Stadium Renderings Part 2

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

Agreed. Compared to the most recent Jetson’s-style stadiums that have become the NFL standard, that looks old before it’s even built. 
BTW- any word on when someone will turn that first shovel of dirt or do they have to form a committee and do a shovel study first?

It’s ridiculous how protracted any construction effort is up there. 

plan is still mid-2023 for groundbreaking, as it always has been. We’ll see.

1 minute ago, mrags said:

It’s likely more about the fact that since season tix prices are going to more than double and then add thousands in PSLs they know they are going to price so many thousands of fans out of a venue they have a hard time filling up now with the cheapest prices in the league. 

So if that’s the case why are Tennessee and Washington planning on the same thing? Do they also have the cheapest seats in the league? 

[teef]

21 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah, that's all inflation.

 

Falcons opened their massive stadium with a mall apparently in it the following year (2017) for $1.5B.

 

 

Now THAT is a much sharper looking stadium.

 

The mini-roof appears to cover way more seats, and the seats are not blocky. I like the curved seat section in the endzone (or goal area).

Looking at the Tottenham stadium (thank you Figster) why didn't we do this? It was even designed by populous!

We would still have the snow/rain/weather games that people love, and fans get to stay dry. This blows what we see in our new renderings out of the water.

 

 

the cost rising is not just as a result of inflation...at all.  the costs of construction, labor, housing, etc has risen far beyond standard inflation.   comparing cost of building a stadium in 2016 and 2017 doesn't factor in today.  how much more is housing alone this year than 2 years ago....or building.  is that just inflation?

 

ok.  so you're fixated on cost.  do you think the bills are getting taken for the cost.  what do you think they should be getting for the money being spent.  

 

 

honestly, all i see here is people who do like the way it was designed, and are trying to find a way to complain.  whiney men.  get over it.  there's no dome.

17 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Agreed. Even the Titans stadium looks much better and didn't cost that much more. IMO it feels like they went with the best stadium they can do for the price they were willing to spend. Since it's only going to be used for the Bills and they aren't getting a Super Bowl here why spend more then needed. For most fans the fact this means the team is staying is good enough. They got an improved stadium over Highmark. What more do you need?

yeah...that's kinda how it works.  again, you biggest issue is you don't like the look.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, teef said:

  is that just inflation?

 

yes...

 

I'm not sure you understand what inflation is. It is all encompassing. 

[teef]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

yes...

 

I'm not sure you understand what inflation is. It is all encompassing. 

ok.  so you think the massive jump in costs of construction and housing has just followed standard inflation over the last couple of years?  you know...i've seen people get into it with you.  i figured you either didn't understand or you were just refusing to see other's points.  now i know you just don't understand.

 

again, for the price, what should the bills be getting that they should be?

[mrags]

49 minutes ago, teef said:

again, you're making assumptions.

 

 

on top of that, your looking at inflation from 2016 to 2023?  do you think that's taken into account the recent massive price hike on supplies and labor?   you just can't compare costs now to costs then.  i think that would be obvious.  what was the typical costs of other stadiums in 2016?    there's more of an approach to this than you're considering.  

Actually there’s A lot of people that believe you are making assumptions. The Buffalo Bills org is releasing renderings of the stadium and giving us expectations of what it will look like and it’s not acceptable to more than a few on a small message board. You are the one making assumptions that it’ll be anything more than what they are supplying with disappointing images. 

12 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

plan is still mid-2023 for groundbreaking, as it always has been. We’ll see.

So if that’s the case why are Tennessee and Washington planning on the same thing? Do they also have the cheapest seats in the league? 

