Spags didn't think Josh could stay patient

[PayDaBill$]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Can someone hire Spags as a HC, already? Get him the heck out of our playoff path. 

There are plenty of other teams in the afc that’ll be competitive .  Cincy Baltimore KC Houston Miami SD (if they make the right hire). 
 

JA’s game is physical, unless he drastically changes his style as he gets older,  realistically how many seasons is our  window of opportunity at a legit SB shot?

 

McD has seemed to reach a ceiling, how long do you stay the course? He’s had his opportunity.

Edited January 23 by PayDaBill$

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Chiefs were chucking pass catchers off the line, Kincaid included. The biggest thing he needs to work on this offseason is improving his physicality off the line, either get stronger or find nuanced ways to work through the trash. Once he's won the initial release there is not much to improve in his game but too frequently he is getting knocked down or re-routed.

 

The biggest criticism I have for Brady and the offensive structure is overall lack of crispness. For example there are times where less detailed routes allow conflict defenders to cover both areas. The 2nd play of the game is a good example of this, the one where the safety drove on Diggs on seemingly a skinny post(?) and he couldn't come down with the catch. On that play Allen is clearly reading a high/low between Kincaid and Diggs. But Diggs is slow on his break and doesn't clear into the 2nd window fast enough to give Allen a clean read. Worse, he drifts upfield towards the safety instead of flattening his route into clear grass.

 

And that's just one example of one particular problem I noticed on the all-22. Plenty more where that came from. As I've said a dozen times it is minor details like this that end up being the difference between playoff wins and losses. The Chiefs nail those details time and time again and I have to think superior coaching on both sides of the ball is the only reason why.

Couldn't agree more on the route running

 

We just aren't talented enough, in all areas including coaching, to be polished in the postseason 

 

It's why this current iteration of the Bills will not be able to win a super Bowl. After that game Sunday I am sure of it

[buffalostu2]

3 hours ago, SWATeam said:

He tried on the last drive by fumbling and then throwing that dropped pick.

 

It did seem on that last drive Josh lost some of that patience that was working so well all game.  If he just kept taking those checkdowns on that last sequence, they were still there to move the chains.

Were those aggressive throws right after he got rolled late while sliding by that DT?  He got his head crushed into the turf 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Alternatively you could say that situational awareness for Brady should have been not leaving Chris Jones 1v1 on a designed shot play. It's weird that nobody even brings this up. Brady called a very good game. But those minor details that win championships are still lacking.

Chris Jones was rushing from the outside against our Pro Bowl LT right?

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Chris Jones was rushing from the outside against our Pro Bowl LT right?

 

Yeah but it wasn't a stunt. He is lined up right over him. In a moment like that where you know you're calling a shot I think you to need to make sure the one game wrecker on their line is doubled...

 

But I will say all the hemming and hawing over that last series of plays is kind of missing the point IMO. Either we perfectly thread the needle and score a TD with no time remaining, or we score too early and the Chiefs get another chance against our abysmal defense. The game was lost well before that drive.

[DapperCam]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but it wasn't a stunt. He is lined up right over him. In a moment like that where you know you're calling a shot I think you to need to make sure the one game wrecker on their line is doubled...

 

But I will say all the hemming and hawing over that last series of plays is kind of missing the point IMO. Either we perfectly thread the needle and score a TD with no time remaining, or we score too early and the Chiefs get another chance against our abysmal defense. The game was lost well before that drive.

Maybe it is a little bit on Allen too in that situation. I know it is a lot to ask considering everything he has to do, but he really needs to know where Jones is lined up on any given play and assume he is going to win his rep.

 

If he assumes Jones will beat Dawkins, then his internal clock would be a little bit quicker there.

[BuffaloBillyG]

58 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

There are plenty of other teams in the afc that’ll be competitive .  Cincy Baltimore KC Houston Miami SD (if they make the right hire). 
 

JA’s game is physical, unless he drastically changes his style as he gets older,  realistically how many seasons is our  window of opportunity at a legit SB shot?

 

McD has seemed to reach a ceiling, how long do you stay the course? He’s had his opportunity.

Don't know why you chose my reply to respond to as what you said really has nothing to do with what I said. I will respond the same.

 

I like turtles.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If he assumes Jones will beat Dawkins, then his internal clock would be a little bit quicker there.

 

I guess, but then you have people criticizing him for rushing his internal clock on the ensuing 3rd down.

 

Overall I'm just unclear on what the plan was at the end there. Were they playing for a TD regardless of the time? Were they playing for a TD only at the very end of regulation? Were they playing conservative for a FG? Nothing about that last series shows any kind of cohesive plan.

