HOW TIMES HAVE CHANGED

[Stroke 17]

Being a 50 year season ticket holder I have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, the very good and the very bad. In the years after the Super Bowls and the team was mediocre, at best, I attended and watched the games with the high hopes of the Bills upsetting a good team or winning against other average teams. I always thought "on any given Sunday" the Bills would pull off the upset. 

Now that we are (supposedly ) one of the better teams each week has me thinking that the other team thinks like I used to think, unfortunately this year it is coming true for them too often, I am just so frustrated with the game day coaching, the poor play and the excuses. I realize our defense is decimated but they are doing a fairly good job but our so called high flying offense from past years is crazy bad, bar a few drives a GAME.

 

Watching games today and seeing teams like the Pats, Jags ,Bengals and the Giants  I can't  help but wonder how the hello they got beat or almost beat by those teams. Dare I say it can only be coaching. That gives me little hope going forward. However, being the eternal optimist I have changed my expectations from expecting a win against inferior teams to, maybe the Bills can pull off a few upsets against good teams and play the bad or average teams close in spite of the coaching.

GO BILLS

THEY'RE KILLIN ME WHITEY, THEY'RE KILLIN ME

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Stroke 17 said:

Watching games today and seeing teams like the Pats, Jags ,Bengals and the Giants  I can't  help but wonder how the hello they got beat or almost beat by those teams. Dare I say it can only be coaching. That gives me little hope going forward. However, being the eternal optimist I have changed my expectations from expecting a win against inferior teams to, maybe the Bills can pull off a few upsets against good teams and play the bad or average teams close in spite of the coaching.

GO BILLS

THEY'RE KILLIN ME WHITEY, THEY'RE KILLIN ME

 

EASY, Lou, EASY now!!! 😄 A LOT of top teams lost today... this season is absolutely INSANE... never seen so much parity.

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Stroke 17 said:

Dare I say it can only be coaching.

 

At least that's become clear.  

 

Now the ball is in Pegula's court.  

 

There's definitely a pall hovering over our fanbase.  

 

The situation isn't the best marketing approach for selling pricey seats & PSLs for the new stadium. 

 

 

[Mark Vader]

7 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

EASY, Lou, EASY now!!! 😄 A LOT of top teams lost today... this season is absolutely INSANE... never seen so much parity.

I doubt that whomever the top seeds are come playoff time, will make it to the Super Bowl.

[Marcus Aurelius]

When was the last time the Bills exceeded expectations?

[John from Riverside]

I think it’s pete

[TheyCallMeAndy]

This will trigger lots of fans, but I think part of it is Bills fans got entitled.

 

We are coming off a 10, 13, 11, and 13 win season. We witnessed greatness, flat out dominance at times over that run. We spanked big names, in prime time, in their houses on many occasions. 
 

Bills were everywhere, Josh’s face is on everything, and we witnessed greatness from the QB position to a level we have never seen.

 

We spent the last 20 years watching Brady, where QB greatness = rings. I think it has become expected. I think the players fell into the same trap. 
 

Problem is, any given Sunday isn’t a myth. There are no assumed victory’s.  The other problem is other key moves haven’t paid off, making the SB entitlement rather difficult. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[BuffaloBillyG]

You can't coach players to be younger. Can't coach players to not get injured. Can't coach players to be faster. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

When was the last time the Bills exceeded expectations?

Any time they won with Fitz at qb

[RiotAct]

who you callin whitey, pal???

[TheyCallMeAndy]

For the downfall of this message board, I feel we hyper focused on the valley’s , and don’t appreciate the peaks. When things are good, reasons not to get too excited are always vomited up like an hairball and thrown around. We are hyper obsessed with the journey, but we only catch the positive “did you see that!?” moments of other teams, so we think other teams don’t go through bad times, other QBs don’t make mistakes, other coaches don’t make poor decisions. 
 

Or at least, our problems are always worse, our coaches are worse, are players are worse. 
 

I still like our QB, GM, and (gasp) HC. We are in a small transition, but we have a strong foundation. 

[LABILLBACKER]

For McDermott,  the first red flag was the Houston game. Then 3 more playoff exits , including the 13 sec debacle. Then when we practically lost to the Giants this year, it was the last straw. I've seen enough.  There won't be a "next level" for McDermott.  He continues to fire the people he hires.  Dorsey will undoubtedly be next.  Besides Josh & Diggs, this team desperately needs better coaching...smarter decisions & play calling.  I get the relentless love affair with McD.  He pulled us out of the bowels of the drought.  But even a great administrator can only turn an organization around to a point.  The offense this year is a mess. Josh has way too many people in his head.  And Sean had every opportunity for 6 years to build a monster offense.  But he chose to emphasize the D.  The same D that's failed us in 4 straight playoff exits.  

