Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

I don't need to be a comedian or movie maker to tell you "Freddy Got Fingered" ( IMO the worst movie of all time) is a horrible movie. The sniff test.

 

Dunne's piece does not pass the sniff test. 

 

Well youre wrong about one of the greatest cinematic masterpieces of all time, so I guess youre probably wrong about Dunne's article!

 

 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, wettlaufer said:

So, peer-reviewed clinician objects to peer review. Got it.

 

Not at all; peer-reviewed scientist (not clinician) objects to being doxxed on a football fan site, where scientific credentials (not to mention my home address) are not at all relevant to assessing my POV on football fan topics.

 

7 minutes ago, wettlaufer said:

This is a very reasoned response and I appreciate it.

 

Dunne had to get this out because his time, like that of any of us, is worth money. This thing was an investment of time and reputation and I don't think it was frivolous or shoddy.

 

Thank you for your kind words.

We agree that this piece was a substantial investment of time, and that time is money to Dunne as to the rest of us.  This is how Dunne makes his living and feeds himself and his family.   And, whether coincidence or not, the timing of the release likely maximized interest - and thus, potentially, money through subscribers.

 

I don't think it was frivolous or shoddy, but it does seem pretty clear that Dunne is not simply serving as a conduit for others anecdotes and opinions, but either 1) shaping what he gathered to support his own POV or 2) inserting his own POV that was shaped by the opinions and anecdotes he gathered.  I can't tell which.  Probably to some extent, both.  And I don't think we can rule out shaping a POV to maximize controversy - and thus, potentially, money through subscribers.

 

As you say, it was an investment of time, and time is money.

 

Dunne had to collect his own sources and persuade them to talk to him.  One way to do that is talk to a handful of guys, and they each suggest you talk to a couple guys, and so forth.  It wouldn't take long to build up a large number of sources that way, but it would be pretty easy to slide into a collection of sources that pretty much serve as an echo chamber, reinforcing the same POV.  And, if current players and coaches don't generally want to talk to him, especially during the season, many of his sources will be former coaches and players. 

 

It leads to, as John Wawrow said, "People have issues with their former boss: story at 11".

[Mister Defense]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:55 AM, hondo in seattle said:

Let me be the naysayer who gets smacked around for a divergent view...

 

I like Dunne.  And he says he talked to 25 people for this article.  That's an impressive number.  

 

But I wonder who he talked to and which ones he quoted?  Coaches who were fired?  Players who were cut?  

 

It would be nice if he sought out a random sample.  Both McD detractors and fans.  But he seemingly didn't do that.  

 

I'm not arguing McD is perfect and doesn't do any wrong.  I just don't think Dunne's article is the final word.  We've heard a lot of players talk about how much they love the culture of the Bills.  Things aren't all bad.  

 

 

Yup

 

Search the web to find all of the stories of how horrible it is to play for Belicheck, as if the poor players were almost prisoners of war...

 

And all the Pats and Belicheck did was win 6 Super Bowls, earn the respect of the vast majority of players who played (and coached) for him, and become the best head coach to ever coach in the NFL.

 

Dunne cherry picked his info from the fired, dismissed and otherwise disenfranchised former Bills--you can do this to almost ANY highly successful person, across fields, because that is the price of success and of wanting things done well.

 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

Dunne cherry picked his info from the fired, dismissed and otherwise disenfranchised former Bills--you can do this to almost ANY highly successful person, across fields, because that is the price of success and of wanting things done well.

 

To be fair, I don't know that Dunne cherry-picked fired or dismissed former Bills.  But, he has to go out and independently persuade people to talk to him. 

And, typically, people who are "salty" are more interested in having someone give them a voice, right?

 

Then there's the fact that who knows how many people Dunne talked to overall - people who were "I had fun playing for Buffalo, nothing really bad to say about it" aren't much of a story.

 

 

[JohnNord]

34 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I just want to comment on a few things here.  Mostly I agree with your writeup.

 

1. Please everyone... I don't want you to think I am trying to get you to pay for the article. I just wish that people wouldn't go ape ***** and make all kinds of comments when they haven't read but a little snippet of it.  That simply isn't fair and a lot of misinformation.  Making a comment on a snippet that was read is fair.  Passing it off to the whole article is not.

 

2. " One coach disputed that McDermott ever slept at the facility and said there were times when he left earlier than some coaches.  These just seem like pot shots to me 🤷‍♂️"    This was not a pot shot or sour grapes. This was Dunne backing up his opinion that McD was fake. Remember, this part really started with McD telling the media that he often sleeps at work.  If it is indeed true that he doesn't, and I am not making a claim whether he does or not, then that would be fake or phony.

 

Thats about all really.  I don't disagree really with anything you say here.  I felt it was worth the 8 bucks because I enjoyed the read.  I like knowing things I don't know.  Have to know where to separate Dunne's opinion from the truths of the article and come to a conclusion for yourself.  You seem to be able to do that.  Ya know, everyone is going to have their own opinion.  I just want people to actually read before making it because that's the fair thing to do, but I am not trying to suggest anyone pay for it.

I have to respectfully disagree a bit here with your take.  Yes, the idea to include that was to show that he doesn’t practice what he preached. 

But the gist of the article was that McDermott was serious about NFL 24/7 to the point that it became a detriment.  So it’s not like we’re talking about a Rex Ryan work ethic.  The guy works hard.  So for the source to say he never knew of McDermott actually slept in the office or that he wasn’t always the last one out seems a little petty to me.   If you’re the boss and you try to set the example of being “the first one in and the last one out,” obviously there are going to some days when this isn’t the case.  
 

To me, this kind of pettiness is what happens when you don’t like your boss or supervisor.   You look for things that they do wrong and then privately take shots at them.

 

This is where the sour grapes and bitterness in and why people are calling into question Dunne’s bias and where the “character attack” come into play.  
 

I haven’t read Part 2 or Part 3 but my guess is that the overall message is - “Is Sean McDermott the right coach to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl.”

