safety

[dbfla10]

We all know there are ways around the cap, and the Bills need to figure it out and spend.  CJ Gardner Johnson should be #1 on their list of FA. Obviously let Poyer walk, and get younger (possibly better) with Johnson.

[The Jokeman]

20 hours ago, dbfla10 said:

We all know there are ways around the cap, and the Bills need to figure it out and spend.  CJ Gardner Johnson should be #1 on their list of FA. Obviously let Poyer walk, and get younger (possibly better) with Johnson.

I think Benford is going to get a shot at FS if Poyer leaves and we might also draft a kid in the top 4 Rounds to compete. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by The Jokeman

[RocCityRoller]

I agree S is a need. Mentioned it during and leading to draft last year during a very deep S class.

 

While I don't disagree with the basis of your point, I'd rather spend very limited cap space on known difference makers at positions like WR/ Pass rusher (who is not Methusala) and draft OL/S/RB/CB. Doesn't mean not drafting the other positions, but get known quantities at WR/Edge. This regime does do well with developing DBs if they can play.

 

Hassan Reddick was available for 3/$45 million. Young, proven record of pass rushing. Ironically one of the few former Panthers we didn't get 🤣

Some good mid tier WR (#2 types) became available throughout last season. Claypool/ JuJu etc. Maybe a Brandin Cooks or that type is available this year.

 

Andre Cisco (S- Jax) was taken in the 3rd round 2021 and was establishing himself as an enforcer by the end of the season (2nd season)

[Shaw66]

Hyde and Taron Johnson at safety.  Bedford to slit corner.

[ngbills]

Antonio Johnson in 2nd if he drops. 1st round has to be OL or WR. 

[whorlnut]

I can’t believe we are talking about another DB with yet another top pick after we watched Allen running for his life and throwing to replacement players (beside Diggs) all season. 

[Brandon]

I think I'd rather just bring back Poyer on a one or two year deal if possible and try to kick the can down the road one more year.  Sign Marlowe for at or around the minimum and draft one in R4 or 5. If the draft pick looks like a flop,  address it next year with a higher investment. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Brandon

[somnus00]

Benford. McD and Butler are great at developing DBs. Hyde and Poyer were both former CBs who were moved to safety. Siran may also be moved to safety. They took a look at him there in training camp last year.

[Matt_In_NH]

45 minutes ago, dbfla10 said:

We all know there are ways around the cap, and the Bills need to figure it out and spend.  CJ Gardner Johnson should be #1 on their list of FA. Obviously let Poyer walk, and get younger (possibly better) with Johnson.

The ways around the cap it take more from future years than has already been spent which for the Bills is a lot.   It is not an endless pit of free cap space.   Tough decisions will be made this offseason, now is when you will see the effects.   IMO they are better off getting the cap in a little better spot to have something spend in a future year.  People think the Saints worked some kind of magic potion but the reality is partly how they got out of their jam is by cutting guys they wanted and using void years.   10-15% of their cap in 2024 and 2025 does not exist because it has already been allocated to guys no longer on their team.

[JMM]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hyde and Taron Johnson at safety.  Bedford to slit corner.

Interesting thought. But if they continue the current D with Frazier(please noooo), then Taron is too valuable as the slot corner. Benford makes more sense at safety as McDermott discussed .

[The Jokeman]

9 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

Benford. McD and Butler are great at developing DBs. Hyde and Poyer were both former CBs who were moved to safety. Siran may also be moved to safety. They took a look at him there in training camp last year.

Siran is a horrible DB, personally if he wasn't a gunner on ST I doubt he'd be in the league. 

[somnus00]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Siran is a horrible DB, personally if he wasn't a gunner on ST I doubt he'd be in the league. 

My comment was meant to be predictive. I'm not saying I want Siran at safety.

[RocCityRoller]

38 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t believe we are talking about another DB with yet another top pick after we watched Allen running for his life and throwing to replacement players (beside Diggs) all season. 