[PayDaBill$]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Don't know why you chose my reply to respond to as what you said really has nothing to do with what I said. I will respond the same.

 

I like turtles.

Not that hard to follow, but I’ll spell it out for you anyways; KC isn’t the only team in our path, KC’s DC is the least of our problems.  

 

 

Edited January 23 by PayDaBill$

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Not that hard to follow, but I’ll spell it out for you anyways; KC isn’t the only team in our path, KC’s DC is the least of our problems.

Miss Lippy's car is green.

[PayDaBill$]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Miss Lippy's car is green.

With wit like yours it’s no wonder a simple post went that far over  your melon.

Edited January 23 by PayDaBill$

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Monty98 said:

I mean I don't think you're planning on Chris Jones coming off the edge at the end, he's been the guy in the middle pretty much his career, and you have a well paid OT in Dawkins that you have to trust to stop Jones one on one, Dawkins got bull rushed like he was a sled into Allen's lap.

Jones lines up both in and out. They move him around. The game sealing sack on Burrow in the AFCCG last year came from lining up outside. I’m sure Bills coaching staff knows this. 

[Doc Brown]

Seems to be a common theme with teams that have played Josh a lot (Belichick, Saleh, Spags).  Hate to say it but they're usually right if their team can stay close.  I still hate the Shakir shot play.  Worst call and decision of an otherwise brilliant game by Brady and Josh.

[DuckyBoys]

D line failed yet again  Doesn;t seem to matter how much resources they throw at it they flop in the playoffs   Think Beane be better off going full tilt on weapons and line depth for Josh

[NewEra]

He stayed patient until the final 2 offensive plays. Sigh 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, NewEra said:

He stayed patient until the final 2 offensive plays. Sigh 

The TD to Shakir was there. I will never fault him for that one. He hits that throw all of the time when his base is stable. 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, SWATeam said:

He tried on the last drive by fumbling and then throwing that dropped pick.

 

It did seem on that last drive Josh lost some of that patience that was working so well all game.  If he just kept taking those checkdowns on that last sequence, they were still there to move the chains.

Diggs lost the game for them 

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Josh had a massive pocket he should have stepped into on that play.  He chose to stand still like his feet were nailed to the ground.

He was waiting for Shakir to break open and he did not his fault Dawkins was pushed into him 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The TD to Shakir was there. I will never fault him for that one. He hits that throw all of the time when his base is stable. 

I stand by running the clock was our best chance to win the game.  We took 3-5 yards every play all game- then abandoned it when we needed to stick to it. TD leaves Mahomes 1:40 with timeouts. Out d couldn’t stop them all day- not sure that would’ve changed.  It most likely would’ve been the worst ending possible.  Kelce beating AJ Klein to lose the game
 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I stand by running the clock was our best chance to win the game.  We took 3-5 yards every play all game- then abandoned it when we needed to stick to it. TD leaves Mahomes 1:40 with timeouts. Out d couldn’t stop them all day- not sure that would’ve changed.  It most likely would’ve been the worst ending possible.  Kelce beating AJ Klein to lose the game
 

 

If a TD is there, you HAVE to take it. Full stop. You have no idea if there will be another chance or if a receiver is going to fumble or have a drop that leads to a tipped pass/INT or whatever. As for KC, they couldn't be stopped for most of the game -- except for the two previous possessions. Maybe a tipped ball from Mahomes results in an INT. Their receivers were bad all season. Maybe they fumble. Whatever you do, though, don't turn down the TD opportunity when it's there because it might be the last one you see.

Edited January 23 by dave mcbride

[NewEra]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

If a TD is there, you HAVE to take it. Full stop. You have no idea if there will be another chance or if a received is going to fumble or whatever. As for KC, they couldn't be stopped for most of the game -- except for the two previous possessions. Maybe a tipped ball results in an INT. Maybe they fumble. Whatever you do, though, don't turn down the TD opportunity when it's there because it might be the last one you see.

Well….. we lost.  So we can say that decision may have lost us the game. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, NewEra said:

Well….. we lost.  So we can say that decision may have lost us the game. 

No we can't. They didn't have a good play on third down (coverage; there was no plausible first down on that play) and their kicker missed an easy kick that most kickers handle no problem. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

No we can't. They didn't have a good play on third down (coverage; there was no plausible first down on that play) and their kicker missed an easy kick that most kickers handle no problem. 

MAY have lost us the game.  You can’t say it, but I certainly can.  
 

