Are the Dolphins obviously better than the Bills?

[Airseven]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

I thought about CB but couldn’t pull the trigger given the Ramsey injury. Holland alone probably makes them better at safety as well. Hyde and Poyer have been fabulous Bills but low confidence in their health and ability going forward. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Airseven said:

I thought about CB but couldn’t pull the trigger given the Ramsey injury. Holland alone probably makes them better at safety as well. Hyde and Poyer have been fabulous Bills but low confidence in their health and ability going forward. 

 

Holland's never even made a Pro Bowl.  And who is their other safety?

[Manther]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:22 PM, GoBills808 said:

No, they are stronger in a couple areas but overall the QB difference is too overwhelming 

The QB isn't close.  Also, IF Tua can't play the Dolphins are in a bad spot at QB.

 

WR they are better at maybe WR1 and are better at WR2.  Yes, I like our depth after that better than the Dolphins.

 

Some areas on D the Dolphins are better or arguably better.  

 

Landslide, no way.  JA17 breaks any ties.

 

And, we are the Division leaders until proven otherwise.

 

The Dolphins are good though.  They could win the division.  If they do or they don't they are still legit Super Bowl contenders. 

On 8/23/2023 at 2:31 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think the Dolphins may have better top of the roster talent. However they appear to lack depth at a lot of positions.

 

On the other hand, the Bills may lack that true top end talent outside the obvious guys, however seem to be much deeper in depth to me. 

 

Over the course of a season, injuries happen. Guys miss time. I'll take Buffalo's top 53 over Miami's for a 17 game seasons. I think we have a much better shot at sustaining wins while key players are out (see last year).

This is VERY true.  Beane has built a very deep team top to bottom.  We had a lot of injuries last year like never before in this regime.  We should be healthier this year and are deeper too!  Go Bills!

[Manther]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:44 PM, Gregg said:

Looking back at the games last year. The Bills deserved to win in Miami. They went up and down the field all day but just couldn't finish drives. Miami deserved to win in Buffalo as I thought they had the better of the play most of the night. The playoff game looked like it was going to be a Bills blowout until the Bills got sloppy and turned the ball over. Credit the Dolphins for coming back and making it a game with a scrub at QB. I expect the games will be close again this year. I am more worried about the Jets then I am the Fins.

Disagree on the Jets being a bigger worry than the Dolphins.  Jets D is very good.  Aaron Rodgers, the Oline and probably overall comradery issues have me less concerned.

 

Some thoughts on the AFC East...

 

- can Dorsey be an effective OC

- will the Bills D be better with McD coaching it

- can Tua stay healthy

- can Aaron Rodgers make a smooth transition to the Jets

 

If all of those things happen or do not happen, the Bills are still the favourite and need to be beaten by the rest to prove they aren't the team to beat

[Ya Digg?]

36 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

Coaching? Coaching?? So a 1/2 year wonder (can’t even call him a 1 year wonder, people had his offense figured out by the end of the year), a good defensive coordinator, and an offensive coordinator I’m willing to bet very few if any (including yourself) can even name without looking him up

[Manther]

8 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Even though this is just a typical fun get the homer juices flowing thread, I find it interesting how many so easily and completely believe Josh >>> Tua.

 

Let's just say Tua had zero previous head trauma, was right handed, 5 inches taller, could throw the ball more than 20 yards and was an excellent QB, he still would not be as good as Josh Allen.  

 

PS.  Haha, did Tua practice falling better in the offseason?  His Left Tackle won't play all the games.  The Tua practicing falling better comments always make me laugh, but, they are sort of true.

 

PPS.  I hope Tua has a mediocre season and the Dolphins pay him a huge contract.

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

I would not argue with these 3 and arguably add WR due to the Dolphins top 2, but, like our depth better.  So, WR is a coin flip.

 

Coaching will be seen this year.  I hope the Bills coaching excels.

[folz]

I'm a little late to the party, but I was curious to take a look at this for myself (trying to be as unbiased as a Bills Homer can be).

