Conner McGovern to Bills

[Dr. Who]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

So we got the right Josh and the wrong Connor?  He's gotta be better that Saffold....right?

That's a low bar . . . I think his floor is competent and the ceiling could turn out considerably better.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

His 2021 number was 69 so we'll see what we're getting.  And for those of you that are skeptical of all PFF, give me a better alternative.  I'll use it immediately. 

 

My comment was on his season and injury.  I should not have even posted something about PFF.  I am never going to base players on that system.

I will have to live with the NFL teams and their staff to make judgements.

 

My philosophy is to fill holes with mid-level FAs and use the draft to find long term players.  Chasing big name FAs (especially IOLs) is risky at best.

Their play is tough to measure due to the "teamwork" needed.  Cowboys OL was decimated with injuries last season.

 

Beane (I hope) uses some draft capital to add to the OL.

[GreggTX]

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You want to give Orlando brown 80million or something? 

Look at the OL in KC, Philly, Cincinnati. Look at the OL's the Patriots gave Brady. It matters. It helps a lot. People don't think it matters because OLinemen don't score TD's (except Doyle), but skill players don't score either if the guys up front don't do their job. I don't know what Orlando Brown will command after not living up to expectations in KC and it doesn't have to be him specifically, but we will need to spend to upgrade the OL. High caliber OL like getting paid too. I hope they aren't paying this guy starter money. If not, OK, but McGovern and Bates as starting G's doesn't inspire confidence. He's not the worst, but I believe we have to aim higher if we want to win a SB.

Why is it so wrong to want a guy like Wyatt Teller or Joe Thuney?

 

[Success]

I'm sure Beane will still address the line in the 1st few rounds of the draft - but this allows for a little more flexibility.  If Bijan Robinson or Jordan Addison is still there when we pick in the 1st, we can take whoever is there, and still get a guard or tackle (or one of those versatile guys we like) in the 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

3 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You want to give Orlando brown 80million or something? 

Look at the OL in KC, Philly, Cincinnati. Look at the OL's the Patriots gave Brady. It matters. It helps a lot. People don't think it matters because OLinemen don't score TD's (except Doyle), but skill players don't score either if the guys up front don't do their job. I don't know what Orlando Brown will command after not living up to expectations in KC and it doesn't have to be him specifically, but we will need to spend to upgrade the OL. High caliber OL like getting paid too. I hope they aren't paying this guy starter money. If not, OK, but McGovern and Bates as starting G's doesn't inspire confidence. He's not the worst, but I believe we have to aim higher if we want to win a SB.

Why is it so wrong to want a guy like Wyatt Teller or Joe Thuney?

 

 

Did our guards do their jobs last year?  Did we have problems with skill players scoring?

 

We made Mitch Morse one of the highest paid centers and Dion Dawkins a top paid LT.  We have to improve on the OL but you're acting like none of the starting 5 get paid.

 

You don't even know who McGovern is and you have somehow evaluated him.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

seems like a Staffold-plus pickup to me.  hope I'm wrong.   Like a solid starter, but I'd still draft one.  

A solid starter is a huge upgrade over Staffold.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, RG Murdock said:

According to WhoScored and PFF McGovern is a middling pass blocker (Ranked 17th) and a pretty bad run blocker (Rated 31st).. Nothing to get excited about. Meanwhile, Edmonds to the Bears for 4 years $95M.. $50M guaranteed..... I guess too expensive for the Bills?    

The comparison that matters is to Saffold.  And what Bean has done is replace a guard at the bottom of the PFF rankings with one in the middle of the rankings for pass pro.  That's a huge improvement and will be noticed on the field next season.

 

 

[skibum]

Seems like a lot of money for a guy who hasn't rrrrrreeeeeaaaallly proven himself a bona fide startet yet, but OK.

Edited March 13, 2023 by skibum

[GreggTX]

$23 million for 3 years! If we're spending that much, how are we not getting a better G? Well, they overpaid Star too. I guess we're not good at assessing OL and DL talent.

 

[JaCrispy]

13 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

$23 million for 3 years! If we're spending that much, how are we not getting a better G? Well, they overpaid Star too. I guess we're not good at assessing OL and DL talent.

 

You’re just figuring this out now?

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I believe it was highlighting his athletic ability.  At least that is how I took the comment.

Well, if he's highlighting athletic ability rather than versatility why did he put the word "VERSATILE" in all caps rather than "ATHLETIC"?

 

He quite literally highlighted his versatility in the tweet.

[Einstein]

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

We made Mitch Morse one of the highest paid centers and Dion Dawkins a top paid LT. 

 

I know that it’s hard to believe (time flies) but we did those things 5 offseasons ago.

 

The team has not put big resources into offensive line in half a decade…

 

Despite having one of the best QB’s in the league.
 

Its mind-boggling.

