PSA: This is Sean McDermott's defense, not Leslie Frazier's

[QB Bills]

I know everyone is still upset about that no-show against Cincinnati but what is going on with this fire Leslie Frazier movement? Don't know whether he's a good coordinator or not, but I've come to realize that his best quality is to take bullets for his incompetent boss.

 

Do fans not realize that McDermott is running the show on that side of the ball? Can you imagine if the Chiefs' offense continually crapped the bed in the playoffs and people said "you know who needs to go? Bienemy. He's really making Andy Reid look bad." Would anyone take that person seriously?

[LeGOATski]

When the defense was looking phenomenal in the regular season, McD gave all credit to Frazier and said it's Frazier's defense. I don't think Frazier can take credit when things are going great and not take blame when things go badly.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I know everyone is still upset about that no-show against Cincinnati but what is going on with this fire Leslie Frazier movement? Don't know whether he's a good coordinator or not, but I've come to realize that his best quality is to take bullets for his incompetent boss.

 

Do fans not realize that McDermott is running the show on that side of the ball? Can you imagine if the Chiefs' offense continually crapped the bed in the playoffs and people said "you know who needs to go? Bienemy. He's really making Andy Reid look bad." Would anyone take that person seriously?

 

 

The defense lost half of their starters, leaning far towards the best players.

 

Yet they still managed to get 4th in defensive DVOA, 2nd in points allowed and 1st in yards allowed against a tough schedule of offenses. They throttled the Chiefs early in the year when still healthy.

 

So, yeah, it's McDermott's structure and Frazier does the detail work, and that means you can't give Frazier most of the credit.

 

But far from being incompetent, both Frazier and McDermott look really good once again when you look at how well that decimated defense did. (Very well.)

 

Can't imagine Frazier will be fired, though anything is possible.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Thurman#1

[MJS]

Both McDermott and Frazier claim that the defense is Fraziers. Frazier is also the assistant head coach. Frazier also calls plays for the defense.

 

It's pretty clear that Frazier runs the defense besides those few games that McDermott temporarily took away playcall duties (usually with great results, mind you).

 

Now, I'm sure McDemott is involved in game planning and he helped structure the scheme, and he probably gives some orders in key situations on game days, like every head coach.

 

Frazier is the defensive coordinator and fully operates as one. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

[MJS]

4 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I know everyone is still upset about that no-show against Cincinnati but what is going on with this fire Leslie Frazier movement? Don't know whether he's a good coordinator or not, but I've come to realize that his best quality is to take bullets for his incompetent boss.

 

Do fans not realize that McDermott is running the show on that side of the ball? Can you imagine if the Chiefs' offense continually crapped the bed in the playoffs and people said "you know who needs to go? Bienemy. He's really making Andy Reid look bad." Would anyone take that person seriously?

Yeah, McDermott is so incompetent:

 

Defensive rankings:

2019: 2nd

2020: 16th

2021: 1st

2022: 2nd

 

Win Loss record:

2019: 10-6

2020: 13-3

2021: 11-6

2022: 13-3

 

Best win percentage in franchise history. 4th best win percentage in the NFL currently. 21st all time in NFL history and ahead of coaches like Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Sean McVay, John Harbaugh, Pete Carrol, etc. (Just needs to get his superbowl like they have)

 

He is among the league leaders in following analytics and being appropriately aggressive on offense.

 

It's just so clear that he is a high quality head coach. He needs to get over the hump in the playoffs, but if we move on from him, it will not be good. And he will get scooped up immediately to be head coach of another team. And he'll probably turn around that team too.

[Billsfan1972]

Okay I'm a Bills fan and yes I watch a lot of football I only get wrapped up here.

 

We all saw what happened vs. Cincy and it was not pretty. 

 

The playoffs are a different beast and all year we saw the warts on the defense and yes injuries played a significant factor, but to be swiss cheese regardless of who is put out there is unacceptable. 

 

Let's not forget Cincy was missing 3 OL and did whatever they wanted.  They could have put up 40 if they needed to.

 

Bills fans know that they got lucky with Allen and he has become a QB beyond probably their expectations and they haven't done enough for him on that side of the ball, because this is essentially McD's team.

 

McD is a Defence first coach and spent the money there and constructed a defense that he and Frazier have run for years.

 

They have been terrible the last 4 playoff losses and really played what amounts to 3 decent games in the playoffs (Jax, Baltimore & NE).  

 

They have been terrible the last 3 and this is their philosophy on D.  Bend, don't break and hope for a mistake (fumble, tipped pass....).  They have allowed 29,29 & 30 First downs to opponents a ridiculously high #.

 

And no I will not forget 13 seconds, where two masterminds completely blew it.

[Doc Brown]

It's all on McDermott when it comes to defense.  It's his specialty.  He could've taken over play calling at any time during the Bengals game.  Firing Frazier would have been a save your own butt type move.  I'm in the minority when I say I'm glad he didn't.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, McDermott is so incompetent:

 

Defensive rankings:

2019: 2nd

2020: 16th

2021: 1st

2022: 2nd

 

 

So then why does it plummet in the playoffs to what would essentially rank last?  ... 32nd that is. 

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So then why does it plummet in the playoffs to what would essentially rank last?  ... 32nd that is. 

We know the answer and it has been discussed ad-nauseum.  Good QB's will do well against the Bills.  The problem is the other side of the ball too has been exposed to being essentially Allen & Diggs.  Big plays from others seldom happen.  For some reason too, Allen didn't run as the season wound down and Dorsey's scheme's were way too easy to defend.

 

As i stated over & over as bad as the defense was vs. Cincy, the Bills had first down at their 39 yard line with 1:00 left the first half and the second half kick.  Dorsey had nothing dialed up and the game was lost there.  

 

Simply if they were 17-17 or 21-17 (they were remember first & goal to start the third) maybe then we'd have had the shootout expected, but sadly it was the offense that let them down there.

 

And Allen hides all the flaws on the defense because he's gone essentially 11-5, 13-3, 11-6 & 13-3. 

[Man with No Name]

even if it is mcdermott's d, he needs a new person to put his mind together with. I believe it is ultimately mcdermott's fault, but he is a good leader of men, so he stays and continues to lead. He needs to do a better job of filling the gaps on Xs and Os

[TheBeaneBandit]

Well whoever's defense it is it's not championship caliber that's for sure. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Both McDermott and Frazier claim that the defense is Fraziers. Frazier is also the assistant head coach. Frazier also calls plays for the defense.

 

It's pretty clear that Frazier runs the defense besides those few games that McDermott temporarily took away playcall duties (usually with great results, mind you).

 

Now, I'm sure McDemott is involved in game planning and he helped structure the scheme, and he probably gives some orders in key situations on game days, like every head coach.

 

Frazier is the defensive coordinator and fully operates as one. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

I guess neither of them sees any problem with how the defense under-performs its regular season stats in the playoffs or folds in critical situations in those games.  The excuse is execution.  Maybe so but its still not getting the job done.

One of them has to acknowledge there's a problem which requires both the HC and DC to address.  Leslie has to be fully aware these gaffes and underwhelming efforts are costing him any chance of becoming an NFL head coach again.  So not installing some changes or tweaks to the scheme and play calling or the amount of input Leslie gets in personal and draft decisions makes no sense from that view.   

Edited February 3, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I know everyone is still upset about that no-show against Cincinnati but what is going on with this fire Leslie Frazier movement? Don't know whether he's a good coordinator or not, but I've come to realize that his best quality is to take bullets for his incompetent boss.

 

Do fans not realize that McDermott is running the show on that side of the ball? Can you imagine if the Chiefs' offense continually crapped the bed in the playoffs and people said "you know who needs to go? Bienemy. He's really making Andy Reid look bad." Would anyone take that person seriously?

I could imagine if bienemy was calling plays that there could be a half measure of removing him even if there’s a question of why more wasn’t done by Reid in the moment for the moment during a collapse 

[MJS]

37 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

So then why does it plummet in the playoffs to what would essentially rank last?  ... 32nd that is. 

How could it plummet to 32nd in the playoffs when there are only 14 teams in the playoffs?

[McBean]

This is not only his defense, but his entire organization.

 

He’s the Czar.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I know everyone is still upset about that no-show against Cincinnati but what is going on with this fire Leslie Frazier movement? Don't know whether he's a good coordinator or not, but I've come to realize that his best quality is to take bullets for his incompetent boss.

 

Do fans not realize that McDermott is running the show on that side of the ball? Can you imagine if the Chiefs' offense continually crapped the bed in the playoffs and people said "you know who needs to go? Bienemy. He's really making Andy Reid look bad." Would anyone take that person seriously?

There’s definitely some truth to this because if it was just Frazier D he would’ve been fired along time ago. 

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I guess neither of them sees any problem with how the defense under-performs its regular season stats in the playoffs or folds in critical situations in those games.  The excuse is execution.  Maybe so but its still not getting the job done.

One of them has to acknowledge there's a problem which requires both the HC and DC to address.  Leslie has to be fully aware these gaffes and underwhelming efforts are costing him any chance of becoming an NFL head coach again.  So not installing some changes or tweaks to the scheme and play calling or the amount of input Leslie gets in personal and draft decisions makes no sense from that view.   

Frankly, I don't care what the coaches say to the media. Never have and never will. If you are waiting for coaches to tell you the complete and honest truth through the media, you'll be waiting for a long time. If they are not willing to address it behind closed doors though, yes, that's a problem. But fans are not privy to those conversations.

 

But we do know that McDermott has taken play calling away from Frazier in the past. McDermott knows when it is Frazier's fault and when he needs to step in versus when it is the fault of mental errors by the players themselves.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

We know the answer and it has been discussed ad-nauseum.  Good QB's will do well against the Bills. 

 

So in essence you're saying that once we get to the playoffs, we can't stop a cold.  

 

Unfortunately that doesn't carry much water.  We've allowed 31 ppg in our last 5 playoff games.  Against some of the same teams, here are the point totals allowed by the winning teams in the last 10 playoff games this season alone: 

 

17, 24, 14, 20, 7, 10, 12, 20, and 7.  

 

So for some reason all the teams ranked lower than us in defense during the season, somehow, managed to do what we're incapable of doing, ... against the same "good QBs."  

 

Does that make sense to you?   

 

Once again, it has coaching written all over it to me.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

3 minutes ago, McBean said:

This is not only his defense, but his entire organization.

 

He’s the Czar.

This is definitely the #1 problem in the organization czar type coaches hardly ever win anything. 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

How could it plummet to 32nd in the playoffs when there are only 14 teams in the playoffs?

 

Seriously?  It plummets to what would rank DFL in the NFL during the regular season.  

 

There's a reason for it, because it seems to be unique to us.  Imagine if our offense did the same.  

Edited February 3, 2023 by PBF81

[MJS]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There’s definitely some truth to this because if it was just Frazier D he would’ve been fired along time ago. 

Really? He has one of the best statistical defenses in the league over the past 4 seasons.

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

Seriously?  It plummets to what would rank DFL in the NFL during the regular season.  

These are just childish takes that are impossible to support with any kind of facts.

[Jrb1979]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, McDermott is so incompetent:

 

Defensive rankings:

2019: 2nd

2020: 16th

2021: 1st

2022: 2nd

 

Win Loss record:

2019: 10-6

2020: 13-3

2021: 11-6

2022: 13-3

 

Best win percentage in franchise history. 4th best win percentage in the NFL currently. 21st all time in NFL history and ahead of coaches like Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Sean McVay, John Harbaugh, Pete Carrol, etc. (Just needs to get his superbowl like they have)

 

He is among the league leaders in following analytics and being appropriately aggressive on offense.

 

It's just so clear that he is a high quality head coach. He needs to get over the hump in the playoffs, but if we move on from him, it will not be good. And he will get scooped up immediately to be head coach of another team. And he'll probably turn around that team too.

What if this the best he is. He is great for getting a team back to regular success but I'm not so sure he has what it takes to get much better. 

 

I look at McDermott like the NHLs Bruce Boudreau. Great coach that has great regular season success but can't get over the hump in the playoffs. 

 

IMO those that don't want to change much are afraid they regress back to the drought days. If he doesn't get over the hump next season they have to clean house

[Chaos]

49 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So in essence you're saying that once we get to the playoffs, we can't stop a cold.  

 

Unfortunately that doesn't carry much water.  We've allowed 31 ppg in our last 5 playoff games.  Against some of the same teams, here are the point totals allowed by the winning teams in the last 10 playoff games this season alone: 

 

17, 24, 14, 20, 7, 10, 12, 20, and 7.  

 

So for some reason all the teams ranked lower than us in defense during the season, somehow, managed to do what we're incapable of doing, ... against the same "good QBs."  

 

Does that make sense to you?   

 

Once again, it has coaching written all over it to me.  

If the information in this post is accurate, it is compelling, and is something the media should specifically be asking the Bills GM about. 

[MJS]

9 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

What if this the best he is. He is great for getting a team back to regular success but I'm not so sure he has what it takes to get much better. 

 

I look at McDermott like the NHLs Bruce Boudreau. Great coach that has great regular season success but can't get over the hump in the playoffs. 

 

IMO those that don't want to change much are afraid they regress back to the drought days. If he doesn't get over the hump next season they have to clean house

That's what everyone said about Andy Reid.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

It's just so clear that he is a high quality head coach. He needs to get over the hump in the playoffs, but if we move on from him, it will not be good. And he will get scooped up immediately to be head coach of another team. And he'll probably turn around that team too.

 

Without Josh Allen?

 

Let's be real here... the Bills are winning those many games because of Josh. Put McDermott on the Titans or the Jets or the Giants and he's not even CLOSE to winning the same amount of games. Josh Allen is getting run into the ground and it is the poor PLAYOFF performance that is the issue here as well... and we are not seeing any improvement. 

[MJS]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Without Josh Allen?

 

Let's be real here... the Bills are winning those many games because of Josh. Put McDermott on the Titans or the Jets or the Giants and he's not even CLOSE to winning the same amount of games. Josh Allen is getting run into the ground and it is the poor PLAYOFF performance that is the issue here as well... and we are not seeing any improvement. 

McDermott took the Bills to the playoffs his first year with a crap team and crap QB.

[Jrb1979]

52 minutes ago, MJS said:

Really? He has one of the best statistical defenses in the league over the past 4 seasons.

These are just childish takes that are impossible to support with any kind of facts.

Regular season and playoffs are two different things. Their defense works in the regular season cause they play more average offenses then really good ones.

 

Their defense philosophy is based on teams making long drives to score and wait for mistakes. Against good or elite offenses they tend not to make that many mistakes. 

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's what everyone said about Andy Reid.

Difference is Reid still got to a Super Bowl with his first team. It wasn't til his second team that he figured it out. 

[MJS]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

Regular season and playoffs are two different things. Their defense works in the regular season cause they play more average offenses then really good ones.

 

Their defense philosophy is based on teams making long drives to score and wait for mistakes. Against good or elite offenses they tend not to make that many mistakes. 

They beat the Chiefs in the regular season. They have quality performances in the regular season too.

 

Hey, I'm not saying there isn't anything to fix. They need to evolve for sure. I've said I would be happy to move on from Frazier and inject some new life into the defense. Clearly something needs to change to get over the hump in the playoffs.

 

Moving on from McDermott is not the answer. That would be a disaster, in my opinion.

[Einstein]

I have a very good friend who is a Panthers fans. He told me the same thing. Frazier and McD are very alike in the way they run their defense and firing Frazier likely does little to change anything.

[SoCal Deek]

So if I understand the point of this thread correctly, the Bills are just two or three highly drafted defensive linemen away from winning the Super Bowl? Fabulous! 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

They beat the Chiefs in the regular season. They have quality performances in the regular season too.

 

Hey, I'm not saying there isn't anything to fix. They need to evolve for sure. I've said I would be happy to move on from Frazier and inject some new life into the defense. Clearly something needs to change to get over the hump in the playoffs.

 

Moving on from McDermott is not the answer. That would be a disaster, in my opinion.

Its still regular season. They haven't shown the ability to rise up to the level required to win in the playoffs. I know why many are worried if McDermott leaves that the drought days will return.  IMO many fans are just happy to see success. 

 

If he doesn't get past the Division round again then he has to go. They need a more offensive minded coach. It's the way the league is heading. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Really? He has one of the best statistical defenses in the league over the past 4 seasons.

 

What award do we get for that?

 

The regular season accolades are getting old when the defense is abused in the playoffs year after year.

 

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

If the information in this post is accurate, it is compelling, and is something the media should specifically be asking the Bills GM about. 

This year (Bills included 31 vs. Miami).

 

Losing team 30, 23, 31, 17, 24, 14, 20, 7, 10, 20, 7 

 

2021

Losing Team 17, 19, 21, 17, 15, 11, 16, 10, 36 (Bills), 27, 24, 17, 20

 

2020

Losing Team 24 (Indy vs. Bills), 20, 23, 37, 9, 13, 18, 3 (Ravens vs. Bills), 17, 20, 24, 26, 9

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

Frazier and McDermotts D is near identical in practical application, the buck stops at McDermotts desk, it has been four seasons of no effective adjustments on the D when the opponent shows that they have your scheme figured out. That shows a noticeable unwillingness to adapt and grow in one’s craft by our coaches. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

When the defense was looking phenomenal in the regular season, McD gave all credit to Frazier and said it's Frazier's defense. I don't think Frazier can take credit when things are going great and not take blame when things go badly.

 

McDermott is displaying servant leadership in that instance. It is leadership 101 and fits with his Toyota management system. A servant leader always praises those below them and deflects criticism from them when it does not.

McDermott is a fine person and he has good leadership qualities.  He's just not a good enough coach to be beat the best.  Both statements can be true without any malice.

[MJS]

18 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Its still regular season. They haven't shown the ability to rise up to the level required to win in the playoffs. I know why many are worried if McDermott leaves that the drought days will return.  IMO many fans are just happy to see success. 

 

If he doesn't get past the Division round again then he has to go. They need a more offensive minded coach. It's the way the league is heading. 

They have had success in the playoffs too. They've won about half their playoff games. Yes, they need to get over the hump of beating the highest tier teams in the playoffs. That's easier said than done, though. You don't fire your coach because he can't beat a top 3-4 NFL team consistently.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Just now, MJS said:

They have had success in the playoffs too. They've won about half their playoff games. Yes, they need to get over the hump of beating the highest tier teams in the playoffs. That's easier said than done, though. You don't fire your coach because he can't beat a top 3-4 NFL team consistently.

 

I don't think any Eagles fans regret firing Andy Reid and he had way more playoff success in Philly than McD has had here. 

 

[MJS]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What award do we get for that?

 

The regular season accolades are getting old when the defense is abused in the playoffs year after year.

No award, but the post I responded to said that Frazier should have been fired a long time ago, and I just pointed out that it is rare to fire a coach with such good regular season results.

 

And I'm one who has been calling to replace Frazier too. But it isn't surprising that he has been retained given the excellent regular season results.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

41 minutes ago, MJS said:

McDermott took the Bills to the playoffs his first year with a crap team and crap QB.

 

What's the difference?

 

He made CHANGES ON OFFENSE... when we had problems scoring, he brought in Daboll and cleaned house. So now that our defense is a major problem against top teams, I don't see those changes. That's complacency and it's not going to get us to where we want to be,

[MJS]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

What's the difference?

 

He made CHANGES ON OFFENSE... when we had problems scoring, he brought in Daboll and cleaned house. So now that our defense is a major problem against top teams, I don't see those changes. That's complacency and it's not going to get us to where we want to be,

I agree. The defense needs to evolve. I'm all for bringing in a new coordinator. But it is different, because those offenses before Daboll were horrible in the regular season. It will turn a lot of heads if you fire your defensive coordinator after having the #2 ranked defense, especially given all the injuries and turmoil.

 

If Frazier can't breath new life into the defense next year, and McDermott is still unwilling to make changes, we have a problem. McDermott has shown willingness to progress and evolve in the past, though. Let's hope he can continue to do that.