 

Quaterbacks: They are deeper at QB, but even with that, Josh is still a far superior QB to Tua, even when Tua is healthy and at his best. BIG EDGE BILLS

Allen                  Tua

Allen/Bark         White/Thompson

 

Running backs: A lot of backs with a lot of carries on both teams. I'm hoping Cook will prove to be the best of all the backs and I think Harris stacks up with any of their guys too. But with an outside eye (not sure how good Cook will be/maybe Achane shows out), I'll give RBs a PUSH for now.

Cook                  Mostert

Harris                 Wilson, Jr.

Murray               Gaskin

Johnson            Ahmed

Evans                Achane

 

Wide Receivers: I think an unbiased view has to give this one to the Dolphins, though I do like our depth better. But, the 1-2 punch of Hill and Waddle does it. DECENT EDGE to the DOLPHINS

Diggs                 Hill

Davis                 Waddle

Harty                 Wilson, Jr.

Sherfield           Cracraft

Shakir                Berrios

Isabella              Chosen

Shorter              Sanders

 

Tight End: No words needed. MASSIVE EDGE BILLS

Knox                  Smythe

Kincaid              Kroft

Morris                Saubert

Gilliam (TE/FB)  Conner               

 

Offensive Line: I am not going to even pretend that I know enough about offensive line play to make a judgement here. But really, the lines are pretty similar, each has a Pro-Bowler at LT, two young day 1/2 draft picks, one young unheralded guy, and veteran centers. I have heard a few times that the Phins line isn't great, whereas ours should at least be solid. But neither line is elite, so for the sake of argument I will give the O-lines a PUSH.

 

Overall Offense: The big edge that the Bills have with QB and TE far outweighs the smaller WR edge the Phins may have. Otherwise, talent-wise, pretty even. I think in good times, when Tua is healthy, their offense can be as potent as ours...but I don't think they can match our consistency of potency (mainly due to QB play).

 

Defense: Tough to quantify on a position by position basis because of the different styles of defense, so I'll break it up into front seven and back four. Both defenses have a lot of elite talent, Phins are stronger up front right now, we're more solid on the backend (as of now).

 

Front Seven (kind of in order of talent level): I do think our front seven could be as game-changing as theirs if we stay healthy and some players progress, but they have to prove it first...and we need to see if McD's defense and his use of LBs, etc. works.  SOLID EDGE to the PHINS for now.

Bills: Miller, Milano, Rosseau, Floyd, Oliver, Jones, Phillips, Basham, Epenesa, Lawson, Bernard, Williams, Settle

Phins: Wilkins, Chubb, Ogbah, Phillips, Sieler, Baker, Reed, Van Ginkle, Davis, Riley, Tindall

 

Back Four: Our first 4 guys are studs, with Ramsey out, Howard is their only stud...and our depth is waaaay more solid. SOLID EDGE to the BILLS.

Bills: Poyer, Hyde, Tre, Johnson, Dane, Benford, Elam, Rapp, Hamlin, Neal

Phins: Ramsey (out til Dec), Howard, Holland, Jones, Kohou, Needham, Smith, Elliot

 

Special Teams: Bass > Sanders; Martin = Bailey; in 2022 Bills ST ranked 5th, Miami 27th. Return-wise, is Braxton Berrios better than Harty or Isabella? No, about the same. EDGE BILLS.

 

 

Let's face it, if you take QB out of the discussion, talent-wise, these teams seem to be about as even as you can get, just with the talent maybe sprinkled in a few different areas from each other. I'd say each team has about 8-9 elite-level players (so, that is about even too). So, I have no issue with someone arguing that the Dolphins may be more talented on paper (sans QB)...but to say overall or "in a landslide" or by a large amount definitely seems like either hyperbole or wishful thinking. I still give the overall team talent edge slightly to the Bills (before weighing in QB), and then obviously, Josh tips the scales significantly.

