Broncos @ Bills - Postgame Thread

[GETTOTHE50]

bless dions heart.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Count them up. Just this year alone we lost on a punt return in ot and tonight’s debacle. 

 

I guess it was better getting their heads kicked in by 30 points on a weekly basis in those other years 3 times as frequently.

[LABILLBACKER]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The thing that really is sticking with me is why does Allen keep making the same stupid throws week in and week out all of a sudden?

 

The second INT that he threw towards Harty was the same throw that got picked off last week by the Bengals and the same mistake(throwing the ball too inside), but the guy wasn't open to begin with...

 

Then he almost threw another INT to Kincaid where the defender was out of bounds because he couldn't get his 2nd foot down that was the exact same INT he threw in the Patriot game when he tried to hit Knox on the first play of the game.

 

WTF is he doing?  Why isn't he learning from his mistakes and why does he keep making the same ones over and over again? 

Because he's the most athletic qb to ever play in Buffalo,  but he'll never be a cerebral qb.  He's not dumb but he does struggle with field vision. And his reckless DNA will probably never be completely extinguished. Dorsey with horrific playcalling is doing him no favors. But there's plenty of blame that needs to be placed on 17.  McD is so wrong for Allen it's really sad.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Does anyone think Allen prepares for games?  He looks like *****.   Guy doesn't train at all.  Hollywood Allen sucks

Edited November 14, 2023 by Dablitzkrieg

[Nelius]

Rasul Douglas is a pro that’s handling these post game questions really well considering he’s days in. Media peppering him like nobody else will talk much. Pretty weird all around 

[Success]

Sign o' the times. I'm googling "how to stop being a sports fan"...

 

[Zag20]

4 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Does anyone think Allen prepares for games?  He looks like *****.   Guy doesn't train at all.  Hollywood Allen sucks

Allen needs to be managed, which is what Daboll did. That isn’t happening now. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

5 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

Allen needs to be managed, which is what Daboll did. That isn’t happening now. 

He's not mentally there right now.   I wonder if that waitress had the baby 👶 

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Does anyone think Allen prepares for games?  He looks like *****.   Guy doesn't train at all.  Hollywood Allen sucks

I’m pretty certain he trains and prepares. Do you honestly think he enjoys press conference after press conference asking why he looks rubbish?

 

Then again, if the HC absolves himself of all responsibility why should any of the players take it on their shoulders?

[GETTOTHE50]

daboll is to trautman as josh is to rambo.

[Roundybout]

13 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Does anyone think Allen prepares for games?  He looks like *****.   Guy doesn't train at all.  Hollywood Allen sucks

 

Every other quarterback has a coach in his ear. We have Pencil Neck the Clown sitting in his booth spamming the same 3 plays all game.

[DapperCam]

One moment I haven’t seen commented on was Epenesa missing the strip sack on the first cover zero blitz.

 

He rushed on the blind side and Wilson had no idea he was about to be hit and the ball was just hanging out there. A tiny bit more awareness and he could have popped it out no problem.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Because he's the most athletic qb to ever play in Buffalo,  but he'll never be a cerebral qb.  He's not dumb but he does struggle with field vision. And his reckless DNA will probably never be completely extinguished. Dorsey with horrific playcalling is doing him no favors. But there's plenty of blame that needs to be placed on 17.  McD is so wrong for Allen it's really sad.

Think about how much McD AND Bean have screwed up the amazing luck of landing Allen in the 2018 draft.  The Bills got their franchise QB who was capable of doing things no other QB could do.  Allen is a uniquely gifted QB that requires some special handing.  Nothing major but some common sense stuff that would be a no brainer for Andy Reid or Sean Payton or Nick Sirianni or Zack Taylor or Sean McVay or Mike Macdaniel or Doug Pederson. 

 

First, they would surround Allen with the complimentary offensive talent that would best fit his at times reckless style and propensity to make big off script plays.  Who is Allen's go to guy for catching 50/50 balls?  There are receivers all over the NFL that would thrive high pointing Allen missiles down field.  And would any offensive minded coach place so little value on the O line that the Bills have over the last 5 seasons?

 

We could go on and on but we all get the picture.  The Bills brain trust bet big time on the defense and the idea that Allen could carry the offense on his back with lesser talent around him.  And over the last 3 years they were mostly right.  But while other offenses were setting their elite franchise QB's up with great O lines and multiple outstanding skill players the Bills kept their focus on the D.  So the O got worse and worse relative to their peers while the D never became dominant, particularly in big playoff games.

 

There is only one fix for this.  Fire McD/Bean and start over with the best offensively minded GM & HC you can get. This is IMO the only path that will reopen the Bills SB window.

