Who are Sean McDermott's peers?

[Chaos]

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll

3) Campbell

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

Edited February 1, 2023 by Chaos

[US Egg]

Other HC’s.

[MJS]

I think McVay is too high. His luster has worn off for me.

 

I also think you have Saleh and McDaniels too high.

 

But I think you have McDermott in the right place. He is in that 5 to 10 range. Good coach.

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, Chaos said:

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel

3) Campbell, Daboll

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

Pretty good list.  I don’t think McDaniel or Saleh have done anything to deserve being ranked ahead of Daboll, and Stefanski is too high, but other than that, it looks about right.

[Gregg]

Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there.

[NewEra]

Pretty good list.  Except-  saleh and mcdaniel ahead of Daboll?  Please explain. 
 

I also think Mcvay, sirianni and Taylor are a notch too high but understand why you’d place them there.  
 

also-  who is Peterson?  I assume you mean Pederson who you also listed?  I’d also put pederson up a notch.  

Edited February 1, 2023 by NewEra

[B-Large]

McDermott looks different with guys like McDaniels, Daboll, Phillips, Fangio, Evero as his supporting cast.  

 

Dorsey and Frazier are merely pedestrian, with the former maybe a little worse than....

 

If I were him, I'd want much more out of my staff than I'm currently getting...

Edited February 1, 2023 by B-Large

[Einstein]

Daboll led a terrible roster to a divisional game. Not sure how you can put him that low.

 

My list

 

 

1) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan

2) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, McVay

3) McDermott, Carroll, Daboll, Harbaugh, Peterson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

4 Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Campbell

[damj]

=

 

 

Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, damj said:

=

 

 

Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship

Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 

[rm -rf /*]

3 minutes ago, damj said:

=

 

 

Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship

 

He is nowhere near the Marty Chokenheimer level.  Trust me, I have an large extended family of Queef's fan.  He may be a burgeoning Chokenheimer comparison but he has many years to go yet.

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve.  

 It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers.  I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. 

I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner.  There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm.  And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. 

 

Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs.  I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year.  I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success.   Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones.  My take on the top tier is that it is 

 

1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay

1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh

2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin,  Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur

2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel

3) Campbell, Daboll

everyone else below that. 

I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct.  But I am curious  what others think.  I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible)

I don't think Taylor is in the 1B category.....for a portion of last year there was a lot of talk that he was going to get fired at the end of the year.  They then went on their run and had a better year this year, but he was not doing well for a very long time

[damj]

42 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 

 

45 minutes ago, damj said:

=<

 

 

Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship

At least Levy could get to a Superbowl

[GerstAusGosheim]

None of the other coaches made the colossal mistakes of trading away the Mahomes pick and blowing 13 seconds, so it's really hard to compare. The 17-year playoff drought warped peoples brains into thinking this is even remotely acceptable.

[BuffaloRebound]

Guys who’ve won Super Bowls are absolutely higher than McDermott.  That’s 8 guys including Sean Payton.  I think I’d put guys like Taylor and Sirianni higher than mcdermott because they’ve made a Super Bowl.  definitely shanahan too.  That puts mcdermott around 12th.  

 

[beebe]

TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 

 

1. Belichick

2. Reid

 

TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team.

 

3. Carroll

4. Tomlin

5. Payton

6. Harbaugh

 

TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list

 

7. Shanahan

8. Vrabel

9. McVay

10. McDermott

11. Pederson

 

TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys

 

12. Daboll

13. McDaniel

14. Taylor

15. Sirianni

 

TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 

 

16. LaFleur

17. Reich

18. Rivera

19. McCarthy

 

TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed

 

20. Stefanski

21. O'Connell

22. Campbell

23. Saleh

24. Ryans

25. Eberflus

 

TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches

 

26. Vacant

27. Vacant

 

TIER 8 - I've seen enough

 

28. Staley

29. Smith

30. Bowles

31. Allen

32. McDaniels

 

[The Jokeman]

24 minutes ago, damj said:

 

At least Levy could get to a Superbowl

Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. 

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. 

 

He would need an OL as well. Those 90's teams had a much better OL led by Kent Hull then what they have now.

8 minutes ago, beebe said:

TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 

 

1. Belichick

2. Reid

 

TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team.

 

3. Carroll

4. Tomlin

5. Payton

6. Harbaugh

 

TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list

 

7. Shanahan

8. Vrabel

9. McVay

10. McDermott

11. Pederson

 

TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys

 

12. Daboll

13. McDaniel

14. Taylor

15. Sirianni

 

TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 

 

16. LaFleur

17. Reich

18. Rivera

19. McCarthy

 

TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed

 

20. Stefanski

21. O'Connell

22. Campbell

23. Saleh

24. Ryans

25. Eberflus

 

TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches

 

26. Vacant

27. Vacant

 

TIER 8 - I've seen enough

 

28. Staley

29. Smith

30. Bowles

31. Allen

32. McDaniels

 

 

If he were still coaching in the league, I don't think Adam Gase would even make it to your Tier 8.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

BillieBilliams, Process, McBean, PrimeTime101.

*
Oh, 'peers'.  I looked quickly, and read it as 'pee-ers'.

[Royale with Cheese]

37 minutes ago, damj said:

 

At least Levy could get to a Superbowl

 

It took Levy 5 years to get to a Super Bowl with 5 Hall of Famers and about another 4-5 All Pros.  

[Nextmanup]

I have no idea how you are guys are ranking head coaches.  What criteria are you using?  What functions do you think are the most important of a head coach?  

 

For me, McDermott is very average.  He should probably be ranked 15th or something like that.

 

The people who have made lists have him way higher than that.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

36 minutes ago, damj said:

 

At least Levy could get to a Superbowl

After 10 years/two teams….

 

And then he’d get there and repeatedly blow it in increasingly spectacular fashion… 

 

good comp!

[Gregg]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

After 10 years/two teams….

 

And then he’d get there and repeatedly blow it in increasingly spectacular fashion… 

 

good comp!

 

To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help.

Exactly great coaches win game you aren’t supposed to, not the other way around. 
 

See what Bill B did to get the giants across the line as a DC even. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Exactly great coaches win game you aren’t supposed to, not the other way around. 
 

See what Bill B didn’t to get the giants across the line. 

 

The Giants really didn't stop the Bills. OJ Anderson and the Giants hogging the ball for 40 minutes was the real problem. If that sack Bruce had in the endzone turned out to be a TD instead of a safety that would have changed everything. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I actually think Rivera is his best comp.  When Newton was a top 5 QB, Carolina was in the playoffs every year and even made a Super Bowl.  McDermott has a top 5 QB.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Giants really didn't stop the Bills. OJ Anderson and the Giants hogging the ball for 40 minutes was the real problem. If that sack Bruce had in the endzone turned out to be a TD instead of a safety that would have changed everything. 

nonsense- they punted 5 or 6 times!

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I actually think Rivera is his best comp.  When Newton was a top 5 QB, Carolina was in the playoffs every year and even made a Super Bowl.  McDermott has a top 5 QB.  

Allen and Newton per game averages are eerily similar. And they asked Cam to do everything on offense too… until he aged to where he couldn’t 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Thurman#1]

Think you're really kidding yourself about 80%.

 

Even QB - GM - Coach isn't 80%. With GM more important than coach.

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I don't think Taylor is in the 1B category.....for a portion of last year there was a lot of talk that he was going to get fired at the end of the year.  They then went on their run and had a better year this year, but he was not doing well for a very long time

He was hired in 2019, what are you talking about?

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help.

I agree. Washington & Dallas were power teams and as we are now, the 90's team was all finesse.  When do we get a power, physically dominating team?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I have no idea how you are guys are ranking head coaches.  What criteria are you using?  What functions do you think are the most important of a head coach?  

 

For me, McDermott is very average.  He should probably be ranked 15th or something like that.

 

The people who have made lists have him way higher than that.

 

 

And on top of what you said, is this ranking by greatest résumés overall or current ability? 
 

If the latter, then I’m not sure Belichick is in Tier 1 anymore. 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Pretty good list.  Except-  saleh and mcdaniel ahead of Daboll?  Please explain. 
 

I also think Mcvay, sirianni and Taylor are a notch too high but understand why you’d place them there.  
 

also-  who is Peterson?  I assume you mean Pederson who you also listed?  I’d also put pederson up a notch.  

I place a high level of importance on the post season.  McDaniel as a rookie head coach went deep into his first playoff game against an experienced playoff team and one of the NFL's top 3 QBs, with a third string QB, and nearly prevailed.  His first year turnaround before that was remarkable.  As a game day coach in the three games against the Bills, I thought he called a better game than McDermott.   Saleh gets his props for having a team that competed almost every week, without having any QB who appeared to be a legit NFL QB.  If you think the QB deficiency is Saleh's fault, then he should be massively downgraded.  I thought Daboll did a fine job, and probably should be ranked on the same tier as them.  I edited my original post to reflect that. 

[Billsfan1972]

I don't know a coach that gets more credit and less blame then McD.  I swear he is teflon.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I don't know a coach that gets more credit and less blame then McD.  I swear he is teflon.

I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are.  But the team won 14 games. 

[RG Murdock]

Who knows who McDermott's peers are? All I know is I'm tired of his boring and embarrassing main mantra of "Humble & Hungry". Frankly I'm sure the players are embarrassed at this mission statement as well. Sounds like some religious school's value statement. I'd rather have my NFL teams mantra be - "Troublemakers & Trophy's" or "Suspects & Super Bowls" or "Beane's & Bowl's. This is football not Curling. McDermott's weak, and this team lacks toughness. That's their biggest problem, but no one seems to notice!! Digg's is the only player with moxy.            

[LABILLBACKER]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are.  But the team won 14 games. 

Josh won 14 games.

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are.  But the team won 14 games. 

McCarthy won 13 (backup for 5 games), Kevin O'Connell won 12, Sirriani 17......    

 

As said I really don't know what to think of McD, but I want the Bills to win the SB in 2023/24.

[Chaos]

Two case studies they don’t usually make it into the coaches discussion.  Should Shula have been kept as coach doe Marinos entire career? And did Jerry Jones make the right decision to fire Tom Landry?

[ArtVandalay]

His peers are:

 

-Matt LeFluer

-Ron Rivera

-Mike Zimmer (now work coach prime in Colorado)

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

6 hours ago, Gregg said:

Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there.

YE OLE concurs, my good fellow!

 

Tomlin takes a lot of flack for his in game decisions around punting and so forth (deservedly so), but he sure gets a lot of his teams. Earlier this year when the Steelers fell to 3-7 it was a done deal that his streak of winning seasons was over.  Unbelievable to get that team to 9-8 from that spot.