Keon Coleman success by route - Not pretty

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

The reason it gets constantly and justifiably brought up is the fact that we are still somewhat deficient in our wr room. I like the speed additions that BB brought in with Moore/Palmer. We had 40 tds scored last season from non wrs. So the contribution table of that 8 game streak of 30 pts is a little skewed.  On the biggest drive of our season in KC, James was out and our receiving corps did not clutch up.  That's a problem. 

 

We're all rooting for Coleman and patience is necessary.  I give every Bills player for the last 60 years at least 3 full seasons to prove yourself.  That's why this is such a critical year for Dalton.  As @Robb Riddick said we could all have egg on our face?  But the Bills still desperately need to find that fast twitch replacement for Diggs. A wr DC's have to gameplan.  And we haven't done that yet. No one is gameplanning for Coleman & Kincaid right now.  That's a problem. 

 

This is just me, but I'd rather be "still somewhat deficient in our WR room" than be "somewhat deficent" on the offensive line or in the defensive backfield.  

 

10 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

No one is saying great WR,so far Colmen isn't even good. It would be nice if fans quit kissing beanes butt and putting their heads in the sand in regards to Kincaid and Coleman JUST because they are on the team.

 

If either were on another team those backing them now would say they sucked and not be giving the bs excuses they are for those players.

 

Bottom line, both need to step up big time this year. 

 

I almost always give rookies and sophomores the benefit of the doubt, especially when they've missed time due to injuries, whether they play for the Bills or another teams.   You can check out my posting history if you want.  I did think Peterman was trash almost from the get-go, and there are probably a few others.

 

The jump from college to the NFL is a big ask, and very few young players, even #1 picks, start out playing at a high level.  

 

FTR, my comment was aimed at the continuous whining by some posters about things that cannot be changed.   The draft is a crap shoot.  Even for first rounders, only a handful are going to become game changers, and some are going to be busts.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

Does this same guy have the routes run % for Addonai Mitchell, Jalen McMilan or Ricky Pearsall (He played inside but also on the outside when they lost Aiyuk) as those would be better comparisons imo.

 

None of these are really fair as Keon didn't get a full season under his belt. I think the whole comparison is totally unfair and Keon will get more opportunities to prove himself.

[LEBills]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

This is just me, but I'd rather be "still somewhat deficient in our WR room" than be "somewhat deficent" on the offensive line or in the defensive backfield.  

 

 

I almost always give rookies and sophomores the benefit of the doubt, especially when they've missed time due to injuries, whether they play for the Bills or another teams.   You can check out my posting history if you want.  I did think Peterman was trash almost from the get-go, and there are probably a few others.

 

The jump from college to the NFL is a big ask, and very few young players, even #1 picks, start out playing at a high level.  

 

FTR, my comment was aimed at the continuous whining by some posters about things that cannot be changed.   The draft is a crap shoot.  Even for first rounders, only a handful are going to become game changers, and some are going to be busts.

In today’s NFL WRs by the end of year two now you know if they are going to be good or not, either by production or efficiency stats. For example, Shakir 2nd year he had a yprr over 2 which is very good. So he was a good player and then year 3 he just got more volume.

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

The reason it gets constantly and justifiably brought up is the fact that we are still somewhat deficient in our wr room. I like the speed additions that BB brought in with Moore/Palmer. We had 40 tds scored last season from non wrs. So the contribution table of that 8 game streak of 30 pts is a little skewed.  On the biggest drive of our season in KC, James was out and our receiving corps did not clutch up.  That's a problem. 

 

We're all rooting for Coleman and patience is necessary.  I give every Bills player for the last 60 years at least 3 full seasons to prove yourself.  That's why this is such a critical year for Dalton.  As @Robb Riddick said we could all have egg on our face?  But the Bills still desperately need to find that fast twitch replacement for Diggs. A wr DC's have to gameplan.  And we haven't done that yet. No one is gameplanning for Coleman & Kincaid right now.  That's a problem. 

 

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

We had a +24 turnover differential last year. +8 more than any other team.  That might happen once every couple of decades. We were 10th in total offense last year.  Good, not great, especially considering a great offensive line and an MVP quarterback.  We clearly lacked explosiveness and playmaking at the receiver position, and haven't done much to address it.  

Guys.  I know.  I was imitating Beane lecturing the fan base.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

Can you explain the 49 year td vs Houston where he faked the Houston db out of his jock on a short pass and then ran 40 yards down the sideline leaving the Houston defense in a cloud of dust if all he can do is catch jump balls?

 

Yea. I don't think Keon is even that good at jump balls. What he IS good at is YAC once he has ball in hand. That is where his mix of agility, athleticism and size is at its most dangerous.

