Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: I don't know though. Those guys are unreal. Like even in the SB- Purdy kept testing them and it didn't work out at all. And that's with throwing to Aiyuk/samuel, very good receivers. When he started to go to Jennings, that's where he had success. I think those guys are game breakers as they dictate matchups, but that's just my opinion I hear you. He just didn't perform too well in key situations ImO -Gave up game winning TD to Gesicki -Set up game winning field goal for Denver after blatant 25 yard PI call. And let's be honest, he got away with murder when he hauled down Darren Waller in that giants last play. Thats a lot of key mistakes for an "elite" player in my humble opinion Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Brock purdy... He is s a complete system quarterback and San Francisco will regret it if they give him hundreds of millions of dollars Put prime fits on San Francisco with all those weapons... He'd be the guy with the MVP consideration... It's shanahan's offense Fitz has 200 touchdowns in over 30,000 yards playing with mainly scrubs and bad teams Edited March 10 by Buffalo716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Brock purdy Put prime fits on San Francisco with all those weapons... Fitz has 200 touchdowns in over 30,000 yards playing with mainly scrubs and bad teams Its not just against SF. Their defence was top 3 in the nfl all season. I don't think Purdy is good as well, but at the end of the day they had a very successful passing offence all season long because of all Their weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Its not just against SF. Their defence was top 3 in the nfl all season. I don't think Purdy is good as well, but at the end of the day they had a very successful passing offence all season long because of all Their weapons Kansas City has a very good defense.. it literally takes three levels of cohesion to have a top NFL defense The best cornerbacks in the world cannot cover if you do not have a pass rush... If the opposing quarterback has five seconds in the pocket every play you will get torched by Blaine gabbert And vice versa if you have the best defensive line in the world.. or one of the best that constantly collapses pockets.. lesser cornerbacks look better because they don't have to cover as long A good pass rush has always masked bad coverage for 60 years Kansas City has a pass rush.. and good cornerbacks Of course they have a good defense they are built the right way.. they can get to the quarterback and they have guys who can cover But if they couldn't get to the quarterback those guys who are covering wouldn't matter because even Hall of famers get exposed when they have to run for 5 seconds The longer the play is the bane of any NFL CB... Which is why guys like Josh Allen and Patrick mahomes have so much success because they can buy time Edited March 10 by Buffalo716 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No. I posted this thought earlier today. Other than Allen, there’s no elite player on the Bills. They have some really good ones - Oliver, Milano, Cook, Dawkins, Kincaid and probably still Diggs for another season. But no one besides Allen is keeping HCs and coordinators up at night. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Kansas City has a very good defense.. it literally takes three levels of cohesion to have a top NFL defense The best cornerbacks in the world cannot cover if you do not have a pass rush... If the opposing quarterback has five seconds in the pocket every play you will get torched by Blaine gabbert And vice versa if you have the best defensive line in the world.. or one of the best that constantly collapses pockets.. lesser cornerbacks look better because they don't have to cover as long A good pass rush has always masked bad coverage for 60 years Kansas City has a pass rush.. and good cornerbacks Of course they have a good defense they are built the right way.. they can get to the quarterback and they have guys who can cover But if they couldn't get to the quarterback those guys who are covering wouldn't matter because even Hall of famers get exposed when they have to run for 5 seconds I know, I understand how a successful defence works. The coverage has to marry the pass rush, and vice versa. Like I could argue and say Chris jones wouldn't make an impact as well if the corners can't cover for 2 seconds If you don't think they are game breakers, all good. We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree Edited March 10 by BillsFan130 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Brown Eye Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Nickel corners play well over 50% of all defensive snaps on almost every team. I think you're confusing a team playing nickel with a dedicated nickel corner playing time. Many times play their outside CB at nickel (see McDuffie who flips on and off between nickel and boundary). 