Nyheim Hines will not be a cap casualty for FA (Edit: Wrong)

[Doc Brown]

I don't care what Beane says at the presser.  If he can save 4.9 million by cutting him he's going to do it.

Edited January 25 by Doc Brown

[Process]

Uh he better be cut...

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Nephilim17 said:

Wanted to check this and yes, his salary hit is $5,480,000 with just $500,000 dead if cut.

I can't see how a backup RB — even if he returns kicks — can make this money.

his 2024 base salary is slotted to be the 7th highest weekly paycheck for a running back in the entire league

 

he will either need a drastic rework or new team. He can’t be a top ten salary and if cut not a single team would pay it. Knock on wood he sees that.

53 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’m predicting that even if they halve his money come March like they did last year …people are still gunna say he is over paid 

they could cut his total cash payout next year in half and still be the 16th highest paid back in the league without being our starter. 
 

so yes. He could cut it in half and be too highly compensated.

[BillsFanForever19]

56 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I don't care what Beane says at the presser.  If he can save 4.9 million by cutting him he's going to do it.

 

54 minutes ago, Process said:

Uh he better be cut...

 

It's not going to happen. Not at least until after the Pre-Season, if he proves to have lost a step.

 

We could have voided his deal completely last year and been completely scot free of paying him a dime last year or this year. We didn't do it then, so why would they do it now that he's ready to come back and both Beane and he said he's coming back?

 

I'm sure his number will drop via a paycut or some kind of restructure. But he'll be here.

Edited January 25 by BillsFanForever19

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

they could cut his total cash payout next year in half and still be the 16th highest paid back in the league without being our starter. 
 

so yes. He could cut it in half and be too highly compensated.

Time will tell buddy … time will tell,,,

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We'll see. If he's the same player he was in Indianapolis and hasn't lost a step - this is absolutely incorrect.

Even if he’s the same exact guy…..I’d rather give it to cook or ty

[BillsFanForever19]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Even if he’s the same exact guy…..I’d rather give it to cook or ty

 

Situationally, they still will. Cook is the starter and will take the majority of the hand offs. Johnson showed better tough yardage running than Murray or Cook and will be used there and when Cook needs a breather. Hines on occasional passing downs, maybe as part of 2 RB packages or in motion in conjunction with Kick and Punt Returns.

 

We always carry 3 RB's on Game Day. We carried 4 when Taiwan Jones was being used on Special Teams. We can carry Cook, Johnson, and Hines and maybe even 1 more with Hines doing a lot of Special Teams work.

[Matt_In_NH]

9 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

Hopefully our OC a would figure out how to utilize him in the offense.

He should

figure out how to use Diggs while he is at it

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Situationally, they still will. Cook is the starter and will take the majority of the hand offs. Johnson showed better tough yardage running than Murray or Cook and will be used there and when Cook needs a breather. Hines on occasional passing downs, maybe as part of 2 RB packages or in motion in conjunction with Kick and Punt Returns.

 

We always carry 3 RB's on Game Day. We carried 4 when Taiwan Jones was being used on Special Teams. We can carry Cook, Johnson, and Hines and maybe even 1 more with Hines doing a lot of Special Teams work.

So 5M and an extra roster spot for a RB…..

 
Keeping him hurts the team.  Doesn’t matter how good he is.  Speed RB coming off knee reconstruction or w/e he had.  4 RBs- just poor

[BillsFanForever19]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

So 5M and an extra roster spot for a RB…..

 
Keeping him hurts the team.  Doesn’t matter how good he is.  Speed RB coming off knee reconstruction or w/e he had.  4 RBs- just poor

 

The 5 will surely come down somehow. Whether they can move some stuff around in the contract or an out right pay cut.

 

And we always keep 4 RB's on the 53. 2022 we had Singletary, Cook, Moss (than Hines) and Jones. 2023 we went into the season with Cook, Harris, Murray, and Johnson. We only moved to 3 when Murray went down and we needed an extra spot elsewhere.

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The 5 will surely come down somehow. Whether they can move some stuff around in the contract or an out right pay cut.

 

And we always keep 4 RB's on the 53. 2022 we had Singletary, Cook, Moss (than Hines) and Jones. 2023 we went into the season with Cook, Harris, Murray, and Johnson. We only moved to 3 when Murray went down and we needed an extra spot elsewhere.

We went into the 2023 season with cook, Harris, Murray and Johnson on the active roster?

 

 

Edited January 25 by NewEra

[BillsFanForever19]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We went into the 2023 season with cook, Harris, Murray and Johnson on the active roster?

 

Actually, you're right. My mistake. He was like the last cut and was presumed on the 53 until it was announced. 