 

That’s a fair and topical question, which I feel could have been achieved without these kind of stories from bitter ex employees.  
 

But that’s just me.  It’s okay for others to have a different take.  

[wettlaufer]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

It leads to, as John Wawrow said, "People have issues with their former boss: story at 11".

I think it leads to, why can the Bills close out games. Bottom line.

[Mister Defense]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, I don't know that Dunne cherry-picked fired or dismissed former Bills.  But, he has to go out and independently persuade people to talk to him. 

And, typically, people who are "salty" are more interested in having someone give them a voice, right?

 

Then there's the fact that who knows how many people Dunne talked to overall - people who were "I had fun playing for Buffalo, nothing really bad to say about it" aren't much of a story.

 

 

 

Yes, and especially true of someone like Dunne, whose income depends on it, on getting people excited and interested in his work so they pay him directly.

 

Who are some of the movie directors considered most difficult to work with?

 

Jamee Cameron

 

Alfred Hitchcock

 

Francis Ford Coppola

 

Stanley Kubrick

 

...

 

Men who did it their way, because they were ahead of their time and knew what they wanted.  Without that, those names would be meaningless to us.

 

I believe that like coaches like Reid and Vermeil, and Belicheck that McD will soon rise to the top.

 

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I haven’t read Part 2 or Part 3 but my guess is that the overall message is - “Is Sean McDermott the right coach to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl.”

 

That’s a fair and topical question, which I feel could have been achieved without these kind of stories from bitter ex employees.  
 

But that’s just me.  It’s okay for others to have a different take.  

 

Bingo.  We concur.

 

I'll even go further: the piece might have been more effective at elevating that question for discussion, without all the ancillary stories that, given the wording and slant, seem to reach the point of character attack.

 

The real question the Bills have to address, is whether McDermott's in-game decision making can improve, and whether he can develop himself as a team coach, not one who focuses on defense to the detriment of offense sometimes.

 

I just posted a link from a Jim Kelly interview over in the KC game week thread.  I thought it was interesting that Kelly specifically mentioned in-game decisions as needing to be better.

 

9 minutes ago, wettlaufer said:

I think it leads to, why can the Bills close out games. Bottom line.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but in mine, I think the degree to which it was slanted and seemed personal distracted from that very germaine and topical and important question.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Beck Water

[JohnNord]

34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I don't think it was frivolous or shoddy, but it does seem pretty clear that Dunne is not simply serving as a conduit for others anecdotes and opinions, but either 1) shaping what he gathered to support his own POV or 2) inserting his own POV that was shaped by the opinions and anecdotes he gathered.  I can't tell which.  Probably to some extent, both.  And I don't think we can rule out shaping a POV to maximize controversy - and thus, potentially, money through subscribers

This is basically what I tried to say, but just written a lot better!

[billsfan714]

A coach that coaches scared for a fanbase scared to get rid of him.   A perfect match.

[Kincaid Kool-Aid]

3 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

A coach that coaches scared for a fanbase scared to get rid of him.   A perfect match.

Well said!

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dunne?  Ty Dunne?  Is that you? 😄  Just kidding.

 

I write reports.  I write for publication.  Last paper I wrote had 32 referenced sources and was so dry and technical you could place it in the desert and have it blend right in.

 

Journalism isn't my thing.  However, I feel I have some idea how journalists operate because I chat with them on occasion. 

Here's the thing: Ty Dunne is technically an independent contractor now.  He isn't writing for AP or for TBN which have standards for sourcing and verification in what they publish (Source: discussion with TBN sports editor Josh Barnett and AP reporter John Wawrow).  Upthread, I quoted an article by reporter and former Dunne mentor Chuck Pollock who points out that if Dunne were writing for a newspaper, there is no way he could have published a piece like that based on so many anonymous sources.  

So, writing independently gives Dunne great power he wouldn't have if he were writing for a publication.  "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" as Spiderman's Uncle Ben said repeatedly.

 

What Dunne wrote is, in journalistic terms, an opinion piece or opinion column.  He has sources, but he's not simply a conduit; he's not limiting himself to the "testimony of others".  He's mixing in his own slant and interpretation and using the sources to illustrate and support it.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, just a style of journalistic writing.  Several people upthread have gone point by point through fair-use excerpts and shown this pretty conclusively.  But, that you don't recognize this and refer to Dunne as "a conduit" and say "the testimony belongs to others", casts some doubt about your own understanding. 

 

I wouldn't argue that it was 'released to inflict damage'.  I don't know or pretend to know Dunne's motivations.  Dunne himself said in public interviews that he rushed completing the article after the Eagles game because he felt that close OT loss illustrated many of his points.   I think releasing it at a nexus point in the season, has the potential to maximize the interest it generates, and thus the traffic to Dunne's site/subscribers.  It's pretty clearly in Dunne's financial interest to release it now, but I don't know for sure whether financial interest motivated him, either.  Releasing it now also has a high potential to cause damage to the Bills season, but I can't tell you if that was a motivation or collateral damage.

 

 

 

You can't learn everything by google.  You seem like a swiss army knife guy.  Usually that means tries to be good at everything but is only mediocre at each thing.  In this case I think tries to know everything but only knows little bits about everything.  I am not trying to be funny or say anything about you here.  I'm just saying that in just about every topic imaginable you whip out a long post trying to sound expert at it. A lot of it is something someone would have to google because it wouldn't make sense for one person to seemingly know about all these various things. I actually like that you do that because then I don't have to google. What I don't like is you act like you are an expert at things and know better than everyone else.  I dunno, you just seem a little uppity/snobbish sometimes. Googling things makes you no expert.  A lot of times google information can be wrong if you don't know what you are doing too.

 

In any case.  You have no idea of Dunne's motives only your own "slant" or opinion on him.  Where did he say it was "rushed" by the way? I'd like to read it.  What I read is... "A quick note on “timing.” We discussed Thursday night on the Happy Hour, too, but in a nutshell: The series was posted this week because the series was completed this week. It was not finished after the Cincinnati loss or the Denver loss. And, as written, the loss at Philadelphia appeared to encapsulate this era of football under Sean McDermott. At 6-6, the Bills are now at a crucial crossroads." 

