BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 RR is a bust. Not saying RR will be the savior. As a counter I can say that BB was also a loser first time HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Not saying RR will be the savior. As a counter I can say that BB was also a loser first time HC. He was also a loser in NE until he got Brady. And if EJ failed under a veteran NFL coaching staff, I'd be ready to move on. But he failed under the Syracuse coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I believe that EJ , CJ & Hackett all could have been casualty's of Marrone's bad coaching & bad assistant hires on the offensive side of the ball like Marrone getting rid off Joe D which had a very good previous year with the talent we had on the O line to get his own guy . There was no hold over coaches per say when Marrone took over , unlike what Rex is doing asking some of the coaches he recognized as being very good & getting results from the players under there watch . Like asking Schwartz , Henderson , & even the ST's coach to stick around Marrone was a moron as a HC !! If EJ paid attention while Kyle was playing & also paid attention to his QB coach he probably learned a lot . The accuracy thing is up to him to earn his millions in the off season & really go out to improve that aspect of the game on his time , some way , some how . The part of making game speed decisions & reading defenses is the only thing that scares me because that was 2 of the 3 knocks he had on him coming out of college & even his ex college HC said so . So he didn't have a lot of good things that coaches saw in his time as a college player unlike what they saw in a 6th round pick of a Tom Brady . I really hope EJ can be that guy because he seems to be a good kid with a level head on his shoulders but Teabow is a Great person but you see where that got him !! He was also a loser in NE until he got Brady. And if EJ failed under a veteran NFL coaching staff, I'd be ready to move on. But he failed under the Syracuse coaching staff. AAAAAMEN !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) This. He looked so calm, cool and collected v the pats and panthers in his first starts. V pats he threw two 20 yard TD strikes. One a end line touch pass to stevie. One a late read after sliding in the pocket. No one called him robotic then. Way too much thinking about footwork, not turning the ball over etc.... A new start along with some renewed swagger might be just the prescription to resurrect his career. That and during crunch time (two minute drills, etc) in other games. To me, the rest of the time, he seemed like a guy who was thinking too hard about whatever the coaches were drilling into him, and less about trying to make plays. Edited January 20, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Playing in more than 14 games will help EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 That and during crunch time (two minute drills, etc) in other games. To me, the rest of the time, he seemed like a guy who was thinking too hard about whatever the coaches were drilling into him, and less about trying to make plays. I've been saying it for a while. EJ seems like a guy who is too nice and trying to please everyone. He needs a little more eff you attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think a quality NFL QB is going to need to have great eyes. Eyes that are quick and have excellent peripheral, awareness of the entire field. EJ has slow eyes with tunnel vision. I don't care how great his arm is or how sound his mechanics are, his eyes are awful. Can you coach up and improve eyes? My guess is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Playing in more than 14 games will help EJ. Having a serviceable OL and a running game that can be relied on will also help him. Let's hope the Bills acquire those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I wish we had hired David Lee Roth instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Lee Smith will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 EJ probably has played QB since he was 6 years old. Since he's most likely 23 now, and had personal QB coaches since he was young. What makes anyone think he can automatically start processing information that fast in his head? He's not going to get better, and too bad as he seems like a nice, hard working kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 He's not going to get better, and too bad as he seems like a nice, hard working kid. I am not saying he definitely will, but you just cannot know that for definite that he won't. Alex Smith was 5 years into a hitherto below average to downright awful NFL career and then Greg Roman arrived, helped him simplify his thought processes as a Quarterback and he improved drastically. It is not complete madness to say the same could happen to EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Without a solid OL , EJ or any young QB is toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I am not saying he definitely will, but you just cannot know that for definite that he won't. Alex Smith was 5 years into a hitherto below average to downright awful NFL career and then Greg Roman arrived, helped him simplify his thought processes as a Quarterback and he improved drastically. It is not complete madness to say the same could happen to EJ. Hell, lets take it further... Rodgers didn't look that great his first couple seasons during preseason and the few opportunities he got. Then there's other QBs that simply don't get better, period. The fact is, it takes a few years to truly know what you have at QB most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaskerTough Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I am not saying he definitely will, but you just cannot know that for definite that he won't. Alex Smith was 5 years into a hitherto below average to downright awful NFL career and then Greg Roman arrived, helped him simplify his thought processes as a Quarterback and he improved drastically. It is not complete madness to say the same could happen to EJ. That's the most delicious cake I've eaten this off season. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I still say we would have had 9 wins last year if we would have stuck with EJ. EJ is light years ahead of RG3. RG3 still doesn't know basics like how far to drop back on the plays. EJ studies & practices his butt off - and won't be so tentative when given another chance. That said, there are only 2 QBs that interest me for the draft this year: Sean Mannion & Bryce Petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I still say we would have had 9 wins last year if we would have stuck with EJ. EJ is light years ahead of RG3. RG3 still doesn't know basics like how far to drop back on the plays. EJ studies & practices his butt off - and won't be so tentative when given another chance. That said, there are only 2 QBs that interest me for the draft this year: Sean Mannion & Bryce Petty. So you don't rate a Quarterback from the Art Briles system at Baylor because he doesn't know the basics and can't get his drops right and yet you want another Quarterback from that system? I coudl be convinced to take a shot on Petty if he is knocking about in the middle rounds but he is a big project at the NFL level. I think he may be a bigger project than EJ was even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 college and Pro Football are light years apart. You take your best guess. Sometimes you hit a homerun on a natural talent and many times you strike out. who's the 6th round QB sat on a bench for a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmsbills Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Who were the QB coaches for Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers- it does not really matter. If EJ has "it" he will succeed if not he will be looking for a new team after next season. All that said a system can help or hurt a QB. The system under Marrone would have hurt any average QB and maybe even limited good QB's. Marrone came in here saying all the right things - up tempo- fast pace- but ultimately went with no downfield throws - short dump offs and never taking any chances - " limit mistakes at all costs" and punting is a good thing. With that type of mindset it's no wonder why Orton decided to retire. Even Orton must of felt Marrone was useless. Bring in two QB's plus EJ and may the best man win. Let them play to their ability and strengths. Let them play ball and not be afraid to take chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If Lee can teach EJ to be accurate, have a pocket presence and read the whole field, he has a chance. At this point next season hinges on who they find for the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If Lee can teach EJ to be accurate, have a pocket presence and read the whole field, he has a chance. At this point next season hinges on who they find for the QB. I think it is about someone getting into his head and simplifying his thought processes and trusting his instincts. I think EJ second guesses himself. He lets the great be the enemy of the good. To be successful sometimes you have to be willing to throw that ball that your head and eyes tell you is 60/40 and you need to throw it now or else by the time you let go it is a 40/60 ball or the window has completely disappeared and you are forced to take your checkdown. One of the things that Smith siad about Harbaugh's staff arriving in San Fran was they really helped him simplify his thought process. How much of that was Roman? Who knows? I still think the chances are against EJ becoming the answer for us at that position but I would like the new coaching staff to take the time to find out before deciding one way or another. That doesn't mean I necessarily want him to start week 1 by the way... but I'd like them to put the work in during camp and pre-season etc to see if they can get him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 EJ probably has played QB since he was 6 years old. Since he's most likely 23 now, and had personal QB coaches since he was young. What makes anyone think he can automatically start processing information that fast in his head? He's not going to get better, and too bad as he seems like a nice, hard working kid. Is this a joke? Have you never heard other QBs talk about the game slowing down for them after a few seasons of playing? It takes time to figure out NFL defenses and start to just react instead of actively processing and thinking about what's going on. Once that happens the game slows down and it's almost like a "switch" has been flipped. Of course, there is no guarantee this will happen for EJ but to say "if he hasn't done it by now he'll never do it" is simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 As I've listened to the players and coaches over the past couple years, there are a couple themes in the commentary about EJ: 1. He doesn't have an accuracy problem so much as he has a timing problem. The poor timing makes his accuracy look bad. 2. He also has a problem with confidence. It's not a given that Lee can fix either of these. But Lee's been working with QBs since 1975 so I'm guessing he's had to deal with both issues many times before. Let's hope his treasury of experience can lead to improvements in EJ's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't think he came in with a confidence problem. I think Marrone and Hackett's constant "don't make the mistake to lose us the game" refrain and "don't run incase you hurt your knee" probably knocked him a little bit. Rex strikes me as the time who can give players confidence I think that element is going to be on him as the Head Coach rather than the QB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I still want to believe EJ is superior to Geno... There's really no reason to believe that. Geno Smith has certainly shown higher highs than EJ but has also shown (I guess) lower lows but that is really only a function of him actually being willing to take shots down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Here's a quote from Lee about EJ that indicates he at the very least finds positives about the kid: "I’m excited about EJ Manuel,” he said in Mobile. “I liked him coming out and I’m looking forward to working with EJ, that’s for sure. I remember that Florida-Florida State game and he took off and he beat a fast Florida secondary with his legs two or three times. I know what he’s capable of doing. We’ve just got to cut him loose and let him go play.” I think a lot of us around here who are on the fence about EJ feel that he hasn't been given a proper chance to play the game the way that's best for him, and it sounds like Lee feels that way too. We'll see how it works out but I'm encouraged that he says that what needs to be done is to "cut him loose and let him go play" instead of