This is why I mentioned a S taken in the 3rd. Can find difference makers at S in the 3-4 rounds. One does need to be drafted.

 

Any FA money should be WR/ OL and then double down high up in the draft

[TheyCallMeAndy]

54 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hyde and Taron Johnson at safety.  Bedford to slit corner.

That’s what I’ve been saying, Johnson will be an elite SS. 

[Success]

I like the idea of converting Benford, and getting Marlowe back for depth.  Maybe a mid-rounder too.

 

Poyer is one of my favorite Bills - but he's on the wrong side of 30, and will cost too much.  This is a business.

 

I'm hoping Hamlin plays too, if his health allows & it's safe. He is great depth.

 

[RocCityRoller]

24 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The ways around the cap it take more from future years than has already been spent which for the Bills is a lot.   It is not an endless pit of free cap space.   Tough decisions will be made this offseason, now is when you will see the effects.   IMO they are better off getting the cap in a little better spot to have something spend in a future year.  People think the Saints worked some kind of magic potion but the reality is partly how they got out of their jam is by cutting guys they wanted and using void years.   10-15% of their cap in 2024 and 2025 does not exist because it has already been allocated to guys no longer on their team.

Agreed. part of the tight cap situation this offseason is voidable years chewing up space.

 

As for restructuring to make space, a lot of that was done last offseason. That is how Buffalo got under the cap and were able to sign Von Miller.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

This is why I mentioned a S taken in the 3rd. Can find difference makers at S in the 3-4 rounds. One does need to be drafted.

 

Any FA money should be WR/ OL and then double down high up in the draft

We could also go S on day 3. This is part of the problem with this staff. They like to take rotational players too early. If they nab Benford and Hyde as the starting safeties next year, then it would be beyond stupid to take a safety before day 3, if at all. 

[Sargent Hulka]

I wonder if Terrel Bernard could get a look at safety? Light for a LB, I think with the mobility to close and size, at safety, as well as put a good lick on a receiver, and he's big enough to cover a TE.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sargent Hulka

[Wayne Arnold]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I think Benford is going to get a shot at FS if Hyde leaves and we might also draft a kid in the top 4 Rounds to compete. 

 

Why would Hyde leave? Maybe Benford can bulk up and play SS. Safety is pretty interchangeable in this system anyway.

[Flipnmi]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Why would Hyde leave? Maybe Benford can bulk up and play SS. Safety is pretty interchangeable in this system anyway.

Benford is already 6'0" & 205 lbs, which is bigger than both Hyde & Poyer, so no need to bulk up for the position. I have felt for weeks that this is plan A for Safety next year since he had experience at the position in college and we need to start getting younger there given Hyde & Poyer's age.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That’s what I’ve been saying, Johnson will be an elite SS. 

I agree.  Smart. Excellent tackler.  Solid cover guy.  Hr is a good chess piecce, perfect as a safety.

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Antonio Johnson in 2nd if he drops. 1st round has to be OL or WR. 

 

might not be 1st round WR or OL talent.  If not, I see us trading back to grab several needs:  C/G, WR, S, LB.  

[LifeLongBillsFan]

Pegula could always say the hell with the salary cap and pay the 5m fine.  Love to see what would become of it.  The players were stupid to agree to it in the first place 

[Victory Formation]

I would let Poyer and Hyde walk and I would sign Dean Marlowe as depth and probably draft a guy and sign a guy.

[Nephilim17]

Putting Johnson at safety takes away one of the best slot corners in the league, so that opens another hole. I'd be surprised if they do that, especially considering how much they run the nickel. Yes, the defensive philosophy might change with Frasier or even a new DC but in a pass-driven league, I doubt they shift to a 4-3 base D most of the time.

So for those reasons I think Benford is a more likely candidate for a position change to safety. We'll see...

[RocCityRoller]

4 hours ago, whorlnut said:

We could also go S on day 3. This is part of the problem with this staff. They like to take rotational players too early. If they nab Benford and Hyde as the starting safeties next year, then it would be beyond stupid to take a safety before day 3, if at all. 