 

 

 

 

[34-78-83]

Craziest observation from tonight- I can't recall a better performance by a Bills O-line in the Josh Allen era. The were blasting open big, obvious holes in the run game and pass protection for Josh hasn't been better all season. I can't fathom losing a game to any team when that happens. Craziest bummer of a game in a long time for me.

[DuckyBoys]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Think about how much McD AND Bean have screwed up the amazing luck of landing Allen in the 2018 draft.  The Bills got their franchise QB who was capable of doing things no other QB could do.  Allen is a uniquely gifted QB that requires some special handing.  Nothing major but some common sense stuff that would be a no brainer for Andy Reid or Sean Payton or Nick Sirianni or Zack Taylor or Sean McVay or Mike Macdaniel or Doug Pederson. 

 

First, they would surround Allen with the complimentary offensive talent that would best fit his at times reckless style and propensity to make big off script plays.  Who is Allen's go to guy for catching 50/50 balls?  There are receivers all over the NFL that would thrive high pointing Allen missiles down field.  And would any offensive minded coach place so little value on the O line that the Bills have over the last 5 seasons?

 

We could go on and on but we all get the picture.  The Bills brain trust bet big time on the defense and the idea that Allen could carry the offense on his back with lesser talent around him.  And over the last 3 years they were mostly right.  But while other offenses were setting their elite franchise QB's up with great O lines and multiple outstanding skill players the Bills kept their focus on the D.  So the O got worse and worse relative to their peers while the D never became dominant, particularly in big playoff games.

 

There is only one fix for this.  Fire McD/Bean and start over with the best offensively minded GM & HC you can get. This is IMO the only path that will reopen the Bills SB window.

 

 

 

 

Truth bomb   Their go to plan was smurf wrs  for a few seasons  Then no nfl quality o line  and still no consistent run game  Add in gems like drafting a 290 lb DE and then  asking him to lose 60 lbs  Drafting a handsy press man corner to play zone.  We play in a windy outdoor stadium and in cold snowy conditions so a precision passing game makes 100% sense 

2 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Craziest observation from tonight- I can't recall a better performance by a Bills O-line in the Josh Allen era. The were blasting open big, obvious holes in the run game and pass protection for Josh hasn't been better all season. I can't fathom losing a game to any team when that happens. Craziest bummer of a game in a long time for me.

yeah that was weird Yet again didnt capitalize

[Figster]

8 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

Allen needs to be managed, which is what Daboll did. That isn’t happening now. 

While I don't fault Ken Dorsey for Allens poor decisions on the football field. What you say is true because Dorsey doesn't have the balls to chew Allen out.  

 

Well put Zag20...

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

While I don't fault Ken Dorsey for Allens poor decisions on the football field. What you say is true because Dorsey doesn't have the balls to chew Allen out.  

 

Well put Zag20...

Or he doesn’t chew Josh out on the right way to get his head straight? Instead, he’s sent him into a tailspin.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

Or he doesn’t chew Josh out on the right way to get his head straight? Instead, he’s sent him into a tailspin.

Fair enough, I suppose that may also be the case. Daboll and Allen worked very well together. I hate to wish bad things on HC Daboll, but I hope he gets fired and comes back to his boy Josh, lol

[Dan Darragh]

43 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

1. Needed wake up call

 

2. Better call another players only meeting

 

3. Play complimentary football

 

If you do these 3 things the bills win the super bowl! 

4. Get into a rhythm

[CincyBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

Allen needs to be managed, which is what Daboll did. That isn’t happening now. 

The worst thing you could do is "manage Allen".  That is what McD is trying to do and it's destroying what makes Allen special and neutering the offense in the process. Allen is a special talent that needs special handling like Brett Favre or John Elway did to fully exploit his talents. 

 

And for the record DaBoll did not "manage" Allen he exploited Allen's unique and elite skill set.  And he did this successfully operating within an organization that favored the defense with the lions share of resources and never was willing to commit to assembling an elite offense to put around it's elite QB.

 

So instead of managing Allen the Bills need to:

 

*  First the Bills need an offensive mind that embraces and game plans around what Allen does best. DaBoll was that sort of offensive mind.  I suspect there are a lot of guys out there who could do it as DaBoll wasn't really all that special.  What he did with Allen was common sense when faced with a talent like Allen.

 

*  Second, the Bills need to surround Allen with high end complimentary skill players who can best take advantage of Allen's strengths.  Who is the Bills go to 50/50 pass catcher?  Why aren't the Bills emphasizing SPEED like the dolphins do.  And emphasizing speed isn't signing some role player who has lost a step like Harty.

 

*  Third, the Bills need a first rate O line.  For 5 seasons they bring in career back ups and lower draft picks and try to create a patch work line that at best is average and often much below that.

 

*  And finally the Bills need an offensive minded head coach that can get in Allen's face and lay the law down.  

