The 2nd and 9 endzone shot to Shakir

[ChrisWatson#21]

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

[BeastMaster]

This will always be debated, and both sides have an argument.

 

I am on the side that you take the touchdown if it's there.

 

He just got knocked off his spot enough to alter the throw that he missed

 

Who knows what happens if he takes Diggs underneath. We will never know

[Virgil]

Shakir was leading open when he made the decision.   Anyone is taking the 6 in that moment.  He got hit on the throw.  
 

Who’s to say the throw to Diggs also wouldn’t have been affected?

[julian]

Maybe because Diggs can’t be trusted to make a catch and Shakir was ballin, had Allen not been hit while releasing the ball it’s probably a TD.

 

 Having said that, obviously we all wish he had thrown it underneath.

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

 

Because you never make assumptions that you will have another opportunity at a later time for a TD when it's available right now. Anything could have happened.  A sack, tipped ball INT, a receiver fumbling the ball, etc...

 

Playing like you "know" you can just score at some later time isn't a luxury you get in the NFL.

[Dick_Cheney]

No guarantee Diggs would have caught it. Wouldn’t doubt it if Josh had that thought in the back of his mind. Diggs had one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen out of him. 

[Bferra13]

Not enough Kincaid in this game. Not even close. 

[Dick_Cheney]

2 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

Not enough Kincaid in this game. Not even close. 

He played hard. Incredible awareness for a rookie. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

[Man with No Name]

the 2nd and 9 play to shakir was the right call. he was open. the first down run was not the correct call. 

[Big Turk]

12 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

No guarantee Diggs would have caught it. Wouldn’t doubt it if Josh had that thought in the back of his mind. Diggs had one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen out of him. 

 

Has Diggs ever shown up past the wildcard round for the Bills?  

 

2023 - Divisional Round against KC: 3 catches on 8 targets for 21 yards.

2022 - Divisional Round against CIN: 4 catches on 10 targets for 35 yards.

2021 - Divisional Round against KC: 3 catches on 6 targets for 7 yards.

2020 - Divisional Round against BAL: 8 catches on 11 targets for 106 yards, 1 TD

2020 - AFC Champ Game against KC: 6 catches on 11 targets for 77 yards

 

Seems the last 3 seasons outside the wildcard round he has pulled a disappearing act.  I mean 10 catches on 24 targets with only 63 yards and 0 TDs?  That is pretty abysmal for a #1 WR on a team that scores the way we do.

 

Edited January 22 by Big Turk

[Process]

If you have a guy wide open for a TD you take it there is no debate 

 

Let's say Diggs takes it to the 10.

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Throw on third down, incomplete

 

FG

 

Chiefs still have over a minute left

[letsgoteam]

11 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

This will always be debated, and both sides have an argument.

 

I am on the side that you take the touchdown if it's there.

 

He just got knocked off his spot enough to alter the throw that he missed

 

Who knows what happens if he takes Diggs underneath. We will never know

Exactly. Just because Diggs catches it... Maybe Diggs fumbles and it's KC ball. Or Diggs is tackled for first down.

 

Next snap, Josh drops back or just runs it and is tackled. Sustains a career ending injury or he scores a TD. 

 

No one knows what happens afterwords. It could have been the same outcome. A missed FG from closer.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Man with No Name said:

the 2nd and 9 play to shakir was the right call. he was open. the first down run was not the correct call. 

 

At least not from that formation it wasn't.

[Roundybout]

It was the complete right throw. If Josh had half a second more to plant better that’s 6. Take it every time. 

[billieve420]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

No I am trying to get that first down and if it is close going for it on 4th down. If we were going to lose I rather ball be in Allen’s hands and taking my chances.

[Beast]

I think it’s funny that people blame Josh for trying to hit an open receiver in the endzone. You score when you can. There are things called fumbles, interceptions and other bad things that can happen during a drive (sacks, penalties….). Scoring a TD is never a guarantee and it’s amazing that people think it is.