 

But all this means is that this season is going to be a lot of fun, and one hell of a ride. We aren't going to win 'em all on a march to the Super Bowl...it's going to be a dog fight all the way...and I love it. That's how football is supposed to be...tough divisional battles preparing you for hard-nosed playoff games.

           

 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

 

Nope. Try again. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 hours ago, Airseven said:

OL, RB, LB.

 

LOL

maybe

OK, that one.

 

8 hours ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

 

clown shoes

hell no

ok

 

[Dibs]

The Dolphins are one of those teams who's players are regularly overrated(along with Cowboys & Chargers), while The Bills are typically a bit underrated.

 

The season will prove out one way or the other.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Dibs

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, folz said:

I'm a little late to the party, but I was curious to take a look at this for myself (trying to be as unbiased as a Bills Homer can be).

 

Quaterbacks: They are deeper at QB, but even with that, Josh is still a far superior QB to Tua, even when Tua is healthy and at his best. BIG EDGE BILLS

Allen                  Tua

Allen/Bark         White/Thompson

 

Running backs: A lot of backs with a lot of carries on both teams. I'm hoping Cook will prove to be the best of all the backs and I think Harris stacks up with any of their guys too. But with an outside eye (not sure how good Cook will be/maybe Achane shows out), I'll give RBs a PUSH for now.

Cook                  Mostert

Harris                 Wilson, Jr.

Murray               Gaskin

Johnson            Ahmed

Evans                Achane

 

Wide Receivers: I think an unbiased view has to give this one to the Dolphins, though I do like our depth better. But, the 1-2 punch of Hill and Waddle does it. DECENT EDGE to the DOLPHINS

Diggs                 Hill

Davis                 Waddle

Harty                 Wilson, Jr.

Sherfield           Cracraft

Shakir                Berrios

Isabella              Chosen

Shorter              Sanders

 

Tight End: No words needed. MASSIVE EDGE BILLS

Knox                  Smythe

Kincaid              Kroft

Morris                Saubert

Gilliam (TE/FB)  Conner               

 

Offensive Line: I am not going to even pretend that I know enough about offensive line play to make a judgement here. But really, the lines are pretty similar, each has a Pro-Bowler at LT, two young day 1/2 draft picks, one young unheralded guy, and veteran centers. I have heard a few times that the Phins line isn't great, whereas ours should at least be solid. But neither line is elite, so for the sake of argument I will give the O-lines a PUSH.

 

Overall Offense: The big edge that the Bills have with QB and TE far outweighs the smaller WR edge the Phins may have. Otherwise, talent-wise, pretty even. I think in good times, when Tua is healthy, their offense can be as potent as ours...but I don't think they can match our consistency of potency (mainly due to QB play).

 

Defense: Tough to quantify on a position by position basis because of the different styles of defense, so I'll break it up into front seven and back four. Both defenses have a lot of elite talent, Phins are stronger up front right now, we're more solid on the backend (as of now).

 

Front Seven (kind of in order of talent level): I do think our front seven could be as game-changing as theirs if we stay healthy and some players progress, but they have to prove it first...and we need to see if McD's defense and his use of LBs, etc. works.  SOLID EDGE to the PHINS for now.

Bills: Miller, Milano, Rosseau, Floyd, Oliver, Jones, Phillips, Basham, Epenesa, Lawson, Bernard, Williams, Settle

Phins: Wilkins, Chubb, Ogbah, Phillips, Sieler, Baker, Reed, Van Ginkle, Davis, Riley, Tindall

 

Back Four: Our first 4 guys are studs, with Ramsey out, Howard is their only stud...and our depth is waaaay more solid. SOLID EDGE to the BILLS.

Bills: Poyer, Hyde, Tre, Johnson, Dane, Benford, Elam, Rapp, Hamlin, Neal

Phins: Ramsey (out til Dec), Howard, Holland, Jones, Kohou, Needham, Smith, Elliot

 

Special Teams: Bass > Sanders; Martin = Bailey; in 2022 Bills ST ranked 5th, Miami 27th. Return-wise, is Braxton Berrios better than Harty or Isabella? No, about the same. EDGE BILLS.

