thewildrabbit Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 What it looks like the last 15 years of million dollar moron coaches, and many fans just didn't understand is ...that even if you have an elite QB you had better be able to protect the most important player on the field. The Bills found an elite QB in statuesque Drew Bledsoe and instead of continuing to build the O line to properly protect him (which they intended by drafting OT Williams #4 overall)... they instead told him to get the ball out quicker. Then tried to replace him with a first round scrub QB, and an aging journeyman QB. The scouts didn't get it right with that 1st round pick at OT so they thought that they would most certainly get it right with the QB. The entire idea behind drafting JP was that he was more mobile, and how did that work out? How on gods green earth can coaches expect to succeed with any QB with known inferior players on the line is beyond me. Bring in a bight new shiny QB, and let him get the crap beaten out of him for a few years, and then wonder what happened! Trent Edwards might have become another Joe Montana as Bill Walsh suggested... except for the several severe concussions he suffered behind a bad line. Wash, rinse, repeat, over the last 15 years and the stupidity just never ends As it stands the current Buffalo Bills still have two to three "maybe" players for the line this season or perhaps more depending on how the the other known scrubs on the roster pan out. Everything points to the fact that even if the Bills only want to be able to run the ball successfully with their new 10 mil per RB, that they had better have some top quality players at the OG position, and right now it doesn't look good with anyone on the roster. It looks like the power scheme the Bills want to run is the exact same scheme Kelly put in with the Eagles, and Mathis was on par to have another great season until his injury put him out 7 games last year. McCoy was "skittering" around to much without their star OG on the field. Again, to those that don't think an all pro upgrade at OG will make a difference need to take a long hard look at who the Cowboys drafted #1 last season, and the impact that single player had on their entire offense! Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. Anyway, like "The Dean" pointed out, Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 What it looks like the last 15 years of million dollar moron coaches, and many fans just didn't understand is ...that even if you have an elite QB you had better be able to protect the most important player on the field. The Bills found an elite QB in statuesque Drew Bledsoe and instead of continuing to build the O line to properly protect him (which they intended by drafting OT Williams #4 overall)... they instead told him to get the ball out quicker. Then tried to replace him with a first round scrub QB, and an aging journeyman QB. The scouts didn't get it right with that 1st round pick at OT so they thought that they would most certainly get it right with the QB. The entire idea behind drafting JP was that he was more mobile, and how did that work out? How on gods green earth can coaches expect to succeed with any QB with known inferior players on the line is beyond me. Bring in a bight new shiny QB, and let him get the crap beaten out of him for a few years, and then wonder what happened! Trent Edwards might have become another Joe Montana as Bill Walsh suggested... except for the several severe concussions he suffered behind a bad line. Wash, rinse, repeat, over the last 15 years and the stupidity just never ends As it stands the current Buffalo Bills still have two to three "maybe" players for the line this season or perhaps more depending on how the the other known scrubs on the roster pan out. Everything points to the fact that even if the Bills only want to be able to run the ball successfully with their new 10 mil per RB, that they had better have some top quality players at the OG position, and right now it doesn't look good with anyone on the roster. It looks like the power scheme the Bills want to run is the exact same scheme Kelly put in with the Eagles, and Mathis was on par to have another great season until his injury put him out 7 games last year. McCoy was "skittering" around to much without their star OG on the field. Again, to those that don't think an all pro upgrade at OG will make a difference need to take a long hard look at who the Cowboys drafted #1 last season, and the impact that single player had on their entire offense! Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. Anyway, like "The Dean" pointed out, Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen. Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching. Hey man, I'll be ecstatic should the Bills field a even a somewhat decent offensive line this year. So cheers The sad reality is the GM went after top veterans OT / OG in free agency for a very real reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing. Ok- I can admit it, I was wrong. Urbick and C. Williams will cost us 5.55 million in cap space. I'm not a capologist so some of you can probably provide more insight than myself. Would Mathis take $6 mil a year if there some decent guaranteed money? He fought over 5.5 mil for two years with the Eagles. People do love to play for Rex so maybe. Between Miller and Incognito, we should have one of the two improve us as a starter and Mathis absolutely would help us on the other side. I personally hope we do it. The other thing I don't know is how much higher is the cap next year for the Dareus issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching. we hope. you know thats starting a rookie and another guy out of the league and another second year guy that struggled or did not even play. you know this? right Greg? unproven. at all> not a bit of it Mathis can walk in and play. But if the coaches and whaley think they are fine well, lordy i hope they are right. because creating lanes and protecting the QB might the most important feature of the offense As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing. there are many ways too skin this cat. and you dont have to cut Urbik. cwilliams goes though Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point. How do you define a successful O line Bandit. i might not look for stats but an ability to control the line and move the ball. they dont have to be heroes. just get the job done. thats all i ask from our upcoming Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 