[Jay_Fixit]

This kid is gonna have a breakout year and it will be enjoyable to watch some of

you morons squirm.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If you were gonna take Coleman then you'd have been better taking Ladd IMO. 

On this we agree 100%

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said:

This kid is gonna have a breakout year and it will be enjoyable to watch some of

you morons squirm.

 

They will disappear into the woodwork until he has a bad game or drops a key pass. Then they will be back in force. 

 

I’m hoping for noticeable improvement. Time will tell.  

[Brandon]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm inclined that way myself, though I am admittedly biased in favor of UGA players -- unless Badol is right about Coleman's ceiling and he reaches that unlikely degree of greatness. It's true that Coleman had some reasonable early success, but he responded poorly to injury. Nothing to do but hope at this point. 

 

Yeah, there's nothing that can be done about it now except hope that Coleman can improve.  

 

As it stands now,  I think it's a good example of how they might be better served taking a more flexible approach on scheme fits.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I think we all want him to succeed obviously but it’s just a strange skill set that I’m not really sure ever lends itself to being more than like a third or fourth option. And we all know the other options that were available at the time. They wanted a contested catch guy and that’s what they got. 

[dave mcbride]

32 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

WRs with the profile of Coleman and Boldin almost never succeed in the NFL. But on the rare occasions that they do, they are among the best in the league. Boldin was such a player IMO. Personally, I always loved watching him play and think he should have already been elected to the Football HoF. I hope he makes it this year. 

 

As for comparisons, Boldin has some abilities that we haven’t seen from Coleman yet. Boldin’s hands were phenomenal, even in contested catch situations. We’ve seen glimpses from Coleman, but overall there hasn’t been much to get excited about. He certainly doesn’t attack the ball like Boldin did.

 

It’s early, but toughness is another area when they don’t compare. Boldin was legendary for his toughness. If you think that’s hyperbole, here’s an example:

 

September 2008, during a Week 4 game against the Jets. After hauling in a pass between defenders, Boldin took a helmet-to-helmet shot from safety Eric Smith that left him with a fractured sinus membrane and required surgery and seven plates and 40 screws in his head. Boldin missed the Cardinals’ next two games; in his first three back, he scored five touchdowns. LINK

 

That’s a short article worth reading. Now compare that to what happened with Coleman last season. 

 

Boldin is a Gold Standard for WRs with that profile. It would be amazing to see Coleman get anywhere near that ballpark, but he has a very, very long way to go. 

 

For those who look at his RAS and wonder why he isn’t more dominant, remember RAS only uses supplied data to calculate the score. If a player doesn’t do a drill, it doesn’t get counted in any way. So you can all probably guess how many players do a drill they won’t score well at. Coleman skipped a bunch of them. 

 

Where he did score well is with size and explosion. That’s not nothing. Beane & Co were looking for a WR that could run short routes and break tackles for YAC. He can do that. They also wanted that player to be able to win downfield with at least some contested catch ability. Not great returns there yet, but I’m sure that was the thinking. Many of us saw him as a Big Slot WR (Boldin played almost exclusively on the outside, with only 16% of snaps from the slot) and he’s proven that to be correct, so far at least. The book isn’t written on the kid, but he has a very long way to go. And slot on the Bills is already crowded. 

I remember that hit Boldin took - I watched it live. It was BRUTAL:

 I have long said that if Boldin was the target instead of Lee Evans on that fateful play vs the Pats in the 2011-season afc championship game, there was no way that leigh bodden was gonna knock it out of his hands. Boldin is a first ballot HOFer in my book and was arguably the MVP of the Ravens-Niners SB..

Edited 6 hours ago by dave mcbride

[starrymessenger]

38 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

WRs with the profile of Coleman and Boldin almost never succeed in the NFL. But on the rare occasions that they do, they are among the best in the league. Boldin was such a player IMO. Personally, I always loved watching him play and think he should have already been elected to the Football HoF. I hope he makes it this year. 

 

As for comparisons, Boldin has some abilities that we haven’t seen from Coleman yet. Boldin’s hands were phenomenal, even in contested catch situations. We’ve seen glimpses from Coleman, but overall there hasn’t been much to get excited about. He certainly doesn’t attack the ball like Boldin did.

 

It’s early, but toughness is another area when they don’t compare. Boldin was legendary for his toughness. If you think that’s hyperbole, here’s an example:

 

September 2008, during a Week 4 game against the Jets. After hauling in a pass between defenders, Boldin took a helmet-to-helmet shot from safety Eric Smith that left him with a fractured sinus membrane and required surgery and seven plates and 40 screws in his head. Boldin missed the Cardinals’ next two games; in his first three back, he scored five touchdowns. LINK

 

That’s a short article worth reading. Now compare that to what happened with Coleman last season. 

