Chaos Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Pederson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Daboll 3) Campbell everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) Edited February 1, 2023 by Chaos 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Other HC’s. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I think McVay is too high. His luster has worn off for me. I also think you have Saleh and McDaniels too high. But I think you have McDermott in the right place. He is in that 5 to 10 range. Good coach. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chaos said: My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel 3) Campbell, Daboll everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) Pretty good list. I don’t think McDaniel or Saleh have done anything to deserve being ranked ahead of Daboll, and Stefanski is too high, but other than that, it looks about right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there. 5 2 9 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) Pretty good list. Except- saleh and mcdaniel ahead of Daboll? Please explain. I also think Mcvay, sirianni and Taylor are a notch too high but understand why you’d place them there. also- who is Peterson? I assume you mean Pederson who you also listed? I’d also put pederson up a notch. Edited February 1, 2023 by NewEra 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) McDermott looks different with guys like McDaniels, Daboll, Phillips, Fangio, Evero as his supporting cast. Dorsey and Frazier are merely pedestrian, with the former maybe a little worse than.... If I were him, I'd want much more out of my staff than I'm currently getting... Edited February 1, 2023 by B-Large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Daboll led a terrible roster to a divisional game. Not sure how you can put him that low. My list 1) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan 2) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, McVay 3) McDermott, Carroll, Daboll, Harbaugh, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 4 Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel, Campbell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship 2 2 1 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, damj said: = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm -rf /* Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, damj said: = Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship He is nowhere near the Marty Chokenheimer level. Trust me, I have an large extended family of Queef's fan. He may be a burgeoning Chokenheimer comparison but he has many years to go yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Chaos said: My personal opinion is that QB and HC compromise about 80% of the formula to win a championship. These are generally the two positions that allow the rest of the talent to produce at a higher level (or lower level) than they would otherwise achieve. It is a common exercise for people to group QBs into tiers. I think it is widely accepted that Allen, Burrows and Mahomes compromise the top tier of QBs and that everyone else is not at their level. I have not seen people group HCs in a similar manner. There seems to be an argument for Kyle Shanahan being the magic coach of 2023 making it to the championship game with a rookie 7th round draft pick at the helm. And his past success maybe justifies him being in the top tier. Seems like parsing HC's is harder than QBs. I think people separate Aaron Rodgers talent from the team failing to make the playoffs this year. I think people can develop opions about Tua or Deshone Watson independent of their teams success. Not sure it is easy to do the same with HCs. Pretty sure that Bill Belichek, the only current coach with more than one SB Ring, wasn't a doofus carried along by Tom Brady only, and that all of a sudden he sucks because he is saddled with Zac Jones. My take on the top tier is that it is 1A) Reid, Belichek, Shanahan and McVay 1B) Zac Taylor. Nick Siriani, Carroll, Harbaugh 2) McDermott, Peterson, Tomlin, Pederson, Vrabel, Lafleur 2B) Stefanski, Saleh, McDaniel 3) Campbell, Daboll everyone else below that. I am not at all sure my conclusions are correct. But I am curious what others think. I am much more interested overall on where our coaches stack up against the other teams, than how our coaches stack up against past Bills coaching staffs (arguably the lowest bar possible) I don't think Taylor is in the 1B category.....for a portion of last year there was a lot of talk that he was going to get fired at the end of the year. They then went on their run and had a better year this year, but he was not doing well for a very long time 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 42 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Where's Marv Levy in this montage? 45 minutes ago, damj said: =< Good enough to get you to the play-offs ... not good enough to win a championship At least Levy could get to a Superbowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerstAusGosheim Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 None of the other coaches made the colossal mistakes of trading away the Mahomes pick and blowing 13 seconds, so it's really hard to compare. The 17-year playoff drought warped peoples brains into thinking this is even remotely acceptable. 