Fred Says Whaley Dishonest With Him

[PlayoffsPlease]

The braintrust rationalizers are out in full force, I see. Because Bills GMs *always* make the smart calls ...

Clearly they do. And the Seahawks continue bumbling along with their clueless trades, free agent signings and reaching in the draft for QBs

Edited September 2, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease

[LB3]

A few thoughts on the topic:

 

- 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas.

 

-Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown.

 

Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk?

Spot on.

[Wayne Cubed]

A few thoughts on the topic:

 

- 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas.

 

-Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown.

 

Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk?

 

Where has it been said that a sponsor is angry? Unless I've missed something, there's been a tweet by Tim Graham calling the cutting of Fred, without notifying advertisers, embarrassing. That's it. I think it's fairly obvious upsetting a sponsor is bad for business but there has been a lot of taking Tim Grahams opinion, "it's embarrassing", and using it as a fact that a sponsor is upset.

 

As to Grahams comment, the ad has already been made, the money already spent. Whaley would have had to tell this sponsor months ago that he was being cut to save that money. Even if Whaley included this sponsor in the loop when he made the decision, they've already lost money on the ad. I know this may be hard for Tim to understand but maybe the sponsor ran the ad anyways because they spent the money. Maybe the Bills told them and they said "Well we've spent the money already we are going to run the ad." It's not like Fred was Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson and his character was tarnished by the cut.

[Gordio]

If that had happened, there'd be no argument at all. But it didn't, Fred was awesome as usual.

 

 

What was so awesome about him? He got hurt early in camp. He came back had 40 yard + run on the first play of scrimmage from a hole so big I could of ran thru & then carried the ball 5 more times for a whopping total of 8 yards. I know it is hard, I know he is a good guy & a great community leader but Jackson was shot guys. He is delussional if he thinks he is going to play 3 more years. This year he would of been the third/4th back, would of been fighting thru nagging injuries all year & probably would not of dressed most of the games since he doesn't contribute on special teams like the other rbs do. I mean if you really look at all the angles, this cut actually makes a ton of sense.

[billsfan1959]

While there is great humor to be had reading the desperation of Team Whaley flood the TBD board in a sad, failed effort to salvage his image, it really does demonstrate how petty and small the man is.

 

Smear Fred as a bitter, washed up liar? Yeah, Buffalo fans really believe Waley is the higher character guy, and think Bryce Brown is the better player.

 

Smear TBN as a tabloid reporting slanderous lies with fake sources as part of some tinfoil hat conspiracy against Whaley? Good luck with that one.

 

Blast Buffalo fans as "ungrateful" for "all Whaley has done", and getting bent for him "just doing his job"? Yeah, multiple reports of Whaley lying and going rogue must all be false. Fans are just idiots.

 

Mock fans for circulating a pro-Freddy petition with upwards of 20k signatures? Yeah, posts like that doesn't look fishy or anything.

 

Smear the Pegulas for circulating false rumors that Whaley's reckless, personal decision to cut Freddy without communicating to them first caused embrassment and possible financial loss from one of the biggest advertisors? Yeah, Bills fans in real life run with that opinion.

 

Team Whaley, you can bombard the boards with as many of your lackeys as you like but it won't move the dial a single notch. We know what the score is, and demonizing everyone but you will onlly backfire.

 

Then again, you should be used to seeing impulsive maneuvers to boost your profile backfire in your face. Try being accountable for a change, bub. The smarmy, disengenuous act is wearing thin.

For some reason, the term, "word salad" comes to mind...

[PromoTheRobot]

How are determining that Fred is more injury prone than Goodwin? Can you explain a little further?

 

Perhaps they think the Beast is better than McCoy?

Yeah that must be it. Lynch is 4th in rushing and McCoy is wayyyy behind him in 3rd.

[birdog1960]

Clearly they do. And the Seahawks continue bumbling along with their clueless trades, free agent signings and reaching in the draft for QBs

this.

 

there are significant implications in this move if whaley went rogue. the bills don't need a power struggle. there's plenty of smoke here. I expect there's at least a small fire. but we have posters here ever ready to quell any and all insurrections against bills management even when it's blatantly obvious they're incompetent (like the last 15 years). almost makes you wonder if some are astroturf posters as opposed to grassroots.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Where has it been said that a sponsor is angry? Unless I've missed something, there's been a tweet by Tim Graham calling the cutting of Fred, without notifying advertisers, embarrassing. That's it. I think it's fairly obvious upsetting a sponsor is bad for business but there has been a lot of taking Tim Grahams opinion, "it's embarrassing", and using it as a fact that a sponsor is upset.