 

It actually does encapsulate the Sean McDermott era because the premise is that Sean pisses his pants in big moments.  He does.  Thats why his record is so bad in big moments.  Thats why mistakes keep happening in big moments. Thats why timeouts keep happening in big moments.  Thats why he tries to control everything instead of trusting his people in big moments.  Thats why 13 seconds happened. Thats why he kneels the ball down with 20 seconds to go against the best team in the league with Josh Allen playing the best ball of his career... because the dude craps his pants in big moments.  So yeah, it was the perfect time to release the article in this sense.

 

Sure, maybe he made sure he got it out this week.  He has been working on it a long time though.  Comments like "trying to inflict damage" Just lol.  He is building a career.  Thats it.  He spent a long time writing an article and released it.  It's his job.  Thats what he does.  Really nothing more needs to be said or said at all.  Anybody saying anything is just looking for one thing... to completely discredit the work in any way possible.

 

Yup, he wrote a story.  He has an opinion and uses facts, player, and staff comments to support that opinion.  Thats the type of writer he is.  It's a legitimate style of sports writing or any writing.  So, what's bad about that?  Anyone intelligent can separate his opinion from the sourced comments and make their own opinion.  People give their opinion all day long here and treat it as fact. What many neglect and don't want to admit in this thread is that even after removing Dunne's opinion, the comments from players and staff are still there and they are real.  Even yourself. Snippets, like google, is not enough.  All the snippets in this thread is not even one page of a 3 page article. It's probably enough for those with dare I say an axe to grind with the reporter.

 

Yeah maybe with that many sources a big newspaper wouldn't publish that article.  They can and do publish articles with anonymous sources all the time.  All they ask is that they are verified. This is just another case of you trying to discredit the article.  I don't give two craps if the sources remain anonymous.  Thats typical.  As long as I believe the comments are real and I do.  There is nothing anywhere indicating that Dunne is a liar.  There isn't really any media anywhere that discredits him. Everything I have seen shows that Dunne is a respected reporter.  I don't think he is going to tank his career for 800, 8000, or even 80000 bucks like you alluded to before either.  Nobody tanking their career for no Christmas vacation.

 

People that love McDermott and are afraid to see him go will rip Dunne and his article apart. Even if they haven't read it.  People that hate McD and want to see him go will use it as justification.  I think both are bogus.  They both miss what an article like this is.  It's real information from real players and staff that people normally don't get to see.  If ya ever wanted to be a fly on the wall... this is the type of piece that will give you that.  Not the generic PC's with no real information.  Not Sal C or Chris Brown who toe the company line.  If you want real information this is the type of report you want to read.  Instead we got people trying to trash the writer because oh no he hurt my precious McD or people that hate McD using it as fuel.  

 

I have my own opinions and conclusions.  I wanted McD gone before the article.  There are many reasons for it.  There were also reasons that I wanted to keep him this long and it took me to this season to get there.  The article has nothing to do with it.  It does make some things line up and make sense.  Those things were from player/staff comments in the article and not from the writers opinion though.  Next I would like to be a fly on the wall for the rift between Daboll and McD.

[RichRiderBills]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You can't learn everything by google.  You seem like a swiss army knife guy.  Usually that means tries to be good at everything but is only mediocre at each thing.  In this case I think tries to know everything but only knows little bits about everything.  I am not trying to be funny or say anything about you here.  I'm just saying that in just about every topic imaginable you whip out a long post trying to sound expert at it. A lot of it is something someone would have to google because it wouldn't make sense for one person to seemingly know about all these various things. I actually like that you do that because then I don't have to google. What I don't like is you act like you are an expert at things and know better than everyone else.  I dunno, you just seem a little uppity/snobbish sometimes. Googling things makes you no expert.  A lot of times google information can be wrong if you don't know what you are doing too.

 

In any case.  You have no idea of Dunne's motives only your own "slant" or opinion on him.  Where did he say it was "rushed" by the way? I'd like to read it.  What I read is... "A quick note on “timing.” We discussed Thursday night on the Happy Hour, too, but in a nutshell: The series was posted this week because the series was completed this week. It was not finished after the Cincinnati loss or the Denver loss. And, as written, the loss at Philadelphia appeared to encapsulate this era of football under Sean McDermott. At 6-6, the Bills are now at a crucial crossroads." 

 

It actually does encapsulate the Sean McDermott era because the premise is that Sean pisses his pants in big moments.  He does.  Thats why his record is so bad in big moments.  Thats why mistakes keep happening in big moments. Thats why timeouts keep happening in big moments.  Thats why he tries to control everything instead of trusting his people in big moments.  Thats why 13 seconds happened. Thats why he kneels the ball down with 20 seconds to go against the best team in the league with Josh Allen playing the best ball of his career... because the dude craps his pants in big moments.  So yeah, it was the perfect time to release the article in this sense.

 

Sure, maybe he made sure he got it out this week.  He has been working on it a long time though.  Comments like "trying to inflict damage" Just lol.  He is building a career.  Thats it.  He spent a long time writing an article and released it.  It's his job.  Thats what he does.  Really nothing more needs to be said or said at all.  Anybody saying anything is just looking for one thing... to completely discredit the work in any way possible.

 

Yup, he wrote a story.  He has an opinion and uses facts, player, and staff comments to support that opinion.  Thats the type of writer he is.  It's a legitimate style of sports writing or any writing.  So, what's bad about that?  Anyone intelligent can separate his opinion from the sourced comments and make their own opinion.  People give their opinion all day long here and treat it as fact. What many neglect and don't want to admit in this thread is that even after removing Dunne's opinion, the comments from players and staff are still there and they are real.  Even yourself. Snippets, like google, is not enough.  All the snippets in this thread is not even one page of a 3 page article. It's probably enough for those with dare I say an axe to grind with the reporter.

 

Yeah maybe with that many sources a big newspaper wouldn't publish that article.  They can and do publish articles with anonymous sources all the time.  All they ask is that they are verified. This is just another case of you trying to discredit the article.  I don't give two craps if the sources remain anonymous.  Thats typical.  As long as I believe the comments are real and I do.  There is nothing anywhere indicating that Dunne is a liar.  There isn't really any media anywhere that discredits him. Everything I have seen shows that Dunne is a respected reporter.  I don't think he is going to tank his career for 800, 8000, or even 80000 bucks like you alluded to before either.  Nobody tanking their career for no Christmas vacation.

 

People that love McDermott and are afraid to see him go will rip Dunne and his article apart. Even if they haven't read it.  People that hate McD and want to see him go will use it as justification.  I think both are bogus.  They both miss what an article like this is.  It's real information from real players and staff that people normally don't get to see.  If ya ever wanted to be a fly on the wall... this is the type of piece that will give you that.  Not the generic PC's with no real information.  Not Sal C or Chris Brown who toe the company line.  If you want real information this is the type of report you want to read.  Instead we got people trying to trash the writer because oh no he hurt my precious McD or people that hate McD using it as fuel.  

 

I have my own opinions and conclusions.  I wanted McD gone before the article.  There are many reasons for it.  There were also reasons that I wanted to keep him this long and it took me to this season to get there.  The article has nothing to do with it.  It does make some things line up and make sense.  Those things were from player/staff comments in the article and not from the writers opinion though.  Next I would like to be a fly on the wall for the rift between Daboll and McD.

 

One of the most incoherent, rambling posts I've ever read on these illustrious boards...good show man!

 

 

[jlgarsh]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:28 AM, PBF81 said:

 

Distinguished though?

 

The only reason that Shula's here is bc he took was on Carolina.  

 

To early to tell with Brady.  Need more games, a bigger body of work to evaluate.  

 

So far so good, but hardly distinguished at this point.  

 

 

Kromer is a distinguished coach. He's a top 3 OL coach in the NFL

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I have to respectfully disagree a bit here with your take.  Yes, the idea to include that was to show that he doesn’t practice what he preached. 

But the gist of the article was that McDermott was serious about NFL 24/7 to the point that it became a detriment.  So it’s not like we’re talking about a Rex Ryan work ethic.  The guy works hard.  So for the source to say he never knew of McDermott actually slept in the office or that he wasn’t always the last one out seems a little petty to me.   If you’re the boss and you try to set the example of being “the first one in and the last one out,” obviously there are going to some days when this isn’t the case.  
 

To me, this kind of pettiness is what happens when you don’t like your boss or supervisor.   You look for things that they do wrong and then privately take shots at them.

 

This is where the sour grapes and bitterness in and why people are calling into question Dunne’s bias and where the “character attack” come into play.  
 

I haven’t read Part 2 or Part 3 but my guess is that the overall message is - “Is Sean McDermott the right coach to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl.”

 

That’s a fair and topical question, which I feel could have been achieved without these kind of stories from bitter ex employees.  
 

But that’s just me.  It’s okay for others to have a different take.  

 

Sorry I don't agree.  I do agree with the part that maybe there are just some disgruntled workers but the over all message on that comment was to back up his claim that McD is fake.  He said that McD was fake.  He showed how McD said to the press that he sleeps at work and then he shows a source saying McD don't sleep at work.  That is what happened sour grapes or not.  Do you actually know that McD sleeps at work first hand?  If he doesn't then McD is in fact fake.

 

Yes the overall message of the article is “Is Sean McDermott the right coach to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl.”

 

Not this type of article can't, no.  The article is much more interesting with real comments from people and not just some feels from opinion.  Even bitter ex employees can tell the truth.  Just because they are bitter doesn't mean they are making ***** up.

 

 

5 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

One of the most incoherent, rambling posts I've ever read on these illustrious boards...good show man!

 

 

 

Good for you.  I didn't ask.

[Warcodered]

17 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

You can't learn everything by google.  You seem like a swiss army knife guy.  Usually that means tries to be good at everything but is only mediocre at each thing.  In this case I think tries to know everything but only knows little bits about everything.  I am not trying to be funny or say anything about you here.  I'm just saying that in just about every topic imaginable you whip out a long post trying to sound expert at it. A lot of it is something someone would have to google because it wouldn't make sense for one person to seemingly know about all these various things. I actually like that you do that because then I don't have to google. What I don't like is you act like you are an expert at things and know better than everyone else.  I dunno, you just seem a little uppity/snobbish sometimes. Googling things makes you no expert.  A lot of times google information can be wrong if you don't know what you are doing too.

Feels like you can just look at the bolded look at the rest and promptly ignore everything else you say.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Warcodered

[Scott7975]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Feel like you can just look at the bolded look at the rest and promptly ignore everything else you say.

 

So then do that, I don't care.

[Rico]

23 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

You can't learn everything by google.  You seem like a swiss army knife guy. 
(blah blah blah)

She’s not a guy, dunce.

[JohnNord]

28 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

He showed how McD said to the press that he sleeps at work and then he shows a source saying McD don't sleep at work.  That is what happened sour grapes or not.  Do you actually know that McD sleeps at work first hand?  If he doesn't then McD is in fact fake.

Here’s where I differ.  That anonymous coach or player that was interviewed likely does not have access to building logs.  He was not aware that McDermott slept at work, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.   So it’s basically conjecture - yet this is what Dunne chose to put in the article and what you are regarding as a “fact.”  
 

Besides, even if he never technically slept at work, does it matter?  He clearly worked a lot of long hours in Buffalo and throughout his other stops.  We could get into so many areas - maybe he was referring to office sleeping in Buffalo, but to his Carolina or Philadelphia days.  

 

Either way we’re getting into semantics here.  The response in the video was about setting an example to his children of hard work more than it was about sleeping in the office.  