You’re operating under the assumption that if he didn’t take the shot to shakir, that it would have still been 3rd and 9.  I

 operating under the assumption that if he didn’t take that shot to shakir- he would have thrown to Diggs- who was wide open for at least 4-6 yards.  Then the 3rd down play changes.  If it didn’t change- he had Kincaid for a first.  If it did change- we were dinging them for 3-5 yards a clip all game.  
 

agree to disagree 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Don’t tell this to the people crying about throws behind LOS. 

 

Yes we do not want their eyes to get red from crying.  There are already AMBER alerts about them holding their breath until they turned yellow.

[HappyDays]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I stand by running the clock was our best chance to win the game.  We took 3-5 yards every play all game- then abandoned it when we needed to stick to it. TD leaves Mahomes 1:40 with timeouts. Out d couldn’t stop them all day- not sure that would’ve changed.  It most likely would’ve been the worst ending possible.  Kelce beating AJ Klein to lose the game
 

 

 

That's kind of an impossible needle to thread though. It's hard enough to score TDs against a great defense in the playoffs. Trying to do it with an exact amount of time left on the clock is not realistic.

 

The offense's only goal on that drive was to score a TD. If they did what they were supposed to and the defense ultimately loses the game as time run out then the axe will fall where it should.

 

If I would criticize one thing about that final series it's that we shouldn't have tried to get 9 yards on 3rd down. That's what the Chiefs are expecting. The plan should have been to pick up the easiest 6-7 yards possible and then go for it on 4th down.

 

But as I've said elsewhere the game wasn't really lost on that final drive. One team picked up 8.5 yards per play (excluding kneeldowns). The other team picked up 4.7 yards per play. That kind of yards per play discrepancy is almost impossible to overcome, and the only reason we even had a chance was because of several individual elite plays from Allen (and Shakir) and Mecole Hardman stupidly fumbling through the endzone. In every respect but the final score it was not a close game.

[Starr Almighty]

7 hours ago, beebe said:

Finally got a chance to rewatch the game. I am fairly certain this was by far the most passive defensive game plan that Spags has put together for the Chiefs vs Allen. In the 2020 AFC championship, he brought a bunch of pressure. He's done the same in many of the matchups afterward with a variety of creative and well-timed blitzes. This time, basically nothing. In 39 pass plays, the Chiefs barely ever pressured Allen and many times it was by design. D-Linemen were occasionally not even rushing and just trying to bat the ball down at the LOS. KC kept taking away the deep and intermediate routes and testing Josh's discipline to remain patient. 

 

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

 

The game plan worked but was technically a failure. The Bills had three chances to hit on a deep ball but misfired on all of them. There was the Diggs pass deep downfield isolated on a safety. There was Shakir in the end zone. There was the throw downfield to Sherfield that was nearly caught. Catches on any of those three could have swung the game in Buffalo's favor. 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

The run game stopped that style of play. In ask the previous matchups the Bills couldn't/wouldn't run

[Turbo44]

42 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I stand by running the clock was our best chance to win the game.  We took 3-5 yards every play all game- then abandoned it when we needed to stick to it. TD leaves Mahomes 1:40 with timeouts. Out d couldn’t stop them all day- not sure that would’ve changed.  It most likely would’ve been the worst ending possible.  Kelce beating AJ Klein to lose the game
 

 

You take the TD whenever you can get it. It’s cute to think he could have “automatically” got a td anytime if he would Have checked down to Diggs on 2nd down. Who knows Diggs may have dropped the pass anyway.

 

klein was taken off the Kelce coverage in the 2nd half (stupid having him cover him in the first place) Neal did a nice job in coverage on him in the 2nd half.

 

if Allen throws the td to shakir and mahomes goes down and gets a td, I could live with it. It wouldn’t be automatic as we stopped mahomes on his last 2 drives. Do you remember Mahomes being in the same exact situation in the 2022 regular season vs Buffalo and throwing the int to Tauron?

 

cute to revisit history but you take the TD when you can get it and it was 1/10 of a second from being one

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Don’t tell this to the people crying about throws behind LOS. 

 

You know the dumbest part of that complaint is...guess who leads the NFL in yards from passes at or behind the LOS the past 5 years?  Mahomes...and by a 2 to 1 marging last I saw over the next closest QB.  

Edited January 23 by Alphadawg7

[Monty98]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Jones lines up both in and out. They move him around. The game sealing sack on Burrow in the AFCCG last year came from lining up outside. I’m sure Bills coaching staff knows this. 

I get that, but that's what you're paying Dawkins to do, beat Jones one on one and not get pushed back like he's on skates. 