2 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Guys who’ve won Super Bowls are absolutely higher than McDermott. That’s 8 guys including Sean Payton. I think I’d put guys like Taylor and Sirianni higher than mcdermott because they’ve made a Super Bowl. definitely shanahan too. That puts mcdermott around 12th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 1. Belichick 2. Reid TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team. 3. Carroll 4. Tomlin 5. Payton 6. Harbaugh TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list 7. Shanahan 8. Vrabel 9. McVay 10. McDermott 11. Pederson TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys 12. Daboll 13. McDaniel 14. Taylor 15. Sirianni TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 16. LaFleur 17. Reich 18. Rivera 19. McCarthy TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed 20. Stefanski 21. O'Connell 22. Campbell 23. Saleh 24. Ryans 25. Eberflus TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches 26. Vacant 27. Vacant TIER 8 - I've seen enough 28. Staley 29. Smith 30. Bowles 31. Allen 32. McDaniels 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, damj said: At least Levy could get to a Superbowl Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Give McDermott a Thurman Thomas on offense and get back to me. He would need an OL as well. Those 90's teams had a much better OL led by Kent Hull then what they have now. 8 minutes ago, beebe said: TIER 1 - The clear best coaches in the league. 1. Belichick 2. Reid TIER 2 - Super Bowl champions who have had sustained success across 10+ years with the same team. 3. Carroll 4. Tomlin 5. Payton 6. Harbaugh TIER 3 - Coaches who are clearly very good but don't have the same long-term track record as the guys above them on this list 7. Shanahan 8. Vrabel 9. McVay 10. McDermott 11. Pederson TIER 4 - Coaches who are likely very good but don't have the same short-term track record as TIER 3 guys 12. Daboll 13. McDaniel 14. Taylor 15. Sirianni TIER 5 - League average coaches; with an average team, I think they'd lead them to a .500 record. 16. LaFleur 17. Reich 18. Rivera 19. McCarthy TIER 6 - Not sure, larger sample needed 20. Stefanski 21. O'Connell 22. Campbell 23. Saleh 24. Ryans 25. Eberflus TIER 7 - Open vacancy coaches 26. Vacant 27. Vacant TIER 8 - I've seen enough 28. Staley 29. Smith 30. Bowles 31. Allen 32. McDaniels If he were still coaching in the league, I don't think Adam Gase would even make it to your Tier 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 BillieBilliams, Process, McBean, PrimeTime101. * Oh, 'peers'. I looked quickly, and read it as 'pee-ers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, damj said: At least Levy could get to a Superbowl It took Levy 5 years to get to a Super Bowl with 5 Hall of Famers and about another 4-5 All Pros. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I have no idea how you are guys are ranking head coaches. What criteria are you using? What functions do you think are the most important of a head coach? For me, McDermott is very average. He should probably be ranked 15th or something like that. The people who have made lists have him way higher than that. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, damj said: At least Levy could get to a Superbowl After 10 years/two teams…. And then he’d get there and repeatedly blow it in increasingly spectacular fashion… good comp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: After 10 years/two teams…. And then he’d get there and repeatedly blow it in increasingly spectacular fashion… good comp! To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Gregg said: To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help. Exactly great coaches win game you aren’t supposed to, not the other way around. See what Bill B did to get the giants across the line as a DC even. Edited February 1, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Exactly great coaches win game you aren’t supposed to, not the other way around. See what Bill B didn’t to get the giants across the line. The Giants really didn't stop the Bills. OJ Anderson and the Giants hogging the ball for 40 minutes was the real problem. If that sack Bruce had in the endzone turned out to be a TD instead of a safety that would have changed everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I actually think Rivera is his best comp. When Newton was a top 5 QB, Carolina was in the playoffs every year and even made a Super Bowl. McDermott has a top 5 QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Gregg said: The Giants really didn't stop the Bills. OJ Anderson and the Giants hogging the ball for 40 minutes was the real problem. If that sack Bruce had in the endzone turned out to be a TD instead of a safety that would have changed everything. nonsense- they punted 5 or 6 times! 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I actually think Rivera is his best comp. When Newton was a top 5 QB, Carolina was in the playoffs every year and even made a Super Bowl. McDermott has a top 5 QB. Allen and Newton per game averages are eerily similar. And they asked Cam to do everything on offense too… until he aged to where he couldn’t Edited February 1, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Think you're really kidding yourself about 80%. Even QB - GM - Coach isn't 80%. With GM more important than coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said: I don't think Taylor is in the 1B category.....for a portion of last year there was a lot of talk that he was going to get fired at the end of the year. They then went on their run and had a better year this year, but he was not doing well for a very long time He was hired in 2019, what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Gregg said: To be fair the only one the Bills should have won was the Giants game. They were the better team and no had business losing that game. Washington just physically dominated the Bills. Dallas was probably the better team at that time. The 9 turnovers in the first Cowboys game didn't help. I agree. Washington & Dallas were power teams and as we are now, the 90's team was all finesse. When do we get a power, physically dominating team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Nextmanup said: I have no idea how you are guys are ranking head coaches. What criteria are you using? What functions do you think are the most important of a head coach? For me, McDermott is very average. He should probably be ranked 15th or something like that. The people who have made lists have him way higher than that. And on top of what you said, is this ranking by greatest résumés overall or current ability? If the latter, then I’m not sure Belichick is in Tier 1 anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 5 hours ago, NewEra said: Pretty good list. Except- saleh and mcdaniel ahead of Daboll? Please explain. I also think Mcvay, sirianni and Taylor are a notch too high but understand why you’d place them there. also- who is Peterson? I assume you mean Pederson who you also listed? I’d also put pederson up a notch. I place a high level of importance on the post season. McDaniel as a rookie head coach went deep into his first playoff game against an experienced playoff team and one of the NFL's top 3 QBs, with a third string QB, and nearly prevailed. His first year turnaround before that was remarkable. As a game day coach in the three games against the Bills, I thought he called a better game than McDermott. Saleh gets his props for having a team that competed almost every week, without having any QB who appeared to be a legit NFL QB. If you think the QB deficiency is Saleh's fault, then he should be massively downgraded. I thought Daboll did a fine job, and probably should be ranked on the same tier as them. I edited my original post to reflect that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I don't know a coach that gets more credit and less blame then McD. I swear he is teflon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 1, 2023 Author Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: I don't know a coach that gets more credit and less blame then McD. I swear he is teflon. I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are. But the team won 14 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG Murdock Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Who knows who McDermott's peers are? All I know is I'm tired of his boring and embarrassing main mantra of "Humble & Hungry". Frankly I'm sure the players are embarrassed at this mission statement as well. Sounds like some religious school's value statement. I'd rather have my NFL teams mantra be - "Troublemakers & Trophy's" or "Suspects & Super Bowls" or "Beane's & Bowl's. This is football not Curling. McDermott's weak, and this team lacks toughness. That's their biggest problem, but no one seems to notice!! Digg's is the only player with moxy. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chaos said: I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are. But the team won 14 games. Josh won 14 games. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chaos said: I don't exactly know what his game day coaching strengths are. But the team won 14 games. McCarthy won 13 (backup for 5 games), Kevin O'Connell won 12, Sirriani 17...... As said I really don't know what to think of McD, but I want the Bills to win the SB in 2023/24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 Two case studies they don’t usually make it into the coaches discussion. Should Shula have been kept as coach doe Marinos entire career? And did Jerry Jones make the right decision to fire Tom Landry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 His peers are: -Matt LeFluer -Ron Rivera -Mike Zimmer (now work coach prime in Colorado) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 6 hours ago, Gregg said: Tomlin should higher. He won a SB and the Steelers have been competitive almost every year he has been there. YE OLE concurs, my good fellow! Tomlin takes a lot of flack for his in game decisions around punting and so forth (deservedly so), but he sure gets a lot of his teams. Earlier this year when the Steelers fell to 3-7 it was a done deal that his streak of winning seasons was over. Unbelievable to get that team to 9-8 from that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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