Bills Defense, will it get better as season goes on

[North Buffalo]

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

[Governor]

I expect it to improve (against the run) in the playoffs like it did last year but it won’t ever be a “good” defense. Hairston actually being good is the huge unknown here and if he isn’t, we’re absolutely cooked.

[BuffaloBill]

It must improve for the Bills to have a prayer in the playoffs. In particular, the D-line looks to be a mess but with signs of hope on the horizon.

 

* Michael Hecht showed some flashes in pass rush and the ability to effectively set an edge during the preseason. This should help Bosa.

* The Bills young d tackles should improve.

* I assume we will soon get a look at at Landon Jackson soon.  

* Javon Solomon has been a non factor and will likely be inactive when suspended players return.

* Hopefully Ed Oliver returns to form without a nagging injury.

 

[BearNorth]

I find it interesting that both Bosa and Daquan are grading in the top 5 of their positions, and Ed was #1 for the game he played, Groot is in the top 20.  Behind them tho, our secondary looks less than a top crew. The only back 7 players who are grade above the midpoint at their position are Taron and Tre White.  Benford has had a huge fall off.  I think any team with a lot of speed at RB and WR is going to give us problems unless the coaches find a fix.

[Big Turk]

24 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

 

That's typically the way it works especially considering McD's defense is predicted more than any other on everyone doing their job and playing their role properly to succeed and that we will be getting significant reinforcements back by week 7.

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

It must improve for the Bills to have a prayer in the playoffs. In particular, the D-line looks to be a mess but with signs of hope on the horizon.

 

* Michael Hecht showed some flashes in pass rush and the ability to effectively set an edge during the preseason. This should help Bosa.

* The Bills young d tackles should improve.

* I assume we will soon get a look at at Landon Jackson soon.  

* Javon Solomon has been a non factor and will likely be inactive when suspended players return.

* Hopefully Ed Oliver returns to form without a nagging injury.

 

 

Hoecht is going to be a chess piece moved all over the place...that dude is a freak

[strive_for_five_guy]

29 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

Just to be clear, Hoecht and Ogunjobi are both suspended for the first six games.  And Carter is out for the season.  This aside, I definitely think there’s room for their defense to get better as the season progresses, if the injury bug can subside and the younger players show growth.

[balln]

The biggest determinant is the first and second year players developing over the course of the year.  Cole bishop , tj sanders , walker , max, Hancock , maybe strong. I don’t think Landon is gonna do anything this year - I doubt he’s developing at all not dressing/playing. I don’t think Carter is coming back or doing anything anyway with an Achilles injury. 
 

It’s on these guys making a difference. IMO. While I’m hopeful- realistically I don’t think they and our D coaches will affect all time greats Pat Mahommes / Andy or Lamar. Or hurts or Stafford / Mcvay. When it matters 

[Charles Romes]

Carter?  He’s out for the year and was trending toward being bust before the injury 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I have heard a lot of pundits and fans say that this will look like a much better D once we get everyone back. 
 

i have my doubts. I think our core guys are out there, and it’s not getting any better. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's typically the way it works especially considering McD's defense is predicted more than any other on everyone doing their job and playing their role properly to succeed and that we will be getting significant reinforcements back by week 7.

 

Hoecht is going to be a chess piece moved all over the place...that dude is a freak

 

Yup, Hoecth is better than a lot of people realize.  Its like when signed Micah Hyde and so many here didn't think much of it.  I kept saying Hyde was a lot better than people think and GB fans were upset they lost him.  I feel similar with Hoecht, and they are going to love and use his versatility a lot here.  He may not put up gaudy stats given he will be part of a rotation, but I suspect people are not going to be starting threads like "Is Hoecth even playing" because they haven't seen or felt his impact.  

 

I think what a lot of people are overlooking with the defensive concerns (not that the concerns aren't valid, because they have had some issues) - is that we have been without our #1 draft pick and critical speed in our secondary so far, Oliver and Milano have missed games, and we have been without our 2 FA's on suspension, both of which will be critical rotational guys and good players for this team.  Now add in rookies have had to drink from the fire hose a bit to start the season due to suspensions and injuries upfront, and its not hard to see where potential improvement can come from as the season goes on.

