Stadium Renderings Part 2

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Tax payers pay for schools.  They pay for the building, teachers salaries, janitor salaries, lab equipment, athletics etc…

 

Does that mean the tax payers should get to have a say in how the staff is structured, the curriculum taught and who runs any department?

 

That would really suck if you’re interviewing for a Football coaching position and your interview panel is 300,000 people.  

 

They do. Through the school board, which is mandated to have public meetings and take comments from the public.

[JoPoy88]

Billionaires didn’t become billionaires catching feelings, they did it counting numbers.

 

honestly I’ve always been on the side of idgaf if the new place is covered or not covered, but a lot of things in this thread have made me question that from a value proposition - I will definitely be taking a long look at what these prices look like for us STH. 
 

of course I’ll also wait for the full fly-through of the stadium before I go apoplectic.

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

No, it’s the worst way to sum it all up and that’s not surprising because Einstein always does that. You have direct control over what car you buy and what options you want. That’s a 1 to 1 transaction. This is representative, not direct democracy. You (even a collective amount of angry “yous” that can’t get your dome) have no say in the planning or design of a public building built on public lands, beyond your power to vote in or out the people that eventually make those decisions. 
 

you can complain, sure. But if you’re really that bent about it, complain to the people that matter. Or vote with your wallet and cancel your seats. And not just for the new stadium, cancel them immediately.

Like I said before. Someone get me Pegulas phone number. I’ll be happy to send over my grievances. 

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

you can complain, sure. But if you’re really that bent about it, complain to the people that matter.

 

Oh, trust me! I do.

 

Congressman knows my name.

[mrags]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

Billionaires didn’t become billionaires catching feelings, they did it counting numbers.

 

honestly I’ve always been on the side of idgaf if the new place is covered or not covered, but a lot of things in this thread have made me question that from a value proposition - I will definitely be taking a long look at what these prices look like for us STH. 
 

of course I’ll also wait for the full fly-through of the stadium before I go apoplectic.

This is where I’m at. I understand, always did, and always will, that I have no say in any of it. 
 

but with the amenities they provide will be a huge deciding factor if I continue my season tickets. For the prices that I expect them to demand from fans. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

They do. Through the school board, which is mandated to have public meetings and take comments from the public.

 

Do you realize how far you are taking this? You’re upset,fine. How many school board meetings have you attended to weigh in on improvements and lab equipment?  Or is just easier to complain about a stadium on a message board? 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

They do. Through the school board, which is mandated to have public meetings and take comments from the public.

Take comments from the public means they make decisions?  You’re not being serious.  Public schools and the curriculum for it is run by the state. 

 

Were you asked to be a part of the selection process of any new Coach in the school system you are districted in.  You’re paying his salary as a tax payer….

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

Do you realize how far you are taking this? You’re upset,fine. How many school board meetings have you attended to weigh in on improvements and lab equipment?  Or is just easier to complain about a stadium on a message board? 

The Post Office by me didn’t trim their crete myrtles the way I like them.  I paid for it, I want them cut higher.

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

Like I said before. Someone get me Pegulas phone number. I’ll be happy to send over my grievances. 

hey to be honest, seriously, if I had that number I’d give it to you and insist on listening in. I would also like to know why a enclosed stadium wasn’t possible here, beyond the “cost feasibility” reason they cited. Don’t care about a dome either way, but I do agree with you we deserve a better answer than that.

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Take comments from the public means they make decisions?  You’re not being serious.  Public schools and the curriculum for it is run by the state. 

 

Were you asked to be a part of the selection process of any new Coach in the school system you are districted in.  You’re paying his salary as a tax payer….

 

he is always apparently serious, unfortunately.

[JoPoy88]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Oh, trust me! I do.

 

Congressman knows my name.

my congressman knows my name too. That’s why they’re politicians, they remember the people who gave (or might give) them money. You’re not special, no matter how hard you try to convince us.

[mrags]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

hey to be honest, seriously, if I had that number I’d give it to you and insist on listening in. I would also like to know why an enclosed stadium wasn’t possible here, beyond the “cost feasibility” reason they cited. Don’t care about a dome either way, but I do agree with you we deserve a better answer than that.

