Ed Oliver big extension

[John from Riverside]

He wasn’t our best defensive tackle last year. What are we going to do now with Poona Ford and DaQuan Jones

[DCofNC]

3 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

With Mahomes....they won the Super Bowl.  But that's not your point.  Your point is who are the Bills without their best player.  And I ask you, who are the Chiefs without Mahomes?

The team around Maholmes is superior to the one around Allen and Maholmes is Winning SBs, the Bills aren’t getting to them.. what’s that say?

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

We have unfortunately lost the power rankings going on within your head while accidently stumbling to a 13-3 record on the field.

 

Well, now that we don't have a cakewalk season and not one of the easiest schedules in the league for the first time under McD, this season will certainly be a great case study for evaluating where we actually stand.  

 

If we're 13-3 again, then we can talk more.  

 

Otherwise, convenient that you failed to point out our troubles in getting past the Divisisonal round of the playoffs.  

 

I realize that's of lesser concern than the regular season record, just sayin'.  

 

 

 

 

[Simon]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Can’t help when my abs start hurting…😉

 

That's what you get for riding sober!

[Mat68]

Its 2023 we all realize the Guaranteed money is the real deal.  By resigning him now Buffalo will lower his cap number this year.  Paying a starting level player who is 25 less than top 10 money is a win.  Its as team friendly as it gets.  The cap has increased so these numbers hurt peoples brains but by the time his draft class signs his number will be 15th to 20th in annual rank.  

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, Herc11 said:

Right, cause the 15+ yrs before them, we were so successful!

There’s a legit QB here now, I’d like to see a better team and coach around him so we can actually win a game that matters.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He wasn’t our best defensive tackle last year. What are we going to do now with Poona Ford and DaQuan Jones

 

DaQuan really was great last year. That was a fantastic signing by Beane last offseason.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

I hear ya, but at some point it's settling.  

 

As I've said, everyone here supporting the move complains about every other aspect of our team, that those units fall short, but for some reason Beane's doing a great job.  It makes zero sense and does not logically align, thinking like that.  

 

 

I don't support the move. I just don't think most people are qualified to not support it if we want to be rational. It's a fan board, obviously people will have a lot of takes on this. I didn't think Edmunds or Oliver were all that great, but I do feel limited when bringing in the context of a role in this system that I don't fully understand. Then moving parts that I don't fully understand. As much as I understand, Oliver and Edmunds had very little help making them look good. Oliver is going to get doubled with our DE's and our 1 tech DT and offensive lineman are going to erase our MLB for the same reasons. That much seems logical but I can't really draw much more past that. 

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Must not have watched the Thanksgiving game this year. He literally won that game for us 

his only good game of the year. fyi

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He wasn’t our best defensive tackle last year. What are we going to do now with Poona Ford and DaQuan Jones

Those are 1t nose tackles.

[bearstobills]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, now that we don't have a cakewalk season and not one of the easiest schedules in the league for the first time under McD, this season will certainly be a great case study for evaluating where we actually stand.  

 

If we're 13-3 again, then we can talk more.  

 

Otherwise, convenient that you failed to point out our troubles in getting past the Divisisonal round of the playoffs.  

 

I realize that's of lesser concern than the regular season record, just sayin'.  

 

 

 

 

I'm a Chicago guy.  I grew up with Michael Jordan leading the Bulls.  It took him 7 years to win a title.  What you see as failure, I see as process (and not In McD speech).  The Bills are 4-3 in the playoffs over the past 3 years, and got past the divisional round in 1 of those years.  It sounds like you are planning to lose because it fits your narrative that we will ultimately fail.  My narrative is a championship is on the way.  I bet I'm right.

[Mr. WEO]

56 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You realize that being “the most recent” is very important factor in judging a players ranking in terms of value, right? The most recent QB to sign a huge deal does not make him the best QB. It just means he got next man up money while the cap keeps rising. I have no problems with the $$$ for Ed  as long as he stays healthy and plays to his ability. 

 

Well, I can only quote the most recent AAV rankings.  He's now moved up to 11.  

[1st&ten]

I'm surprised, I really thought they were going to trade Ed. Hopefully they know better that us.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I don't support the move. I just don't think most people are qualified to not support it if we want to be rational. It's a fan board, obviously people will have a lot of takes on this. I didn't think Edmunds or Oliver were all that great, but I do feel limited when bringing in the context of a role in this system that I don't fully understand. Then moving parts that I don't fully understand. As much as I understand, Oliver and Edmunds had very little help making them look good. Oliver is going to get doubled with our DE's and our 1 tech DT and offensive lineman are going to erase our MLB for the same reasons. That much seems logical but I can't really draw much more past that. 

 

Well, OK, tough to argue with any of that, but in the grand scheme, for $68M, $45M of which is guaranteed, there's a minimal level of performance that's expected.  

 

We, anyone, can argue whether he'll achieve that, but IMO we haven't seen it yet.  