 

 

Let's face it, if you take QB out of the discussion, talent-wise, these teams seem to be about as even as you can get, just with the talent maybe sprinkled in a few different areas from each other. I'd say each team has about 8-9 elite-level players (so, that is about even too). So, I have no issue with someone arguing that the Dolphins may be more talented on paper (sans QB)...but to say overall or "in a landslide" or by a large amount definitely seems like either hyperbole or wishful thinking. I still give the overall team talent edge slightly to the Bills (before weighing in QB), and then obviously, Josh tips the scales significantly.

 

But all this means is that this season is going to be a lot of fun, and one hell of a ride. We aren't going to win 'em all on a march to the Super Bowl...it's going to be a dog fight all the way...and I love it. That's how football is supposed to be...tough divisional battles preparing you for hard-nosed playoff games.

           

 

Also I'd add culture, another massive edge to the Bills. We got a Ton of core players and coaches that have been together as we've become an AFC juggernaut and while we fell short , the standard and experience is there and I'm positive our core - Diggs Josh Hyde Po White etc etc are tired and know they're capable of a SB and its SB or bust. As well as coaches/Front office.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Dibs said:

The Dolphins are one of those teams who's players are regularly overrated(along with Cowboys & Chargers), while The Bills are typically a bit underrated.

 

The season will prove out one way or the other.

Who overrates the Fins? They rarely seem like they even get talked about. 
 

but this was one of the all time worst rosters in the nfl. They have done a great job of remaking their team and they are extremely talented. I do think playing in Miami makes you soft and I can’t see them ever winning a playoff game in the cold. But you have to be the biggest homer on earth to not see they are very close to us. 
 

but Allen gives us the major edge. Honestly, Allen on the Fins would be absolutely terrifying.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who overrates the Fins? They rarely seem like they even get talked about. 
 

but this was one of the all time worst rosters in the nfl. They have done a great job of remaking their team and they are extremely talented. I do think playing in Miami makes you soft and I can’t see them ever winning a playoff game in the cold. But you have to be the biggest homer on earth to not see they are very close to us. 
 

but Allen gives us the major edge. Honestly, Allen on the Fins would be absolutely terrifying.

The dolphins have been a dark horse pick for division winner since the Flores days and the analysts wouldn’t shut up about them this year cuz they beat the banged up ravens and bills in back to back weeks lol

 

 they blew the final move of their rebuild with the Bradley chubb trade imo…they must’ve thought they were a pass rusher away from Super Bowl contender at the time.  if they used that first on an offensive lineman they could be really scary right now.  Chubb didn’t do much of anything for them and he was a huge overpay. They also lost a first for tampering with Brady/Payton which really hurt after trading a ton of assets for tyreek hill and spent a first on igbinoghene in 2020 who’s a bust. 
 

everybody applauds the tyreek trade but they’ve blown 3 other firsts in recent history and their window is pretty much shot once tyreek starts to decline. 

Currently they are a terron armstead injury away from being an absolute dumpster fire on the offensive line(which is a common occurrence)…eichenberg and Austin Jackson are both awful and they don’t have any depth past Isaiah Wynn.  They rolled the dice building their offensive line around often injured terron armstead and it burned them in his first year.  Things don’t look much more optimistic this year either with him going into the season hurt. 
 

they were only one of the worst rosters in the league because they traded a bunch of players for future picks and I don’t think they used those future picks entirely well.  The jets are a much scarier team imo…I’d be surprised if the dolphins don’t finish third or fourth in the division 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SCBills]

My feelings heading into Week One..

 

Bills, Jets and Dolphins rosters around the QB are all pretty similar.  All very talented with different strengths, weaknesses and question marks. 
 

Bills have the elite QB, while Rodgers is in the tier below.  Tua is hoping to climb into that Rodgers/Herbert/Lamar/Hurts tier if he can stay healthy. 
 

Things I need to see to believe..