 

Bean/McD's strategic plan was to build an elite D while relying on Allen to elevate the average offensive talent they put around him.  And Allen did elevate that talent which led to high scoring offenses and four straight trips to the playoffs and three straight division titles.  But the D never became truly elite and was the main cause for the Bills playoff exits all 4 years.

 

 

 

[Dan Darragh]

41 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I guess it was better getting their heads kicked in by 30 points on a weekly basis in those other years 3 times as frequently.

I used to pray that the Bills would start the season 0-5 so I could sit back and enjoy the games the rest of the season.

[Gunsgoodtime]

I see all these comments and terrible post about Josh Allen, but I fail to see how the 1st fumble in the 1st play of the game, and the right through the hands pads to Gabe Davis for an Interception just should be forgotten 

1 minute ago, Dan Darragh said:

I used to pray that the Bills would start the season 0-5 so I could sit back and enjoy the games the rest of the season.

It may not be as early as wished for, but its certainly a reasonable amount of time to not worry about the Bills for sure

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

I see all these comments and terrible post about Josh Allen, but I fail to see how the 1st fumble in the 1st play of the game, and the right through the hands pads to Gabe Davis for an Interception just should be forgotten 

While Josh has had a lot of errors that have put us in bad spots. He’s not the heart of the problem. The scheme is all wrong for his playing style. No creativity, nothing. We need an offensive guru. 

[34-78-83]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The worst thing you could do is "manage Allen".  That is what McD is trying to do and it's destroying what makes Allen special and neutering the offense in the process. Allen is a special talent that needs special handling like Brett Favre or John Elway did to fully exploit his talents. 

 

And for the record DaBoll did not "manage" Allen he exploited Allen's unique and elite skill set.  And he did this successfully operating within an organization that favored the defense with the lions share of resources and never was willing to commit to assembling an elite offense to put around it's elite QB.

 

So instead of managing Allen the Bills need to:

 

*  First the Bills need an offensive mind that embraces and game plans around what Allen does best. DaBoll was that sort of offensive mind.  I suspect there are a lot of guys out there who could do it as DaBoll wasn't really all that special.  What he did with Allen was common sense when faced with a talent like Allen.

 

*  Second, the Bills need to surround Allen with high end complimentary skill players who can best take advantage of Allen's strengths.  Who is the Bills go to 50/50 pass catcher?  Why aren't the Bills emphasizing SPEED like the dolphins do.  And emphasizing speed isn't signing some role player who has lost a step like Harty.

 

*  Third, the Bills need a first rate O line.  For 5 seasons they bring in career back ups and lower draft picks and try to create a patch work line that at best is average and often much below that.

 

*  And finally the Bills need an offensive minded head coach that can get in Allen's face and lay the law down.  

 

Bean/McD's strategic plan was to build an elite D while relying on Allen to elevate the average offensive talent they put around him.  And Allen did elevate that talent which led to high scoring offenses and four straight trips to the playoffs and three straight division titles.  But the D never became truly elite and was the main cause for the Bills playoff exits all 4 years.

 

 

 

The O-line absolutely crushed it tonight. I do like your point about needing to add high end complimentary skill players though.

[Roundybout]

Ultimately it’s going to be on media to keep up the pressure and demand answers from everyone up to Pegula. 

[sven233]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

Wide Right

Music City Miracle

Just Give it To ‘Em

13 Seconds

12 Men

 

what am I missing?

 

Fourth and Stupid

Just Knock it Down

The Peterman Game

 

I know there's a bunch more, but I'm tired.....

[Gunsgoodtime]

Just now, Roundybout said:

Ultimately it’s going to be on media to keep up the pressure and demand answers from everyone up to Pegula. 

We know nothing will happen, at worst Dorsey goes at the end of the year.  At best won't happen

[Dan Darragh]

6 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

It may not be as early as wished for, but its certainly a reasonable amount of time to not worry about the Bills for sure

Wait until after the Jets game.  Will the Bills be a home 'dog next week?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Dan Darragh

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said:

The O-line absolutely crushed it tonight. I do like your point about needing to add high end complimentary skill players though.

I agree which makes this game all the more frustrating.  This offense is completely discombobulated.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

On the bright side, at least we can all agree there needs to be changes.

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, Dan Darragh said:

Wait until after the Jets game.  Will the Bills be a home 'dog next week?

I dont think it really matters anymore honestly 

[letsgoteam]

3 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

Fourth and Stupid

Just Knock it Down

The Peterman Game

 

I know there's a bunch more, but I'm tired.....

Which one is fourth and stupid?

[DapperCam]

Do they really think people are going to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for private seat licenses for a 7-10 team? Pegula needs to get people excited somehow. Funding the new stadium depends on it.