 No. In those markets they actually have people and business as well as national corporations ponying up for expensive seats and PSLs. A massive majority of season ticket holders in Buffalo are drunk 20 somethings. Most of them still live in moms basement 

[teef]

Just now, mrags said:

Actually there’s A lot of people that believe you are making assumptions. The Buffalo Bills org is releasing renderings of the stadium and giving us expectations of what it will look like and it’s not acceptable to more than a few on a small message board. You are the one making assumptions that it’ll be anything more than what they are supplying with disappointing images. 

yes, but i'm not complaining either way.  guess what?  those rendering may have more of what you want than you can tell.  it's a rendering.  that's all.  of course i'm making assumptions, but i've chosen not to complain about anything until i know at least what's going to be included.  until then, it's the same people bitching...well, that's because it's who they area.  you have a guy here trying to show inflation rates in terms on construction costs to B word.  he just wants to complain.  

 

say it with me...you will never see a dome here, and i'm bummed about that too.  

[mrags]

1 minute ago, teef said:

yes, but i'm not complaining either way.  guess what?  those rendering may have more of what you want than you can tell.  it's a rendering.  that's all.  of course i'm making assumptions, but i've chosen not to complain about anything until i know at least what's going to be included.  until then, it's the same people bitching...well, that's because it's who they area.  you have a guy here trying to show inflation rates in terms on construction costs to B word.  he just wants to complain.  

 

say it with me...you will never see a dome here, and i'm bummed about that too.  

Yes. I know we’re not getting a dome. The rest of this lame stadium is what bothers me. Especially for the money. When I say that I mean because for the cost to the tax payers, and season ticket holders of which I’m both, it leave a lot to be desired. 
 

My assumptions about it being what they are showing in their renderings are more true than what yours are trying to justify that the renderings are going to be something different that the actual finished product. I believe it’s laughable that someone thinks an official rendering from the source of a multi billion dollar franchise and a multi billion dollar architectural firm who has produced multiple different stadiums in the past that are very similar to what we are building would show something that wasn’t even remotely close to what the final product will be. 
 

it’s comical that you believe things are going to be vastly different than what’s shown so far. Just as comical and scary really that you are ok with mediocrity. If your from the area and you can’t see that this is all a waste it’s puzzling to me. 

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

 No. In those markets they actually have people and business as well as national corporations ponying up for expensive seats and PSLs. A massive majority of season ticket holders in Buffalo are drunk 20 somethings. Most of them still live in moms basement 

No what? Are you saying the TENN and WASH markets reduced capacity as well because they get more value per seat because they have customer markets that can pay more? Because that’s exactly what I and the author of the article I linked said. Then you disagreed with me. Did you bother to read the link? Because that site has covered the topic of stadium construction in this country for years.
 

Anyways you sound ultra salty on this topic, so much so that you’re not making much sense. No one here “defending” the new stadium is making assumptions. The exact opposite really - we’re not forming assumptions based on a few screenshots that don’t show the total picture. Will it look basically like the pics from the angles supplied? Yeah probably. That doesn’t tell anywhere close to the whole story. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Yes. I know we’re not getting a dome. The rest of this lame stadium is what bothers me. Especially for the money. When I say that I mean because for the cost to the tax payers, and season ticket holders of which I’m both, it leave a lot to be desired. 
 

My assumptions about it being what they are showing in their renderings are more true than what yours are trying to justify that the renderings are going to be something different that the actual finished product. I believe it’s laughable that someone thinks an official rendering from the source of a multi billion dollar franchise and a multi billion dollar architectural firm who has produced multiple different stadiums in the past that are very similar to what we are building would show something that wasn’t even remotely close to what the final product will be. 
 

it’s comical that you believe things are going to be vastly different than what’s shown so far. Just as comical and scary really that you are ok with mediocrity. If your from the area and you can’t see that this is all a waste it’s puzzling to me. 

i'm not sure why people are so fixated on that we're not getting what we should be getting for the price. no one know what the costs are, (including me) so that's just a strange approach.  enough with the costs to the tax payers.  it won't hit either of us financially, and shouldn't change our lives.  i'm not a season ticket holder, so i certainly don't have as much stake in it as you do to be fair.  

 

 

so...the rendering.  have you dealt with them before?  they'll give you an esthetic overview, and possibly the the idea of what seats will be covered, but that's it.  there's no further specs than that.  maybe the score board is a different size, seating layout looks a bit different, etc.  there's no reason to get bent out of shape at this point, yet here we are.

 

if the stadium isn't the way you want it, would you still buy tickets?  i think that's what you have to ask yourself.

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, teef said:

i'm not sure why people are so fixated on that we're not getting what we should be getting for the price. no one know what the costs are, (including me) so that's just a strange approach.  enough with the costs to the tax payers.  it won't hit either of us financially, and shouldn't change our lives.  i'm not a season ticket holder, so i certainly don't have as much stake in it as you do to be fair.  

 

 

so...the rendering.  have you dealt with them before?  they'll give you an esthetic overview, and possibly the the idea of what seats will be covered, but that's it.  there's no further specs than that.  maybe the score board is a different size, seating layout looks a bit different, etc.  there's no reason to get bent out of shape at this point, yet here we are.

 

if the stadium isn't the way you want it, would you still buy tickets?  i think that's what you have to ask yourself.

one would also think a supposed season ticket holder with so much contempt for his fellow fanbase (“20-something basement-dwellers”) and stadium design should just, I don’t know, spend their money on something else? 

[teef]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

one would also think a supposed season ticket holder with so much contempt for his fellow fanbase (“20-something basement-dwellers”) and stadium design should just, I don’t know, spend their money on something else? 

it's a simple as that.  if you want to show contempt for this project...what's better?  complaining about it on a message board or just not spend the money on a product you approve of.  there was always going to be a group that's not satisfied.  that's life, but some of the reasoning i hear concerning this is just odd.

[May Day 10]

I haven't really trashed the project yet...

 

But all these unnecessary angles, giant facades, and voids really bother me.  Im not a fan of this

 

 

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, teef said:

for the price, what should the bills be getting that they should be?

For the Vikings stadium. Or even the Tottenham stadium.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

For the Vikings stadium. Or even the Tottenham stadium.

you think those stadium would be build for 1.4 billion today?

[SoCal Deek]

Let me try this again for those who haven't been paying attention.  The 'renderings' we're seeing are not created by a dude with a paint brush! They are computer generated from the 3D Model of the actual stadium design. The only thing that's inserted with a bit of artist's license is the team on the field, the people in the stands, and the images on the scoreboard. The surrounding neighborhood is also not painted on. With today's technology, we can actually insert the architectural model directly into Google Earth and place the project in its actual context. In short...if they are indeed going to break ground in just a few weeks....THIS IS THE ACTUAL STADIUM DESIGN.

 

Got it? 

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Let me try this again for those who haven't been paying attention.  The 'renderings' we're seeing are not created by a dude with a paint brush! They are computer generated from the 3D Model of the actual stadium design. The only thing that's inserted with a bit of artist's license is the team on the field, the people in the stands, and the images on the scoreboard. The surrounding neighborhood is also not painted on. With today's technology, we can actually insert the architectural model directly into Google Earth and place the project in its actual context. In short...if they are indeed going to break ground in just a few weeks....THIS IS THE ACTUAL STADIUM DESIGN.

 

Got it? 

Thank you. Seems some people don’t think this is pretty close to exactly what we will be getting and think some magical unicorns will pop up overnight and provide us with better covered seating. Better heated seating. Make assumptions that the concourses are going to be drop dead amazing (without any renderings mind you). 
 

So far the renderings leave much to be desired and it’s not going to happen. We will have more of the same. A stadium in the middle of nowhere. That isn’t comfortable in the winter. Doesn’t take nearly enough effort to remove as much weather as possible despite not by a dome. That eliminates any use of the stadium other than 10 Sunday’s a year for football season and maybe 3 concerts a year in the summer time. Has the same terrible traffic patterns just like every Sunday on game day. Has little to know room for progress where it sits with regard to hotels, restaurants, and bars. You know. Things that actually provide something to do before, during, and after the game on game days. Unless your talking about the 48 people packing into Big Tree, or the 400 20 year olds spending mommy’s money at that dump on the corner of Abbott and southwestern. 
 

it’s just a disappointment. 

54 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm not sure why people are so fixated on that we're not getting what we should be getting for the price. no one know what the costs are, (including me) so that's just a strange approach.  enough with the costs to the tax payers.  it won't hit either of us financially, and shouldn't change our lives.  i'm not a season ticket holder, so i certainly don't have as much stake in it as you do to be fair.  

 

 

so...the rendering.  have you dealt with them before?  they'll give you an esthetic overview, and possibly the the idea of what seats will be covered, but that's it.  there's no further specs than that.  maybe the score board is a different size, seating layout looks a bit different, etc.  there's no reason to get bent out of shape at this point, yet here we are.

 

if the stadium isn't the way you want it, would you still buy tickets?  i think that's what you have to ask yourself.

Based on what other cities have downs recently, and what similar cities are getting for their money at the same time like Tennessee, we are getting shafted. 

[teef]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Let me try this again for those who haven't been paying attention.  The 'renderings' we're seeing are not created by a dude with a paint brush! They are computer generated from the 3D Model of the actual stadium design. The only thing that's inserted with a bit of artist's license is the team on the field, the people in the stands, and the images on the scoreboard. The surrounding neighborhood is also not painted on. With today's technology, we can actually insert the architectural model directly into Google Earth and place the project in its actual context. In short...if they are indeed going to break ground in just a few weeks....THIS IS THE ACTUAL STADIUM DESIGN.

 

Got it? 

yes...it's the stadium design, and that's it.  it doesn't include the amenities inside the stadium that people are complaining about already, or specifics.  we have someone circling voids that may not be part of the final design at all.  the over all look is represented, but that may not be the specific size of the score board, etc.  

[mrags]

50 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

one would also think a supposed season ticket holder with so much contempt for his fellow fanbase (“20-something basement-dwellers”) and stadium design should just, I don’t know, spend their money on something else? 

Don’t worry I’m thinking about it. 

48 minutes ago, teef said:

it's a simple as that.  if you want to show contempt for this project...what's better?  complaining about it on a message board or just not spend the money on a product you approve of.  there was always going to be a group that's not satisfied.  that's life, but some of the reasoning i hear concerning this is just odd.

If you happen to have Pegulas phone number, please send it over. I’ll be glad to call him an idiot 

[teef]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

 

Based on what other cities have downs recently, and what similar cities are getting for their money at the same time like Tennessee, we are getting shafted. 

this is your assumption because you see the cost and it doesn't equate to what you want.  i get it.  so what about the tenn stadium.  i honestly know nothing about it, so what's the point being made there, (i really am not sure).

[mrags]

1 minute ago, teef said:

yes...it's the stadium design, and that's it.  it doesn't include the amenities inside the stadium that people are complaining about already, or specifics.  we have someone circling voids that may not be part of the final design at all.  the over all look is represented, but that may not be the specific size of the score board, etc.  

it would be amazing that a multi billion dollar architectural firm that has designed multiple stadiums in the past can’t figure out how to create things to scale in the renderings for the nfl world to see. They aren’t new to this. The rendering designs are pretty much what we’re going to get. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

 

If you happen to have Pegulas phone number, please send it over. I’ll be glad to call him an idiot 

how many rendering have you been involved with or building projects have you completed?  you know they hire groups, get multiple bids, etc.  you're right though...the billionaire is getting screwed because that's how he rolls.  

 

face it...you didn't get what you what so you're complaining about it.  how about just moving on?  if it's too cold and bothersome in the winter...don't go.  that's your choice.  

 

what you and a lot of other poster don't realize is that you griping about it won't change a thing.  it just won't.