It just feels like it wasn’t ever even the consideration. And covering all or the majority of fans could have been done just like Tottenheim for just a little more. 
 

but maybe that answers all that, like I said, they aren’t targeting 20 somethings spending their weekly paychecks in tickets. They are targeting families, business, corporate dollars, the few that are interested in spending ridiculous funds to go to games. They’ve created enough climate controlled seats in the new stadium to please that crowd while still providing enough seats for the natty ice chuggers to go also. The majority of the 500 level will be cheap seats. Just about all other seats are going to be rather expensive. This way they can say they still kept the stadium for Bills fans while lining their pockets with big dollars from the expensive seats. I’d say 50/50 at best as far as cheap seats vs other. 

[Doc Brown]

15 minutes ago, mrags said:

It just feels like it wasn’t ever even the consideration. And covering all or the majority of fans could have been done just like Tottenheim for just a little more. 
 

but maybe that answers all that, like I said, they aren’t targeting 20 somethings spending their weekly paychecks in tickets. They are targeting families, business, corporate dollars, the few that are interested in spending ridiculous funds to go to games. They’ve created enough climate controlled seats in the new stadium to please that crowd while still providing enough seats for the natty ice chuggers to go also. The majority of the 500 level will be cheap seats. Just about all other seats are going to be rather expensive. This way they can say they still kept the stadium for Bills fans while lining their pockets with big dollars from the expensive seats. I’d say 50/50 at best as far as cheap seats vs other. 

 

[Einstein]

44 minutes ago, Augie said:

 Or is just easier to complain about a stadium on a message board? 

 

Im just sharing my thoughts on the new stadium and pointing out that it is OUR stadium, not the Bills. The public should have a say, in my opinion.

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Im just sharing my thoughts on the new stadium and pointing out that it is OUR stadium, not the Bills. The public should have a say, in my opinion.

Agree with you 100% but the fact is we don’t, won’t, and never will. 

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

Based on the general tone of this thread, I can’t tell if this is sincere or sarcasm. Doesn’t matter, great post 😄

I am very sincere. The fact that we have an owner who is building us a brand new stadium to the tune of $1.4B should make all of us happy. Why is this thread full of admonishments and lament? I’m almost embarrassed to be a Bills after reading through some of this drivel, we should all be posting gratitude statements.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Im just sharing my thoughts on the new stadium and pointing out that it is OUR stadium, not the Bills. The public should have a say, in my opinion.

 

I have heard for years about the Bills outreach to fans for opinion. I know people who have been on panels and attended these events. The public has had a say in this forever.

 

You just don’t like the answer, so you persist. What was your dream? A dome downtown? (Probably my preference.) Well, it’s not happening. I don’t care if you ever want to get on board, but it’s not going to change because anybody was whining. 

[Einstein]

34 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

my congressman knows my name too. That’s why they’re politicians, they remember the people who gave (or might give) them money. You’re not special, no matter how hard you try to convince us.

 

That was a joke. I was joking that I complain so much that the congressman knows my name.

 

Guess the joke went over your head.

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

Agree with you 100% but the fact is we don’t, won’t, and never will. 

 

I’m not a local, so I have no say.

 

Do you vote? Maybe you are just a minority? 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I am very sincere. The fact that we have an owner who is building us a brand new stadium to the tune of $1.4B should make all of us happy. Why is this thread full of admonishments and lament? I’m almost embarrassed to be a Bills after reading through some of this drivel, we should all be posting gratitude statements.

Very nice and thanks for clarifying! I too am more than happy that the team is now locked into playing in buffalo for the foreseeable future thanks to this deal. 
 

As to what I bolded in your quote above - some people are mad we aren’t getting a covered stadium. Some are mad we didn’t just copy the Vikings stadium. Others are mad the seating capacity is going to be reduced. Some think the jumbotron is too small. Still other(s) think they are super smart and should’ve been consulted at every step of the negotiations.

 

I respect all these gripes (except the last one.) i’m gonna be there either way on opening day (unless they price me out.)

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That was a joke. I was joking that I complain so much that the congressman knows my name.

 

Guess the joke went over your head.

or you’re just not very funny. Could be anything Einstein I’m sure you’ll figure it out!

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Oh i’m known around the town hall meetings

I think theres a good chance I've seen your town hall antics on YouTube.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jauronimo

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

And yet, the taxpaying non-fans and fans pay for the business expenses of the team owner.  

 

Funny how none of that will come back to the people that paid for it.  