This is where it does matter that he used disgruntled coaches with an ax to grind.  It’s like the example I used.  A boss preaches that supervisors need to be “the first to arrive and the last to leave.”  On the day he has to leave early for whatever reason it would be like one of the managers shouting “you said you’re the last one to leave, but you left before us today.  You’re a liar.”  Sooooo incredibly stupid.  

 

And it’s that kind of mentality that has rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way and major reason why Dunne is facing so much blowback from fans and why so many are unwilling to pay a nominal fee of $8 to read his work.

Edited December 10, 2023 by JohnNord

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Rico said:

She’s not a guy, dunce.

 

Ok and I am supposed to know that how Richard?

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Here’s where I differ.  That anonymous coach or player that was interviewed likely does not have access to building logs.  He was not aware that McDermott slept at work, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.   So it’s basically conjecture - yet this is what Dunne chose to put in the article and what you are regarding as a “fact.”  
 

Besides, even if he never technically slept at work, does it matter?  He clearly worked a lot of long hours in Buffalo and throughout his other stops.

 

Either way we’re splitting hairs here.  The response in the video was about setting an example to his children of hard work more than it was about sleeping in the office.  

This is where it does matter that he used disgruntled coaches with an ax to grind.  It’s like the example I used.  A boss says he’s “the arrive and the last to leave.  On the day he has to leave early for whatever reason it would be like shouting “you said you’re the last one to leave, but you left before us today.  You’re fake.”  Sooooo incredibly stupid.  

 

And it’s that kind of mentality that has rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way - and a big reason why Dunne is facing so much blowback from fans why the majority of fans in his biggest area of opportunity won’t pay the nominal $8 fee to read.  Case and point… this forum.

 

Yeah, it's fine I will just agree to disagree.  If someone is in the office and McD leaves before them then he didn't sleep there.  Could be made up, I guess.

 

Yes, it does matter to me if he says he sleeps at work to try and look a certain way to everyone but doesn't actually sleep at work.  Its fake and phony to me.  I'd prefer genuine.  If he works hard then he works hard.  Just say that. Say I stay up home till 2am watching film and get up at 4am to go back to work, I don't care.  Just don't make up something if it doesn't happen.

 

To be clear, I have no doubts that McD works hard. He for sure does.  Unlike clown Rex Ryan.  I also have no doubts that he is a good dude and really is doing his best to win.  I just don't need anything phony about that.  I hate fake people with a passion.

 

He used sources he has access too.  It's that simple.  Josh Allen wasn't calling him up on the phone to talk about the behind the scenes.  I don't care if people are disgruntled. They can still speak truths.  They can still speak on their perspectives. There were also sources not speaking disgruntled or poorly of McD to semi balance that. Dunne himself did not entirely speak poorly of McD.  But again, I take all this with a grain of salt and treat it for what it is and make my own opinion.  This thread is nothing more than people bringing out pitch forks because they are afraid of McD getting fired.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, wettlaufer said:

 

Do you have any idea how rare this kind of article is? Or what constitutes good journalism?

 

And you just admitted you read enough (from screenshots, DMs, failed firewall blockers) of a 20,000 word piece (that's a GD senior thesis) to reiterate your going-in biases?

 

You're a scholar. A scholar and a GD gentleman.

 

I don't understand the need for an ad hominem attack.   You don't know me, my character, what I've done...

 

In any case, I've admitted in this thread that (1) I likewise don't know Dunne personally or his character, (2) I don't believe Dunne presented anything as factual that wasn't factual, (3) I do believe Dunne believed every word that he wrote, and (4) I don't actually know what McD is like on the practice field, in the locker room or the training facility.

 

But here's what bugs me: Dunne's judged the man.   For example, he writes, "Coaches see a boss who preaches accountability while taking none himself."  It's one thing to criticize a coach's tactical decisions, another thing altogether to attack the person.  And Dunne doesn't have the right to speak for the coaches -  I am certain that there are Bills coaches who would disagree with Dunne's characterization.  

 

I'm not sure if McD is a good enough coach to get us a Lombardi.  Maybe he is "tight" and has some of the other shortcomings Dunne described.  But when Dunne stoops to character assassination, which I've seen in quotes from the article, I'm not a fan.  Neither is Micah Hyde.  And, btw, Sherfield says Hyde was speaking for the team when he rebutted Dunne.  

 

But I'm not sticking up for McD as much as I'm sticking up for human respect and kindness.  I don't believe in attacking people.  It's a crappy thing to do.  And I don't need to read 20,000 words to know that.  If a criminal robs 20,000 people, I don't need to witness every theft to know I'm not a fan.  

[Ray Stonada]

43 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

It actually does encapsulate the Sean McDermott era because the premise is that Sean pisses his pants in big moments.  He does.  Thats why his record is so bad in big moments.  Thats why mistakes keep happening in big moments. Thats why timeouts keep happening in big moments.  Thats why he tries to control everything instead of trusting his people in big moments.  Thats why 13 seconds happened. Thats why he kneels the ball down with 20 seconds to go against the best team in the league with Josh Allen playing the best ball of his career... because the dude craps his pants in big moments.  So yeah, it was the perfect time to release the article in this sense.

This.

[Scott7975]

I'll leave you all today with another snippet. This time from part III.  It might even be part of the free stuff, IDK?  But some people might not have found it even if it is.  I'm not actually leaving yet but soon.  You can all sing tears of joy 😃

 

There are two distinct versions of Josh Allen this 2023 season. One is fun. One takes off on the run — “The crowd loves it!” Al Michaels professes — and holds the football over the goal line while staring down a Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback. All at full speed.

This version gets a Cincinnati Bengals safety to leave his feet with a pump fake, points, laughs and runs in for a TD. Flag ‘n fine, be damned. Meanwhile, Sean McDermott, spits on the turf and purses his lips. Fifteen yards lost on a kickoff likely means more to the Buffalo Bills head coach than any momentum gained by his backyard quarterback rediscovering himself.

This version, at rain-slopped Philadelphia, rams through Reed Blankenship at the goal line, chucks the ball against the backstop and — flanked by teammates — swaggers right into the teeth of those trash-talking Eagles fans as if welcoming a dark-alley fight. The TD launched a tour de force for the quarterback: 420 total yards, four touchdowns. 