 

As to Grahams comment, the ad has already been made, the money already spent. Whaley would have had to tell this sponsor months ago that he was being cut to save that money. Even if Whaley included this sponsor in the loop when he made the decision, they've already lost money on the ad. I know this may be hard for Tim to understand but maybe the sponsor ran the ad anyways because they spent the money. Maybe the Bills told them and they said "Well we've spent the money already we are going to run the ad." It's not like Fred was Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson and his character was tarnished by the cut.

He talked about the expensive ad campaign that they were about to roll out with Fred. The sponsorship, marketing department, ad agency and marketing people at the company work daily on these things. It either looks like an "old ad" because the player isn't there or the have to re-do it. The Bills will probably eat the cost as a good faith gesture but the new ad's release won't coincide with the start of the year.

 

I'm not saying that M&T will walk over this but it is not good business. They are probably one of the biggest 5 sponsors that the Bills have. If they did walk you would not likely replace them someone of equal value. It is more about the headache because I can promise that the sponsor is not happy at all (and they are always difficult to begin with).

[Wayne Cubed]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

[BuffaloHokie13]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

I mean, part of his responsibilities is managing the 53 man roster. This "going rogue" thing is just silly. He was performing his job duties.

[billsfan1959]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

This thought is probably a bit too rational for this thread. Tone it down...

[birdog1960]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

ya think? I don't. if I were the pegulas, I wouldn't publicly turn the organization upside down over this. they would look foolish as would the entire organization.

[Gordio]

He talked about the expensive ad campaign that they were about to roll out with Fred. The sponsorship, marketing department, ad agency and marketing people at the company work daily on these things. It either looks like an "old ad" because the player isn't there or the have to re-do it. The Bills will probably eat the cost as a good faith gesture but the new ad's release won't coincide with the start of the year.

 

I'm not saying that M&T will walk over this but it is not good business. They are probably one of the biggest 5 sponsors that the Bills have. If they did walk you would not likely replace them someone of equal value. It is more about the headache because I can promise that the sponsor is not happy at all (and they are always difficult to begin with).

 

 

Not for nothing but shame on the marketing department for M&T Bank. Not anybody there thought "hey Jackson is the oldest rb in the league, he might not make the team, maybe we shouldn't have him as the focal point for our ads." You think Billy B & the boys in Foxboro would give 2 craps about cutting a player because it might hurt one of your sponsors feelings? Yeah I didn't think so.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Gordio

[thebandit27]

I haven't read this whole thread, so here's my 2 cents:

 

I don't understand how a GM can "go rogue"...I guess the implication is that the coaching staff wanted to keep Freddie, but Whaley didn't?

 

If that's the case, it is a bit of a concern, but not a major one IMO. This team needs to roll as much cap space into the future as possible to keep Dareus/Gilmore/Glenn/Bradham, so I can understand why the GM might place a premium on cutting any money where they can do so, even if it means making a decision that the coach might not be thrilled with at the moment.

 

That said, whether it was about the money or not, I think the decision makes sense from an on-the-field standpoint. From a selfish standpoint, I sure will miss seeing #22 out there.

[PromoTheRobot]

That is just a god-awful analogy.

Talk about something that would never happen. Some people really have to reach to make their points.

[17 Josh Allen]

I feel bad for Fred I love everything the Bills have done this off season except cut Fred. You can not replace his heart and his will to win. Guys like Bryce Brown are a dime a dozen you can get

them anytime in the rounds 3 thru 6 in next years draft. Or if your scouting is good like the Bills is maybe as a undrafted college free agent. This release of Jackson is a mistake

no it won't cost the Bills wins or ruin the team but it takes away that special feeling the team had going on this summer. This team is poised to do something great this year and Fred Jackson is there leader

you don't go into battle without your true leader. I know Fred would not have played a lot this year but for me his role would have been an important one of leadership and captain of this football

team. For the life of me I can't understand how Rex and Doug don't understand this. Did you here what Fred said after he was cut he would have given anything to retire a Buffalo Bill.

That means he would have taken a pay cut, maybe played special teams he would have done what ever it took. Here is a guy who led are team last year in rushing and receiving last year.

He is are emotional leader and are community leader and the person who sets the right example of what a athlete should be. How is it the best team in football the last 3 years Seattle can see that and we can't.

Yes I agree at this point in time Bryce Brown might be better at running the ball and faster. But Fred is better at Blocking and getting the extra yard and leading our team and our town and city and this region.

It would be like the Yankees cutting Derrick Jeter. Yes his Skills have diminished and there might be a better younger player in the minors. SO the Bills should have gone to Fred and said that this is your last year

with us make it a good one we want you to do out on top and play in a Bills Playoff game. Then have Fred announce it. I don't know why The Bills management and Terry and Kim Pegula can't understand this.