3rd and 12, I understand we can extend contracts, renegotiate with Mario's agent, and so on, but with only losing one back up lineman, that would not hurt that much. I understand your comments so not arguing with you, but can see us using those other options when it's Dareus's turn, and that is going to be a lot more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hey man, I'll be ecstatic should the Bills field a even a somewhat decent offensive line this year. So cheers The sad reality is the GM went after top veterans OT / OG in free agency for a very real reason. I have no doubts. You may end up being right, I don't doubt your passion to see the Bills win at all. I just think they're in better shape than you realize. There's no way to tell until real football starts of course, and I could be completely overestimating the impact of the coaching change + a year of development. We'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point. Again, Brady looked bad the first 4 games last year while the OL was getting settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Again, Brady looked bad the first 4 games last year while the OL was getting settled. Indeed. Nobody is arguing that the OL can be consistently atrocious (although some guys--like Luck last year and Big Ben and Rodgers in seasons of yore--have managed to overcome it). The overarching point here is that they didn't put together any type of dominant line; they merely pieces together something passable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L Buffalo Bills coach Rex Ryan admitted his team is looking into the possibility of bringing Mathis to town. "I think he's a good football player; there's no doubt," Ryan said at a charity softball game Saturday evening, via ESPN. "We'll do our due diligence, so to speak, but I'm pretty happy with our guards." Edited June 15, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L So best guess: 6 teams have asked what he wants. Rosenhaus is trying to push the 1 team that might actually be interested (in that ballpark) to make the best offer they can, pretending there is significant competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 mathis' talent already is, or will soon, begin(ning) to fade. i suspect he is looking for a 2 or 3 year contract with a contender, even if at a lower salary, to take one last crack at a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Interesting read, Mathis may not get as much as he wanted. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/06/whats_evan_mathis_worth_on_the_open_market_exec_ag.html ...I asked for some opinions and had three sources guestimate what Mathis would land on the open market. The three-man anonymous panel consisted of a front-office executive, a salary cap expert and an agent. Executive: 1 year, $3-3.5 million with incentives to reach $5 million Salary Cap Expert: 3 years, $14-17 million with $6-8 million guaranteed Agent: 1 year, $3-4 million with incentives to reach $5.5 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 In related news, Justin blalock is retiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Interesting read, Mathis may not get as much as he wanted. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/06/whats_evan_mathis_worth_on_the_open_market_exec_ag.html ...I asked for some opinions and had three sources guestimate what Mathis would land on the open market. The three-man anonymous panel consisted of a front-office executive, a salary cap expert and an agent. Executive: 1 year, $3-3.5 million with incentives to reach $5 million Salary Cap Expert: 3 years, $14-17 million with $6-8 million guaranteed Agent: 1 year, $3-4 million with incentives to reach $5.5 million Which are all less than he would have made had he stayed in Philly, and, as I said above: this is the price you pay for losing a holdout. Everybody else in the NFL, and these 3 guys, which include an agent, expects the "lost your holdout" penalty to be put into full effect. Since that's true, we shouldn't be expecting the Bills to pay $24 mil over 3 years or whatever, and criticizing Whaley when he doesn't do that , because that's not how the NFL works. Edited June 15, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L Of course Rosenhaus says so. Note how he also declines to name them and says they'll "take their time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Of course Rosenhaus says so. Note how he also declines to name them and says they'll "take their time" Apparently no team is willing to pay his asking price yet. He is no doubt hoping some team will get desperate with a key injury as camp rolls around. Could well happen, then again, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I have no doubts. You may end up being right, I don't doubt your passion to see the Bills win at all. I just think they're in better shape than you realize. There's no way to tell until real football starts of course, and I could be completely overestimating the impact of the coaching change + a year of development. We'll find out soon enough. and I could be underestimating those changes. Trust me, I'd be singing a far different tune if the team had signed Brian Bulaga / Jahri Evans or different players at those positions with similar talent. I just don't see much success this year with the current QB's struggling to make plays. If you don't have an elite QB, you had better have a damn good line. When a team becomes one dimensional they become so easy to shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Apparently no team is willing to pay his asking price yet. He is no doubt hoping some team will get desperate with a key injury as camp rolls around. Could well happen, then again, maybe not. I'm not quite sure how that is "apparent" as he only recently became a free agent. As johnwalter mentioned maybe he will be looking to try and win a ring in his remaining years and not just grab the highest $$ deal. The timing of this doesn't work in his favor if money is the only thing that interests him. But he will certainly have offers and as you note, if he's willing to wait, injuries always happen. If it's only more money he's after, then he may be SOL, at least for this year. But it seems as though he is pissed at Philly/Kelly for reneging on a previous offer. He might be happier to play for less on another team, for a GM he can trust. Maybe he makes a deal with incentives for this year, with a bigger number for next year. When you make millions and are financially set, it's easier to