 

The D is giving up 15 ppg since getting dog walked 3 1/2 quarters against Balt.  And they had some 3rd down issues against a desperate Miami team.  But, still its 15 PPG against 2 divisional opponents, one of which (Jets) put up a ton of points the week before the played us, and the other is what is supposed to be powerhouse offense loaded with speed.  I don't personally think much of the Jets, but I mean GB just lost to the Browns this week, KC struggled to do much against the Giants until the Giants let Russel Wilson just lose the game for them, etc.  Bills are handling their business and without FIVE key defensive players, 2 of which are amongst their best players, 2 of which were key FA signigns, and the other our top overall draft pick.  

 

Dont get me wrong, I am in a need to see it to believe mode with the D come playoff time.  But I am only pointing out reasons for optimism this year.  Now add in that guys like Bosa and Walker are looking like guys capable of making that extra 1 or 2 stops a game that have been our kryptonite for not having in most of our playoff exits, especially the last 3 KC losses which were all games we lost by 1 score.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

20 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

I find it interesting that both Bosa and Daquan are grading in the top 5 of their positions, and Ed was #1 for the game he played, Groot is in the top 20.  Behind them tho, our secondary looks less than a top crew. The only back 7 players who are grade above the midpoint at their position are Taron and Tre White.  Benford has had a huge fall off.  I think any team with a lot of speed at RB and WR is going to give us problems unless the coaches find a fix.

Those grades are interesting.  I find it painful watching Tre try and play CB in the NFL at this point in his career.  He just doesn't have the movement skills or foot speed to keep up with NFL receivers any longer.  And I wish the coaches would figure that out, this week.  Perfect game coming up against the Saints to start Strong opposite Benford.  And Taron really doesn't do much in pass coverage anymore.  He is just another injury waiting to happen.  The guy plays hard, and his body is beat up at this point.  Overall we have a lot of mediocre athletic guys on the defense.  And the defense seems to be very difficult for a lot of guys to understand.  

 

But I am excited for Hairston and Hecht to come back.  Both are super athletic, and will hopefully give us some juice against the better offenses we play.

[The Jokeman]

46 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

Carter isn't seeing the field this season. 

[QCity]

Probably not. Even though we are getting players back, there still will be more injuries along the way. The schedule gets harder in the 2nd half too, as every game between BAL and KC are against doormats. In the end it may come down to late-season injuries.

[Mark80]

This is dumb.  The Jets had 154 yards.  The Dolphins had 276 yards.  They had 10 and 21 points respectively.  The defense came up with big stops and a turnover at the end of the Ravens game to allow the comeback.  We are down 2 starting DTs, a starting CB, a starting LB.  This is dumb.

[BuffaloBillyG]

47 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

I am obviously concerned... but after next week Bills get  at least one D lineman back from suspension... Carter is growing, Oliver may be back too... Will Harrison return soon... and will safeties improve, which imo is about communicating... linebacker situation seems steady if not spectacular.  Need to improve by end of the season though... Thoughts?

As far as safety goes, I actually think Bishop has been better the last two games. Still has a ways to go, for sure. But he's been a bit better. Rapp is the one that concerns me. With everyone focused on how bad they thought Hamlin was and now Bishop, Rapp has kind of gotten a free pass and flown under the radar. But, he has not been good at all. He's a liability not only for the occasional wreck less hits in teammates he is famous for, but he's just not good enough in coverage. My prediction now by the end of the year (barring injuries) Bishop will grade out better than Rapp.

 

Not sure if Mad Max gets a starting job when he comes back unless there is injury ahead of him, but he will at minimum upgrade the CB3 slot until then. I do think if he gets pressed into start for a few games it will be hard to take that kind of athletic ability off the field. He could easily "Wally Pip" White.

 

Once Oliver comes back it's going to help out. Jones has been sneaky solid this year. I saw somewhere Groot has (yet another) lower leg injury. Story of his career. Through the first 3 games this year Bosa is having a Pro Bowl (if not All Pro) season. Add the PED guys to the mix and I think we are in good shape. 

 

Linebacker. We will see if Milano comes back. Even if he does, I'm not sold on him being the starter. Maybe keep him for specific down and distances. 

 

But even with all that, I don't see this defense being out in position to succeed week in and week out. The play calling on that side of the ball is too passive especially on third downs. Let me also say regarding Babich. I think he is an EXCELLENT coach. I just don't think he's a great play caller. It's one thing to know how to teach the X's and O's (and he seems like an excellent teacher) but it's an entirely other beast being the play caller. 

[billsfan89]

I will give you the optimistic and pessimistic case. 