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, beebe said:

Finally got a chance to rewatch the game. I am fairly certain this was by far the most passive defensive game plan that Spags has put together for the Chiefs vs Allen. In the 2020 AFC championship, he brought a bunch of pressure. He's done the same in many of the matchups afterward with a variety of creative and well-timed blitzes. This time, basically nothing. In 39 pass plays, the Chiefs barely ever pressured Allen and many times it was by design. D-Linemen were occasionally not even rushing and just trying to bat the ball down at the LOS. KC kept taking away the deep and intermediate routes and testing Josh's discipline to remain patient. 

 

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

 

The game plan worked but was technically a failure. The Bills had three chances to hit on a deep ball but misfired on all of them. There was the Diggs pass deep downfield isolated on a safety. There was Shakir in the end zone. There was the throw downfield to Sherfield that was nearly caught. Catches on any of those three could have swung the game in Buffalo's favor. 

 

Obviously a loss is a loss, but Spags' apparent plan was to patiently wait for Josh to get impatient and hand them a game-altering turnover and he didn't give them one.

 

The funny thing is the “Morons in the Morning” on WGR are convinced that McDermott demanded the Bills “take the air out of the football” and control the clock by running. This, despite the fact Buffalo passed the ball over 40 times.   
 

They took was what given to them, rather than forcing deep shots like we saw under Ken Dorsey several times this season.  
 

Unfortunately the lack of talent at WR2 played directly into the game plan for Kansas City.  They took away the intermediate routes and dared Trent Sherfield to beat them on an island.   Josh did the wise thing and checked the ball down to move the sticks.  

 

Of course, the few times WR’s did get open, they couldn’t finish.  Not a surprise.  The bigger surprise was how Stefon Diggs playing like hot garbage.    
 

 

Edited January 23 by JohnNord

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's kind of an impossible needle to thread though. It's hard enough to score TDs against a great defense in the playoffs. Trying to do it with an exact amount of time left on the clock is not realistic.

 

The offense's only goal on that drive was to score a TD. If they did what they were supposed to and the defense ultimately loses the game as time run out then the axe will fall where it should.

 

If I would criticize one thing about that final series it's that we shouldn't have tried to get 9 yards on 3rd down. That's what the Chiefs are expecting. The plan should have been to pick up the easiest 6-7 yards possible and then go for it on 4th down.

 

But as I've said elsewhere the game wasn't really lost on that final drive. One team picked up 8.5 yards per play (excluding kneeldowns). The other team picked up 4.7 yards per play. That kind of yards per play discrepancy is almost impossible to overcome, and the only reason we even had a chance was because of several individual elite plays from Allen (and Shakir) and Mecole Hardman stupidly fumbling through the endzone. In every respect but the final score it was not a close game.

Maybe, maybe not  we had no problem getting 3-5 yards consistently all game.  No one knows if we would’ve been able to pull it off, but that’s what I thought our game plan was and I think we have the playmakers to make it happen in the short passing game.  What we didn’t have the entire game was ONE play over 20 yards…..  yet that’s what we tried to do with the game on the line.  And now our season is over.

 

jmo

[Nextmanup]

8 hours ago, beebe said:

Despite running just 44 plays (kneel downs not included), the Chiefs had eight 20+ yard plays.

 

In 78 plays, the Bills had zero. 

If this stat makes you sick, just wait until next year, with an inbred OC (Brady will be retained) McDimwit can push around and intimidate.

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

You take the TD whenever you can get it. It’s cute to think he could have “automatically” got a td anytime if he would Have checked down to Diggs on 2nd down. Who knows Diggs may have dropped the pass anyway.

 

klein was taken off the Kelce coverage in the 2nd half (stupid having him cover him in the first place) Neal did a nice job in coverage on him in the 2nd half.

 

if Allen throws the td to shakir and mahomes goes down and gets a td, I could live with it. It wouldn’t be automatic as we stopped mahomes on his last 2 drives. Do you remember Mahomes being in the same exact situation in the 2022 regular season vs Buffalo and throwing the int to Tauron?

 

cute to revisit history but you take the TD when you can get it and it was 1/10 of a second from being one

I get it-  lots of ifs.  
 

I can do the same things- 

 

IF Josh hirs Diggs in the crrossing route for 5-6. That leaves us with a 3rd and short.  The. IF we kid Kincaid or shakir for a 5 yards pass, KC calls a TO. Then IF Josh scrambles for 5 yards. KC calls their last TO. Then IF cook runs for 3-5 or maybe a TD.  

 

I get that some want to take TD if it’s there.  But we didn’t get it.  Then on 3rd we got nothing trying to  throw it deep yet again.  I disagree with the philosophy given the situation.  We had zero plays over 20 all game- but we risked our entire season on it on our last 2 plays of the game. 

