2021 Allen Compared to 2022 Allen

[BuffaloBaumer]

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

[starrymessenger]

He's looking like the 2017 Allen. But he'll be back. 
I'm not one for speculation or conspiracy theories but I must say even as a casual observer that I've noticed his facial expressions when on the side lines and body language are such that I don't remember ever having seen before. He looks confused and somewhat deflated. Not the intangibles we are used to seeing.
Maybe the question is whether this is simply a reaction to poor play or whether it points to another reason that could be a contributing cause and that we as fans at this point have little insight into.

[1onemangang7]

Good thing he's practicing for his future after football. As many hits as he's taking/giving he's gonna be outta here faster than you can say cam newton

[zow2]

2022 Allen looks like a guy that thought he had it all figured out and the game was coming very easy to him...  Now he can't seem to comprehend or adjust that he is the opponents Super Bowl.  These are grown NFL men coming after him.  They just want to crush him and/or bait him into mistakes and turnovers.  Josh can still be Josh,,,,and scramble around.. but sometimes the punt or the FG are better than a risky play and turnover (or turnover on downs).  

[BuffaloBaumer]

The frustrating part to the 2 losses against the Jets and the Vikings is that all he had to do was not make the throw at all and they win both games. It's very hard to figure out from a fan's perspective as we don't know what he is looking at...

[RobbRiddick]

We need Romo to call a Bills game, one in which Josh hurdles

[B-Large]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The frustrating part to the 2 losses against the Jets and the Vikings is that all he had to do was not make the throw at all and they win both games. It's very hard to figure out from a fan's perspective as we don't know what he is looking at...

his competitiveness has become a bit of an Achilles heel.  He’s matured in a lot of ways, but as it stands today his next maturation point is not forcing things that don’t need to be forced.

 

1. Slide instead of doing the acrobatic whirling pretzel routine- there is a place for that, but it happens far to often for my liking.  His ability to run is a big advantage, but it’s also a potential season ender. 

 

2. you’re an elite QB, with an elite roster when healthy- throw the ball away, there will be other opportunities.  We lose games because we try to win with swagger.  Stop doing that *****.  Remember, we still get 3 points on 4th down if we don’t throw it to the other team.  Those add up. 

 

 

[1onemangang7]

You guys should really do something else with your time if you think this teams problems lie with the quarterback. 

[BuffaloBaumer]

3 minutes ago, gridirongold said:

You guys should really do something else with your time if you think this teams problems lie with the quarterback. 

The problem lies with injuries and coaching. You can't be blind to the fact that he has a major int problem this year that is completely avoidable. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by BuffaloBaumer

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, gridirongold said:

You guys should really do something else with your time if you think this teams problems lie with the quarterback. 

Amazing that you could say this with a straight face.

Two interceptions in three straight games. Leads the league in interceptions. Turned the ball over three times yesterday, including a botched QB-center exchange in his own end zone and a boneheaded pick in the red zone in overtime. Has thrown just one touchdown in the past two games. Bills haven't scored a second half touchdown since Kansas City.

Please explain how Josh suddenly becoming a turnover machine ISN'T the problem.

My goodness. 

[SCBills]

I don't know... I go back and forth, but I think we all forget how poorly Josh played in the middle portion of the season last year until Tampa Bay 2nd Half.

 

The difference, to me, is I don't remember Josh having so many throws that literally don't make any sense.  He struggled with the Cover 2 shell teams threw at us - If y'all remember, the Bills and Chiefs were both going through slumps.   However, in the last 10 quarters, he's had about 4 turnovers where in a re-watch of the play, either he and the WR are on different planets as to what was supposed to happen, or defenders are literally invisible to him at times.  Including the throw that lost the game yesterday where it was 5 yards off target of any Bills player and thrown into a mess of coverage for no reason. 

[1onemangang7]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The problem lies with injuries and coaching. You can't be blind to the fact that he has a major int problem this year that is completely avoidable. 

Yall applauded the Cook pick. They haven't had a running game in years. The guy is trying to get it done. It's always last possession cause you can't run. Defenses don't have to adjust . They just need to make 17 uncomfortable 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

 

   And likely there is but it's usually not his first read.  He doesn't find the best open guy it's like he has to chose which guy he will throw to pre snap and won't checkdown.

[1onemangang7]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

Amazing that you could say this with a straight face.

Two interceptions in three straight games. Leads the league in interceptions. Turned the ball over three times yesterday, including a botched QB-center exchange in his own end zone and a boneheaded pick in the red zone in overtime. Has thrown just one touchdown in the past two games. Bills haven't scored a second half touchdown since Kansas City.

Please explain how Josh suddenly becoming a turnover machine ISN'T the problem.

My goodness. 

He gave you a 17 point lead... .the chiefs game gives you lead with 13 secs left. ...dolphins game led.. it's all him. And they give it back and cry when he don't pull a rabbit by the gun. