Allen willing to change

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

This is very wrong. 

I won’t 2nd the notion that he’s slow at processing. I don’t think that’s true. But he does seem frantic deer in headlights mode in situations where being calm and cool would probably serve him and the team better.

[Doc]

I'm sure Britt will be glad to hear this...

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a little point that this is an article that re-hashes other articles without new information.

 

It's based on a 4-18 press conference with Allen

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2023/04/18/bills-qb-josh-allen-acknowledges-need-change-his-style-play/11688288002/

 

and Beane's 5-4 appearance on the Jim Rome show as quoted on Pro Football Talk

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/04/brandon-beane-glad-josh-allen-plans-to-be-a-little-bit-smarter-when-running-this-season/

 

What's my point, I suppose I don't really have one, but with a lot of news organizations laying off reporters and journalists who have worked hard in the industry for years, I guess I just want to say "be aware" if you're giving clicks to a site that might be parasiting off other folk's work.  I dont' think it's plagiarism, they do identify the original sources of the info.  But perhaps consider to give your clicks to the original journalists, or to local Buffalo journalists who actually attend the pressers etc.

 

Well, also it's got some very peculiar English usage, as though it's written by someone who isn't proficient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its just an article that popped up in my MSN feed so I thought it was a fun read and linked it.  I don't scour the internet or see every article on Bills stuff.  Also, just about every journalist writes stories that are based off others stories. 

 

I get your meaning but how am I supposed to determine who wrote what and took what from other articles?  You just linked me two articles after someone else already linked information about that as well.  If I never seen those two articles, which I haven't, then how am I supposed to know this?  Again, most journalists all write stories about the same information.

[Alphadawg7]

This isn’t that complicated.  Josh said this weeks ago, and he is very specifically talking about taking less hits by sliding more and getting out of bounds more on plays where he doesn’t need to fight for those extra few yards.  
 

Has nothing to do with running less.  And he said when he does need those yards or that score, he is still going to be him and do what it takes to get them.  But he recognizes there are many times where he doesn’t need to fight for a few extra yards and take unnecessary contact and it’s those moments he intends to be better about and get out of bounds or slide to avoid contact.  
 

And this is all Beane, McD and even his own teammates want.  For him to be him and play free, but just be smart and reduce the hits by eliminating the ones where it was unnecessary or inconsequential to take them.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Its just an article that popped up in my MSN feed so I thought it was a fun read and linked it.  I don't scour the internet or see every article on Bills stuff.  Also, just about every journalist writes stories that are based off others stories. 

 

I get your meaning but how am I supposed to determine who wrote what and took what from other articles?  You just linked me two articles after someone else already linked information about that as well.  If I never seen those two articles, which I haven't, then how am I supposed to know this?  Again, most journalists all write stories about the same information.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the defensive.  And it's becoming so common I don't know if it's something worthwhile asking folks to look out for

 

To me there are 3 clues:

1) news organization I've never heard of, "bolavip US"

2) non-idiomatic English

3) all the information provided references other sources

 

I don't like to see "a bird trying to fly on another bird's wings" so I'll look for the original source vs propagating what I see as a copycatter

 

This could entirely be a "me problem" though, so please don't feel you must defend yourself, it's not my intention to attack or criticize you - just to point out what I think is going on, that may hurt the journalists who actually dig up information and attend press conferences and break stories.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I won’t 2nd the notion that he’s slow at processing. I don’t think that’s true. But he does seem frantic deer in headlights mode in situations where being calm and cool would probably serve him and the team better.

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

[offyourocker]

I think the biggest improvement he can make is using shorts passes.  They did a fantastic job of that in 2021.  They did not last year.  He was constantly looking for the big plays.  Big plays come a lot easier when you consistently make the short ones

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

And if he doesn't, what are they going to do bench him?

 

This has been a "wish list" for Allen going on at least three years now. Believe it when I see it. 

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This isn’t that complicated.  Josh said this weeks ago, and he is very specifically talking about taking less hits by sliding more and getting out of bounds more on plays where he doesn’t need to fight for those extra few yards.  
 