“No. 17 is just a different bird,” said one friend and former pro teammate. “He’s wired different. He’s not like most of these quarterbacks. He wants to make dick jokes and run into people.”

If Buffalonians could create the quarterback they’ve always desired in a lab, it’s exactly this.

But then, there’s the other Allen. The pale, stupefied, knockoff version who trudges to the sideline after an interception vs. Denver with McDermott screaming in his ear.

Unlike his boss, Allen does not come remotely close to assigning blame. Doesn’t embarrass receivers on national TV. Doesn’t snipe into earholes on the sidelines. Doesn’t kindly remind the public what McDermott said back in March when, in truth, it’s fully within his rights to alert your attention to these trainwreck comments. When, in reality, this is everything a former Bills assistant coach meant when he said this team is forced to “overcome the head coach.” Everything a former teammate meant by McDermott serving as a drop of “poison.”

A smart coach does everything in his power to accentuate the first version of Allen.

Realize you’ve been gifted a Marvel character at the most important position in sports and let him fly.

Then, there’s McDermott sitting down with NFL Network last March. He made it abundantly clear that Allen needed to siphon these sorts of plays out of his game. 

“I don’t think that that’s a healthy way to play quarterback in this league,” said McDermott, in a video posted by the team. “It’s really undefeated that things are going to happen when you play that style, that brand of football. So, we’ve got to get that adjusted. It’s never going to go completely away but it has to get to where it’s workable. I don’t want to take his personality away from him as far as that goes. His signature. But there needs to be an adjustment in that style of play.”

Manually warping the “style” of your most valuable commodity should’ve slotted in as the 2,789th item on the Bills’ offseason agenda. But this was no surprise.

This is a head coach with a low Quarterback IQ.

[Rico]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't understand the need for an ad hominem attack.   You don't know me, my character, what I've done...

 

In any case, I've admitted in this thread that (1) I likewise don't know Dunne personally or his character, (2) I don't believe Dunne presented anything as factual that wasn't factual, (3) I do believe Dunne believed every word that he wrote, and (4) I don't actually know what McD is like on the practice field, in the locker room or the training facility.

 

But here's what bugs me: Dunne's judged the man.   For example, he writes, "Coaches see a boss who preaches accountability while taking none himself."  It's one thing to criticize a coach's tactical decisions, another thing altogether to attack the person.  And Dunne doesn't have the right to speak for the coaches -  I am certain that there are Bills coaches who would disagree with Dunne's characterization.  

 

I'm not sure if McD is a good enough coach to get us a Lombardi.  Maybe he is "tight" and has some of the other shortcomings Dunne described.  But when Dunne stoops to character assassination, which I've seen in quotes from the article, I'm not a fan.  Neither is Micah Hyde.  And, btw, Sherfield says Hyde was speaking for the team when he rebutted Dunne.  

 

But I'm not sticking up for McD as much as I'm sticking up for human respect and kindness.  I don't believe in attacking people.  It's a crappy thing to do.  And I don't need to read 20,000 words to know that.  If a criminal robs 20,000 people, I don't need to witness every theft to know I'm not a fan.  

Me, I’m not here to defend McD at all, it’s all about bashing Tyler Dunne, been doing it for years now.  

 

Still have at least 5 games to play, let’s see what happens.

[Scott7975]

Start with the player who helped him become a head coach: Cam Newton. When the former No. 1 overall pick shapeshifted into molten lava on NFL defenses throughout the 2015 season — an MVP season, a 15-1 season — McDermott was the Carolina Panthers’ defensive coordinator. One of many individuals to directly benefit from Newton throwing for 3,837 yards, rushing for 636 and scoring 45 touchdowns in leading Carolina to the Super Bowl. In 2016, the Panthers went 6-10. In 2017, McDermott was named the 20th coach in Bills history.

This did not stop McDermott from bashing Newton in staff meetings.

One of the Bills assistants Go Long spoke to for this series said that McDermott’s “frame of reference” as a coach was watching Newton — in his mind — “ruin” the Panthers. “He used to come into offensive staff meetings,” this source said, “and just motherf--k Cam Newton.” Aside from the objective lunacy, this created… awkwardness. Before becoming the Bills’ quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator, Ken Dorsey served as Newton’s coach from ‘13 to ‘17. Dorsey was the coach most responsible for Newton’s rise, thus Dorsey understandably wondered if McDermott knew he was sitting in the same room.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'll leave you all today with another snippet. This time from part III.  It might even be part of the free stuff, IDK?  But some people might not have found it even if it is.  I'm not actually leaving yet but soon.  You can all sing tears of joy 😃

 

There are two distinct versions of Josh Allen this 2023 season. One is fun. One takes off on the run — “The crowd loves it!” Al Michaels professes — and holds the football over the goal line while staring down a Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback. All at full speed.

This version gets a Cincinnati Bengals safety to leave his feet with a pump fake, points, laughs and runs in for a TD. Flag ‘n fine, be damned. Meanwhile, Sean McDermott, spits on the turf and purses his lips. Fifteen yards lost on a kickoff likely means more to the Buffalo Bills head coach than any momentum gained by his backyard quarterback rediscovering himself.

This version, at rain-slopped Philadelphia, rams through Reed Blankenship at the goal line, chucks the ball against the backstop and — flanked by teammates — swaggers right into the teeth of those trash-talking Eagles fans as if welcoming a dark-alley fight. The TD launched a tour de force for the quarterback: 420 total yards, four touchdowns. 

“No. 17 is just a different bird,” said one friend and former pro teammate. “He’s wired different. He’s not like most of these quarterbacks. He wants to make dick jokes and run into people.”

If Buffalonians could create the quarterback they’ve always desired in a lab, it’s exactly this.

But then, there’s the other Allen. The pale, stupefied, knockoff version who trudges to the sideline after an interception vs. Denver with McDermott screaming in his ear.