 

Boldin is a Gold Standard for WRs with that profile. It would be amazing to see Coleman get anywhere near that ballpark, but he has a very, very long way to go. 

 

For those who look at his RAS and wonder why he isn’t more dominant, remember RAS only uses supplied data to calculate the score. If a player doesn’t do a drill, it doesn’t get counted in any way. So you can all probably guess how many players do a drill they won’t score well at. Coleman skipped a bunch of them. 

 

Where he did score well is with size and explosion. That’s not nothing. Beane & Co were looking for a WR that could run short routes and break tackles for YAC. He can do that. They also wanted that player to be able to win downfield with at least some contested catch ability. Not great returns there yet, but I’m sure that was the thinking. Many of us saw him as a Big Slot WR (Boldin played almost exclusively on the outside, with only 16% of snaps from the slot) and he’s proven that to be correct, so far at least. The book isn’t written on the kid, but he has a very long way to go. And slot on the Bills is already crowded. 

Yeah we all remember the hit he took from the two Jets DBs. One of the worse things I've ever seen on a football field (next to Hamlin).

I agree that Boldin is an outlier obviously.  And every big slow receiver gets compared to him without justification.

Where I might disagree with you is in thinking that (without actually being Boldin) he cannot have a very productive career having learned to do the kinds of things that Boldin did. I think I saw enuf from him last year before injury to conclude that it is not unreasonable to project him that way. Boldin was rare. Coleman is a rare specimen.

Edited 6 hours ago by starrymessenger

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I actually think Coleman's ceiling is high but not easily attainable.  

 

He has a lot of traits that remind me of Davante Adams.   Adams has arguably ended up becoming the best WR to come out of that gifted 2014 class.   Mike Evans is great and unbelievably consistent but he was never the best WR in the game like Adams was for several years in his prime.   Once Adams caught up with Evans in 2017 he has been the better player and their career numbers are pretty close despite Adams struggling early due to lacking any one incredible natural trait to allow him to win matchups immediately as a pro.

 

Coleman has that basketball level athleticism with size that you don't see a lot of in the NFL.   That should allow him to develop the nuanced aspects of the position.   He will have to work like Adams did(and prove as smart as Adams) to get that polished and that's probably not "likely" but he seems to be a good character guy so it's possible.   Nothing I saw in 2024 has changed my mind despite his struggles.    I was actually a bit surprised by the success he did have.

That’s almost incredibly optimistic for Coleman but I certainly hope you’re right.

[Chas56]

Keon is starting his second year, his first marred by injury. He is adjusting to going from being one of the best athletes on the field to the pros, where everyone is good. Give the kid a little time. We'll find out if he has it or not by the end of the year. No need to get ahead of ourselves.

 

 

[Billl]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They really didn't. They had a round 1 bust and Josh Palmer. And even when they were getting zero production from them they left Ladd in the slot. Because he is a slot receiver.

Johnston isn’t a bust in any sense of the word.  He had 700+ yards and 8 TDs in 15 games last season as a 22 year old.  You’d take that kind of jump from Coleman in a heartbeat.  

 

That’s not really the point, though.  McConkey is great, but it’s silly to blame Beane for passing on him, as there were plenty of reasons for doing so.  He was an older rookie, had an injury history, wasn’t overly productive in college, doesn’t have great size, and plays a position that was already set.  Did any of that ultimately matter?  No, but that’s pure hindsight.  If Coleman can return to, and build off of, what he was before his injury, he’s a perfectly good pick.  If he remains what he was post injury, he’s a bust.  In any event, the comparisons should be to guys like Worthy, Pearsall, Legette, and Mitchell.

[Starr Almighty]

Steve Smith grades Keon and it's not favorable 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

25 minutes ago, Chas56 said:

Keon is starting his second year, his first marred by injury. He is adjusting to going from being one of the best athletes on the field to the pros, where everyone is good. Give the kid a little time. We'll find out if he has it or not by the end of the year. No need to get ahead of ourselves.

 

 

 

Some people want to live there.

[Royale with Cheese]

I wasn’t very impressed with Coleman.  I don’t think he had a good rookie year outside of about 3 games.

 

He is supposed to be a physical WR at his size and he didn’t show it.  I completely agree with Beane.

[stevestojan]

Only one season. And a fracture in his wrist. But man did I expect more from him. I hope I’m wrong but he might be more personality than ever a WR1 or 2. 

[pennstate10]

9 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

I’ve already said it in another thread. Coleman is the receiver fighting for the final roster spot. 
 

Shakir, Palmer, Moore, Samuels are all making it. 5th spot will be between Coleman and whoever else. 
 

Beane and McDermott were not happy with him. He is not a lock to make the team as many seem to think IMO. Unless he really really makes a jump from last year. 

 

 

Dude was our clear 2nd best WR last year and now is getting cut?