[mrags]

1 minute ago, teef said:

this is your assumption because you see the cost and it doesn't equate to what you want.  i get it.  so what about the tenn stadium.  i honestly know nothing about it, so what's the point being made there, (i really am not sure).

They are getting a masterpiece for not much more. I know very little about it as well honestly. But I’ve seen the renderings and they seem significantly better that what we’re getting. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

it would be amazing that a multi billion dollar architectural firm that has designed multiple stadiums in the past can’t figure out how to create things to scale in the renderings for the nfl world to see. They aren’t new to this. The rendering designs are pretty much what we’re going to get. 

in terms of looks yes.  what's going inside?  how much of the canopies are going to covers seats?  i don't know.  you don't know.  again, if you don't want to get wet, stay home.

[mrags]

1 minute ago, teef said:

how many rendering have you been involved with or building projects have you completed?  you know they hire groups, get multiple bids, etc.  you're right though...the billionaire is getting screwed because that's how he rolls.  

 

face it...you didn't get what you what so you're complaining about it.  how about just moving on?  if it's too cold and bothersome in the winter...don't go.  that's your choice.  

 

what you and a lot of other poster don't realize is that you griping about it won't change a thing.  it just won't.

Just curious not being a ST holder makes you even like it? We’ve all said what we dislike about it. Tell us what you like about it? Keep in mind you apparently don’t go to games. How bout do you even live in the area?

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

yes...it's the stadium design, and that's it.  it doesn't include the amenities inside the stadium that people are complaining about already, or specifics.  we have someone circling voids that may not be part of the final design at all.  the over all look is represented, but that may not be the specific size of the score board, etc.  

Not to get too technical, but yes, just about EVERYTHING you see in these renderings are what the actual stadium will look like. In the architectural profession we no longer do drawings. We build a a three dimensional model of the entire facility, right down to the nuts and bolts. Then we simply import that model into rendering software and spits out these images. 

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Not to get too technical, but yes, just about EVERYTHING you see in these renderings are what the actual stadium will look like. In the architectural profession we no longer do drawings. We build a a three dimensional computer model of the entire facility, right down to the nuts and bolts. Then we simply import that model into rendering software and it spits out these images. 

 

[teef]

Just now, mrags said:

They are getting a masterpiece for not much more. I know very little about it as well honestly. But I’ve seen the renderings and they seem significantly better that what we’re getting. 

so you don't know much about it but use it as an example?  don't listen to einstein.  he has zero idea that there's more than inflation at play here.  just look up construction costs over the last 3 years alone.  you really think the pegulas didn't figure cost into the design.  everyone is acting like he got one quote and just accepted it.  that's not how this works with multiple sources of revenue going into one project.  that's the cost of doing business.

[JoPoy88]

Just now, mrags said:

They are getting a masterpiece for not much more. I know very little about it as well honestly. But I’ve seen the renderings and they seem significantly better that what we’re getting. 

I mean, to be fair it’s $2.1billion in TN vs $1.4B. I don’t think an $700M difference should be characterized as “not much more.” It’s a full 50% more.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, teef said:

if you don't want to get wet, stay home.

New season ticket sales slogan?

[mrags]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Not to get too technical, but yes, just about EVERYTHING you see in these renderings are what the actual stadium will look like. In the architectural profession we no longer do drawings. We build a a three dimensional model of the entire facility, right down to the nuts and bolts. Then we simply import that model into rendering software and spits out these images. 

And for the record, what is it that you do for a career SoCal?

[teef]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Just curious not being a ST holder makes you even like it? We’ve all said what we dislike about it. Tell us what you like about it? Keep in mind you apparently don’t go to games. How bout do you even live in the area?

i've said the design is meh, and i'd like a dome too.  i just can't get over man babies crying that they didn't get what they want.  i'm not a season ticket holder, but i go to a few games a year, and yeah...i do live in the area.  my taxes will go to this too.  things are exactly the way i want, and i can still manage to not be a giant B word about it.