[BananaB]

21 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

So he goes underneath and throws an inaccurate pass to Diggs because Jones pushed Dawkins into Allen. The results are the same aren’t they?  Turns into 3rd and 9. 
 

You don’t pass up a TD when it’s there when you are playing from behind. He had it, protection never held up

Edited January 22 by BananaB

[Bferra13]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

If you have a guy wide open for a TD you take it there is no debate 

 

Let's say Diggs takes it to the 10.

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Timeout

 

Run, stopped 

 

Throw on third down, incomplete

 

FG

 

Chiefs still have over a minute left

 

10 years ago I agree with this.. Not sure now. 

[Punch]

5 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

Milk the clock and score a TD is the only way I'm interpreting those that wanted the throw to Diggs.

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

 

I’ll just copy/paste this from my thread…

 

Allen had two good options on that play;

 

1) Shakir open in the endzone.

2) Diggs open on the crosser.

 

He chose Shakir, who had made several great catches during the game, over Diggs who had 2 drops during the game.

 

If Chris Jones didn’t push Dawkins into Allen’s side as he threw it, that would have been Allen’s 4th TD of the game.

 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

At least not from that formation it wasn't.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that if Cook bounced that outside he might have scored?  There was lilterally nobody outside the last guy on the line and he crashed down hard. Cook might have jogged into the endzone, or at the very least got tackled inside the 10 by the safety coming over. They had 9 guys on the LOS, there was nobody past the first wave.

Edited January 22 by Big Turk

[JoshAllin]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Going up 4 vs. 3 is an entirely different  scenario. If 
 

I have no problem with taking a shot to a WIDE OPEN receiver in the end zone in this situation. Especially on 2nd down. 
 

people arguing the check down to Diggs are really arguing they want to milk the clock and settle for overtime. That’s the mentality. Milk the clock, play conservative and kick a 28 yard Fg after going ultra conservative in the red zone after picking up the first down to Diggs. 
 

so play for overtime. A loser mentality. 

They were milking the clock all game. The mentality there is to waste there timeouts while also scoring a td

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Am I the only one who thinks that if Cook bounced that outside he might have scored?  There was lilterally nobody outside the last guy on the line and he crashed down hard. Cook might have jogged into the endzone, or at the very least got tackled inside the 10 by the safety coming over. They had 9 guys on the LOS, there was nobody past the first wave.

 

I'd have to see it again to notice the edge; I was too focused on what was going on inside the box. 🤷‍♂️

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Punch said:

Milk the clock and score a TD is the only way I'm interpreting those that wanted the throw to Diggs.

Play conservative and then go all out for a TD?

 

not likely. 

[Billever76]

11 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

the 2nd and 9 play to shakir was the right call. he was open. the first down run was not the correct call. 

We sure could have used a 75% to 25% pass to run play selection in the 2nd half..kc cane out of the half with an obvious emphasis to stop the run and there was tons of intermediate opportunities for the taking and we never challenged those chances

Edited January 22 by Billever76

[Punch]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Play conservative and then go all out for a TD?

 

not likely. 

It's what they tried all game. No one wants a FG there.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, motorj said:

They were milking the clock all game. The mentality there is to waste there timeouts while also scoring a td

just get the TD. 
 

being up 4 is vastly different than up 3. 

as many others have said so many other things could happen between picking up the first down and trying to milk the clock and score .

 

if the TD only puts up 3 I get the thought process of milking the clock and being conservative late in the game . But if you can get a 4 point lead with less than 2 to go you take it. 

[iccrewman112]

20 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

Not enough Kincaid in this game. Not even close. 

the offense should run through him next year. He needs to be used just as Kelce. Including the 150 targets.

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh made the right decision Shakir was breaking open and if he didn’t get hit a bit they would have been up 31-27. Now would they have blown that lead that is quite possible with the way the D was playing but you take a touchdown in that situation any chance you can then pray your defense can make like a couple plays. 

[DapperCam]

16 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

the 2nd and 9 play to shakir was the right call. he was open. the first down run was not the correct call. 