 

IMO the money could have been used much better elsewhere.  But again, at the end of the day, and given the speculation that we don't have any DTs signed for next season, or so it's been said here although that's news to me, I would chalk it all up to poor planning no matter how it's sliced.  If some of Beane's other DL from the drafts had worked out, or even FAs, then perhaps he wouldn't have been what I consider to have been desperate to make this signing.  

 

Good GMs simply dont' put themselves in situations where they're forced to do things that aren't optimal.  Beane seems to do it on a semi-regular basis.  Why?  Again, look at his drafts.  

 

 

[NC-billsfan!]

Never sign a questionable player on their last year. Like Shaq and endless other examples, guys in the last year of their contract are motivated. If he plays to get paid, probably gonna be awesome. Got paid, time for cruise control. I hate it, but that’s what I think.  

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NC-billsfan! said:

Never sign a questionable player on their last year. Like Shaq and endless other examples, guys in the last year of their contract are motivated. If he plays to get paid, probably gonna be awesome. Got paid, time for cruise control. I hate it, but that’s what I think.  

To be clear I don’t think that at all of her is going to go on cruise control from this contract

 

I am more concerned on the trickle down effects of guys like DaQuan Jones, and poona Ford however

[Mat68]

For those curious Kyle Williams didnt make a pro bowl until year 5.  Oliver in his his first 4 years has 6 more sacks twice as many forced fumbles and only 2 less tackles for loss.  Salaries have ballooned Oliver has been solid not elite.  The contract matches and provides Buffalo flexibility.  Buffalo could restructure both Dawkins and White and pay Hopkins 15 mil without using void years.

[bearstobills]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

The team around Maholmes is superior to the one around Allen and Maholmes is Winning SBs, the Bills aren’t getting to them.. what’s that say?

Are you sure about superior?  Have you seen their WR room?  No Mahomes No Superbowl.  It's that simple.  

[SinceThe70s]

9 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're taking a beating in the national media.  

 

Doesn't seem as if a majority here support that amount for Oliver either.  

 

In either case, nothing I can do about it, he's signed, so everyone thinking it's great should be partying.  

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on the bolded? 

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I legitimately did not see this coming.  It feels like Beane blinked first knowing that he didn't have any DT's under contract for next year.  

 

Seems out of character

I dont think Anyone did.

 Saw a bit on PFF with D line Coach saying he needs to be more cerebral. Thinking before the paly instead of flowing with the play. Which i found very interesting and a coaches black smudge on him

 

so,  super surprised. and that money

 

Hoping Coaches know more than dumb ole me

 Go Bills

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

There’s a legit QB here now, I’d like to see a better team and coach around him so we can actually win a game that matters.

I just feel sorry for you. That’s really all I can say.

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

I'm a Chicago guy.  I grew up with Michael Jordan leading the Bulls.  It took him 7 years to win a title.  What you see as failure, I see as process (and not In McD speech).  The Bills are 4-3 in the playoffs over the past 3 years, and got past the divisional round in 1 of those years.  It sounds like you are planning to lose because it fits your narrative that we will ultimately fail.  My narrative is a championship is on the way.  I bet I'm right.

 

I'm not planning anything, that's the coach's and GM's job.  How can I plan to lose?  

 

And to insinuate that any single poster here wouldn't be ecstatic to win it all, I'm not even sure what to say.  If we were to win a Super Bowl everyone on this board would be somewhere high-fiving and screaming their brains out regardless of what some posters think of them.  

 

We have absolutely no control over anything, even if we attend every game home and away.  

 

We'll see, but so far we've underachieved the preseason narratives, largely due to poor coaching in the playoffs.  If that changes and if Oliver in this particular case becomes Quinnen Williams too, great.  Bet what you want, but we won't know 'til it happens.  

 

To me, the single biggest tragedy that could happen to this team is another 6+ years of Marvin Lewis type coaching and team performance while Allen's the QB.  Given our track record, if we don't win one with Allen I'd be the last one to suggest that Allen-like lightning strikes us twice.  

 

 

[NC-billsfan!]

11 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Its 2023 we all realize the Guaranteed money is the real deal.  By resigning him now Buffalo will lower his cap number this year.  Paying a starting level player who is 25 less than top 10 money is a win.  Its as team friendly as it gets.  The cap has increased so these numbers hurt peoples brains but by the time his draft class signs his number will be 15th to 20th in annual rank.  

And that’s where I would rank him Average at best. I’m meh on this, I’d of preferred he played lights out looking for a pay day.

[Aussie Joe]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're taking a beating in the national media.  

 

 

The national media fluffed them up all last off season and we saw how that turned out…

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Process said:

The only good thing about having Oliver take up 10 million in cap space this year, was that it was a contract year and he may finally live up to his draft status. And then we let him go be a disappointment with some other team and get a third round pick back in return.

 

So much for that. 

 

What are we doing?

 

The perks of a McDermott coached football team. 

They let Edmunds go though ??

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Those are 1t nose tackles.

Yeah, I’m not talking about position for say, I’m talking about tying money into the defensive line

 

Since we give this massive contract to Oliver, what does that mean for DaQuan Jones and Poona Ford

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

They let Edmunds go though ??

