Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

Also one of the highest rated QBs from inside the pocket last season without a real NFL WR Corps.

 

Dude is elite.  Also, where are the maturity issues? Everything I've read about him is that he is one of the best dudes in the league as a star

Maturity issues resulting in the ongoing circus now, his highly suspect injuries and not playing out last year, to me all major red flags. 

 

Also the man is either not very smart and/or excessively greedy.  Who in the right mind that has millions of dollars at stake is too cheap/arrogant not to get a qualified agent to help negotiate/construct the ideal contract.  So instead of netting $133 million he would only not what $130 meanwhile with a highly suspect contract that could have all sort of hidden outs for the Ravens.  Classic penny wise and pound foolish.

[Gunsgoodtime]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

Going on Twitter and telling an average american who's probably making less than 60K a year he just turned down 133M guaranteed is always a good thing, what could go wrong?

Nobody ever claimed him to be the brightest bulb in the pack!  Having no agent and his Momma as his advisor just further proves it

[appoo]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

Maturity issues resulting in the ongoing circus now, his highly suspect injuries and not playing out last year, to me all major red flags. 

 

Also the man is either not very smart and/or excessively greedy.  Who in the right mind that has millions of dollars at stake is too cheap/arrogant not to get a qualified agent to help negotiate/construct the ideal contract.  So instead of netting $133 million he would only not what $130 meanwhile with a highly suspect contract that could have all sort of hidden outs for the Ravens.  Classic penny wise and pound foolish.

I don't know why he isn't wanting an agent. But I can't sit here and claim maturity issues over it when all the evidence I have from the prior 4 years tells me the opposite. I also have no problem with these guys trying to maximize their own value and income. So many of these guys come from poor or troubles backgrounds, and every extra million is that much more generational wealth so that his kids and grandkids won't have to go through what he and his family did growing up. 

 

Also think he should be cheered for not playing injured, when there's a huge risk for his long term viability. We ask enough of these players, we don't need to be asking that of them

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, appoo said:

There's a huge collusion whiff coming from LJ and the Owners that has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with that insanely stupid contract the Browns paid for Watson. 

 

The NFL Owners believe building on that contract would break the Salary Cap as its currently structured - they're probably not wrong either - but if they are collectively black balling Lamar because they don't want to pay any QB more than what Watson got, that's really unfair to LJ, who's done nothing but earn being a top 5 QB, after being told he should be a WR coming into the draft.

How are they blackballing Lamar if the owners have legitimate business reasons for not giving him the contract he wants? I mean maybe they just don't think he's worth that. If Lamar's camp starts alleging collusion, it will not be a good look imo. Just sour grapes. 

[appoo]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

How are they blackballing Lamar if the owners have legitimate business reasons for not giving him the contract he wants? I mean maybe they just don't think he's worth that. If Lamar's camp starts alleging collusion, it will not be a good look imo. Just sour grapes. 

He's an MVP caliber QB at 25 and no one is even talking to him, allegedly? That's not normal. They're making an object lesson of him

[starrymessenger]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

I don't know why he isn't wanting an agent. But I can't sit here and claim maturity issues over it when all the evidence I have from the prior 4 years tells me the opposite. I also have no problem with these guys trying to maximize their own value and income. So many of these guys come from poor or troubles backgrounds, and every extra million is that much more generational wealth so that his kids and grandkids won't have to go through what he and his family did growing up. 

 

Also think he should be cheered for not playing injured, when there's a huge risk for his long term viability. We ask enough of these players, we don't need to be asking that of them

And should he be cheered for not even being on the sidelines in the playoff game when the backup who hero worships him and was banged up himself had to play? 

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

He's an MVP caliber QB at 25 and no one is even talking to him, allegedly? That's not normal. They're making an object lesson of him

Oh, maybe as many as six or seven teams may talk to him. It's just that they may well not feel that it's in their best interests to meet his demands. 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

He's an MVP caliber QB at 25 and no one is even talking to him, allegedly? That's not normal. They're making an object lesson of him

What's he done since the MVP year? I think 33 TD passes compared to Josh Allen who has 71.