Has nothing to do with running less.  And he said when he does need those yards or that score, he is still going to be him and do what it takes to get them.  But he recognizes there are many times where he doesn’t need to fight for a few extra yards and take unnecessary contact and it’s those moments he intends to be better about and get out of bounds or slide to avoid contact.  
 

And this is all Beane, McD and even his own teammates want.  For him to be him and play free, but just be smart and reduce the hits by eliminating the ones where it was unnecessary or inconsequential to take them.  

 

All of this was said by everyone before last season and none of it materialized. We will see how this season plays out. It's not easy to change how a player is wired. May take many seasons, may never happen. Knock on wood, Allen's running has not negatively affected him up to this point. But he is only a couple years away from where Cam Newton started to tail off I think. Newton was never the QB Allen was but still, I'd like to not see Allen decline at any amount for at least another 5 seasons.

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is the best oline he has played behind too (although whether that was talent or my theory that in empty stadiums with games already feeling soulless the NFL intentionally backed off calling offensive holding is debatable). 

 

 

 

That's right.  I do remember hearing something about less holding calls IIRC. 

 

I looked up total league wide penalties (didn't find just offensive holding):

 

2015 - 4,326

2016 - 4,164

2017 - 4,166

2018 - 4,205

2019 - 4,278

2020 - 3,499

2021 - 3,909

2022 - 3,726

 

The totals for all years include playoff games played as well. Factor in, one additional game being played starting in 2021 for all teams and you see that we have pretty much stayed at the 2020 level of officiating. Drastic difference between the last three seasons and the proceeding five. Allen and the Bills offense/o-line should have about the same benefits in 2021 and 2022 that they had in 2020. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

 

It means it isn't an elite trait of his. Elite Quarterbacks are not built out of 100% elite traits. Each one has 3 or 4 things that are elite that separate them. I don't think processing is among them for Josh. His elite traits are arm, athleticism, ability to create outside structure and competitive fire. It doesn't mean he is a slow processor relative to the cadre of NFL starting Quarterbacks. He clearly isn't. But I think protection matters to Josh more than weapons. Because every receiver who plays with him has a career year regardless.

26 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

That's right.  I do remember hearing something about less holding calls IIRC. 

 

I looked up total league wide penalties (didn't find just offensive holding):

 

2015 - 4,326

2016 - 4,164

2017 - 4,166

2018 - 4,205

2019 - 4,278

2020 - 3,499

2021 - 3,909

2022 - 3,726

 

The totals for all years include playoff games played as well. Factor in, one additional game being played starting in 2021 for all teams and you see that we have pretty much stayed at the 2020 level of officiating. Drastic difference between the last three seasons and the proceeding five. Allen and the Bills offense/o-line should have about the same benefits in 2021 and 2022 that they had in 2020. 

 

Interesting, thanks. They definitely backed off in 2020, my perception was it had gone back up... but that might be the Bills oline playing worse in 21 and 22.

Edited May 7, 2023 by GunnerBill

[PrimeTime101]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It means it isn't an elite trait of his. Elite Quarterbacks are not built out of 100% elite traits. Each one has 3 or 4 things that are elite that separate them. I don't think processing is among them for Josh. His elite traits are arm, athleticism, ability to create outside structure and competitive fire. It doesn't mean he is a slow processor relative to the cadre of NFL starting Quarterbacks. He clearly isn't. But I think protection matters to Josh more than weapons. Because every receiver who plays with him has a career year regardless.

your ignoring my question based on what you said to someone else. You say that he is not an elite processor and another dude said so he is slow at processing and you said "I didn't say he was slow"   Then I asked so "so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?"  and you completely ignored the question. IF he is not elite at processing then he is slower.. what else would that mean?

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

your ignoring my question based on what you said to someone else. You say that he is not an elite processor and another dude said so he is slow at processing and you said "I didn't say he was slow"   Then I asked so "so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?"  and you completely ignored the question. IF he is not elite at processing then he is slower.. what else would that mean?