Edmonds got straight paid way more than the bills wanted to pay. If Edmonds would’ve taken middle of the pack, middle linebacker money he might still be here.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Yeah, I’m not talking about position for say, I’m talking about tying money into the defensive line

 

Since we give this massive contract to Oliver, what does that mean for DaQuan Jones and Poona Ford

I’m sure they could extend Jones again for another year… Ford hasn’t even played a down here yet..

[zevo]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

For those curious Kyle Williams didnt make a pro bowl until year 5.  Oliver in his his first 4 years has 6 more sacks twice as many forced fumbles and only 2 less tackles for loss.  Salaries have ballooned Oliver has been solid not elite.  The contract matches and provides Buffalo flexibility.  Buffalo could restructure both Dawkins and White and pay Hopkins 15 mil without using void years.

Wow. A smart/educated analysis. Rarity in these parts.

[NC-billsfan!]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

To be clear I don’t think that at all of her is going to go on cruise control from this contract

 

I am more concerned on the trickle down effects of guys like DaQuan Jones, and poona Ford however

What do you mean my trickle effect? I do think otherwise for this particular player. I agree that some players are just motivated to win. I think others want a pay day. I got Oliver in the pay day category . 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

For those curious Kyle Williams didnt make a pro bowl until year 5.  Oliver in his his first 4 years has 6 more sacks twice as many forced fumbles and only 2 less tackles for loss.  Salaries have ballooned Oliver has been solid not elite.  The contract matches and provides Buffalo flexibility.  Buffalo could restructure both Dawkins and White and pay Hopkins 15 mil without using void years.

 

Interesting, I would not have guessed that.

When also you factor in that Oliver is waaaaaay better than Meatball at holding the POA, that paints him in a pretty good light.

[John from Riverside]

I don’t care what the national media says about this they’re not the ones in the room

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I honestly dont know. 

 

I'm just saying, it's not like we haven't seen plenty of examples of front offices doing things the coach doesnt agree with.

 

Part of me wonders whether McD is actually in charge. But in that scenario, does Beane approve of this deal?

 

They've always seemed pretty aligned to me.

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Can you elaborate on the bolded? 

 

I have to apologize, I mispoke, I meant in the national forums and the like.  Even on other Bills' forums the move isn't exactly being viewed optimistically.  Even here from what I've read only a minority seem to think the signing was a great one.  Seems like the majority opinion here is of the "meh" variety, "wait and see."  

 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NC-billsfan! said:

What do you mean my trickle effect? I do think otherwise for this particular player. I agree that some players are just motivated to win. I think others want a pay day. I got Oliver in the pay day category . 

Yeah, I don’t know that yet. Oliver was injured quite a bit this last year.

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, NC-billsfan! said:

And that’s where I would rank him Average at best. I’m meh on this, I’d of preferred he played lights out looking for a pay day.

Then he plays too well and they cant pay him.  Like Edmunds.  

[NC-billsfan!]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

For those curious Kyle Williams didnt make a pro bowl until year 5.  Oliver in his his first 4 years has 6 more sacks twice as many forced fumbles and only 2 less tackles for loss.  Salaries have ballooned Oliver has been solid not elite.  The contract matches and provides Buffalo flexibility.  Buffalo could restructure both Dawkins and White and pay Hopkins 15 mil without using void years.

You bring up great points. But I wanted Oliver to play out his last year motivated and hungry. I just think he’s motivated by money. 

[julian]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're taking a beating in the national media.  

 

Doesn't seem as if a majority here support that amount for Oliver either.  

 

In either case, nothing I can do about it, he's signed, so everyone thinking it's great should be partying.  

 

 

It’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with the signing, I personally would have let him play out the option like Edmunds but the overreaction by some portraying this move as the new Albert Haynesworth debacle isn’t necessary to make their point.

 

Middle of the road money for a good young DT with hopes of upside.

[billsbackto81]

It's a gamble no doubt. Hoping he doesn't mail it in now a la Dareus.

 

As of now I believe he's the 4th highest paid DT from his draft (assuming Q. Williams signs for more, which he should). 

 

He has flashed at times and if he produces in what we believe will be a more attacking type D the 17 per he's making will look like a bargain.

[PBF81]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Then he plays too well and they cant pay him.  Like Edmunds.  

 

I don't think that he would have made that kind of jump.  

 

Do you really see some other team paying him more than we just did with only a marginal improvement in his play?  

 

What if he doesn't improve, or he regresses because of the slate of far better offenses we play?  There's that risk too.  

 

Just playing devil's advocate here.  

 

 

[SinceThe70s]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I could.  Not going to.  There are several other forums where the move, more than not, is being made fun of.  

 

I'm always one for looking outside the homer perspective.  

 

You know them, you don't need me to point them out.  They're relatively high-profile and easy to find if you don't.  I don't like the reactions here to some of my positions, why would I provide fodder for more of it.  

 

 

 

I'm always one for looking at any perspective - whether it's in agreement with my current line of thinking or not.

 

And for sure the national media is 'relatively high-profile' - if they're bashing the Bills I haven't seen it. So thanks for not backing up your assertion. Makes me think it was baseless.