[Dan Darragh]

5 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

I dont think it really matters anymore honestly 

You obviously don't have any Jets fans in your life.

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Do they really think people are going to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for private seat licenses for a 7-10 team? Pegula needs to get people excited somehow. Funding the new stadium depends on it.

I’m not even going to shell out Sunday ticket purchases if changes don’t happen next year. Not a single cent. 

[Figster]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The worst thing you could do is "manage Allen".  That is what McD is trying to do and it's destroying what makes Allen special and neutering the offense in the process. Allen is a special talent that needs special handling like Brett Favre or John Elway did to fully exploit his talents. 

 

And for the record DaBoll did not "manage" Allen he exploited Allen's unique and elite skill set.  And he did this successfully operating within an organization that favored the defense with the lions share of resources and never was willing to commit to assembling an elite offense to put around it's elite QB.

 

So instead of managing Allen the Bills need to:

 

*  First the Bills need an offensive mind that embraces and game plans around what Allen does best. DaBoll was that sort of offensive mind.  I suspect there are a lot of guys out there who could do it as DaBoll wasn't really all that special.  What he did with Allen was common sense when faced with a talent like Allen.

 

*  Second, the Bills need to surround Allen with high end complimentary skill players who can best take advantage of Allen's strengths.  Who is the Bills go to 50/50 pass catcher?  Why aren't the Bills emphasizing SPEED like the dolphins do.  And emphasizing speed isn't signing some role player who has lost a step like Harty.

 

*  Third, the Bills need a first rate O line.  For 5 seasons they bring in career back ups and lower draft picks and try to create a patch work line that at best is average and often much below that.

 

*  And finally the Bills need an offensive minded head coach that can get in Allen's face and lay the law down.  

 

Bean/McD's strategic plan was to build an elite D while relying on Allen to elevate the average offensive talent they put around him.  And Allen did elevate that talent which led to high scoring offenses and four straight trips to the playoffs and three straight division titles.  But the D never became truly elite and was the main cause for the Bills playoff exits all 4 years.

 

 

 

Managing Allen doesn't mean you have to eliminate what makes him great. There's a time and place for everything. Throwing into double, even triple coverage is a mistake waiting to happen. Daboll ran Allen like a RB exploiting Allens skill set. Its not something that is going to give one of the best arms the NFL has ever seen, longevity.

 

You get that right?  

[Nextmanup]

9 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

We know nothing will happen, at worst Dorsey goes at the end of the year.  At best won't happen

I can't FATHOM surviving this season; he's gone for sure.  The question is who else is gone with him.

 

If McBeane remain, not sure much will change, especially if McDimwit is dictating playing style to the OC.

 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Im sorry, I have no respect for a guy who dogs it out there and who can’t hang on to a simple slant in the red zone, then won’t even own up for it. 

Except running the ball was the correct game plan today and he refused to do it.

I don’t see him dogging it at all.  He’s a limit route runner.  He’s good on routes down the field.   He’s a good run blocker but he’s not a #2.  Certainly not dogging it 

16 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

The O-line absolutely crushed it tonight. I do like your point about needing to add high end complimentary skill players though.

Yes the OL was fantastic tonight.  Albeit against a bad bad passing team and run defense 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Managing Allen doesn't mean you have to eliminate what makes him great. There's a time and place for everything. Throwing into double, even triple coverage is a mistake waiting to happen. Daboll ran Allen like a RB exploiting Allens skill set. Its not something that is going to give one of the best arms the NFL has ever seen, longevity.

 

You get that right?  

After 2019, DaBoll did a lot more than run Allen like a RB. In 2020, 2021 & 2022 the Bills had an elite passing attack led by Allen. 

 

And other then supporting Beans need to use Allen as a CAP ATM machine for extending the contract and freeing up money how valuable is "longevity"?  And what defines "longevity"?  Is another 6 or 7 years with Allen and the offense being highly productive using his full skill set and the Bills knocking on the SB door really worse then 10 to 12 more years of a less effective Allen?  I wonder what Allen would want?

 

But maybe you're right and the Bills can find the sweet spot where they "manage" Allen, extending his career while maintaining the "it" factor that makes Allen great.  But to do that they'll need to get coaches with the right skill sets to make it happen.  And more importantly they'll have to change the franchises focus from the defense to the offense.  I don't see McD or Bean as the guys to do it.

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

12 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I can't FATHOM surviving this season; he's gone for sure.  The question is who else is gone with him.

 

If McBeane remain, not sure much will change, especially if McDimwit is dictating playing style to the OC.

 

 

That's why they all should go next year.  Our cap, fa's, etc is awful next year.  Reset, let a new offensive regime start the course for 2025.  Or as many of you want, repeat insanity expecting different results