Unlike his boss, Allen does not come remotely close to assigning blame. Doesn’t embarrass receivers on national TV. Doesn’t snipe into earholes on the sidelines. Doesn’t kindly remind the public what McDermott said back in March when, in truth, it’s fully within his rights to alert your attention to these trainwreck comments. When, in reality, this is everything a former Bills assistant coach meant when he said this team is forced to “overcome the head coach.” Everything a former teammate meant by McDermott serving as a drop of “poison.”

A smart coach does everything in his power to accentuate the first version of Allen.

Realize you’ve been gifted a Marvel character at the most important position in sports and let him fly.

Then, there’s McDermott sitting down with NFL Network last March. He made it abundantly clear that Allen needed to siphon these sorts of plays out of his game. 

“I don’t think that that’s a healthy way to play quarterback in this league,” said McDermott, in a video posted by the team. “It’s really undefeated that things are going to happen when you play that style, that brand of football. So, we’ve got to get that adjusted. It’s never going to go completely away but it has to get to where it’s workable. I don’t want to take his personality away from him as far as that goes. His signature. But there needs to be an adjustment in that style of play.”

Manually warping the “style” of your most valuable commodity should’ve slotted in as the 2,789th item on the Bills’ offseason agenda. But this was no surprise.

This is a head coach with a low Quarterback IQ.

So when Daboll would scream at him that was OK but not the HC?  Ok.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So when Daboll would scream at him that was OK but not the HC?  Ok.

 

Thats a fair point.  Is that all you took from that?

 

I would counter that Daboll did a lot more than just scream at Allen and they have a very good relationship.  Is there anything out there showing McD and Josh have a good relationship?  I've never seen them hug or barely ever see them communicate whatsoever tbh.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scott7975

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Start with the player who helped him become a head coach: Cam Newton. When the former No. 1 overall pick shapeshifted into molten lava on NFL defenses throughout the 2015 season — an MVP season, a 15-1 season — McDermott was the Carolina Panthers’ defensive coordinator. One of many individuals to directly benefit from Newton throwing for 3,837 yards, rushing for 636 and scoring 45 touchdowns in leading Carolina to the Super Bowl. In 2016, the Panthers went 6-10. In 2017, McDermott was named the 20th coach in Bills history.

This did not stop McDermott from bashing Newton in staff meetings.

One of the Bills assistants Go Long spoke to for this series said that McDermott’s “frame of reference” as a coach was watching Newton — in his mind — “ruin” the Panthers. “He used to come into offensive staff meetings,” this source said, “and just motherf--k Cam Newton.” Aside from the objective lunacy, this created… awkwardness. Before becoming the Bills’ quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator, Ken Dorsey served as Newton’s coach from ‘13 to ‘17. Dorsey was the coach most responsible for Newton’s rise, thus Dorsey understandably wondered if McDermott knew he was sitting in the same room.

So the guy that just got fired and has been watching the offense immediately turn things around without him is one of the sources?

[Scott7975]

Just now, Warcodered said:

So the guy that just got fired and has been watching the offense immediately turn things around without him is one of the sources?

It could be.  Sounds like maybe?  I can't say for sure.

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yeah, it's fine I will just agree to disagree.  If someone is in the office and McD leaves before them then he didn't sleep there.  Could be made up, I guess.

 

Yes, it does matter to me if he says he sleeps at work to try and look a certain way to everyone but doesn't actually sleep at work.  Its fake and phony to me.  I'd prefer genuine.  If he works hard then he works hard.  Just say that. Say I stay up home till 2am watching film and get up at 4am to go back to work, I don't care.  Just don't make up something if it doesn't happen.

 

To be clear, I have no doubts that McD works hard. He for sure does.  Unlike clown Rex Ryan.  I also have no doubts that he is a good dude and really is doing his best to win.  I just don't need anything phony about that.  I hate fake people with a passion.

 

He used sources he has access too.  It's that simple.  Josh Allen wasn't calling him up on the phone to talk about the behind the scenes.  I don't care if people are disgruntled. They can still speak truths.  They can still speak on their perspectives. There were also sources not speaking disgruntled or poorly of McD to semi balance that. Dunne himself did not entirely speak poorly of McD.  But again, I take all this with a grain of salt and treat it for what it is and make my own opinion.  This thread is nothing more than people bringing out pitch forks because they are afraid of McD getting fired.

It’s entirely possible that Josh was a source or verified the info from other sources for this piece. Dunne seems very confident that everything written is legit. If anyone hates McD, it would definitely be Josh.

 

I think there’s zero chance Dunne isn’t talking to active players and if McD is actually the guy portrayed in the article, he will immediately try to identify the snitches in the building so we should pay attention to firings, demotions, cuts, and other retaliations.

 

So, AJ Klein, you’re busted. McD found you out and now you’re cut. lol.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Governor

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

I'll leave you all today with another snippet. This time from part III.  It might even be part of the free stuff, IDK?  But some people might not have found it even if it is.  I'm not actually leaving yet but soon.  You can all sing tears of joy 😃

 

There are two distinct versions of Josh Allen this 2023 season. One is fun. One takes off on the run — “The crowd loves it!” Al Michaels professes — and holds the football over the goal line while staring down a Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback. All at full speed.

This version gets a Cincinnati Bengals safety to leave his feet with a pump fake, points, laughs and runs in for a TD. Flag ‘n fine, be damned. Meanwhile, Sean McDermott, spits on the turf and purses his lips. Fifteen yards lost on a kickoff likely means more to the Buffalo Bills head coach than any momentum gained by his backyard quarterback rediscovering himself.

This version, at rain-slopped Philadelphia, rams through Reed Blankenship at the goal line, chucks the ball against the backstop and — flanked by teammates — swaggers right into the teeth of those trash-talking Eagles fans as if welcoming a dark-alley fight. The TD launched a tour de force for the quarterback: 420 total yards, four touchdowns. 

“No. 17 is just a different bird,” said one friend and former pro teammate. “He’s wired different. He’s not like most of these quarterbacks. He wants to make dick jokes and run into people.”