 

Optimistic Case

 

The Bills currently are missing possibly 5 key players on defense in the early going. The PED Twins are still suspended, Mad Max the teams first round pick is currently hurt, and two key starters in Milano and Ed have week to week injuries. The defense has thus far been OK overall (gashed by the Ravens, shut down the Jets, and did OK against the Fins) will be adding more talent. You could also argue that the team is pacing its self defensively saving its best for the playoffs. The final component would be that you could also make an optimistic case is that the Bills if there are still defensive issues could add a piece at DT or safety if needed at the trade deadline. Not necessarily a major piece put if the Bills need a Rasul Douglas capable starter added I think that could happen. 

 

Pessimistic Case

 

McD just hasn't had much success against quality offenses esp in the playoffs. The Bills shut down a bad Jets offense and then got handled by the Ravens and very easily could have given up 24-28 against a depleted Fins team. The early returns are far from good. Yes there are reinforcements coming but some of these aren't that inspiring. A rookie CB who while drafted fairly high up is still an unknown and two veteran D-line players who while decent aren't game changers. Milano and Ed coming back should help but Milano is older and having an injury early isn't a good sign. Ed is very good and capable of being a game wrecker but not consistently. So while there's help coming how much is that help going to really make an impact. The defense needs a big time impact player not more solid starters. 

 

My case is that I lean more towards the optimistic side of things. I do think Hoecht and Mad Max will help a lot as will Milano and Ed. Larry O could too, certainly won't hurt to see what he has. I also think if they do need some help at DT or safety they can find an addition at the trade deadline that will help even if they aren't a high end impact starter. 

 

I think the defense is and will be much better than last season but there is concern as to how it can hold up against elite offense esp in the playoffs. 

[BigAl2526]

I think there will be improvement.  I don't expect the defense to vault into the best in the league.

[Casey D]

9 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

This is dumb.  The Jets had 154 yards.  The Dolphins had 276 yards.  They had 10 and 21 points respectively.  The defense came up with big stops and a turnover at the end of the Ravens game to allow the comeback.  We are down 2 starting DTs, a starting CB, a starting LB.  This is dumb.

I agree the defense has been Ok the last two weeks.  Moreover, there is every reason to suspect--assuming no catastrophic injuries-- that the D will continue to improve.  First, the young guys will get better with experience and experience in the system.  Hecht and Ogunjobi will join after three more games.  And then there is Hairston.  Add all that together and by December the defense should be performing at a solid B+ level, which should be more than good enough to complement this offense.  But until they do it, they have not done it, and fans with PTSD from this defense in the past will be on edge. 

[Mark Vader]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yup, Hoecth is better than a lot of people realize.  Its like when signed Micah Hyde and so many here didn't think much of it.  I kept saying Hyde was a lot better than people think and GB fans were upset they lost him.  I feel similar with Hoecht, and they are going to love and use his versatility a lot here.  He may not put up gaudy stats given he will be part of a rotation, but I suspect people are not going to be starting threads like "Is Hoecth even playing" because they haven't seen or felt his impact.  

 

I think what a lot of people are overlooking with the defensive concerns (not that the concerns aren't valid, because they have had some issues) - is that we have been without our #1 draft pick and critical speed in our secondary so far, Oliver and Milano have missed games, and we have been without our 2 FA's on suspension, both of which will be critical rotational guys and good players for this team.  Now add in rookies have had to drink from the fire hose a bit to start the season due to suspensions and injuries upfront, and its not hard to see where potential improvement can come from as the season goes on.

 

The D is giving up 15 ppg since getting dog walked 3 1/2 quarters against Balt.  And they had some 3rd down issues against a desperate Miami team.  But, still its 15 PPG against 2 divisional opponents, one of which (Jets) put up a ton of points the week before the played us, and the other is what is supposed to be powerhouse offense loaded with speed.  I don't personally think much of the Jets, but I mean GB just lost to the Browns this week, KC struggled to do much against the Giants until the Giants let Russel Wilson just lose the game for them, etc.  Bills are handling their business and without FIVE key defensive players, 2 of which are amongst their best players, 2 of which were key FA signigns, and the other our top overall draft pick.  

 

Dont get me wrong, I am in a need to see it to believe mode with the D come playoff time.  But I am only pointing out reasons for optimism this year.  Now add in that guys like Bosa and Walker are looking like guys capable of making that extra 1 or 2 stops a game that have been our kryptonite for not having in most of our playoff exits, especially the last 3 KC losses which were all games we lost by 1 score.  

The fans were thrilled when we signed Micah Hyde. It was Jordan Poyer that fans were underwhelmed with.

[MJS]

Yes