 

So last year was the one exception. Every other year under McDermott we kept 4.

[NewEra]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Actually, you're right. My mistake. He was like the last cut and was presumed on the 53 until it was announced. 

 

So last year was the one exception. Every other year under McDermott we kept 4.

He was “presumed” to be on the roster?  Presumed by whom?  I never thought we were going to keep 4 RBs.  Would have been a mistake just like keeping Hines will be a burden to our roster and cap.  
 

I won’t underestimate what Beanes “word” is worth.  It does mean a lot.  But I stand on keeping him and paying him anything does nothing but hurt this team in 2024

 

agree to disagree

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

It's not going to happen. Not at least until after the Pre-Season, if he proves to have lost a step.

 

We could have voided his deal completely last year and been completely scot free of paying him a dime last year or this year. We didn't do it then, so why would they do it now that he's ready to come back and both Beane and he said he's coming back?

 

I'm sure his number will drop via a paycut or some kind of restructure. But he'll be here.

That's the only way that will happen and why didn't you lead off with that?  It's possible they already have a major pay cut or restructure in place.

[BillsFanForever19]

35 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

That's the only way that will happen and why didn't you lead off with that?  It's possible they already have a major pay cut or restructure in place.

 

I mean, I did kind of touch on that in the last paragraph of the OP.

Edited January 25 by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I'm not a capologist, so I don't know if there's any massaging that can be done to his contract to create some relief somewhere. But it's pretty clear that unless he is completely physically unable to perform, Nyheim Hines will be one of our RB's behind James Cook.

 

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I mean, I did kind of touch on that in the last paragraph of the OP.

I just read this as you think he's coming back next year regardless of his contract which is ludicrous because you don't pay a backup running back five million dollars.  Especially how tight against the cap this team is.  To me him and Hardy are the most obvious cut candidates as it saves you nine million dollars.  If Hines stays on the team I expect him to take a major pay cut because I doubt any other team is going to pay him above the veteran minimum for an aging RB coming off an ACL tear.

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Time will tell buddy … time will tell,,,

you think if we cut him he’s signing a top 10-15 contract? If not, you agree and just don’t like that you do. 

[Don Otreply]

I have no issues with him “competing” for a spot on the team, but if he doesn’t trust his knee repair and isn’t up to it performance wise he needs to be let go, jmo. 

[The Jokeman]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

It seems like Nyheim Hines and Deonte Harty are two luxuries for we can’t really afford to have both of, but we shall see. 

I'd rather have Hines and Harty than Matakevich and Siran Neal. 

 

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Dime a dozen? The guy had two returns for a TD in the same game. How many times have you seen that?

 

You can argue your opinion of his value all you want. That's not the point of the post. The point is he's not getting cut before the final cutdown. And unless he shows he's lost a step or is clearly beat out, probably won't be cut at all.

 

You're not serious with that.  KO returns for TDs are les than 1% league-wide every year--he only has those 2 so there's no reason to believe that's "his thing".  Lightning struck twice in one game--that is his singular career achievement.  Also, he has, on Offense, 546 career touches and less than 3000 yards from scrimmage....in 5 years.

 

What about the other 9 games in his Buffalo career (or his other 81 career games)?  The Bills staff could not find anything for this guy to do. He ran 6 times for -3 yards, targeted 9 times, caught 5 balls for 53 yards.   The guy was invisible...other than for one day. 

 

He is absolutely a dime a dozen RB. If they keep him, it's not clear why. He (once) helped the Bills beat up a crappy NE team in 2022.  That's the alpha and the omega of this guy's career here.

[T master]

If Hines does come back then get rid of Harty, he for sure can't be any worse than Harty was at running back kicks . But with that i would rather see Ty Johnson come back the guy was a improvement for the running game this year but kick returns could be much better !! 

[The Jokeman]

Just now, T master said:

If Hines does come back then get rid of Harty, he for sure can't be any worse than Harty was at running back kicks . But with that i would rather see Ty Johnson come back the guy was a improvement for the running game this year but kick returns could be much better !! 

Ty should be back for RB3 duties and maybe a return man, I'm just not sure he has the speed/agility to fully excel in the role. I'm sure we'll bring in a bigger back to fill the Harris/Murray role and think best to go with a rookie unless AJ Dillon signs a low cost deal. 

[Captain Hindsight]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Just don’t lose Ty Johnson

He takes Murry's role. Hines can fill multiple positions (PR, KR, receiving back) If they bring back Brady, who is aware that RBs exist, Hines becomes a bigger weapon 

[ngbills]

27 year old Rb, which is getting up there for rb’s, coming off an Acl and is not an impact player or ever been one, getting $5m. No thank you. 