 

Jets:

 

Is their defense truly as dominant as it looked last year?

 

How does Rodgers look with some nice weapons but a mediocre at best OL?

 

Dolphins:

 

Can Tua stay healthy, can the OL protect him and can he avoid being exposed as more of a scheme QB?

 

How does the Defense look without Ramsey and under Fangio in his first year?

 

Bills:

 

Can the OL make a jump and protect Allen?  Last regular season game and preseason game against strong DL’s leaves me in wait and see mode against the Jets. 
 

Can the Defense, which is very talented on paper, get after good QB’s without Von?  Maybe he plays Week 1, but if he doesn’t, or if he’s on a limited snap count, I need to see the DL give play warranting it’s investment against good QB play. 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

My feelings heading into Week One..

 

Bills, Jets and Dolphins rosters around the QB are all pretty similar.  All very talented with different strengths, weaknesses and question marks. 
 

Bills have the elite QB, while Rodgers is in the tier below.  Tua is hoping to climb into that Rodgers/Herbert/Lamar/Hurts tier if he can stay healthy. 
 

Things I need to see to believe..

 

Jets:

 

Is their defense truly as dominant as it looked last year?

 

How does Rodgers look with some nice weapons but a mediocre at best OL?

 

Dolphins:

 

Can Tua stay healthy, can the OL protect him and can he avoid being exposed as more of a scheme QB?

 

How does the Defense look without Ramsey and under Fangio in his first year?

 

Bills:

 

Can the OL make a jump and protect Allen?  Last regular season game and preseason game against strong DL’s leaves me in wait and see mode against the Jets. 
 

Can the Defense, which is very talented on paper, get after good QB’s without Von?  Maybe he plays Week 1, but if he doesn’t, or if he’s on a limited snap count, I need to see the DL give play warranting it’s investment against good QB play. 

 

 

Tua got exposed as a scheme qb last year from what I saw…doesn’t mean the scheme can’t be effective against certain opponents though and if our dline can’t step up without von it could be us 😂
 

We talked about how their stretch vs the chargers,49ers, bills, and packers would be telling and they fell on their face going 0-4.  People seem to explain away that whole packers second half to a concussion but the packers halftime adjustments baited tua into a lot of those bad decisions…didn’t really seem like a guy that was out of it just winging the football around to me.  I might buy that it was all about the concussion a little more if the chargers defense didn’t give them fits a couple weeks prior.
 

They had a good game against us because our dline was a mess post von injury.  seems like tua gets tunnel vision when he gets moved in the pocket and can’t keep his eyes downfield or set his feet to throw.  Take away his first read in the middle of the field and force him to use the sidelines and he struggles.  If he has to shift at all in the pocket he struggles  

Edited August 28, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Scott7975]

If you all pretend to believe this then Filthy Beast couldn't troll us anymore, or at least he would have to pick a new troll.

[Matt_In_NH]

11 hours ago, Chaos said:

Coaching. CB. LB. 

I like McDaniel as a coaching prospect but he has done nothing.  They went 9-8 and lost a playoff game.  Mcdermott went 9-7 and lost a playoff game his first year with a much lesser roster.   McDermott is not perfect McDaniel is all hype until he does something.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Dolphins are about to add Jonathan Taylor!

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dolphins are about to add Jonathan Taylor!

are you serious lol

 

did they make a rule that every good player need to play in the AFCE this year or something

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

are you serious lol

 

did they make a rule that every good player need to play in the AFCE this year or something

It’s between them and another team.

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I like McDaniel as a coaching prospect but he has done nothing.  They went 9-8 and lost a playoff game.  Mcdermott went 9-7 and lost a playoff game his first year with a much lesser roster.   McDermott is not perfect McDaniel is all hype until he does something.

In head to head matchups the Dolphins last year beat the bills and gave them all the bills could handle in the playoffs with Skyler Thompson as QB.  If the McDermott is the better coach, you must think the dolphins roster is better than the bills at practically every no QB position. That is your prerogative.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

are you serious lol

 

did they make a rule that every good player need to play in the AFCE this year or something

On paper, this is the best this division has ever been top to bottom in my lifetime. And the worst team, has arguably the best coach ever and a top 5 defense. 
 