[stinky finger]

29 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

EASY, Lou, EASY now!!! 😄 A LOT of top teams lost today... this season is absolutely INSANE... never seen so much parity.

Other teams losing does not negate the fact that our offense has a systemic problem. 

 

And I’m not confident they know how to correct.

[stinky finger]

22 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This will trigger lots of fans, but I think part of it is Bills fans got entitled.

 

We are coming off a 10, 13, 11, and 13 win season. We witnessed greatness, flat out dominance at times over that run. We spanked big names, in prime time, in their houses on many occasions. 
 

Bills were everywhere, Josh’s face is on everything, and we witnessed greatness from the QB position to a level we have never seen.

 

We spent the last 20 years watching Brady, where QB greatness = rings. I think it has become expected. I think the players fell into the same trap. 
 

Problem is, any given Sunday isn’t a myth. There are no assumed victory’s.  The other problem is other key moves haven’t paid off, making the SB entitlement rather difficult. 

Lots of good regular seasons for sure. 
 

But - “we’ve witnessed greatness”. Not sure about that. 

[Stroke 17]

12 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

For the downfall of this message board, I feel we hyper focused on the valley’s , and don’t appreciate the peaks. When things are good, reasons not to get too excited are always vomited up like an hairball and thrown around. We are hyper obsessed with the journey, but we only catch the positive “did you see that!?” moments of other teams, so we think other teams don’t go through bad times, other QBs don’t make mistakes, other coaches don’t make poor decisions. 
 

Or at least, our problems are always worse, our coaches are worse, are players are worse. 
 

I still like our QB, GM, and (gasp) HC. We are in a small transition, but we have a strong foundation. 

 

[Dr.Sack]

The Bills play really well when they have an axe to grind. 

[Fleezoid]

I watched a good bit of the Lions Chargers game today. And I got to thinking, when folks were having fun with the biting kneecaps comment and Dan Campbell was making head-scratching decisions or his team was making end-of-game bloopers a few years ago, McDermott had the Bills rolling. Now look where we are. This is not an indictment on McDermott (not entirely), but now Campbell's got that team humming. I'm on the fence on McDermott. And it's simpy this.....while the Bills have cycled through coaches, mostly a while back, like me changing my britches (what's wrong with 2-3 years?), the Steelers have had 3 coaches over a bazillion years. Each one has won a Super Bowl (or multiple). There's no clear answer and I'm fatigued. Just keep the bar open!

 

[nedboy7]

50 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

When was the last time the Bills exceeded expectations?

Miami? The expectations are for them to steam roll every team.  

[Stroke 17]

I can agree with so much of this but it doesn't make me feel any better. Since wide right ,Hail Mary throw forward, loss to 2nd string Steelers for playoff spot, 13 seconds, Minnesota upchuck last year, Cinci at home in last yr playoff stomping, Jets, Jags, Pats this year it just never seems to change no matter the owner, the coaches or the players waiting and hoping for the best seems to turn out the worst.

 

In games just this year was there ever any doubt that what could go wrong would go wrong. Aaron Rodgers out on 4th play Zach Wilsons a game, Get back in game against Jags to watch it slip away, Worked hard to keep Giants in the game, freakin 3 times benched Mac Jones goes 75 yards in under 2 minutes to beat us, McD's game management (with a little help from refs) to help us lose to Bengals this year. Failin to put the Buccaneers away when we had them beat almost cost the Bills that game.

 

Confidence going forward? Convince me. We are what our record says we are ......or dare I say a little worse.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Stroke 17

[nedboy7]

27 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

For McDermott,  the first red flag was the Houston game. Then 3 more playoff exits , including the 13 sec debacle. Then when we practically lost to the Giants this year, it was the last straw. I've seen enough.  There won't be a "next level" for McDermott.  He continues to fire the people he hires.  Dorsey will undoubtedly be next.  Besides Josh & Diggs, this team desperately needs better coaching...smarter decisions & play calling.  I get the relentless love affair with McD.  He pulled us out of the bowels of the drought.  But even a great administrator can only turn an organization around to a point.  The offense this year is a mess. Josh has way too many people in his head.  And Sean had every opportunity for 6 years to build a monster offense.  But he chose to emphasize the D.  The same D that's failed us in 4 straight playoff exits.  

You usually fire people you hired.  Hard to fire someone you didn’t hire. And Dorsey needs to be fired if he can’t fix his mess. I’d also add the offense has actually let the defense down this season imo and last years playoffs.  

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

At least that's become clear.  

 

Now the ball is in Pegula's court.  

 

There's definitely a pall hovering over our fanbase.  

 

The situation isn't the best marketing approach for selling pricey seats & PSLs for the new stadium. 

 

 

Pegula is making money. Lots of it. And if only winning a SB sells seats we would be watching empty stadiums.  

[DrBob806]

50 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This will trigger lots of fans, but I think part of it is Bills fans got entitled. 

 

We are coming off a 10, 13, 11, and 13 win season. We witnessed greatness, flat out dominance at times over that run. We spanked big names, in prime time, in their houses on many occasions. 
 

Bills were everywhere, Josh’s face is on everything, and we witnessed greatness from the QB position to a level we have never seen.

 

We spent the last 20 years watching Brady, where QB greatness = rings. I think it has become expected. I think the players fell into the same trap. 
 

Problem is, any given Sunday isn’t a myth. There are no assumed victory’s.  The other problem is other key moves haven’t paid off, making the SB entitlement rather difficult. 

Yes & yes.

 

"entitled" may be a tad strong, as fans are fanatical lol. 

 

The so-called "natural progression" of paying your dues while "climbing the ladder" in the playoffs has kind of been broken by our Bills. Lots of teams had crushing playoff losses but bounced back and got it done. I think last season, we "expected" to go to the SB after the Hamlin incident & the NFL handing us a dome home game in Detroit. It crashed & burned, and many of us are still bitter.

 

8 games to go, expectations are low. Maybe that's a good thing.

[Virgil]

Careful or stroke number 18 will be upon you soon enough 

[BuffaloRebound]

McDermott was hired to make the playoffs and end the 17 year drought.  He’s accomplished that and we’ve been a legit  contender since 2020.  Like it or not the Bills aren’t an organization that demands championships.  Only way McDermott isn’t back next year is if Josh goes to Pegula  and demands a change.  

[Bills!Win!]

The bills are the Manning and Dungy colts. It took Manning 10 years to win a superbowl and he is a top 5 QB of all time. Dungy was a good coach and not a great coach (McDermott). 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Bills!Win!

[PBF81]

57 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

You usually fire people you hired.  Hard to fire someone you didn’t hire. And Dorsey needs to be fired if he can’t fix his mess. I’d also add the offense has actually let the defense down this season imo and last years playoffs.  

Pegula is making money. Lots of it. And if only winning a SB sells seats we would be watching empty stadiums.  

 

So you don't think he cares one way or the other whether the team wins?  

 

 

[nedboy7]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

So you don't think he cares one way or the other whether the team wins?  

 

 

The team is winning. Since McD got here business is doing great.  He might think we are underachieving this year which we are.  You think GMs meltdown each year if they don’t win the SB like the fans do?  

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Lots of good regular seasons for sure. 
 

But - “we’ve witnessed greatness”. Not sure about that. 

We have though. Perfect game against the pats. That game against KC was pretty amazing too. If not for 13 secs we’d be talking differently on how great that game was. Josh actually has a lot of impressive games under his belt and a ton more wow holy ***** can’t believe that happened throws. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[nedboy7]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

McDermott was hired to make the playoffs and end the 17 year drought.  He’s accomplished that and we’ve been a legit  contender since 2020.  Like it or not the Bills aren’t an organization that demands championships.  Only way McDermott isn’t back next year is if Josh goes to Pegula  and demands a change.  

This!  I suspect Josh demands a new OC before he tried to get McD fired. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

You usually fire people you hired.  Hard to fire someone you didn’t hire. And Dorsey needs to be fired if he can’t fix his mess. I’d also add the offense has actually let the defense down this season imo and last years playoffs.  

Pegula is making money. Lots of it. And if only winning a SB sells seats we would be watching empty stadiums.  

I have an idea ned....why doesn't he hire better people...usually if you have to keep firing people you hired, that will eventually get you replaced by your superior....and obviously you must have checked out for the first quarter of the Cincy playoff game. It was 14-0 before Josh even touched the ball a second time.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I have an idea ned....why doesn't he hire better people...usually if you have to keep firing people you hired, that will eventually get you replaced by your superior....and obviously you must have checked out for the first quarter of the Cincy playoff game. It was 14-0 before Josh even touched the ball a second time.  

This summer is critical for McD, and he’s never hired a top end OC. Dennison and DaBoll had been mediocre historically at best, Dorsey an elite QB coach but next to no play calling experience. I think the rest of the staff is pretty good. 
 

He’s got an elite QB, he will have big time options if (when?) Dorsey is canned. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[JTown]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You can't coach players to be younger. Can't coach players to not get injured. Can't coach players to be faster. 