 

I did a review of the top 15-20 o-linemen available in free agency in another thread and this McGovern wasn’t even on the radar of any source I researched. His namesake in NY was, but not him.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I know that it’s hard to believe (time flies) but we did those things 5 offseasons ago.

 

The team has not put big resources into offensive line in half a decade…

 

Despite having one of the best QB’s in the league.
 

Its mind-boggling.

 

I did a review of the top 15-20 o-linemen available in free agency in another thread and this McGovern wasn’t even on the radar of any source I researched. His namesake in NY was, but not him.

Morse was signed an extension last year.  Dawkins signed his extension in 2020.

 

We invested a 3rd round pick in Brown which is where you generally want to get a good RT.  Brown hasn’t been but its not like we avoided the position.

 

Does it really matter if he wasn’t on any source of best FA?

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[ColoradoBills]

24 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

$23 million for 3 years! If we're spending that much, how are we not getting a better G? Well, they overpaid Star too. I guess we're not good at assessing OL and DL talent.

 

 

Ralph is cheap.

 

10 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Well, if he's highlighting athletic ability rather than versatility why did he put the word "VERSATILE" in all caps rather than "ATHLETIC"?

 

He quite literally highlighted his versatility in the tweet.

 

Beane is foolish signing VERSATILE players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I doing this right?

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Morse was signed an extension last year.  Dawkins signed his extension in 2020.

 

Yeah but you were talking about big deal signings. Not small extensions.  The bills have not committed significant resources in free agency towed their offensive line in five offseasons. It’s just brutal.

 

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Does it really matter if he wasn’t on any source of best FA?

 

 

Only when you’re talking about whether the bills have committed significant resources towards rebuilding the line - This is not a rebuild the line move. This is a stop-gap move.

 

I would love for them to go after someone like Ben Powers

[IndyMark]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Those that are calling for Brown to be replaced haven’t forgotten how terrible he was all of last season and realize that he was a big part of our problem on offense.  
 

sure, he could improve- I think he will improve, some. Possibly enough to be a quality starter.  But are you willing to risk the entire 2023 season on it?  Imo, that’s what you’re doing if you don’t bring in someone that can compete and possibly beat him out.  We need a solid Plan B.  

 

My last line of the post your replied to literally stated bring someone in to challenge him in camp.  The bigger issue is the implication we should move on from Brown, now, which is flat out goofy.  You actually are agreeing with me.

4 hours ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Wyatt Teller was an all conference guard in college.  
Brown played 8 man football, was a TE and got moved to OT in D2 and missed the entire covid season.  There is literally no comparison. 
There is no reason why we should t bring in legit competition for him.  He’s proven nothing and regressed if anything.  We gotta an all time QB, I’d rather not bet on  a project 

 

Which is exactly what my last line indicated in my post your responded to. You are actually agreeing with me.  He was injured and missed an entire off- and pre-season, of course he regressed.  Getting rid of him without seeing a full off- and pre-season is goofy.

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

That's a lot of cheddar for a KMart brand guard.

[gonzo1105]

45 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

$23 million for 3 years! If we're spending that much, how are we not getting a better G? Well, they overpaid Star too. I guess we're not good at assessing OL and DL talent.

 

7 million dollars for a Guard isn’t that much nowadays. He’d be the 19th highest paid guard before Powers contract he’s probably going to be the 21-23rd highest paid guard in the nfl 

Edited March 14, 2023 by gonzo1105

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's a lot of cheddar for a KMart brand guard.

Ahhhh someone never watched him play. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Ahhhh someone never watched him play. 

If you watched him play and didn't come away with the knowledge that he's an average pass blocker and an awful run blocker, you didn't learn anything useful

by watching him.

[3rdand12]

Upgrade from Saffold who can start.
Young enough to have upside.
Its hardly a bad move.
 

But it's also not a definitive move at Guard . Lets see what Kromer can do with him/ Maybe he turns out to be Morse' replacement in a year or two ? We are going to need that solved as well

 Go Bills

[MAJBobby]

15 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If you watched him play and didn't come away with the knowledge that he's an average pass blocker and an awful run blocker, you didn't learn anything useful

by watching him.

Top end passblocker one of the top 15 to do it. 
 

good enough as a run blocker and a massive upgrade to Saffold in both. 

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah but you were talking about big deal signings. Not small extensions.  The bills have not committed significant resources in free agency towed their offensive line in five offseasons. It’s just brutal.

 

 

Only when you’re talking about whether the bills have committed significant resources towards rebuilding the line - This is not a rebuild the line move. This is a stop-gap move.

 

I would love for them to go after someone like Ben Powers

Dawkins is not a small extension and that was 3 years ago.

 

How is this a stop gap when he’s 25?  

 

Did you want Ben Powers just because of his PFF grade?  From what I understand, he’s not very good.  He benefited by Lamar being an incredible scrambler and runner.