AFC North is also going to be a blood bath. Iron sharpens iron. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

In head to head matchups the Dolphins last year beat the bills and gave them all the bills could handle in the playoffs with Skyler Thompson as QB.  If the McDermott is the better coach, you must think the dolphins roster is better than the bills at practically every no QB position. That is your prerogative.

 

I agree to a point but if you look a little deeper than the final scores you will see the Bills had a very large advantage in some key indicators like yards gained, 3rd down efficieny.   The Bills dominated the games in Miami and the playoff game.   In the playoff game the Bills gains 423 yards vs 231 for the Dolphins.  In Miami in week three the Bills gained 497 yards to Miami's 212 (with Tua).  So while the scores were close, the actual play was not so much.  The Bills got sloppy in the playoff game and they even gave up a defensive TD.    We can easily flip the game in Miami by Gabe Davis holding onto the ball or even if they just had 3 more seconds to spike it and kick a FG.  And then McDaniel would be 0-3 vs McDermott...see that stuff goes both ways.  In particular for the playoff game, I am tired of hearing about how close it was....that does not work in the playoffs.   Just like it does not work to say "the bills almost won in KC in 2021"......nope you lost period.

 

All told in those three games the Dolphins gave the Bills all they could handle the yards were 1366 to 848.

 

I respect the team Miami has built and I think McDaniel looks like a good coach but lets not put the cart before the horse, he has a long way to go to win 3 straight division titles, 4 playoff games in 3 years.    Yeah we all know the Bills need to win the SB but people ***** all over McDermott without giving him the credit he deserves.   He built this team from straight garbage to a perennial contender.  One that the country wants to watch on primetime TV.  His leadership has changed the culture in that locker room.  So when I hear about how great McDaniel is when all he did is go 500 for one year.....lets see what the next three years brings before crowning him.

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

On paper, this is the best this division has ever been top to bottom in my lifetime. And the worst team, has arguably the best coach ever and a top 5 defense. 
 

AFC North is also going to be a blood bath. Iron sharpens iron. 

 

Some people think the North is better than the East.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[Bubba Gump]

Lol, they just placed Jeff Wilson on the PUP. He won't play to at least week 4. Ryan Mostert is not an every down back. Tua is gonna get killed without a competent RB. No wonder they wanted Taylor. Good luck Carp.

[Beck Water]

On 8/23/2023 at 1:19 PM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Before I go into this, I want to defend Simms and Florio for a minute. Unlike the talking heads on ESPN and FS1, they don't spout things just for shock or clicks. If you disagree, I encourage you to actually watch PFT every day instead of piling on because it's cool to hate Florio like it's cool to hate Nickelback.

 

With that out of the way, Simms and Florio said on PFT this morning that the Dolphins have a top-3 roster in the NFL and are the best team on paper in the AFC East, supplanting the Bills. Simms said a position-by-position analysis, outside of QB, would be a landslide in favor of the Dolphins.

 

Do you agree? Why or why not? I'll admit that I was slightly puzzled by the comments, because I think I disagree.

 

QB: Bills

 

OL: Bills, right?

 

RB: Tie? I actually like the Bills' room better.

 

WR: Dolphins? They have elite talent, but I think the Bills have better overall depth.

 

TE: Bills

 

DL: Dolphins, but it's close

 

LB: Dolphins

 

CB: Dolphins, probably, if Ramsey is behind included, but it's close again

 

S: Bills?

 

Specialists: Tie?

 

Is that a Dolphins landslide? I don't think so.

 

If anyone wants a Dolphins roster to go through position by position, this might help

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/who-made-the-dolphins-initial-2023-53-man-roster-a-breakdown-of-each-position/ar-AA1fXtkG

 

Football is a team game.  Ultimately what matters most isn't how good the individuals are, but how well they play as a team.