Harvin is, if he's not on the field he's useless. He's shown no ability to stay on the field throughout his career. There is significant risk in taking on Harvin as well, in that, you put yourself in a position where you have to rely on his availability. He'll be healthyish to start the season and he'll be #2. You'll plan on that and craft an offense around that but it's a mirage and by the time you come around to needing to lean on him he'll be gone. I'd rather see the resources spent on players who will be on the field. Hate Woods and Hogan but they both played through significant injuries this year and took criticism for lack of production. This post, IMO, adroitly captures the real reason to question whether Harvin is worth it. When he's on the field, he's worth it. But when he's not on the field, his worth is less than zero, because he's taking a roster spot that could be used to develop another player and he's part of the playbook, maybe a unique part because of his talent, so when he goes out "there goes the neighborhood". (Did the folks who foam at the mouth about cutting FredEx ever look over at the WR they kept and go "hmmmm"?) Football *is* a "zero sum game" in this regard, because if you keep a WR with a questionable injury history, you need to keep roster spots for extra WR and that means less depth at other positions since there are only 53 spots. Ryan with the Jets and then Bills bet that Harvin fixed his hip problems after undergoing surgery for a torn hip labrum and missing the 2013 season. Except, he came back for Game 11 and the playoffs, and maybe that was too soon and didn't allow him the maximum benefit of the surgery. He made it through most of 2014 thus earning some "benefit of the doubt" on turning the corner, only to no-show on 2/3 of the 2015 season. Now he needed knee surgery, only it's very strange how that need emerged - did the Bills training staff/physicians disagree on presence or severity of the knee injury and the need for surgery, thus the characterization of missing the JAX game for "personal reasons" rather than due to knee injury? Is the knee injury really the problem? Will the surgery/rehab really fix it? It's all such a mystery, except after the Chris Williams debacle I don't have great faith in the Bills medical staff to do a "deep dive" into player injuries and come out with a good decision about whether or not a guy is a good bet, injury wise. Time to shut the door. Edited January 25, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 i love TG2 but Harvin has much better hands than Ginn. while ginn has that issue, harvin has his own issues -- which i think gunner is saying all things considered they are comparable for a contract discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 if you can work a contract on how many games he plays..i 100% take harvin if its the right price. when he's available he is a nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 if you can work a contract on how many games he plays..i 100% take harvin if its the right price. when he's available he is a nightmare A nightmare? For who? 4 teams in 4 yers, 11.5 avg, 22 TDs in 7 years, 71 catches in the past 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 @TyDunne New at the BN Blog: Whaley says health still the question with #Bills' Percy Harvin, but 'we want him back' ... http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/26/249700/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 It doesn't matter how talented Harvin is, if he's not on the field he's useless. He's shown no ability to stay on the field throughout his career. There is significant risk in taking on Harvin as well, in that, you put yourself in a position where you have to rely on his availability. He'll be healthyish to start the season and he'll be #2. You'll plan on that and craft an offense around that but it's a mirage and by the time you come around to needing to lean on him he'll be gone. I'd rather see the resources spent on players who will be on the field. Hate Woods and Hogan but they both played through significant injuries this year and took criticism for lack of production. there was No one else my friend. No one . It was just too late. Easley going down also screwed the pooch. Bills were just f'd at receiver and TE in hindsight This post, IMO, adroitly captures the real reason to question whether Harvin is worth it. When he's on the field, he's worth it. But when he's not on the field, his worth is less than zero, because he's taking a roster spot that could be used to develop another player and he's part of the playbook, maybe a unique part because of his talent, so when he goes out "there goes the neighborhood". (Did the folks who foam at the mouth about cutting FredEx ever look over at the WR they kept and go "hmmmm"?) Football *is* a "zero sum game" in this regard, because if you keep a WR with a questionable injury history, you need to keep roster spots for extra WR and that means less depth at other positions since there are only 53 spots. Ryan with the Jets and then Bills bet that Harvin fixed his hip problems after undergoing surgery for a torn hip labrum and missing the 2013 season. Except, he came back for Game 11 and the playoffs, and maybe that was too soon and didn't allow him the maximum benefit of the surgery. He made it through most of 2014 thus earning some "benefit of the doubt" on turning the corner, only to no-show on 2/3 of the 2015 season. Now he needed knee surgery, only it's very strange how that need emerged - did the Bills training staff/physicians disagree on presence or severity of the knee injury and the need for surgery, thus the characterization of missing the JAX game for "personal reasons" rather than due to knee injury? Is the knee injury really the problem? Will the surgery/rehab really fix it? It's all such a mystery, except after the Chris Williams debacle I don't have great faith in the Bills medical staff to do a "deep dive" into player injuries and come out with a good decision about whether or not a guy is a good bet, injury wise. Time to shut the door. Intriguing thought process. I say the hip injury has been the nagging unrelenting injury that Bills wished and hoped Percy could overcome. I might guess they pushed him pretty hard too. The knee was just the excuse kneeded to set him down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 A nightmare? For who? 4 teams in 4 yers, 11.5 avg, 22 TDs in 7 years, 71 catches in the past 3 years. Yep. This Harvin argument is similar to the ones used for Spiller "if he catches in space he is deadly/he needs to be used properly/he can break the big one" or for Parrish/Goodwin "can run by anybody/cant be caught from behind". Flashes of brilliance, but ultimately too limited by one factor or another to be meaningfully useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @mikerodak Doug Whaley says Percy Harvin is expected to make a decision in the next couple of weeks. Bills still are in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @mikerodak Doug Whaley says Percy Harvin is expected to make a decision in the next couple of weeks. Bills still are in play. His decision making time frame is similar to his injury recovery time frame. Also known as never. I like Whaley but this Harvin thing is a mystery. The guy has talent but he never plays. He is injured more than Tim Connelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @JohnKryk #Bills GM Doug Whaley says Percy Harvin leaning toward playing in '16, and team expects answer "hopefully in the next week or 2." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I think I'm the only one who hopes he is back. Even if it's not a full time role. They can't pay him a lot so it certainly be on the cheap. Still draft one obviously but he's a good talent to have in the arsenal. He's fast, versatile, experienced and had chemistry with Taylor right off the bat. Clearly injury prone which is why, if he is back, it would be cheap/incentive laden. Edited March 21, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @mikerodak Doug Whaley says Percy Harvin is expected to make a decision in the next couple of weeks. Bills still are in play. Ewwww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think I'm the only one who hopes he is back. Even if it's not a full time role. They can't pay him a lot so it certainly be on the cheap. Still draft one obviously but he's a good talent to have in the arsenal. He's fast, versatile, experienced and had chemistry with Taylor right off the bat. Clearly injury prone which is why, if he is back, it would be cheap/incentive laden. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Small, incentivized contract = little downside and potential found money. Even if signed, shouldn't stop them from going WR early in draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 How much money are we wiling to place on a roll of the die? We all know Percy is dangerous when healthy. And we all know he has trouble staying healthy. What are his odds of remaining healthy this year? We can guess as much as we want, but if I was DW I'd be asking my medical staff detailed questions. We must have someone on staff who's an expert on the fragility of NFL players and the probabilities of getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Gross. Move on already, need guys that can play a full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Gross. Move on already, need guys that can play a full season. Yup. Extreme injury prone player on a cap stricken team is never a good idea. Incentive laden or not. Edited March 21, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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