Edited March 14, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Doc]

So glad the Bills got the best and most reasonable QB from that draft class.  Admittedly I didn't want Josh but I certainly didn't want Lamar.

[Mikie2times]

34 minutes ago, appoo said:

He's an MVP caliber QB at 25 and no one is even talking to him, allegedly? That's not normal. They're making an object lesson of him

The Roman offense made Taylor and Kaepernick pro bowl QB's. After his rookie year teams figured him out. He is injured frequently. He is erratic in social media. He is Vick in an era with much better athleticism. You can certainly do worse. Vick, at his peak, lost in the NFC championship. But the maturity in Vick prior to the arrest was poor and the same thing goes for Lamar. I would MUCH rather play the the game of find me a QB and risk the fail, then subject my team to wild card purgatory for a fortune. 

[Augie]

43 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

What's he done since the MVP year? I think 31 TD passes compared to Josh Allen who has 64.

 

That’s a combination of ability, surrounding offensive parts and availability. He might have more impressive numbers if he hadn’t missed 15 games in the last two seasons. We’ll never know, however, since HE DID MISS 15 GAMES in the last two seasons. Sorry, that does not scream “fully guaranteed money is a good idea” to me. 

 

Josh is the better QB, and he has the physical build and determined mindset to remain available to his team. I hope we put him at risk less often next year, because it’s the NFL. Absolutely NOBODY is immune to that controlled violence. I’ve been told the human body is not meant to play the game.  😋

[Albany,n.y.]

13 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That’s a combination of ability, surrounding offensive parts and availability. He might have more impressive numbers if he hadn’t missed 15 games in the last two seasons. We’ll never know, however, since HE DID MISS 15 GAMES in the last two seasons. Sorry, that does not scream “fully guaranteed money is a good idea” to me. 

 

Josh is the better QB, and he has the physical build and determined mindset to remain available to his team. I hope we put him at risk less often next year, because it’s the NFL. Absolutely NOBODY is immune to that controlled violence. I’ve been told the human body is not meant to play the game.  😋

He missed 5 games each of the last 2 regular seasons & 1 playoff game.  That's 11 total games, not 15.  So, he did not miss 15 games. In fact he hasn't missed 15 games in his entire 5 year NFL career.    

[QLBillsFan]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Nothing beyond league MVP and leading his team in rushing and passing every year.

 

Worth is what any team will pay for him, as simple as that.

 

You are correct, he is oft injured and a maturity issue.  If he persists in insisting on being a Raven and the highest paid QB, then no team will likely bend to his wishes.

Lot of good points. MVP is like a snapshot in time. Is he currently on a trajectory for MVP seasons in the future? A good QB I won’t argue. Essentially it’s about value and I think we agree on it.

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, appoo said:

He's an MVP caliber QB at 25 and no one is even talking to him, allegedly? That's not normal. They're making an object lesson of him

Nice try! JA was from the same draft class. I think an argument could have been made when JA signed his deal, they were both in the same range for a contract. Since, JA used an agent and signed his first big deal- now looking like a Bills bargain. He believed this is the right place for him.
LJ, no agent, somewhat inconsistent with a few injuries. Apparently not on the same page as the Ravens. A team well respected in the game. Who built an O around him. He has rewarded them by not signing what appears to have been excellent offers. Although not completely idiotic like the Browns. This is where those who follow the NFL suggest the Ravens are getting it right. Value vs reward. Clearly the Ravens and NFL don’t feel he’s worth it. And it’s speculative that if a team creates a deal for LJ and the Ravens match they are out of luck. That team is then not in a good position for other moves in FA. 