 

Not to open an old debate, ... Just sayin'.   For whatever the price more, Pegula could do whatever he wanted.  He had enough to throw around for a yacht that cost nearly $100M plus annual operating costs, but what, couldn't have put that money towards his own business expense?  Asking for a friend.  LOL  

 

It is what it all is, but the one thing missing from this entire shebang is very significant investment by the owner of the business whose business expense it is.   

 

As you said, the team will triple in value over so many decades, and he (or whomever the owner is at that time, Jessica?) will realize that profit, while those that paid for it won't realize any financial ROI whatsoever.  

 

If Pegula had wanted characteristics that are not there, he easily could have asked for and paid for them himself in what we understand is already the biggest publicly funded pro sports stadium in history.  

 

It’s Bills football and it’s something I’m willing to have my tax dollars pay for. 
 

We do control what happens. It’s just that there is very little interest in this stadium.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

hey to be honest, seriously, if I had that number I’d give it to you and insist on listening in. I would also like to know why a enclosed stadium wasn’t possible here, beyond the “cost feasibility” reason they cited. Don’t care about a dome either way, but I do agree with you we deserve a better answer than that.

he is always apparently serious, unfortunately.

I would like to know why an enclosed stadium wasn't possible. Considering that the new Titans stadium costs 2.1 billion compared to the Bills 1.4 billion.  

[Doc Brown]

For the engineers out there, when they realize in 15 years they made a massive mistake not putting a roof on.... how hard would it be to just add a functioning roof to the stadium?  Was there any thought to that option in the design?  

[mrags]

36 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Very nice and thanks for clarifying! I too am more than happy that the team is now locked into playing in buffalo for the foreseeable future thanks to this deal. 
 

As to what I bolded in your quote above - some people are mad we aren’t getting a covered stadium. Some are mad we didn’t just copy the Vikings stadium. Others are mad the seating capacity is going to be reduced. Some think the jumbotron is too small. Still other(s) think they are super smart and should’ve been consulted at every step of the negotiations.

 

I respect all these gripes (except the last one.) i’m gonna be there either way on opening day (unless they price me out.)

or you’re just not very funny. Could be anything Einstein I’m sure you’ll figure it out!

Im curious. You’re a seasons ticket holder. Where do you currently sit, what do you currently pay for tickets, and what is your “I’m out” price on the new stadium? 

[JoPoy88]

25 minutes ago, mrags said:

Im curious. You’re a seasons ticket holder. Where do you currently sit, what do you currently pay for tickets, and what is your “I’m out” price on the new stadium? 

I am in 126 lower bowl facing the scoreboard, (same as Bills Elvis! But he’s down in row 1 ☹️ I am about 30 rows up) but if you broke it down it was like $90-95 per game.

 

figuring out my “out” price is tough to do - family/peer pressure is a definitely a thing. But I do not want to lay out so much more given what I’ve seen so far. 
 

Personally, and I only have 2 seats, I’d do a $5,000 PSL and I’d do $160/seat/game. Anything more than that I’d consider dropping. 
 

EDIT: Found some of my 2022 tickets on my phone it was $113.00/seat. I gotta pay more attention to that s***

Edited March 1, 2023 by JoPoy88

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

I am in 126 lower bowl facing the scoreboard, (same as Bills Elvis! But he’s down in row 1 ☹️ I am about 30 rows up) but if you broke it down it was like $90-95 per game.

 

figuring out my “out” price is tough to do - family/peer pressure is a definitely a thing. But I do not want to lay out so much more given what I’ve seen so far. 
 

Personally, and I only have 2 seats, I’d do a $5,000 PSL and I’d do $160/seat/game. Anything more than that I’d consider dropping. 

I’m in 123, almost middle of the end zone, row 14. I pay roughly $1900 a season for 2 tickets. That comes out to approx $120/game per ticket. 
 

I think I’m good with a $5k PSL per seat if needed if I’m able to pay over an extended period of time. Likely 3 years won’t do it for me tho if we’re talking $10k I’ve got to fork over up front in the first 3 years. I fully expect to pay at least current club pricing for almost any ticket in the new stadium. So I expect close to $2k per tix per season. And that’s for put in the elements,  or so great seats, way up in the 500s. Probably a little more for end zones. And if you want something similar to the current clubs I think you can expect at least 3k a ticket every season.
 