I kind of think the whole strategy of trying to run the entire clock down and score with no time remaining was a mistake.

 

Just try to score a TD, and if you give KC 4 minutes left then at least you might get the ball back again. Doing silly stuff like running Cook for no gain really hurt us there.

Edited January 22 by DapperCam

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, Punch said:

It's what they tried all game. No one wants a FG there.

Correct no FG’s which is why the ball was thrown to a wide open receiver in the end zone. 

[transplantbillsfan]

It was the right decision but he got hit. OL needs to be better 

[Virgil]

34 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I love Josh to death but why would he pass up a wide open Stef underneath, a possible first down to drain more clock to instead try and score a TD leaving 1:50 on the clock against a player that beat the Bills with only 13 seconds left?  The goal was very simple here.   It’s to score a TD with almost no time left especially when only a field goal is all the Bills need to extend the game so it wasn’t like the Bills needed a TD on that down.  I know he doesn’t have a coach that will hold him accountable like Dabol would but we are on year six here where he should already know the situation.  I love Josh we owe all these playoff years to him but I’m so dissapointed that he wouldn’t be able to dissect that situation for what it was.  I can’t put that one on Sean as much as I have wanted him gone for a few years😭😭

Why would you choose one of the worst players in Bills history as your screen name?

 

Dude is second to Kelsay for me.  He’s easily a top 5 worst player for me

[Punch]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Correct no FG’s which is why the ball was thrown to a wide open receiver in the end zone. 

No one's arguing Allen should've thrown it to Diggs in order to setup a FG, get over yourself. Everyone making that case wanted to leave no time on the clock after a TD.

[Thrivefourfive]

I’ll never change my mind that this wasn’t a bad decision. I disagree with the OP. As soon as it landed short of Shakir and I saw the replay that showed Allen was flat footed and Shakir had enough space for even a slightly softer throw (a regular human throw). I bet Josh’s thoughts are that it was the right decision (Diggs sucks) and he didn’t choose the correct throw. 
 

A plant and fire was an easy looking, spectacular throw from JA17.

 

Everyone saying the play should’ve gone to Diggs is assuming the Bills had more scoring plays in their cache, when in fact they hadn’t any all night.
 

Eat up more clock… don’t give Mahomes time to counter.

 

Nah man. You score 6 when you can. The way these receivers have been failing you all game, you had your favorite wr in the endzone - go for that. 
 

If Mahomes gets the ball back and goes down to score a touchdown to win, so be it. McDermott’s vindication attempt would have been squashed and he’d be canned for the very understandable and justifiable reason of continuous blowing @$$ on defense on another win-all drive. 

[Man with No Name]

always score as efficiently as possible. especially when you are losing. people are nuts thinking we can just manipulate the clock and score whenever, however we want. 

 

TAKE THE 7 EVERY TIME it is handed to you

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Am I the only one who thinks that if Cook bounced that outside he might have scored?  There was lilterally nobody outside the last guy on the line and he crashed down hard. Cook might have jogged into the endzone, or at the very least got tackled inside the 10 by the safety coming over. They had 9 guys on the LOS, there was nobody past the first wave.

 

I don’t think he had a chance to make it outside. There was a defender right behind him. It was just a terrible play call and Torrence got stood straight up.

 

 

 

[billieve420]

Didn’t love the first down call to begin with. However, 2nd and 9 I am trying to scheme someone open underneath to make it 3rd and manageable. Then from there give option for Allen to run if play presents itself and if nothing is open to get as close as possible to that first down. If it was 4th and less than 3 then I am going for it no questions asked. Put the ball in your best player’s hand and go for the Win.

[JoshAllin]

1 minute ago, Man with No Name said:

always score as efficiently as possible. especially when you are losing. people are nuts thinking we can just manipulate the clock and score whenever, however we want. 

 

TAKE THE 7 EVERY TIME it is handed to you

Josh is elite enough to do that, he did it with 13 seconds and that seemed like the game plan for the game with the busted up defense going in