[Augie]

20 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He missed 5 games each of the last 2 regular seasons & 1 playoff game.  That's 11 total games, not 15.  So, he did not miss 15 games. In fact he hasn't missed 15 games in his entire 5 year NFL career.    

 

Fair enough, I trusted what I’ve read in numerous places. It looks like 11, and not 15.  It’s still a lot. A guy who misses 5-6 games in each of the most recent seasons is not a guy I want to give 100% guaranteed money to. I’ll admit, I don’t even want JOSH to be fully guaranteed, but that’s a personal thing.

 

Lamar has bad timing. Missing five games a year for a couple seasons, especially considering his size and style of game, is concerning. It’s also curious that there was mystery surrounding his injury and return late last year.

 

Good representation helps deal with the image factor. His Mommy is doing him no favors. There should have been a better message regarding his status last season, instead of letting his status and availability for the playoffs to be questioned. Was it injury…..or the contract that kept him out? Nobody should have to wonder that. It’s a bad look. 

 

I don’t hate the player, but I hate fully guaranteed deals with guys who may not be there to earn the checks. I feel badly for him, because I feel he needs better advice. 

 

 

.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Augie

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

There's a huge collusion whiff coming from LJ and the Owners that has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with that insanely stupid contract the Browns paid for Watson. 

 

The NFL Owners believe building on that contract would break the Salary Cap as its currently structured - they're probably not wrong either - but if they are collectively black balling Lamar because they don't want to pay any QB more than what Watson got, that's really unfair to LJ, who's done nothing but earn being a top 5 QB, after being told he should be a WR coming into the draft.

 

Like, LJ is the kind of person you WANT being the face of the league. 

 

Young, Charismatic, the local population absolutely loves him as a human being, philanthropic minded, personable, funny, and a truly special athlete and QB. They're picking on the wrong dude here. He's essentially the opposite of Jay Cutler

that’s basically it. Is Jackson probably overvaluing himself? Sure. He’s far from the only one. Not a knock against him.

 

I hit on it earlier in the thread and you just reiterated it - Jackson is in the crosshairs simply because the owners are adamant against reinforcing the precedent set by Cleveland. Doing another deal similar to that completely opens the floodgates as it relates to top-tier QBs. Jackson’s timing couldn’t be worse, in simpler terms. 
 

He seems quite willing to stick to his guns however, so good for him.

[Billl]

Something about Lamar Jackson makes people lose their minds.  In no universe is he worth less than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, etc.  

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Something about Lamar Jackson makes people lose their minds.  In no universe is he worth less than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, etc.  

 

Yep. The fact that some people are arguing “well, shoulda took the $133M” is ludicrous.

[Augie]

Just now, Billl said:

Something about Lamar Jackson makes people lose their minds.  In no universe is he worth less than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, etc.  

 

He was offered a fair contract that seemed to be in line with his peers. It wasn’t good enough, because it wasn’t fully guaranteed. THAT is the problem. Does he deserve a better deal than Josh or Mahomes? I think not. Deshaun Watson is a dirt bag and Jimmy Halsey is an idiot and bad for the league. 

[Billl]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

He was offered a fair contract that seemed to be in line with his peers. It wasn’t good enough, because it wasn’t fully guaranteed. THAT is the problem. Does he deserve a better deal than Josh or Mahomes? I think not. Deshaun Watson is a dirt bag and Jimmy Halsey is an idiot and bad for the league. 

He was offered a borderline top 10 contract that would have been well below market.

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He missed 5 games each of the last 2 regular seasons & 1 playoff game.  That's 11 total games, not 15.  So, he did not miss 15 games. In fact he hasn't missed 15 games in his entire 5 year NFL career.    

He also missed this last season’s playoff game.  Missing the end of 2 seasons and the playoffs might not be a trend but it’s enough to give teams pause on a long-term fully-guaranteed contract, much less surrendering 2-1st rounders. 

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

Something about Lamar Jackson makes people lose their minds.  In no universe is he worth less than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, etc.  