How can the Bills look them selves in the mirror and think this is ok. I for one was ashamed to be a Bills fan yesterday. I am sad for Fred I wish him well. My my 2nd favorite team is Seattle because I love Russell

Wilson and I wanted the Bills to Draft him. Having Marshawn helps too, now if Fred signs that will really be cool. Fred will protect Wilson on 3rd downs and spell Lynch and will also provide true leadership

to a Superbowl winning team looking to go to a 3rd straight Super Bowl. I hope if the Bills do not win the SuperBowl this year that the Seahawks do so Fred can go out a winner. Fred deserves to be respected.

This is something the Bills management failed to do when the released him yesterday. They tried to say the right things but I'm not buying it. Fred's release does not feel right. my eyes tell me that, my gut tells

me that, and my heart tells me that.

[Snorom]

Fred was cut I'm way over it already

 

this is professional football players are cut all the time. Accept it

 

 

 

Some Bills fans are just always looking for axes to grind. then you have to listen to them whine for years. That gets real old....

 

 

Fred should of known and realized that there are no guarantees to a roster spot and handled it like a man. Fred has just become another press whiner we've see 1000 times before

Edited September 2, 2015 by Snorom

[Wayne Cubed]

He talked about the expensive ad campaign that they were about to roll out with Fred. The sponsorship, marketing department, ad agency and marketing people at the company work daily on these things. It either looks like an "old ad" because the player isn't there or the have to re-do it. The Bills will probably eat the cost as a good faith gesture but the new ad's release won't coincide with the start of the year.

 

I'm not saying that M&T will walk over this but it is not good business. They are probably one of the biggest 5 sponsors that the Bills have. If they did walk you would not likely replace them someone of equal value. It is more about the headache because I can promise that the sponsor is not happy at all (and they are always difficult to begin with).

 

I understand all of that, I work in marketing. The problem is the ad was already made. The money for the ad was already spent. Like I said before the only way they could have avoided this is by letting M&T know months before Fred was getting cut, which I'm sure that wasn't decided at that point. The only way to avoid all of this would have been to keep Fred, for the sake of making a sponsor happy.

 

Graham's tweet makes it seem like the Bills have known for months and months that Fred was going to be cut and that they should have told M&T to avoid the "embarrassing" situation. If Fred was going to be cut and the decision was made after the Pittsburgh game there is no way M&T could avoid any of this. If the Bills did know that a player was going to be cut months in advance and a sponsor spent money making an ad featuring that player, then yes it would be embarrassing to the Bills.

 

The whole tweet and comment from Graham is ridiculous, IMO. But that's his schtick.

[birdog1960]

I haven't read this whole thread, so here's my 2 cents:

 

I don't understand how a GM can "go rogue"...I guess the implication is that the coaching staff wanted to keep Freddie, but Whaley didn't?

 

If that's the case, it is a bit of a concern, but not a major one IMO. This team needs to roll as much cap space into the future as possible to keep Dareus/Gilmore/Glenn/Bradham, so I can understand why the GM might place a premium on cutting any money where they can do so, even if it means making a decision that the coach might not be thrilled with at the moment.

 

That said, whether it was about the money or not, I think the decision makes sense from an on-the-field standpoint. From a selfish standpoint, I sure will miss seeing #22 out there.

good guess. it's a situation like this that led to ryan's and the jets demise in new York.

[PromoTheRobot]

i don't get the love for whaley here. is he a top 10 gm? is he as good at his trade as jackson is it his? i don't believe so.

Is Fred a Top Ten RB? I don't believe so.

[birdog1960]

Is Fred a Top Ten RB? I don't believe so.

how many rb's in the nfl? gm's? i'd see fred is top 30%. is whaley?

[Rob's House]

this.

 

there are significant implications in this move if whaley went rogue. the bills don't need a power struggle. there's plenty of smoke here. I expect there's at least a small fire. but we have posters here ever ready to quell any and all insurrections against bills management even when it's blatantly obvious they're incompetent (like the last 15 years). almost makes you wonder if some are astroturf posters as opposed to grassroots.

I'd rarely considered such a thing in the past, but I'm starting to wonder. I stopped in at the official site (a real shithole, btw) and I think that one's definitely manipulated, even in the way it's moderated.

 

It's much better here, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills PR department had a few plants making the rounds on private sites. It makes sense to use social media to influence opinion.

[Wayne Cubed]

ya think? I don't. if I were the pegulas, I wouldn't publicly turn the organization upside down over this. they would look foolish as would the entire organization.

 

What's more foolish, an employee of your company being insubordinate and you as the owner doing something about it? Or an employee of a company being insubordinate and you as the owner do nothing?

 

You'd look like you don't know how to run a company if employees are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and have no consequences for it. If it got out that Whaley was truly "rogue" it would make the Pegulas look very bad.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's a fine analogy. Not all analogies are meant to mirror the entire situation, some are to shed light on one specific, often nuanced, aspect of it.

