BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Comparing to the chiefs and 49ers the 2 SB teams, here's how I'm going to categorize as elite: -Made 1st team/2nd all pro last year -Top 3/4 at position. (For example, Josh and Mahomes are elite even though they didn't get voted all pros) So for the bills I got 3 players but technically only 2 last year cause the Milano injury. -Josh, Milano, Taron. Chiefs: 7 players -Mahomes, Kelce, thuney, humphries, C Jones, Mcduffie, Sneed 49ers: Hufanga got hurt so technically 7 players -Mccafery, Aiyuk, T Williams, Kittle, Bosa, Warner, Hufanga, Chardavious Ward (I didn't include their fullback) So in the playoffs if you factor in injuries, bills had 2 "elite" players based on the all pro selection/my opinion. Chiefs 7 And 49ers 7 with the Hufanga injury. While the bills have a lot of good to very good players, I really think they are missing some game breakers on this team. What do you guys think? Edited March 11 by BillsFan130 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No 4 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No 1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said: No So far this is going better than I thought, thought I would be getting a bit of disagreement haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Comparing to the chiefs and 49ers the 2 SB teams, here's how I'm going to categorize as elite: -Made 1st team/2nd all pro last year -Top 3/4 at position. (For example, Josh and Mahomes are elite even though they didn't get voted all pros) So for the bills I got 3 players but technically only 2 last year cause the Milano injury. -Josh, Milano, Taron. Chiefs: 7 players -Mahomes, Kelce, thuney, humphries, C Jones, Mcduffie, Sneed 49ers: Hufanga got hurt so technically 6 players -Mccafery, Aiyuk, T Williams, Kittle, Warner, Hufanga, Chardavious Ward (I didn't include their fullback) So in the playoffs if you factor in injuries, bills had 2 "elite" players based on the all pro selection/my opinion. Chiefs 7 And 49ers 6 with the Hufanga injury. While the bills have a lot of good to very good players, I really think they are missing some game breakers on this team. What do you guys think? No. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No It’s been no since 1993 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Just now, BillsFan130 said: So far this is going better than I thought, thought I would be getting a bit of disagreement haha I think it’s pretty obvious this team lacks elite talent, but I’m sure you’ll find some who think otherwise. 17 is carrying this team in a big way. 5 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Hell no they're under talented for the price of the roster 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) No.....and that's a big part of the problem. We are every bit as good as the Chiefs in a lot of ways, mainly thanks to Josh. But with the games we play against them, it is always guys like Kelce and Chris Jones......HUGE IMPACT PLAYERS, that ultimately beat us in the end. We don't have players like that, outside the QB position, that can turn a game by themselves. Diggs is supposed to be one of those guys, but he disappears in the biggest moments against that team. Edited March 10 by sven233 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Comparing to the chiefs and 49ers the 2 SB teams, here's how I'm going to categorize as elite: -Made 1st team/2nd all pro last year -Top 3/4 at position. (For example, Josh and Mahomes are elite even though they didn't get voted all pros) So for the bills I got 3 players but technically only 2 last year cause the Milano injury. -Josh, Milano, Taron. Chiefs: 7 players -Mahomes, Kelce, thuney, humphries, C Jones, Mcduffie, Sneed 49ers: Hufanga got hurt so technically 6 players -Mccafery, Aiyuk, T Williams, Kittle, Warner, Hufanga, Chardavious Ward (I didn't include their fullback) So in the playoffs if you factor in injuries, bills had 2 "elite" players based on the all pro selection/my opinion. Chiefs 7 And 49ers 6 with the Hufanga injury. While the bills have a lot of good to very good players, I really think they are missing some game breakers on this team. What do you guys think? Agreed. The days are gone for spending money on special teams and d line rotations. It a barbell of 5-7 exceptional players, not a lot of very good in the middle and then cheap raw talent at the bottom to balance the cap. We tried to go th very good with a few difference makers and it hasn't worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Just now, julian said: I think it’s pretty obvious this team lacks elite talent, but I’m sure you’ll find some who think otherwise. 17 is carrying this team in a big way. Ya when you really break it down kinda like I did , it's crazy how much Josh carries this team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No that's why I laugh at the "Bills were the best team in the league this year if not (X,Y,Z happened)" crowd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: So far this is going better than I thought, thought I would be getting a bit of disagreement haha Top guys get you over the top, we see it every year in the postseason For example we love taron Johnson for what he brings but the space between his cover ability and McDuffie is enough to knock him from elite status w comparison to chiefs imo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 This has been Beanes biggest issue....he finds a bunch of B/B+ guys to accompany Josh and Stefon, latter is now a B-type guy. It's a solid/very good roster, but not enough star power. Von was supposed to be the elite guy, along with Tre coming back from injury, but things went sideways. We need to be "elite" on one side of the ball at least. Either stack up the defense, or more suitable for this draft, stack the WR room and OL. McDermott is a very good defensive mind and we can win a SB with an elite offense and tier 2 defense. Just need another playmaker, upgrade on Morse, and hopefully we see Kincaid/Shakir continue improving. Rd 1 WR and Rd 2 G/C, just might put us at elite offense...if they hit on the picks and a WR4 in FA. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 The Bills have had really good teams with good depth. What they have been missing are those X factor players. You need 3, and one of them needs to be the QB. The Bills have Josh Allen. Diggs used to be one, but I don't think he is anymore. Tre White was once upon a time, but injuries happened and he is gone. Let's hope some players develop and we have some good drafts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Just now, GoBills808 said: Top guys get you over the top, we see it every year in the postseason For example we love taron Johnson for what he brings but the space between his cover ability and McDuffie is enough to knock him from elite status w comparison to chiefs imo Ya I agree. Taron in my opinion is a very good player, but isn't elite. I was just trying to bring a little objectivity to it as he did get voted 2nd team all pro, so by the rule I made, had to technically say he was "elite" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No For all the love Beane gets, the roster is lacking talent and the cap/contract situation is bad. Allen does everything for this team, including making the coach and GM look better than they are. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) It's pretty premature to call McDuffie a top three cornerback in the NFL lol Plenty of corners have short stints of success and fall off but to be top five you need to get it done for a long time.. he's no prime Gilmore And people thought the Bills middle linebacker would suck this year only to be in shock and awe about how good our development can actually be The bills have plenty of talent established and rising to contend We got destroyed by the injury bug.. and still could have won or tied the game on the last possession before wide right The Gap is not huge It's literally a few plays Edited March 10 by Buffalo716 2 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: It’s been no since 1993 Stick Allen on that 2013 team tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Josh Allen makes up for it as much as he can the only other elite player is Milano Ed Oliver & Taron Johnson are close Kincaid could be elite. Diggs could be elite again, we’ll see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No … Are they capable of beating the Chiefs and 49ers - Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: It's pretty premature to call McDuffie a top three cornerback in the NFL lol Plenty of corners have short stints of success and fall off but to be top five you need to get it done for a long time.. he's no prime Gilmore And people thought the Bills middle linebacker would suck this year only to be in shock and awe about how good our development can actually be The bills have plenty of talent established and rising to contend We got destroyed by the injury bug.. and still lost because of wide right The Gap is not huge If you read my post, I was putting any all pros as elite as I wanted to bring some objectively to this. And he was voted 1st team all pro. Taron isn't elite either in my opinion but I put him in because he was voted 2nd team all pro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 QB check WR 1 not anymore TE/WR 2 maybe EDGE no DT yes LB will see with Milano I'm not as concerned about not having $40M tied up in our starting secondary like we did the last 3 years. It got us bounced early. That money needs to go chunk plays, stops and turnovers. we have 2 yes, and a bunch of maybe right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry jones Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Definitely no. That’s why it pisses me off hearing the so called experts on ESPN and such saying Josh needs to do more. He can only do so much. They need other difference makers on both sides of the ball. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said: QB check WR 1 not anymore TE/WR 2 maybe EDGE no DT yes LB will see with Milano I'm not as concerned about not having $40M tied up in our starting secondary like we did the last 3 years. It got us bounced early. That money needs to go chunk plays, stops and turnovers. we have 2 yes, and a bunch of maybe right now. You think Ed Oliver is a top 3 DT in this league? Chris Jones, Aaron donald, Maduabuike, Jeffrey Simmons, Dexter Lawrence? Probably a few more as well you can debate ahead of Oliver 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Stick Allen on that 2013 team tho I think I’d take high school senior Allen over EJ, Tuel, and Thad Lewis, but it’d be close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 It's an interesting post. I would have Diggs and Cook included in your elites for Buffalo. Douglas is right on the cusp of elite too. After that, the OP premise is correct with many good players like Dawkins, Kincaid, Oliver, and Douglas. Benford and Bernard look well on their way to being very good just need a bigger sample size. Of course we lack an elite HC. But though I refuse to call Beane a genius, he probably is a top 5 and therefore elite GM One last point, an elite QB probably makes up for 5-10 other elite guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: If you read my post, I was putting any all pros as elite as I wanted to bring some objectively to this. And he was voted 1st team all pro. Taron isn't elite either in my opinion but I put him in because he was voted 2nd team all pro I understand that but the bills also have high end talent that isn't all pros either Ed Oliver was top three for pure defensive tackles in the entire NFL for run stuffing tfl... Top three in sacks Purely an animal now in the upper echelon of NFL Diggs , Got suplexed earlier in the season and was clearly hampered the entire year.. still caught over 105 balls for close to 1200 yards That would put him 6th in the AFC... Still completely upper echelon while being banged up Dalton Kincaid broke every bills rookie tight end record... And will probably be a star with Josh Allen Not to mention James Cook was 3d in the NFL in yards from scrimmage for RBs.. James Cook might not be the best running back in the NFL but he had one of the best seasons Douglas literally stepped into our defensive back room and played like an All-Pro from day one.. dude was literally a blanket.. he was so locked in it was very nice Edited March 10 by Buffalo716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No. And Taron isn't "elite" in my opinion. He is top 5 at his limited position, but I have trouble labeling that elite. I know one can make the argument that if you're top 5 at any position, then you're "elite". But I wouldn't call a top 5 long snapper "elite" either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 27 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: So for the bills I got 3 players but technically only 2 last year cause the Milano injury. -Josh, Milano, Taron. Also gotta hope that Milano comes back at 100%. If he loses much he can be good but not elite again. We'll see/hope. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Just now, Buffalo716 said: I understand that but the bills also have high end talent that isn't all pros either Ed Oliver was top three for pure defensive tackles in the entire NFL for run stuffing tfl... Top three in sacks Purely an animal now in the upper echelon of NFL Diggs , Got suplexed earlier in the season and was clearly hampered the entire year.. still caught over 105 balls for close to 1200 yards That would put him 6th in the AFC... Still completely upper echelon while being banged up Dalton Kincaid broke every bills rookie tight end record... And will probably be a star with Josh Allen Not to mention James Cook was second in the NFL in yards from scrimmage.. James Cook might not be the best running back in the NFL but he had one of the best seasons For sure I don't disagree with you that the bills don't have good to very good players. Like Oliver, Dawkins, cook, Douglas, bernard fit that bucket, plus even some more probably. But I still think they lack true game breakers outside of Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No This is correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Einstein said: No. And Taron isn't "elite" in my opinion. He is top 5 at his limited position, but I have trouble labeling that elite. I know one can make the argument that if you're top 5 at any position, then you're "elite". But I wouldn't call a top 5 long snapper "elite" either. I agree with you. I just put him in based on the criteria I put in as I wanted some objectivity. I also don't think he's an elite player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paulson Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: You think Ed Oliver is a top 3 DT in this league? Chris Jones, Aaron donald, Maduabuike, Jeffrey Simmons, Dexter Lawrence? Probably a few more as well you can debate ahead of Oliver Strike Oliver then but when he had Daquan next to him he could do damage. Now we are down to 1 player who is a difference maker and the rest maybes- even bleaker Edited March 10 by Robert Paulson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 9 minutes ago, Einstein said: No. And Taron isn't "elite" in my opinion. He is top 5 at his limited position, but I have trouble labeling that elite. I know one can make the argument that if you're top 5 at any position, then you're "elite". But I wouldn't call a top 5 long snapper "elite" either. Nickel corners play well over 50% of all defensive snaps on almost every team. Taron was 89% last year. His position is hardly limited. Nickel is far more important than a 1 tech DT, an off ball LB, or even your safeties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said: For sure I don't disagree with you that the bills don't have good to very good players. Like Oliver, Dawkins, cook, Douglas, bernard fit that bucket, plus even some more probably. But I still think they lack true game breakers outside of Josh. I don't think Snead or McDuffie are game breakers They are really good cornerbacks.. but they're not deion Sanders... And they're not moving the spread that much The bills had three All pro defensive backs for years and it doesn't stop elite quarterbacks... Josh still balls out versus Kansas City I think mahomes and Kelce and Chris Jones are there pure game wreckers... Hall of Fame guys who can take over any game By and large part cornerbacks do not take over games unless your name is derelle revis or Deion Sanders Tre White and stephon Gilmore we're both elite level corners in Buffalo that had plenty of detractors because even elite corners get beat pretty reg Our own Stefan diggs has made All-Pro Ramsey look like a bench warmer at times lol You need great corners but they don't move the needle much on the spread and they really don't wreck the game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: I agree with you. I just put him in based on the criteria I put in as I wanted some objectivity. I also don't think he's an elite player Why ? He plays the hardest position on the defense and does it very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Just now, Buffalo716 said: I don't think Snead or McDuffie are game breakers They are really good cornerbacks.. but they're not deion Sanders... And they're not moving the spread that much The bills had three All pro defensive backs for years and it doesn't stop elite quarterbacks... Josh still balls out versus Kansas City I think mahomes and Kelce and Chris Jones are there pure game wreckers... Hall of Fame guys who can take over any game By and large part cornerbacks do not take over games unless your name is derelle revis or Deion Sanders Tre White and stephon Gilmore we're both elite level corners in Buffalo that had plenty of detractors because even elite corners get beat pretty reg Our own Stefan diggs has made All-Pro Ramsey look like a bench warmer at times lol You need great corners but they don't move the needle much on the spread and they really don't wreck the game I don't know though. Those guys are unreal. Like even in the SB- Purdy kept testing them and it didn't work out at all. And that's with throwing to Aiyuk/samuel, very good receivers. When he started to go to Jennings, that's where he had success. I think those guys are game breakers as they dictate matchups, but that's just my opinion 2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Why ? He plays the hardest position on the defense and does it very well. I hear you. He just didn't perform too well in key situations ImO -Gave up game winning TD to Gesicki -Set up game winning field goal for Denver after blatant 25 yard PI call. And let's be honest, he got away with murder when he hauled down Darren Waller in that giants last play. Thats a lot of key mistakes for an "elite" player in my humble opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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