 

Agree to disagree.  There was plenty of time left and we have Josh Allen.  I didn’t like the decision to go for it all.  

 
 

[SinceThe70s]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Maybe, maybe not  we had no problem getting 3-5 yards consistently all game.  No one knows if we would’ve been able to pull it off, but that’s what I thought our game plan was and I think we have the playmakers to make it happen in the short passing game.  What we didn’t have the entire game was ONE play over 20 yards…..  yet that’s what we tried to do with the game on the line.  And now our season is over.

 

jmo

 

I've debated this with my son since the game ended. I had no problem with the end zone shot cuz to me it was wide open but the pass just didn't get there.  But I get his/your point and in real time I was surprised that they took the shot instead of sticking with a shorter gain and killing the clock. 

 

The one thing I read here on another thread that gave me pause wrt the pass to the end zone - if the pressure from Jones caused the incompletion is it possible a pass to Diggs  would have also been incomplete? 

 

 

[SinceThe70s]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I get it-  lots of ifs.  
 

I can do the same things- 

 

IF Josh hirs Diggs in the crrossing route for 5-6. That leaves us with a 3rd and short.  The. IF we kid Kincaid or shakir for a 5 yards pass, KC calls a TO. Then IF Josh scrambles for 5 yards. KC calls their last TO. Then IF cook runs for 3-5 or maybe a TD.  

 

I get that some want to take TD if it’s there.  But we didn’t get it.  Then on 3rd we got nothing trying to  throw it deep yet again.  I disagree with the philosophy given the situation.  We had zero plays over 20 all game- but we risked our entire season on it on our last 2 plays of the game. 

 

Agree to disagree.  There was plenty of time left and we have Josh Allen.  I didn’t like the decision to go for it all.  

 
 

 

LOL - yesterday I heard a radio guy call it the N iF L.  That was a new one to me and completely accurate. BTW, always appreciate your point of view.

 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I've debated this with my son since the game ended. I had no problem with the end zone shot cuz to me it was wide open but the pass just didn't get there.  But I get his/your point and in real time I was surprised that they took the shot instead of sticking with a shorter gain and killing the clock. 

 

The one thing I read here on another thread that gave me pause wrt the pass to the end zone - if the pressure from Jones caused the incompletion is it possible a pass to Diggs  would have also been incomplete? 

 

 

If he waited that long to throw it, yes, it may have impacted that throw.  If he made up his mind to take the short gain and keep the clock moving, it probably would’ve been been complete 

 

hindsight is 20-20.  I just had in my mind that we were going to try and have the ball last or at least, limit their possession 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Can someone hire Spags as a HC, already? Get him the heck out of our playoff path. 

 

Unfortunately, Spags has already had 2 shots as a HC (3 years with the St Louis Rams, then 1/4 of the season with the Giants)  and at 64 and a defensive coordinator, even a very successful one - he doesn't fit the HC profile most teams hiring a HC are looking for.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

LOL - yesterday I heard a radio guy call it the N iF L.  That was a new one to me and completely accurate. BTW, always appreciate your point of view.

 

Thank you., I appreciate it.  It  really is the  N IF L.  Lots of hindsight
 

I just really thought our MO was to kill clock- make them burn TOs and give our D a better chance to get a stop.  

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Monty98 said:

I get that, but that's what you're paying Dawkins to do, beat Jones one on one and not get pushed back like he's on skates. 

Agreed. Especially after the trash talk during the week to pump up KC. 

[SinceThe70s]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Thank you., I appreciate it.  It  really is the  N IF L.  Lots of hindsight
 

I just really thought our MO was to kill clock- make them burn TOs and give our D a better chance to get a stop.  

 

Me too on the MO - when the pass went up I  was surprised they went end zone. Only reason I was OK with it was cuz it looked like an easy TD. 

 

I'm probably in the minority but I lost hope when they lined up for the FG - I didn't think we stood a chance of stopping KC from a winning FG with 1:45 and 2 TO's. When Bass missed I actually had more hope that we could get a stop and Josh could work some magic and get us to OT.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Me too on the MO - when the pass went up I  was surprised they went end zone. Only reason I was OK with it was cuz it looked like an easy TD. 

 

I'm probably in the minority but I lost hope when they lined up for the FG - I didn't think we stood a chance of stopping KC from a winning FG with 1:45 and 2 TO's. When Bass missed I actually had more hope that we could get a stop and Josh could work some magic and get us to OT.

Yeah, I was hoping that we would not only try and burn the clock, but also take the bulls by the horns and go for it on 4th and 1 or 2 if it got there.  Kicking a FG was playing right into their hands. If bass made it, we still probably lose