19 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: Nickel is far more important than a 1 tech DT, an off ball LB, or even your safeties. lol - no. Nickel CB wasn't even an all-pro vote until literally this year. Edited March 10 by Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 This isn’t difficult. Of course we do but It’s not the talent. It’s the person capping the talent potential by poor game management. That is the answer to why we havent won squat yet and until a change is made, it’ll be the same old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I don't think Snead or McDuffie are game breakers They are really good cornerbacks.. but they're not deion Sanders... And they're not moving the spread that much The bills had three All pro defensive backs for years and it doesn't stop elite quarterbacks... Josh still balls out versus Kansas City I think mahomes and Kelce and Chris Jones are there pure game wreckers... Hall of Fame guys who can take over any game By and large part cornerbacks do not take over games unless your name is derelle revis or Deion Sanders Tre White and stephon Gilmore we're both elite level corners in Buffalo that had plenty of detractors because even elite corners get beat pretty reg Our own Stefan diggs has made All-Pro Ramsey look like a bench warmer at times lol You need great corners but they don't move the needle much on the spread and they really don't wreck the game If your threshold for elite DBs is Deion Sanders and Revis then only Champ Bailey is elite lol McDuffie and Sneed are definitely elite rn 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 No. Which is why when people outlined Joe Marino’s off-season, it seems like a very plausible and likely prediction of what the Bills will do. Which is what we’ve been doing. Build a strong team, with good depth all over. And that’s great for the regular season. Helps you withstand injuries (to a normal extent). Allows for fresh bodies at certain position groups. But then we get to the Playoffs, and nobody but Josh Allen steps up in the big games. Kelce does. Jones does. We don’t have that surrounding Allen. So do we spend on one big time FA if one is available? Do we trade up and sacrifice picks/future picks? Or do we stay the course and hope Kincaid, maybe Bernard (?), whoever is at 28 etc can be those superstar big game difference makers? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: If your threshold for elite DBs is Deion Sanders and Revis then only Champ Bailey is elite lol McDuffie and Sneed are definitely elite rn I didn't say the word elite I used the word game breaker which he used also... To me a game breaker is somebody who can single-handedly wreck a game... Destroy the other teams game plan Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen are game breakers... Tyreek Hill is a game breaker.. Chris Jones is a game breaker.. myles garrett... guys who single-handedly can destroy a game plan The bills have had two All-Pro cornerbacks here in the last 10 years.. Stefan Gilmore is going to the Hall of Fame He's one of my favorite football players ever and I would never say Gilmore is a game breaker.. he's elite.. he does not destroy game plans Neither does Sneed or McDuffie They might be elite level NFL cornerbacks but I separate that from being a game breaker which is somebody who could single-handedly take over a game The only corners I've ever seen take over a game are revis prime time and I like the champ Bailey Edited March 11 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, SCBills said: No. Which is why when people outlined Joe Marino’s off-season, it seems like a very plausible and likely prediction of what the Bills will do. Which is what we’ve been doing. Build a strong team, with good depth all over. And that’s great for the regular season. Helps you withstand injuries (to a normal extent). Allows for fresh bodies at certain position groups. But then we get to the Playoffs, and nobody but Josh Allen steps up in the big games. Kelce does. Jones does. We don’t have that surrounding Allen. So do we spend on one big time FA if one is available? Do we trade up and sacrifice picks/future picks? Or do we stay the course and hope Kincaid, maybe Bernard (?), whoever is at 28 etc can be those superstar big game difference makers? Ya this is exactly it. You got to think Beane knew they were missing some elite talent when they swung for the fences with Von in 2022. Just unfortunately did not workout for them and it's gonna be a big relief when his contract clears off the books 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I didn't say the word elite I used the word game breaker which he used also... To me a game breaker is somebody who can single-handedly wreck a game... Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen are game breakers... Tyreek Hill is a game breaker.. Chris Jones is a game breaker.. single-handedly can destroy a game plan The bills have had two All-Pro cornerbacks here in the last 10 years.. Stefan Gilmore is going to the Hall of Fame He's one of my favorite football players ever and I would never say Gilmore is a game breaker.. he's elite.. he does not destroy game plans Neither does Sneed or McDuffie They might be elite level NFL cornerbacks but I separate that from being a game breaker which is somebody who could single-handedly take over a game The only corners I've ever seen take over a game are revis prime time and I like the champ Bailey Ok maybe I used the word "game breakers" a bit loosely. But they are elite players who are a massive part of a top 3 defence, who went on to win a superbowl . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Ya this is exactly it. You got to think Beane knew they were missing some elite talent when they swung for the fences with Von in 2022. Just unfortunately did not workout for them and it's gonna be a big relief when his contract clears off the books Ok maybe I used the word "game breakers" a bit loosely. But they are elite players who are a massive part of a top 3 defence, who went on to win a superbowl . Absolutely and the bills need to keep acquiring talent via the draft to keep up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 No, they do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I didn't say the word elite I used the word game breaker which he used also... To me a game breaker is somebody who can single-handedly wreck a game... Destroy the other teams game plan Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen are game breakers... Tyreek Hill is a game breaker.. Chris Jones is a game breaker.. myles garrett... guys who single-handedly can destroy a game plan The bills have had two All-Pro cornerbacks here in the last 10 years.. Stefan Gilmore is going to the Hall of Fame He's one of my favorite football players ever and I would never say Gilmore is a game breaker.. he's elite.. he does not destroy game plans Neither does Sneed or McDuffie They might be elite level NFL cornerbacks but I separate that from being a game breaker which is somebody who could single-handedly take over a game The only corners I've ever seen take over a game are revis prime time and I like the champ Bailey I just refer to Super Bowl re McDuffie He had two huge pbu...one where he put Deebo in his pocket, one blitz pass breakup iirc.. He was their MVP in the biggest moment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khlax3 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) I personally wouldn’t consider cook elite yet but he is close and based on your criteria of top 3-4 his position his stats suggest he is. 2023 cook finished: 3rd is rushing 8th in receiving for rb 3 all purpose yards his tds were low but that’s because they just let Allen rush anytime we are inside the 5 yard line. I am not disagreeing that we don’t have enough top talent but Kincaid, cook, and potentially Bernard could move into that category soon. The problem to me is we do not have top talent where it matters most. Dline, CB, WR Edited March 11 by khlax3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: I understand that but the bills also have high end talent that isn't all pros either Ed Oliver was top three for pure defensive tackles in the entire NFL for run stuffing tfl... Top three in sacks Purely an animal now in the upper echelon of NFL Diggs , Got suplexed earlier in the season and was clearly hampered the entire year.. still caught over 105 balls for close to 1200 yards That would put him 6th in the AFC... Still completely upper echelon while being banged up Dalton Kincaid broke every bills rookie tight end record... And will probably be a star with Josh Allen Not to mention James Cook was 3d in the NFL in yards from scrimmage for RBs.. James Cook might not be the best running back in the NFL but he had one of the best seasons Douglas literally stepped into our defensive back room and played like an All-Pro from day one.. dude was literally a blanket.. he was so locked in it was very nice Diggs being “6th in the AFC” in yards is a really fancy way of saying 13th in the NFL, barely edging out Michael Pittman, George Pickens and Davante Adam’s who all played with bum QB’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FireChans said: Diggs being “6th in the AFC” in yards is a really fancy way of saying 13th in the NFL, barely edging out Michael Pittman, George Pickens and Davante Adam’s who all played with bum QB’s. Professional bum quarterback can still get the ball to good wide receivers Josh Gordon went for 1700 yards playing with lower echelon bum NFL quarterbacks If the team thinks you're a playmaker they will get you the ball... And diggs was obviously hobbled... He was slow to get up the entire second half of the season... Still had 105 catches I'd wager he'll go back to 1250 yards next year in an offense that is starting to run the ball more Edited March 11 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said: Ya I agree. Taron in my opinion is a very good player, but isn't elite. I was just trying to bring a little objectivity to it as he did get voted 2nd team all pro, so by the rule I made, had to technically say he was "elite" This is why Taron is a nickel corner. He is darn good but not elite. Top nickel corners tend to fit this mold. Our biggest problem right now at the CB 2 spot is Elam…this will be a make or break year for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 They had 1 players in PFFs top 101 of 2023. They have nowhere near enough top end talent. They are a balanced deep roster but lack “elite” talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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