21 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If you watched him play and didn't come away with the knowledge that he's an average pass blocker and an awful run blocker, you didn't learn anything useful

by watching him.

 Of his 909 snaps he had last season, how many did you watch?

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Top end passblocker one of the top 15 to do it. 
 

good enough as a run blocker and a massive upgrade to Saffold in both. 

He never watched him play.  He just never heard of him.

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Of his 909 snaps he had last season, how many did you watch?

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? How he performed is known.

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Top end passblocker one of the top 15 to do it. 
 

good enough as a run blocker and a massive upgrade to Saffold in both. 

top 15 is "top-end"? I'd call that average.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? 

 

 

Ummm, yep.  🤷‍♂️

 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Ummm, yep.  🤷‍♂️

 

Really? It's nice to know you value my offensive Guard assessment skills that highly.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? How he performed is known.

Oh is it really known?  A guy you never watched play or heard of is well known to you on his play?  

[3rdand12]

24 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? How he performed is known.

top 15 is "top-end"? I'd call that average.

I might be wrong but there are 64 starters at guard and plenty of guys that rotate in over a season for whatever reason.

 My math aint so good , but top 15 is actually "top end" of the spectrum.
And honestly , i always try to stay positive when change occurs. And I am quite sure he is an improvement of Roger ( I was gassed) Safffold  LOL 

Edited March 14, 2023 by 3rdand12

[Augie]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Really? It's nice to know you value my offensive Guard assessment skills that highly.

 

There just might be a chance that you’d have your own impression, rather than just relying on questionable internet content from strangers. There are a lot of opinions out there. 

 

There are a handful of people here whose opinions I really value. They don’t just read internet stuff. They watch football to form opinions. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Oh is it really known?  A guy you never watched play or heard of is well known to you on his play?  

Yup. Every snap he has ever played has been watched and evaluated by experts  much more highly skilled and trained than any of us. Watching him play does nothing to provide a useful evaluation of his abilities, unless you're claiming that you're a better talent evaluator.

I actually watched a good handful of cowboys games last year, but never even knew the guy existed until an hour ago. I still really dislike the move and probably have a more valid reason for it than watching him play.

[Chaos]

31 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Upgrade from Saffold who can start.
Young enough to have upside.
Its hardly a bad move.
 

But it's also not a definitive move at Guard . Lets see what Kromer can do with him/ Maybe he turns out to be Morse' replacement in a year or two ? We are going to need that solved as well

 Go Bills

We save $6 mm on the cap by cutting Morse.  We all know that if we roll with Morse as our starter next season, a good chunk of his 11mm cap hit will be on the sidelines for a number of games. And if he is on the field, it is likely his play will deteriorate further.  We really should be looking at better options at center. 

[MAJBobby]

16 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? How he performed is known.

top 15 is "top-end"? I'd call that average.

I would argue top 10 pass blocking OG. 
 

64 start. So YES top 15 does not = AVG

16 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

if I watched 909, would it be more relevant than if I watched 0? How he performed is known.

top 15 is "top-end"? I'd call that average.

MATH. Top 15 out of 64. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by MAJBobby

[Yantha]

Upgrade to Saffold but still should be a backup on the better teams…

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I actually watched a good handful of cowboys games last year, but never even knew the guy existed until an hour ago. I still really dislike the move and probably have a more valid reason for it than watching him play.

 

This is the kind of solid reasoning that brings me back here. 😋

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

We save $6 mm on the cap by cutting Morse.  We all know that if we roll with Morse as our starter next season, a good chunk of his 11mm cap hit will be on the sidelines for a number of games. And if he is on the field, it is likely his play will deteriorate further.  We really should be looking at better options at center. 

He’s played in 60/65 games in his 4 years here… that equates to a good chunk on the sidelines this year? 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Yantha said:

Upgrade to Saffold but still should be a backup on the better teams…

Based on? 

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Did you want Ben Powers just because of his PFF grade?  From what I understand, he’s not very good.  

 
I researched him extensively and I don’t know how anyone can say he’s not very good. The Ravens have an award for best linemen of the game. Powers won it 8 times last season. 

 

He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team.

 

Speaking of PFF, they show his blocking got BETTER after Lamar got injured and went out.

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

MATH. Top 15 out of 64. 

No. We’re breaking down by strict LG and RG… mix in conference too… maybe even division. 
 

That makes him 15th out of 4 LG in the NFC East… math! 

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

He’s also pretty NASTY and I like that. In college he told a reporter “I love taking a grown mans dream and just crushing it”. We need braulers like that on our team.

Who was the guy that said he wanted to make defenders make business decisions when they go to tackle him? 
 

We should go get that guy too… 

[Chaos]

Mcgovern is a huge improvment on Saffold on true passing sets

  

[Warcodered]