 

I did not ignore the question, at all. It is about what your baseline is. Compared to the average NFL QB Josh is a good processor. Compared to the very best processors he is a tick below. There is a big gap between "elite" and "slow". I never said slow. Nor did I dispute "slower" because compared to a Joe Burrow, yea he is slower... but he isn't slow.

[BarleyNY]

21 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

That's not what Beane and McD are talking about.  They said they're fine with him running, but he needs to not take unnecessary hits like where he lowers his shoulder and delivers a hit when just running out of bounds or sliding is the better option.

 

Beane was on Green Light with Chris Long and specifically mentioned the Vikings game after he injured his elbow against the Jets.  Docs said he'd likely miss 1-3 weeks.  Josh said he could play that week and the Doc said he'd only clear him if Josh agreed to protect himself.  Beane said 2nd quarter he's running, already had the first down at midfield and instead of sliding, lowers his shoulder against an oncoming Safety.

 

Those are the unnecessary hits they're talking about.

 

I agree. It’s also on the coaching staff to rein him in. They should’ve pulled him from that Vikings game, at least long enough to get the message through. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree. It’s also on the coaching staff to rein him in. They should’ve pulled him from that Vikings game, at least long enough to get the message through. 

 

The thing is it is a bit incumbent on Josh. He has to know he is the freaking franchise. 

[BarleyNY]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is it is a bit incumbent on Josh. He has to know he is the freaking franchise. 

Absolutely. But in a situation like what was discussed - Allen agreed to protect himself as a condition of getting cleared to play, but didn’t do so. Watching a couple series from the sideline could’ve reinforced the importance of protecting himself, especially in those circumstances. 

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so when you say JA is not an elite processor then what does that mean to you?

How many players are truly elite at any one trait? Not everyone can be elite, or else it diminishes the value. For instance, Allen is an elite runner. No one will deny that. Burrow on the other hand isn’t an elite runner. However, one can still be better than average at a trait while not being elite. Burrow certainly appears to be an elite processor, and better than Allen. If Allen is elite, then what do you call Burrow who is better? See what I mean by diminishing the value? 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody said he was slow at processing fwiw.

Right on. 🍺

[Tanoros]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Absolutely. But in a situation like what was discussed - Allen agreed to protect himself as a condition of getting cleared to play, but didn’t do so. Watching a couple series from the sideline could’ve reinforced the importance of protecting himself, especially in those circumstances. 

I agree with you. If McDermott and Beane really want Allen to protect himself more, they need to be willing to make a point when/if the opportunity presents itself and that Vikings game as referenced in the article was that time. He does against what he agreed to as a condition of continued play. Allen’s long term health is more important than any one game or season. However, in the moment of a game/season I can understand how that can be a hard perspective to maintain, but the coach/GM need to hold that perspective (especially the GM). 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did not ignore the question, at all. It is about what your baseline is. Compared to the average NFL QB Josh is a good processor. Compared to the very best processors he is a tick below. There is a big gap between "elite" and "slow". I never said slow. Nor did I dispute "slower" because compared to a Joe Burrow, yea he is slower... but he isn't slow.

ok, and this is fair.. its all i asked lol. Some feel he is slow... and it drives me NUTS! that is why I wanted the bottom line from you.

 

Thank You!

[nucci]

22 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

3rd and 6

1st Quarter

Score 0-0

 

Allen drops back and there is immediate pressure.  Don’t run.  Don’t spin.  Don’t hurdle.

 

Just spike the ball at the feet of your running back who stayed in (and failed) to block.

 

Punt.

 

Allen starts doing that…then we can believe he is serious about starting to play this game at the level required for the long haul.

I would be pissed if he did this.

[Bills Bud]

Yes let's change our Top 3 QB in the NFL. The best QB we ever had, instead of giving him the proper weapon. Let's try to make him into Mahomes which his game type doesn't fit. We need WRs that can go down field

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, Bills Bud said:

Yes let's change our Top 3 QB in the NFL. The best QB we ever had, instead of giving him the proper weapon. Let's try to make him into Mahomes which his game type doesn't fit. We need WRs that can go down field

 

We do. But we need protection too. Josh is our biggest asset. The focus should be on maximising him.