[NoSaint]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're not serious with that.  KO returns for TDs are les than 1% league-wide every year--he only has those 2 so there's no reason to believe that's "his thing".  Lightning struck twice in one game--that is his singular career achievement.  Also, he has, on Offense, 546 career touches and less than 3000 yards from scrimmage....in 5 years.

 

What about the other 9 games in his Buffalo career (or his other 81 career games)?  The Bills staff could not find anything for this guy to do. He ran 6 times for -3 yards, targeted 9 times, caught 5 balls for 53 yards.   The guy was invisible...other than for one day. 

 

He is absolutely a dime a dozen RB. If they keep him, it's not clear why. He (once) helped the Bills beat up a crappy NE team in 2022.  That's the alpha and the omega of this guy's career here.

Yea, I still think he could be a really nice fit in the offense as a pass catching back… but it’s just not unique enough of a skill set and he has enough question marks that his salary is like triple what it should slot up as compared to his peers. 
 

that Dorsey didn’t use him the way brady used our backs doesn’t worry me much - but it’s a major injury and now we have an established RB1 that I imagine will be working hard to round out his own pass catching to steal touches in that role.

[TheFunPolice]

can we just cut him and then pay him a legal settlement of $5 instead so it doesn't count against the cap? 

 

Look, unfortunate accident for Hines, but it's not the team's fault and he never has been an impact RB in the league. Now he's 27 and recovering from a torn ACL, so next season will be his Von Miller season, making it 2025 before he has a real impact, if ever. 

[Xwnyer]

8 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

He should

figure out how to use Diggs while he is at it

they need to figure out how to design passing routes that don't flood everyone into the same area.

[Utah John]

18 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

He was ok on special teams when they bought him in midway through 2022 … we dont know how he would go on O because they never gave him a chance …just another player they didn’t trust because he “hadn’t learnt the system “..

Interesting point.  He's been working on his rehab.  Has he been doing that in Buffalo so he could attend team meetings and "learn the system"?

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Among most, if not all, posts talking about freeing up cap space - Nyheim Hines being released is mentioned. 

 

And in a vacuum, it seems like a no brainer type of move. But it appears it's not going to happen.

 

I've touched on this in other posts a bit before but there's factors at play here. When the injury occured, his agent started speaking up about filing a grievance if he wasn't taken care of. Then it all went away.

 

Beane and he came to an agreement. Hines would keep a portion of his money and not be released and in turn, most of his money for last season would come off the books - freeing up some cap space for last year and Hines and his people wouldn't file a grievance.

 

I've been almost positive part of that agreement was he wouldn't be cut and given every opportunity to reclaim his job. Hines has said that he's going to be a Bill this year

 

I said the same thing at the time.  I don't think Hines would have won a grievance (his injury was clearly not football or football-training related, and arguably involved hazardous activities prohibited under contract language).  But a grievance and appeal would have tied up cap $$ the Bills needed, so they worked a deal.

 

Unless he can't perform or totally flubs on the "skill" thing, he'll be a Bill

 

18 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Perhaps he'll take a pay cut or there's a way they can restructure it to create space. But pre injury, he was one of the better pass catching RB's in the league and a top returner with rare speed for a RB. Those are valued traits you can't just find anywhere.

 

The Bills could 100% restructure Hines to create space.  He's got a cap hit of $5.4M next year, of which $4M is salary.  His salary could be lowered to vet min and the rest converted to signing bonus and amortized.  That said --- this is a move the Bills really should reserve for players whose long-term futures with the team they have confidence in. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Xwnyer said:

they need to figure out how to design passing routes that don't flood everyone into the same area.

 

They don't do this.

As @HoofHearted pointed out, at times when we see receivers in the same area at the end of the play, its when the play has been extended and there are "scramble rules " in place.  Ideally, scramble rules would be Mouse Davis style "secondary route concepts" - Beasley excelled at this, and I do think there was a drop off here when Beasley then Daboll left: I think the secondary route concepts became simplified "scramble rules". 

 

But the point is, after the receivers run their routes there has to be a lot decision making allowed to them under scramble rules and more reliance on field vision/individual read of the D and situational awareness.

There are also times when 2 receivers are in the same area, it's by design to create confliction or obstruction ("pick") for defenders

Edited January 25 by Beck Water

[Utah John]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I have no issues with him “competing” for a spot on the team, but if he doesn’t trust his knee repair and isn’t up to it performance wise he needs to be let go, jmo. 