Today you can not count on Hyde or Hamlin being available day 1. That is the simple truth.

 

Bills should have drafted a S last year, in a deep S class, with Poyer and Hyde being 1 and 2 years from being 30+ yr old FA.

 

The only way this defensive scheme works is with excellent S play and an effective pass rush.

 

Poyer is sadly probably gone. but he is over 30 and becoming injury prone. Hyde has 1 year left on contract, is 31 and has a spinal injury.

 

Hamlin had a heart attack on the field.

 

How is S not a top 1-2 need???

 

You sound foolish.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

Today you can not count on Hyde or Hamlin being available day 1. That is the simple truth.

 

Bills should have drafted a S last year, in a deep S class, with Poyer and Hyde being 1 and 2 years from being 30+ yr old FA.

 

The only way this defensive scheme works is with excellent S play and an effective pass rush.

 

Poyer is sadly probably gone. but he is over 30 and becoming injury prone. Hyde has 1 year left on contract, is 31 and has a spinal injury.

 

Hamlin had a heart attack on the field.

 

How is S not a top 1-2 need???

 

You sound foolish.

Because you paid your QB 250m with one weapon on offense(at least the only one you use) and two offensive lineman that are above average.

 

That's why.

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Today you can not count on Hyde or Hamlin being available day 1. That is the simple truth.

 

Bills should have drafted a S last year, in a deep S class, with Poyer and Hyde being 1 and 2 years from being 30+ yr old FA.

 

The only way this defensive scheme works is with excellent S play and an effective pass rush.

 

Poyer is sadly probably gone. but he is over 30 and becoming injury prone. Hyde has 1 year left on contract, is 31 and has a spinal injury.

 

Hamlin had a heart attack on the field.

 

How is S not a top 1-2 need???

 

You sound foolish.

Foolish?  How noble of you 

 

Hyde was set to come back this week, but we didn’t make it that far. He will be fine. Benford was a hybrid DB in college…like Hyde. They have already discussed a move to safety. 
 

This fanbase has been trained to think we need to take defense early. We don’t. We can get a safety later on and let McD coach him up as a developmental piece. Heck, poyer and Hyde were both day 3 picks and they turned out pretty good, no?

[947]

CJ Gardner-Johnson is projected at $14M/year on Spotrac, I don't see any way we could do that. Poyer projects at $11M, and even that'd be a stretch.

 

With all the other needs we have, I think we have to go with Benford if Poyer walks.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I was clamoring since the day he was drafted to move Benford to safety. I actually thought they drafted him for that reason. On the coaches for not trying him there earlier. He could have been used a lot late down the stretch. 

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I think Benford is going to get a shot at FS if Hyde leaves and we might also draft a kid in the top 4 Rounds to compete. 

Hyde wont leave but not return his former self. Poyer is gone lets assume
So Bills need TWO starters that can get on the field and run McDs offense right away
Benford might be able to do that. So then we need a backup to him.
 This could be brutal.
Frazier has been a bit spoiled.

[Donuts and Doritos]

WR#2 & O-Line need upgrades are higher priorities than safety. We need Weapons for Josh. Can't keep neglecting the O, like Green Bay has done to Rodgers.

  

Edited January 26, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[RocCityRoller]

13 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Because you paid your QB 250m with one weapon on offense(at least the only one you use) and two offensive lineman that are above average.

 

That's why.

I want 1 WR and one OL in FA.

 

I want 1 WR and one OL in rounds 1 and 2.

 

Round 3 or 4 needs to be a S. This defense crumbles without good S play. I pointed to an example of the type of S you can get in round 3.

Not that hard to see.

 

I wanted a S in round 2 last year to learn from Poyer and Hyde, and get garbage time play in to inherit Poyer's position.

 

Myopic reply.

[boyst]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Hyde and Taron Johnson at safety.  Bedford to slit corner.

Johnson is a solid nickel and one of the top 3 in the league 

[Mark Vader]

6 hours ago, ngbills said:

Antonio Johnson in 2nd if he drops. 1st round has to be OL or WR. 