I’m fully on board with 3k a ticket assuming that controlled weather is involved. If it’s not feasible, I can’t think I will ever justify spending over 2k a ticket for seats in the elements. Maybe under cover but no heat I would do it. But I am looking at similar to that.
 

I have all the options saved on my phone from when I took the survey. Have to go through my 15k photos to find them to get ideas again. But I think the possibility of proving your average fan out is highly likely. 

[JoPoy88]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m in 123, almost middle of the end zone, row 14. I pay roughly $1900 a season for 2 tickets. That comes out to approx $120/game per ticket. 
 

I think I’m good with a $5k PSL per seat if needed if I’m able to pay over an extended period of time. Likely 3 years won’t do it for me tho if we’re talking $10k I’ve got to fork over up front in the first 3 years. I fully expect to pay at least current club pricing for almost any ticket in the new stadium. So I expect close to $2k per tix per season. And that’s for put in the elements,  or so great seats, way up in the 500s. Probably a little more for end zones. And if you want something similar to the current clubs I think you can expect at least 3k a ticket every season.
 

I’m fully on board with 3k a ticket assuming that controlled weather is involved. If it’s not feasible, I can’t think I will ever justify spending over 2k a ticket for seats in the elements. Maybe under cover but no heat I would do it. But I am looking at similar to that.
 

I have all the options saved on my phone from when I took the survey. Have to go through my 15k photos to find them to get ideas again. But I think the possibility of proving your average fan out is highly likely. 

Yeah that all tracks. Honestly my estimates are wishful thinking more than anything. like i don’t think (or hope) that my equivalent seats will be sold to me for less than $200/g/s. And the PSLs (which I think will be at least $10K for 2 seats) can be spread over a 5 or 10 year period, added into the ticket price year after year.

 

yeah it‘s going to be expensive. Sticker shock is gonna hit people.

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Yeah that all tracks. Honestly my estimates are wishful thinking more than anything. like i don’t think (or hope) that my equivalent seats will be sold to me for less than $200/g/s. And the PSLs (which I think will be at least $10K for 2 seats) can be spread over a 5 or 10 year period, added into the ticket price year after year.

 

yeah it‘s going to be expensive. Sticker shock is gonna hit people.

I personally think the PSLs in the end zone area similar to both of our seats I believe won’t actually be too bad. And likely be able to pay them over 5-10 or maybe even 15 years. I’d expect about 2-3k per seat for each PSL. But I expect the ticket prices to be at least 2k if not a little higher. Not bad really considering. And I’m all for it if I’m covered. But I may need to buck up almost twice that if I want to be under cover with heat. Just not sure it makes sense. I love going to games but I’m thinking ahead and not sure I want to do that. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

For the engineers out there, when they realize in 15 years they made a massive mistake not putting a roof on.... how hard would it be to just add a functioning roof to the stadium?  Was there any thought to that option in the design?  

That would be a great question whenever they have a press conference about the stadium.

 

 

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That would be a great question whenever they have a press conference about the stadium.

 

 

So….. after its built? At least that’s how they are handling everything else. 

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

For the engineers out there, when they realize in 15 years they made a massive mistake not putting a roof on.... how hard would it be to just add a functioning roof to the stadium?  Was there any thought to that option in the design?  

1. they’ve considered a roofed stadium for sure. They don’t consider it a priority. So it won’t be reevaluated as a “mistake” in the future (at least not one they’d admit.)

 

2. from the shots we’ve been shown so far, it looks highly unlikely this thing is amenable to just slapping a cover on top of it as a retrofit. So i’d bet it would be very hard to do it. But maybe not - luckily we have a resident architect on the board so he will be able to offer expert opinion.

[Doc Brown]

8 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

1. they’ve considered a roofed stadium for sure. They don’t consider it a priority. So it won’t be reevaluated as a “mistake” in the future (at least not one they’d admit.)

 

2. from the shots we’ve been shown so far, it looks highly unlikely this thing is amenable to just slapping a cover on top of it as a retrofit. So i’d bet it would be very hard to do it. But maybe not - luckily we have a resident architect on the board so he will be able to offer expert opinion.

You never know what will happen with the seemingly increased number of weather events around here lately.  Eventually players and fans will respond with their mouths and/or pocket books.  There's conversations about adding a roof to the Jags stadium due to complaints about the heat. With enough of a public outcry to spend the money to put a roof on it some politician may pounce.  Just curious because they put a roof a few of the tennis courts at the US Open.  It was 180m to put a retractable roof on Arthur Ashe stadium.  Maybe more Seneca casino revenue to be collected to pay for it.