If Buffalonians could create the quarterback they’ve always desired in a lab, it’s exactly this.

But then, there’s the other Allen. The pale, stupefied, knockoff version who trudges to the sideline after an interception vs. Denver with McDermott screaming in his ear.

Unlike his boss, Allen does not come remotely close to assigning blame. Doesn’t embarrass receivers on national TV. Doesn’t snipe into earholes on the sidelines. Doesn’t kindly remind the public what McDermott said back in March when, in truth, it’s fully within his rights to alert your attention to these trainwreck comments. When, in reality, this is everything a former Bills assistant coach meant when he said this team is forced to “overcome the head coach.” Everything a former teammate meant by McDermott serving as a drop of “poison.”

A smart coach does everything in his power to accentuate the first version of Allen.

Realize you’ve been gifted a Marvel character at the most important position in sports and let him fly.

Then, there’s McDermott sitting down with NFL Network last March. He made it abundantly clear that Allen needed to siphon these sorts of plays out of his game. 

“I don’t think that that’s a healthy way to play quarterback in this league,” said McDermott, in a video posted by the team. “It’s really undefeated that things are going to happen when you play that style, that brand of football. So, we’ve got to get that adjusted. It’s never going to go completely away but it has to get to where it’s workable. I don’t want to take his personality away from him as far as that goes. His signature. But there needs to be an adjustment in that style of play.”

Manually warping the “style” of your most valuable commodity should’ve slotted in as the 2,789th item on the Bills’ offseason agenda. But this was no surprise.

This is a head coach with a low Quarterback IQ.

That's in the free sample online.

 

 

[Scott7975]

30 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That's in the free sample online.

 

 

Thanks. Wasn’t sure. I’ll leave another non free one in a bit. At least one I think is not free. I can’t really tell. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

Here is a snippet from the paid section.  Remember I am just the person pasting this for you guys and not the writer.  Asking me questions about it are things I can't really answer other than my opinion...

 

Let’s not forget one of McDermott’s first dalliances into scapegoating. After the Bills defense surrendered 47 points, 482 yards and 32 first downs to the New Orleans Saints his first season on the job, he benched Tyrod Taylor for Nathan Peterman. Disaster ensued. Peterman suffered the worst game by a QB in 40 years and the fourth-worst in NFL history: 6 of 15 for 66 yards, five interceptions in one half. As if scripting his own comedy, McDermott named Peterman the Week 1 starter the very next season. The on-field results were, again, tragic: 5 of 18 for 24 yards, two interceptions.

Boorish handling of the position that should’ve served as an immediate red flag.

McDermott seems intent on fighting against the NFL’s inherent gravitational pull toward the position. Allen is the No. 1 reason the Bills have won three straight division titles. Allen is the No. 1 reason that McDermott not only stays employed but earns millions of dollars. He inked a contract extension through the 2027 season. His base salary has previously been reported at $8.5 million per year.

Nonetheless, when Allen decided to put roots down and build a house with his then-girlfriend in Western New York, his boss was livid. Inside staff meetings, one source said McDermott would bark: “Tell Josh to stop worrying about that !@#$ house! We’ve got the season coming up. When the season starts, that needs to be Brittany’s issue and not !@#$ his.” Coaches, understandably, were stunned. They shared What the…? glances of disillusionment and moved on.

That’s all you can do usually: Shake your head. Move on.

Yes, the problem in Buffalo is the head coach. Most specifically, it’s his cluelessness concerning the most valuable employee of the franchise. He is repeatedly described by coaches and former players as blind to the fact that he was gifted one of the best quarterbacks in the sport. As long as McDermott is the team’s head coach — pinning his own QB in a Half Nelson — the Bills are fighting against themselves more than any opponent.

Forces of good have tried. That 2021 offense that said “!@#$ it” and freed Allen was on track to host the AFC Championship Game and win the Super Bowl. Beane did offer his own public comments on Allen’s game. But one source indicated that he wanted the quarterback to simply slide more often, and never at the expense of what makes Allen special. The GM understands the team runs through its quarterback.

The moment it became clear that Allen was a special talent, the No. 1 priority for the entire organization should’ve been to do everything humanly possible to let Hulk smash. Celebrate his unique game. Don’t punish it. Don’t manually scatter the field with red tape and construction cones and hyper-analyze every breath he takes. Asking Allen to dull his play style, as written, is thwarting art. Take comedy, for example. The most creative minds are unafraid to push their boundaries. They’re not worried about getting cancelled by a legion of keyboard warriors. The best of the best, Carlin to Chappelle, have all made people uncomfortable.

That’s how true innovation is possible in any artistic field. The person with the mic, the pen, the paintbrush, the football takes a chance. Allen may cross a line. He may even — gasp! — throw an interception. But putting such thoughts in his head, period, was insanely counterproductive.

Allen is Brett Favre.

If McDermott hasn’t realized that by now, he never will.

“Go back and rewrite the draft,” said the teammate/friend who was also a trusted leader in this locker room, “Josh Allen’s going No. 1, not No. 7. So you get a franchise Hall of Fame quarterback that six people passed up on. And now all you folks get to make 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 million because No. 17. I’d write him a damn ‘Thank You’ letter once a week.”  

After the Bills’ 24-22 loss to the Denver Broncos, Allen was ominous. He admitted “the clock’s ticking.”

This former teammate is more pointed.

“It’s a ticking time bomb, man.”

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

[Process]

 

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

 

I really don't wanna laugh but it was pretty funny.  What comes to my mind though is, is this any better than McD trying to use the situation as a motivational speech about communication?  Some guy making a joke of the situation?  I'm not sure.

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, Process said:

 

 

Oof

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Ok and I am supposed to know that how Richard?

 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I really don't wanna laugh but it was pretty funny.  What comes to my mind though is, is this any better than McD trying to use the situation as a motivational speech about communication?  Some guy making a joke of the situation?  I'm not sure.

 

I laughed.