I haven’t seen anyone here who suggests that. I think the Jones contract was high for sure. The other two seem about right in this market. What we do know is this. LJ wants all his $250 guaranteed. The only one losing minds are people who think that makes sense to the Ravens or any team not from Cleveland.

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

He was offered a fair contract that seemed to be in line with his peers. It wasn’t good enough, because it wasn’t fully guaranteed. THAT is the problem. Does he deserve a better deal than Josh or Mahomes? I think not. Deshaun Watson is a dirt bag and Jimmy Halsey is an idiot and bad for the league. 

 

We don’t know what contract he was offered. We just know what was leaked by the Ravens. The info seems plausible, but when teams leak imo they usually make their offers seem better than they really are.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Billl]

Nobody would be complaining about Watson’s contract if he was balling out.  It’s a bad contract because he’s been a disaster on and off the field.  Lamar has been great on and off the field.  Why should he pay for Watson’s crimes when every other mediocre at best QB is cashing in?

[QLBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

He was offered a borderline top 10 contract that would have been well below market.

What exactly was he offered ? You know this how? He claims he was offered $133m for 3 guaranteed. Others suggest that deal was closer to  $200m apparently with more years. What specific offer was he given that you are sure was “ below” his market? 

[starrymessenger]

16 minutes ago, Billl said:

Something about Lamar Jackson makes people lose their minds.  In no universe is he worth less than Daniel Jones, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, etc.  

I don't see where Lamar is being valued less than those guys. At 133 MM fully guaranteed for three years (though he apparently wanted a longer term, more money, and more money guaranteed) he'd be making more annually and have more guaranteed money, all of which I would think is appropriate. 
Lamar's legitimate play was to ask for a new contract heading into his third year after he won MVP. I don't understand why his agent wasn't jumping up and down. Oh wait...

Apparently a great guy but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by starrymessenger

[Virgil]

The longer this goes on, the more the Ravens better hope someone with a top 10 pick signs him to an offer sheet or they will be going into next season with 2TD Huntley

[Augie]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

We don’t know what contract he was offered. We just know what was leaked by the Ravens. 

 

This is an interesting point. Yes, everything we know got leaked by someone. (Whatever they offered was just that, a first offer, but I digress.) NOT having a qualified agent does not allow for the game to play out as it usually does in the real world. I’d like his chances more with better representation. 

 

The Ravens are a well run organization that seems to have smart people at the helm. The player, in this case, seems to be the wrinkle. 

[QLBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Nobody would be complaining about Watson’s contract if he was balling out.  It’s a bad contract because he’s been a disaster on and off the field.  Lamar has been great on and off the field.  Why should he pay for Watson’s crimes when every other mediocre at best QB is cashing in?

Actually everyone connected to the NFL has voiced that the Watson guaranteed contract is beyond foolish.  Not even considering what a great guy  Watson is. It’s a dreadful contract according to literally any person who follows the NFL from a business perspective. 

[Virgil]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

I don't see where Lamar is being valued less than those guys. At 133 MM fully guaranteed he'd be making more annually and have more guaranteed money, all of which I would think is appropriate. 
Lamar's legitimate play was to ask for a new contract heading into his third year after he won MVP. I don't understand why his agent wasn't jumping up and down. Oh wait...

Apparently a great guy but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. 

 

Plus, they offered him a deal that averages 50 mil per year.  If he doesn't get cut, he will see every penny of it.  That's more than a fair deal and you can't blame the Ravens for not wanting to protect themselves from a guy who's missed 40% of the games his past two seasons.  

 

Lamar has proven himself to be a me guy and had this plan all along.  

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

The longer this goes on, the more the Ravens better hope someone with a top 10 pick signs him to an offer sheet or they will be going into next season with 2TD Huntley

I think he will get the tag of $32ish unless he sits out? So then for 2 straight years LJ will have given away let’s say $42m a year less what he will have earned for the past two years.