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s Bills football and it’s something I’m willing to have my tax dollars pay for. 
 

We do control what happens. It’s just that there is very little interest in this stadium.

 

You missed the point entirely.  

 

[nucci]

5 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I am very sincere. The fact that we have an owner who is building us a brand new stadium to the tune of $1.4B should make all of us happy. Why is this thread full of admonishments and lament? I’m almost embarrassed to be a Bills after reading through some of this drivel, we should all be posting gratitude statements.

This is not a slight at Pegula but he is not building the stadium and he is definitely not paying $1.4B

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

I respect all these gripes (except the last one.) i’m gonna be there either way on opening day (unless they price me out.) 

 

A lot of fans are going to be priced out.  It'll be interesting to see what the new set of attendees looks like generally speaking.  

 

They've already told us what to expect for pricing.  When the upper deck (non-corner) seats will be over $200 before PSLs and possibly even taxes, essentially the "cheap seats," people are going to be priced out.  

 

The forecast pricing in the new arrangement was greater than the aftermarket pricing this season, generally speaking.  I kept an eye on that for reference purposes.  

 

Of all my concerns, that's my biggest, what it's going to do to our fan base as such.  I see a lot of forthcoming consternation by fans over the new pricing structure, particularly given the public monies involved.  

 

Based on the renderings, the tailgating experience is also going to drastically change.  

 

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:18 PM, JoPoy88 said:

Facade looks pretty cool. 
 

Why are some people still hoping for a dome? Did I miss something? I thought they made it abundantly clear innumerable times there will be no dome.

Because people need something to witch at, but don’t in anyway think of the consequences of actions.  For example, these people want a dome, but also don’t want to pay any more $ for seats even though as it is the seat prices are going up.  Some people who aren’t pragmatic want their cake and eat it too.

 

Its over!  There will never be a dome.  NEVER.  Besides, now Racua states 60% of fans will be shielded from rain, snow and wind.  There will be wind confusion to allow Allen to throw that ball with confidence.

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

I personally think the PSLs in the end zone area similar to both of our seats I believe won’t actually be too bad. And likely be able to pay them over 5-10 or maybe even 15 years. I’d expect about 2-3k per seat for each PSL. But I expect the ticket prices to be at least 2k if not a little higher. Not bad really considering. And I’m all for it if I’m covered. But I may need to buck up almost twice that if I want to be under cover with heat. Just not sure it makes sense. I love going to games but I’m thinking ahead and not sure I want to do that. 

 

The pricing structure is out there, you can Google it if you want a fairly accurate idea.  

 

We'll see what happens, but I was surprised at the price hikes.  

 

[teef]

I think you all need to realize that the Pegulas hate you.

[Doc Brown]

13 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Because people need something to witch at, but don’t in anyway think of the consequences of actions.  For example, these people want a dome, but also don’t want to pay any more $ for seats even though as it is the seat prices are going up.  Some people who aren’t pragmatic want their cake and eat it too.

 

Its over!  There will never be a dome.  NEVER.  Besides, now Racua states 60% of fans will be shielded from rain, snow and wind.  There will be wind confusion to allow Allen to throw that ball with confidence.

How do you know that?  I personally would jump at season tickets even if they were double what they were now if I knew I was getting the same comfortable indoor weather every game.  I'm not paying for seasons with the possibility of being cold and miserable when I can be just miserable watching from home.

[WotAGuy]

Any renderings of the troughs yet?

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

1. they’ve considered a roofed stadium for sure. They don’t consider it a priority. So it won’t be reevaluated as a “mistake” in the future (at least not one they’d admit.)

 

2. from the shots we’ve been shown so far, it looks highly unlikely this thing is amenable to just slapping a cover on top of it as a retrofit. So i’d bet it would be very hard to do it. But maybe not - luckily we have a resident architect on the board so he will be able to offer expert opinion.

Morning Everyone…it’s still early out here on the west coast so forgive me if I’m just catching up.

 

The answer to the question is that it will be virtually impossible to extend the roof if it wasn’t first built into the calculations at the time of the initial construction. The cantilever forces transferred down into the foundations would be massive, especially with WNY snow loads.