You can coach players to be prepared for the next opponent. 

As a coach, you can game plan your offensive and defensive strategies. 

As a coach you can adjust your strategies  during the game.

As a coach you can manage the game as it changes.

As a coach you can utilize your players strengths and mask their weaknesses. 

As a coach you shouldn't challenge stupid plays and call stupid time outs.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This summer is critical for McD, and he’s never hired a top end OC. Dennison and DaBoll had been mediocre historically at best, Dorsey an elite QB coach but next to no play calling experience. I think the rest of the staff is pretty good. 
 

He’s got an elite QB, he will have big time options if (when?) Dorsey is canned. 

Josh is obviously an elite qb but there's no way Dorsey was ever an elite qb coach. Josh made the mistake of requesting Dorsey to replace Daboll.  Daboll made Josh everything he is.  And Dorsey has unfortunately shown no identity or clever play calling on any level. Dorsey undoubtedly will be fired by Sean after the season. And he'll buy himself another year. We'll lose out on Ben Johnson and groundhog day will continue.....the wheels on the bus go round & round.....

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, JTown said:

You can coach players to be prepared for the next opponent. 

As a coach, you can game plan your offensive and defensive strategies. 

As a coach you can adjust your strategies  during the game.

As a coach you can manage the game as it changes.

As a coach you can utilize your players strengths and mask their weaknesses. 

As a coach you shouldn't challenge stupid plays and call stupid time outs.

All true as well. Point being no matter how good or bad coaching is it's never all on coaching or all on talent/execution. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Josh is obviously an elite qb but there's no way Dorsey was ever an elite qb coach. Josh made the mistake of requesting Dorsey to replace Daboll.  Daboll made Josh everything he is.  And Dorsey has unfortunately shown no identity or clever play calling on any level. Dorsey undoubtedly will be fired by Sean after the season. And he'll buy himself another year. We'll lose out on Ben Johnson and groundhog day will continue.....the wheels on the bus go round & round.....

Dorsey is definitely an elite QB coach, 3  elite level seasons with Cam Newton then 2 elite level seasons with Allen before moving to OC. Allen didn’t hit that elite level until Dorsey came to town. Thats likely the whole reason why Allen wanted him as his OC. 
 

Cam also didn’t get to that elite level until Dorsey came, battled injuries though. Cam’s downfall happened the year after all their coaches were fired. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[Punching Bag]

It is the Madden curse.

[PBF81]

39 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

The team is winning. Since McD got here business is doing great.  He might think we are underachieving this year which we are.  You think GMs meltdown each year if they don’t win the SB like the fans do?  

 

No, but at the same time it's clear that McD's got a ceiling.  

 

We'll see when STs/PSLs go on sale.  It's foolish to think that the current situation isn't going to impact that.  

 

 

[nedboy7]

35 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I have an idea ned....why doesn't he hire better people...usually if you have to keep firing people you hired, that will eventually get you replaced by your superior....and obviously you must have checked out for the first quarter of the Cincy playoff game. It was 14-0 before Josh even touched the ball a second time.  

 

Well I think you have a good point in Josh requesting it. And I agree at this point it seems we need someone better. 

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

No, but at the same time it's clear that McD's got a ceiling.  

 

We'll see when STs/PSLs go on sale.  It's foolish to think that the current situation isn't going to impact that.  

 

 

 

I get what you are saying but is the current situation this bad for corporate sales?  You think they care as much as us?  Also, you think they are gonna be a dumpster team next year? 

[BobbyC81]

2 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Other teams losing does not negate the fact that our offense has a systemic problem. 

 

And I’m not confident they know how to correct.

Yeah, how many postgames have we seen with the “We have to do better” and “We’ll figure it out” when nothing much has changed.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Lots of good regular seasons for sure. 
 

But - “we’ve witnessed greatness”. Not sure about that. 

Hoodie just called, he wants his 2021 playoffs exit game back…you know, the one where Josh drove the Bills to a TD on every single drive of the game? 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

We have thought. Perfect game against the pats. That game against KC was pretty amazing too. If not for 13 secs we’d be talking differently on how great that game was. Josh actually has a lot of impressive games under his belt and a ton more wow holy ***** can’t believe that happened throws. 

I agree with everything here.

 

The problem is, not once has it happened in a meaningful playoff scenario. 
 

That’s why I shy away from “witnessing greatness. 

10 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Hoodie just called, he wants his 2021 playoffs exit game back…you know, the one where Josh drove the Bills to a TD on every single drive of the game? 

Yep - great game. 
 

Remind me again, was this a AFCCG?

 

We define greatness differently. And that’s fine.