[JoPoy88]

7 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I don't see where Lamar is being valued less than those guys. At 133 MM fully guaranteed he'd be making more annually and have more guaranteed money, all of which I would think is appropriate. 
Lamar's legitimate play was to ask for a new contract heading into his third year after he won MVP. I don't understand why his agent wasn't jumping up and down. Oh wait...

Apparently a great guy but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. 

don’t think that was an option under the rules bud. Drafted rookies have to wait until after their 3rd season to start to negotiate a new deal (as I understand it.)

 

EDIT:

”Renegotiations: Rookie contracts for drafted players can't be renegotiated or altered in any way until after the last regular-season game of the third contracted year. Undrafted rookies must wait until after their second season to amend a contract. Any rookie contract that is renegotiated or extended in any way is no longer considered a rookie contract and is not restricted by the rules governing such contracts.”

 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/2023-nfl-free-agency-explainer-vital-information-on-franchise-tags-contract-term

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by JoPoy88

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is an interesting point. Yes, everything we know got leaked by someone. (Whatever they offered was just that, a first offer, but I digress.) NOT having a qualified agent does not allow for the game to play out as it usually does in the real world. I’d like his chances more with better representation. 

 

The Ravens are a well run organization that seems to have smart people at the helm. The player, in this case, seems to be the wrinkle. 

I think we will see some other QBs ask for the same guarantees soon. No team wants to be the second one to give in to that though and the Ravens were in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[Billl]

$133 million guaranteed simply isn’t in line with the market for a QB of his level.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34096853/highest-paid-nfl-players-tracking-most-money-guaranteed-per-year-every-position

[Augie]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

I think we will see some other QBs ask for the same guarantees soon. No team wants to be the second one to give in to that though and the Ravens were in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

 

They won’t be the second. Kirk Cousins got 3 years fully guaranteed, but he wasn’t a pinball playing QB. I don’t like either, TBH. The Ravens are being the Ravens, playing it smart. 

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

This is an interesting point. Yes, everything we know got leaked by someone. (Whatever they offered was just that, a first offer, but I digress.) NOT having a qualified agent does not allow for the game to play out as it usually does in the real world. I’d like his chances more with better representation. 

 

The Ravens are a well run organization that seems to have smart people at the helm. The player, in this case, seems to be the wrinkle. 

I think they most certainly were a well run org when Newsom was calling all the operational shots. Not sure that’s so true now with DeCosta. (Yes I know Newsom is still there at the VP level.)

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

don’t think that was an option under the rules bud. Drafted rookies have to wait until after their 3rd season to start to negotiate a new deal (as I understand it.)

 

Correct.  That is why Josh and almost every franchise QB (not named Dak) gets signed just before their 4th season.

One thing that is good about that is it helps the team with the contract dollars and signing bonus.

 

That is when Lamar should have worked out a contract.  His worth was at the highest then.  The injuries have hurt his position now.

[Billl]

Ravens are 45-16 with Lamar starting.  They’re 4-8 without him.  

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

Nobody would be complaining about Watson’s contract if he was balling out.  It’s a bad contract because he’s been a disaster on and off the field.  Lamar has been great on and off the field.  Why should he pay for Watson’s crimes when every other mediocre at best QB is cashing in?

 

But to be fair, Lamar certainly could have cashed in himself. Ravens offered him a pretty fair offer (even though their timing and way was handled could have been better). But he might just want out of Baltimore also

[Billl]

14 minutes ago, Augie said:

The Ravens are a well run organization that seems to have smart people at the helm. The player, in this case, seems to be the wrinkle. 

They’re so well run that they’re 4-8 when Lamar doesn’t play.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Billl

[QLBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I think we will see some other QBs ask for the same guarantees soon. No team wants to be the second one to give in to that though and the Ravens were in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Plenty of teams are giving out QB guarantees… but nothing close to 100%