No, it's sheer stupidity. No radio program director tells his disc jockeys to trash clients on air.

[Mickey]

 

He's also the guy who was instrumental in building the best defense in the NFL and bringing McCoy to Buffalo by trading damaged goods. But yeah. Infantile.

He was also instrumental in drafting EJ Manuel and needlessly trading up for a WR in a year loaded with good WR's. He has been with the Bills for four years with out a single post season appearance. An unqualified success he is not. He has made good decisions and bad ones. This is a bad one, in my opinion, simply because I think Fred still has gas in the tank and is a much better RB than Brown.

 

As for Fred's public statement that Whaley wasn't honest with him, there is no way in the world I would believe that Fred is a liar. If he says Whaley wasn't honest with him, I believe him. I worry that being branded as dishonest by a player with the reputation of Fred Jackson will not help Whaley attract future free agents. That said, Fred will sign with someone and most likely prove that he can still get the job done and we have a pretty talented backfield, if not a deep one, even without Fred. We'll all live.

[birdog1960]

 

What's more foolish, an employee of your company being insubordinate and you as the owner doing something about it? Or an employee of a company being insubordinate and you as the owner do nothing?

 

You'd look like you don't know how to run a company if employees are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and have no consequences for it. If it got out that Whaley was truly "rogue" it would make the Pegulas look very bad.

exactly. it is out. it would be stupid to confirm it. it would make more sense to wait til next year to make a change. here's to hoping!

[Wayne Cubed]

exactly. it is out. it would be stupid to confirm it. it would make more sense to wait til next year to make a change. here's to hoping!

 

Huh?

 

Why wait? They've wronged Fred, they fired an employee without permission from the owner, surely you make that situation right by cutting ties with Whaley and rehiring Fred.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Wayne Cubed

[birdog1960]

 

Huh?

 

Why wait? They've wronged Fred, surely you make that situation right by cutting ties with Whaley and rehiring Fred.

what is the higher priority? fred's job or the pegula's reputation as savvy owners?

[NoSaint]

A few thoughts on the topic:

 

- 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas.

 

-Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown.

 

Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk?

if he feels like its the right decision, it was the decision he should make. that he made it despite knowing it would be controversial definitely underscores how he feels.

 

to your point on the finances - have you ever, in your time working with sports teams, seen one make a roster move based on an upcoming ad campaign from a sponsor? or is that a situation where the GM would normally say "i understand this makes your job harder, but hopefully it results in wins and thats my job, and will make your job a cake walk if im right more often than not."

Edited September 2, 2015 by NoSaint

[PromoTheRobot]

A few thoughts on the topic:

 

- 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas.

 

-Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown.

 

Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk?

Clients may be pissed but you aren't advocating that player decisions be controlled by advertising clients? Like I said earlier you roll the dice when you use players as spokespeople. Especially one that is approaching the end of his career.

[Rob's House]

Also, after having 2 nights to sleep on it I like it even less. Doug Whaley can kiss my ass.

[Wayne Cubed]

what is the higher priority? fred's job or the pegula's reputation as savvy owners?

 

How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission?

[papazoid]

it's playoffs or bust for whaley.

 

the writing is on the wall for him after the failed attempt by the pegula's to bring on polian,

[KD in CA]

 

How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission?

 

You really think business owners sign off on every individual hire and fire in a billion dollar business?

[Rob's House]

No, it's sheer stupidity. No radio program director tells his disc jockeys to trash clients on air.

I'll let him speak for himself, but I think the point flew over your head.

[YoloinOhio]

Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back?

whaley publically stated the Pegulas were consulted.

[CodeMonkey]

 

What did he want to hear, exactly? Fred seems like a smart guy. I'm sure he can figure this out without Whaley telling him there's no room for an 34-year-old RB/locker room cheerleader when other, more important, players need to be extended. Common man.

 

 

Too bad It`s over deal with it. Just like any other player. He made a boat load of money. Sour grapes. EVERYBODY gets old.

You guys wash Whaleys balls even better that the MNF crew wash Brady's when he is playing. Well done!

[billsfan1959]

whaley publically stated the Pegulas were consulted.

Also, Whaley and Ryan met with Fred together...pretty rogue

[Wayne Cubed]

 

You really think business owners sign off on every individual hire and fire in a billion dollar business?

 

Consulted, with a fan favorite like Fred, yes. Kept in the loop about how the roster is shaping up, yes.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Wayne Cubed

[thebandit27]

good guess. it's a situation like this that led to ryan's and the jets demise in new York.

 

Slight difference in that John Idzik--a financial guy--was making personnel decisions after being given final say over the 53-man roster AFTER Rex was already in the job for 3 years.

 

Here, Rex took the job knowing that Whaley--a personnel guy--was going to have final say over the 53-man roster.

 

I would say that the two situations are very, very different.