That would be a long way for him to fall.

[RocCityRoller]

15 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Foolish?  How noble of you 

 

Hyde was set to come back this week, but we didn’t make it that far. He will be fine. Benford was a hybrid DB in college…like Hyde. They have already discussed a move to safety. 
 

This fanbase has been trained to think we need to take defense early. We don’t. We can get a safety later on and let McD coach him up as a developmental piece. Heck, poyer and Hyde were both day 3 picks and they turned out pretty good, no?

OMG you are in your own echo chamber

 

Hyde is not guaranteed to be Hyde next year. He had a spinal injury. (see Aaron Williams) These guys are not robots.

 

Even if Hyde is back 100% he is 31 and on the last year of his contract. Why would you not spend a 3-4th on a young stud S who could learn from him?

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

OMG you are in your own echo chamber

 

Hyde is not guaranteed to be Hyde next year. He had a spinal injury. (see Aaron Williams) These guys are not robots.

 

Even if Hyde is back 100% he is 31 and on the last year of his contract. Why would you not spend a 3-4th on a young stud S who could learn from him?

Why does it have to be a 3 or 4?  Are they the magic rounds for you?  You are acting as if w e don’t get a developmental safety in rounds 3 or 4, then why bother?  It’s a silly stance. McD and his staff can develop DBs better than anyone and successfully converted poyer from a corner to a safety. We can get one on day 3 and develop him behind the starters. 

[RocCityRoller]

22 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Because you paid your QB 250m with one weapon on offense(at least the only one you use) and two offensive lineman that are above average.

 

That's why.

So that means a 3rd this year can't be spent on a S?

 

We just carry on with our mistakes?

 

I want OL and WR in round 1 and 2

I want OL and WR in FA

 

After that S is an important (in this defense) and glaring hole.

 

Who is your starting S tandem next year?

 

Old Spinal injured, 1 year on contract Hyde?

Heart Attack Hamlin?

Was a CB now a S Benford?

 

S is a need on this team. It was last year.

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

So that means a 3rd this year can't be spent on a S?

 

We just carry on with our mistakes?

 

I want OL and WR in round 1 and 2

I want OL and WR in FA

 

After that S is an important (in this defense) and glaring hole.

 

Who is your starting S tandem next year?

 

Old Spinal injured, 1 year on contract Hyde?

Heart Attack Hamlin?

Was a CB now a S Benford?

 

S is a need on this team. It was last year.

They drafted 4 defensive players in round 1 in the last 4 years.

 

The league is all about offense.  What do you think will make this team better, a better offensive line and weapons at WR or one defensive player that will get spot duty like their last 4 defensive players have?

[sven233]

If it's me, I'm telling Benford at his exit interview to be ready to take snaps at FS in training camp.  I've seen enough of Elam to feel comfortable with him coming back next season and immediately slotting in as a full time starter opposite Tre. 

 

Look....I love Poyer and everything he gave to this team as we all do, but there is no way I am signing him to a big contract at his age.  We need to make tough decisions in order to save on cap space and I think Benford could fill the void at S admirably.  In his snaps throughout the first part of the season, he showed that he's smart, can cover fairly well, and is a willing tackler even if he's a bit undersized and slower than the typical CB.  I think he has enough talent to see playing time, but I don't need him rotating with Elam. 

 

This leaves you with Tre, Elam, Johnson, Hyde and Benford as your starting secondary with Jackson slotted in as your primary backup at CB.  You can't have all stars at every position, especially with the cap situation we will be facing, so you have to get creative in spots.  I think Benford is smart enough and has enough physical tools to make a switch to safety work.  Actually thought that when he was drafted as well, but Beane said he wanted to try him at CB first.  I think he did just fine there in his first year, but I think he can make a fine NFL safety.  Then, we'll have to find a replacement for Hyde most likely after next season.  Hyde will be good for Benford to play off of and learn the position from this year for sure, though.