yadda-yadda-yadda about footwork, and release angles, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 There's really no reason to believe that. Geno Smith has certainly shown higher highs than EJ but has also shown (I guess) lower lows but that is really only a function of him actually being willing to take shots down the field. And those high highs have been flashes. I mean mere, tiny flashes. He played a great game against Miami I will give you that - other than that I don't see that many high highs, save for the odd occasional beautifully thrown ball. He looks a smoother, more natural thrower than EJ, but the odd nice ball among a pile of utter rubbish does not a good quarterback make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 David Lee should talk to Jimbo Fisher. Perhaps then Lee can correct the low confidence, slow eyes, inconsistent accuracy, propensity to throw to point targets, and inability to sense a pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You can't shine a turd You can if you freeze it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard bills fan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't think he came in with a confidence problem. I think Marrone and Hackett's constant "don't make the mistake to lose us the game" refrain and "don't run incase you hurt your knee" probably knocked him a little bit. Rex strikes me as the time who can give players confidence I think that element is going to be on him as the Head Coach rather than the QB coach. I agree. I think half the problem with EJ was poor coaching under M/H, and not just with EJ but also with the whole offense. Poor O line play, poor run game, unimaginative play calling all impact one another. Hopefully with better coaching and nonQB offensive play, it would make EJ's performance better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 i'm hoping the combination of EJ's promise to go down swinging, and an offense that can get his 1st and 2d options open more often than not, will result in good things.. sounds like Lee and Roman, and even Comer, will try to fit the system around EJ - and whoever else they pick up - to make that happen.. they have one big advantage going into this year.. Marrone and Hackett showed them what they don't have in EJ, and it would be a waste of everyone's time trying to prioritize the failed 'pocket passer' development plan.. if he's productive enough, in whatever they design, that he earns the starting spot - who knows.. maybe he'll eventually develop into the all-round talent Roman was trying to achieve with Kap.. but first things first.. build the system.. beginning with the O line and running game.. then incorporate the QB into the run game.. then work on the O line and the passing game, and incorporate the QB into that. like all of us, i'm really pulling for the kid, and if they don't get too cute - i think this staff can get his best.. he sounds like he's ready to fight for the job.. we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The goal here should not to turn him into the next Peyton Manning (This simply will not happen). The goal instead MUST be how to make the Bills a more consistent winner and make the playoffs. My sense of what is realistic and to come up with our version of what the Ravens did to win the SB in 2000. In this model, the D must improve from being #4 in league to undoubtedly being #1in the league. With the re-addition of Alonso its like getting a 1st round quality draftee) this is doable. This team can make the playoffs with EJ "improving" not to win every game on h\is own, but instead make sure that like Dilfer for Balt EJ does does not lose the game. Can Lee turn EJ into the top quality QB we want and deserve? Nope. Can Lee bring out the side of EJ that led this team to several nice Ws during his brief career and also suppress the bad EJ who has also led the team to some clunker Ls also in hisbrief career. Its not guaranteed but certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 EJ will start and be a top 15 qb this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeyBomb Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The key here is to play a game that suites Ej Manuel. I believe in the philosophy, if you are going to start your project QB right away, that you need a good O-Line and a game plan that doesn't revolve around the QB. Ej had neither of those things. The coaching staff even took away one of Ej's greatest weapons, HIS LEGS. In my opinion it's hard to bench Ej Manuel based off of four games this year, two in which he played well. If Ej didn't play four games this year, would as many people be saying he's such a turd and they don't want him to start? I think they would still be saying 10 games is not enough... I don't get how 4 games changes things. The kid needs a chance to learn and grow. He needs a chance to succeed in a competent offense with competent coaches helping him and calling competent plays. It's completely RIDICULOUS when I hear everyone saying he's a bust.... Qb's take time. Relax everyone and enjoy the new offense that in my opinion, will maximise Ej's strengths and this teams. I love the new philosophy of groundNpound with a great D. A young, developing QB's best friend. Edited January 22, 2015 by DukeyBomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The real question is.... Will EJ Manuel cost Lee his job I answer is yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeyBomb Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The real question is.... Will EJ Manuel cost Lee his job I answer is yes No, it's actually not. NEXT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The real question is.... Will EJ Manuel cost Lee his job I answer is yes I thought Fitz and Geno already did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoo poonani Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can't shine a turd You can. They did it on Mythbusters. MYTH BUSTED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The truth is this. We won't know until EJ is given the reigns for the season. Why don't you haters create a thread? The official EJ Haters thread. then you whiners can go there and complain all you want and not bother those who think EJ wasn't given a fair chance due to the HC that just quit and feel 14 games is not a proper measuring stick. Edited January 22, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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