[FireChans]

This topic title sounds like a message to his ex girlfriend. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

I would be pissed if he did this.

So would the guy who wrote that and everyone who gave it a time up

 

 

[klos63]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:45 AM, Big Turk said:

 

Makes sense. The only 2 times he has been hurt in his career have been getting hit in the pocket.

 

I think if you do an injury comparison, the vast majority of QBs get hurt on hits in the pocket.

 

Murray tore an ACL while running out of the pocket...Tannehill tore an ACL while running out of bounds, but most injuries are from in the pocket hits.

I'd be willing to bet that he's sustained injuries on runs as well, just played through them.

[B-Large]

This is like me looking to shoot in the low eighties/ seventies... sure I know I have to work on the short game to get there.... will I do it consistently, not yet!

 

 

[Fleezoid]

You do you, Josh....

 

[C.Biscuit97]

20 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Yes let's change our Top 3 QB in the NFL. The best QB we ever had, instead of giving him the proper weapon. Let's try to make him into Mahomes which his game type doesn't fit. We need WRs that can go down field

I agree with a lot of this. What makes Josh so great is he is going to fight on every play for every yard. It seems kinda wrong to change that.

 

however, no matter how big you are, those hits catch up. They happened with Cam and Big Ben. But there is nothing better than Allen jumping over a player or trying to run a guy over. 

[RyanC883]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:12 PM, Mister Defense said:

Ridiculous that Allen is put in the position of needing to say this.

 

Allen did not do what he did last year, put himself in harm's way all of the time, wing the ball down the field, and play "Hero Ball' because it was his first choice.

 

He did so because of the extremely one dimensional offense the Bills employed. He tried to overcome the nonsense Dorsey created.

 

They had an extremely poor short passing game, while Allen had proved to be superb at this in the previous years. Extremely lacking and poorly conceived.

 

The Bills ran the ball almost always as an afterthought, it seems, and  almost never established the run as an integral part of the game.  This despite clear signs that they were a dynamic, high level running team, (look at the yards per carry of both Motor and Cook), capable of running with the best teams in the league.

 

Allen is not Rodgers, thank God, or Wilson, thank all the powers that be, and, at least so far in his career, has never called out coaches publicly and likely in private either.  So he takes the blame as always.

 

 

This.  I’m sick of seeing Bean and McD say Allen needs to “play smarter”.  Yes, he should slide more, and he did that last year.  But more than that, as you said, was a combo of the awful play calling and subpar OL personnel and play.  

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We do. But we need protection too. Josh is our biggest asset. The focus should be on maximising him.

very happy we have Torrence on the OL now.  Should help Bates. 

[AuntieEm]

On 5/7/2023 at 1:51 PM, GoBills808 said:

So would the guy who wrote that and everyone who gave it a time up

 

 

But there likely be different causes the anger is focused on.  I'd be angry that the defender was on Allen in a mere few seconds whereas some fans would be angry Josh took the smart play ànd is on to the next play.  Not sure there are are many Bills fans who worry about 1st and 20 as there once were.  Josh converts those more often than any qb the Bills have ever had.  I'd rather Josh just end play then hurry up line up again before defender has a moment to catch their breaths.  I'd guess they could have a crazy success rate on plays that followed that scenario.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:13 PM, nucci said:

I would be pissed if he did this.

I believe it.

 

Ive been to games seeing fans raging over an Allen incomplete pass.

 

only to look up at there is 14 minutes to go in the 1st Quarter with the score 0-0.

 

😂

 

Sometimes that excitement/nerves causes folks to really lose it.

[Big Turk]

"and if I can change...and you can change...everybody can change!!"

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Big Turk

[90sBills]

On 5/8/2023 at 6:13 AM, B-Large said:

This is like me looking to shoot in the low eighties/ seventies... sure I know I have to work on the short game to get there.... will I do it consistently, not yet!

 

 

I know this feeling