stand up on principle, while still making millions. I think Kelly is really playing a high-risk GM strategy. If it doesn't work, it will be interesting to see if the GM Kelly or the HC Kelly gets the axe---or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm not quite sure how that is "apparent" as he only recently became a free agent. As johnwalter mentioned maybe he will be looking to try and win a ring in his remaining years and not just grab the highest $$ deal. The timing of this doesn't work in his favor if money is the only thing that interests him. But he will certainly have offers and as you note, if he's willing to wait, injuries always happen. If it's only more money he's after, then he may be SOL, at least for this year. But it seems as though he is pissed at Philly/Kelly for reneging on a previous offer. He might be happier to play for less on another team, for a GM he can trust. Maybe he makes a deal with incentives for this year, with a bigger number for next year. When you make millions and are financially set, it's easier to stand up on principle, while still making millions. I think Kelly is really playing a high-risk GM strategy. If it doesn't work, it will be interesting to see if the GM Kelly or the HC Kelly gets the axe---or both. He might be on vacation and planning visits later for all we know. Just cause he was cut doesn't mean he took the first cab to the airport and is desperately waiting for ANYONE to call. It's June. There's a good chance he sits til close to camp even without it meaning anything substantial for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 so. again, there's a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 @AlbertBreer: Chip Kelly on Evan Mathis: "We were asked by his agent for his release on multiple occasions." Said they wanted him to play on current deal. @SBNationNFL: The 49ers, Colts, Dolphins and Chiefs are the four frontrunners in the Evan Mathis sweepstakes http://t.co/xzw6G62nOihttp://t.co/YIGLx7fdw4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How do the dolphins even have the money to sign him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How do the dolphins even have the money to sign himthey have a little more than the Bills do for one year but if it comes down to money or a long term deal my bet is SF @AdamSchefter: 49ers lost 4 good players to retirement. Upside: it created $25 million of salary-cap room over next year, and $40 million of room in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 How do the dolphins even have the money to sign him because the salary cap is REALLY high and expected to jump up a lot next year? and you can do a lot with contract structures. part of the reason i get tired of the "we cant afford anything else" crowd. if we see something that is the right fit, we can make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 they have a little more than the Bills do for one year but if it comes down to money or a long term deal my bet is SF @AdamSchefter: 49ers lost 4 good players to retirement. Upside: it created $25 million of salary-cap room over next year, and $40 million of room in 2017. I admit that I am not as good as the cap stuff as others.....but didnt Miami just pay "franchise type money" to extend their QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I admit that I am not as good as the cap stuff as others.....but didnt Miami just pay "franchise type money" to extend their QB? teams with franchise qbs do get to have other moderately priced players. its not just QB and vet minimum the rest of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Evan Mathis disputes Chip Kelly's claim that Mathis asked to be released multiple times http://t.co/3T4DP3gtVL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Mathis should thumb his nose at the Eagles by singing for the vet minimum to block for Shady. #JustWin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Mathis should thumb his nose at the Eagles by singing for the vet minimum to block for Shady. #JustWin Will he have backup singers and a band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Mathis should thumb his nose at the Eagles by singing for the vet minimum to block for Shady. #JustWin How is signing for vet minimum thumbing his nose at the Eagles? He would look ridiculous if he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) How do the dolphins even have the money to sign him they have a little more than the Bills do for one year but if it comes down to money or a long term deal my bet is SF @AdamSchefter: 49ers lost 4 good players to retirement. Upside: it created $25 million of salary-cap room over next year, and $40 million of room in 2017. Realistically the Dolphins don't have the money to sign Mathis. They have a little more than the Bills this season, but are lined up to be in the worst shape of any team next offseason. Every team mentioned as a suitor is not really interested. Rosenhaus, who happens to live in Miami, is just trying to drive up the price of his client by publicly adding names to the suitors list. Edited June 16, 2015 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ Wow the Dolphins had $22 million in dead cap this year. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 because the salary cap is REALLY high and expected to jump up a lot next year? and you can do a lot with contract structures. part of the reason i get tired of the "we cant afford anything else" crowd. if we see something that is the right fit, we can make it work. I mentioned this up thread with out any details. If someone made a strong case for bringing him in i am feeling pretty safe Whaley tells Overdorf and the gang to get some pencils moving and the phones ringers turned back on. Mathis might well be worth some pursuit. Like i said i hope the FO is crunching numbers , expressed interest and the phone lines are now open for business. Hope the markets settles down for him and we can find some pegula spare change in the couch cushions again. Maybe the coaches and scouts know better then me though. I have considered that as possible also./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Prediction: Mathis is not going to come close to living up to his next contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Prediction: Mathis is not going to come close to living up to his next contract. Prediction: Mathis next contract is not going to come close to his expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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