Sure, of course.  If the rehab isn't successful completely and he can't do what got him into the league anymore, he's gone, unfortunately for everyone.  But that's the case for everyone.  If they can't do the job, someone else who can is waiting for the slot.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Utah John said:

Interesting point.  He's been working on his rehab.  Has he been doing that in Buffalo so he could attend team meetings and "learn the system"?

I haven’t heard about his rehab … but I was referring to the 2022 season when they acquired him in a mid season trade and only used him on the O a handful of times ….which seemed a bit of a waste to me ..

 

There will be a different O being installed by whoever the new OC is in 2024 in any event 

[msw2112]

Dorsey, and even Daboll before him, never threw the ball to RBs.  Hines wasn't used in this way, nor was Cook.  Since Brady took over, this has become a bigger part of the offense.  If Hines' recovery is successful and he can return to form, he can help the team.  He was a very good receiving and change of pace back in Indy and that's why the Bills traded for him in the first place.  He also could be the primary kick returner, particularly if Harty is gone (which I expect).

 

That said, I like Cook and Johnson and see both of them ahead of Hines on the depth chart right now, and they need at least one bigger back who can handle pass blocking and short yardage.  Thus, Hines' skill set may be too redundant with Cook and Johnson's and there may not be room for him on the roster.  We'll see.

[colin]

21 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That may or may not be true. But it doesn't change the fact that he will not be told "goodbye".

 

And he absolutely would have made the squad last year. We wouldn't have signed Damien Harris or Latavius Murray if he were on the roster.

 

We gave up a pick and a player for him and said before the injury he was being brought on slow in 2022 because he was just learning the playbook and that they had big plans for him.

 

Perhaps he'll take a pay cut or there's a way they can restructure it to create space. But pre injury, he was one of the better pass catching RB's in the league and a top returner with rare speed for a RB. Those are valued traits you can't just find anywhere.

 

that's a really good point.

 

if he replaces 11 and 28, then we can draft a banger back in like the 6th round or something and have our RB room complete, and rookie can go to st if needed or whatever.

 

joe marino of locked on bills mentioned we went from being ranked 1st in special teams to not so good in one year.  aside from bass losing his damn mind, hines was the missing bit.

 

big returns win games, and who knows, maybe the kid can use his insane speed on o once in a while.  i have much more faith in brady or his replacement than dorsey

[Aussie Joe]

Couple of “strays” over here ….

 

[T master]

If this is going to be at the expense of a player like Harty I'd say yah but not Ty Johnson i hope they bring him back he was a good back & always seemed to have positive yardage he would be a good one to resign and Hines could go back to ST's as a returner freeing up Harty's cap hit for 2024 .

[BillsFanForever19]

13 minutes ago, T master said:

If this is going to be at the expense of a player like Harty I'd say yah but not Ty Johnson i hope they bring him back he was a good back & always seemed to have positive yardage he would be a good one to resign and Hines could go back to ST's as a returner freeing up Harty's cap hit for 2024 .

 

Ty will be back, I'm sure. Played as the 3rd/4th RB on the depth chart for us last year. It's brutal for RB's in the FA market. No one's going to be beating down the door for an RB2/3. He's earned it and I'm sure he'll want to return. And it should cost us little to nothing. 

 

Hines just replaces Murray in the backfield and Harty on Returns. Cook and Ty maintain their roles. Probably will Draft a guy in the late Rounds as well to replace Harris as a heavy and/or development.

Edited February 3 by BillsFanForever19

[T master]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Ty will be back, I'm sure. Played as the 3rd/4th RB for us last year. It's brutal for RB's in the FA market. No one's going to be beating down the door for an RB2/3. He's earned it and I'm sure he'll want to return. And it should cost us little to nothing. 

 

Hines just replaces Murray in the backfield and Harty on Returns. Cook and Ty maintain their roles. Probably will Draft a guy in the late Rounds as well to replace Harris as a heavy and/or development.

 

I've always wanted a big back, last season they had 2 i hope 1 of them come back as long as the money was right .

 

 5' 10" & 209 lbs is okay but i like the 6' 1" 230 lber on the goal line & short yardage & seeing the difference in production between Harty & Murray and the fact that Hines can do kicks it wouldn't hurt me if Murray was back again at the right money .

[noacls]

11 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Couple of “strays” over here ….

 

Wow! Entitlement at its finest. Seems like a great attitude to have on the team. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Although it wasn't a car, Hines called William Mattar, sued SeaDoo, and got a big settlement.  He's coming back to play strictly for the love of the game, and a $25 concession stand card for each game.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, noacls said:

Wow! Entitlement at its finest. Seems like a great attitude to have on the team. 

 

He's not wrong though... not everyone is on an NFL roster, much less playing or starting. So many keyboard warriors out there...