[mrags]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

I mean, to be fair it’s $2.1billion in TN vs $1.4B. I don’t think an $700M difference should be characterized as “not much more.” It’s a full 50% more.

Well, we’ve already been told that a dime would have cost us an additional 800m. So apparently they are lying less for getting more if you take away the dome. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

I mean, to be fair it’s $2.1billion in TN vs $1.4B. I don’t think an $700M difference should be characterized as “not much more.” It’s a full 50% more.

When you break it down over 50 years it’s not something that couldn’t get done.

 

The Bills will triple in worth over that time.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, mrags said:

And for the record, what is it that you do for a career SoCal?

I recently retired as Managing Partner of one of the firms listed on the Top 100 design firms in the nation. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

New season ticket sales slogan?

that or, "you're lucky to have us".

[mrags]

Just now, teef said:

i've said the design is meh, and i'd like a dome too.  i just can't get over man babies crying that they didn't get what they want.  i'm not a season ticket holder, but i go to a few games a year, and yeah...i do live in the area.  my taxes will go to this too.  things are exactly the way i want, and i can still manage to not be a giant B word about it.

Well, I don’t have Pegulas phone number. I’ll be happy to B word to him instead of doing it here someone get me his number. 

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I recently retired as Managing Partner of one of the firms listed on the Top 100 design firms in the nation. 

Thank you. Seems people here don’t want to believe someone that’s actually done this as a career 

1 minute ago, teef said:

that or, "you're lucky to have us".

Great, just like when Ralph was here 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Thank you. Seems people here don’t want to believe someone that’s actually done this as a career 

 

No worries. I take no offense, nor offer my opinion to boast. I’m just hoping to break through the internet chatter. 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well, we’ve already been told that a dime would have cost us an additional 800m. So apparently they are lying less for getting more if you take away the dome. 

 

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

When you break it down over 50 years it’s not something that couldn’t get done.

 

The Bills will triple in worth over that time.

Hey I am not going to defend how the money was secured, how much of it, should they have pressed for more or ponied up more of their own money. I don’t like anything about how these things are funded and built. I’m just saying the dollars for each respective stadium are what they are at this stage of the game and they’re not really that close.

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

i've said the design is meh, and i'd like a dome too.  i just can't get over man babies crying that they didn't get what they want.  i'm not a season ticket holder, but i go to a few games a year, and yeah...i do live in the area.  my taxes will go to this too.  things are exactly the way i want, and i can still manage to not be a giant B word about it.

And fyi, your view in this whole thing is exactly what’s wrong with this whole project and society today. Accepting anything that’s not best for everyone involved. Like I’ve said already in this thread, you act like the girl that keeps going back to her boyfriend that keeps beating her but tells her he’s sorry and sends her flowers after every beating. Apparently it’s just ok with you that we have a team and don’t care about anything else. 
 

personally I think this whole thing screams mediocrity on every level. Just like our owner, just like our HC, just like our GM. Basically the entire organization is just ok with being in the game and have no desire to win it on any level. Similar to the mind set of most Buffalonians. 

I’d also like to point out that people here that don’t go to games on a regular basis, or don’t live in the area, shouldn’t even be involved in the argument. 
 

If you are that’s fine, if you are not, you should have zero opinion on any of it. You don’t utilize what we’re going to be getting on Sunday’s, and your taxes aren’t paying for it either. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

And fyi, your view in this whole thing is exactly what’s wrong with this whole project and society today. Accepting anything that’s not best for everyone involved. Like I’ve said already in this thread, you act like the girl that keeps going back to her boyfriend that keeps beating her but tells her he’s sorry and sends her flowers after every beating. Apparently it’s just ok with you that we have a team and don’t care about anything else. 
 

personally I think this whole thing screams mediocrity on every level. Just like our owner, just like our HC, just like our GM. Basically the entire organization is just ok with being in the game and have no desire to win it on any level. Similar to the mind set of most Buffalonians. 

Ouch! 😳

[mrags]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ouch! 😳

Call me a liar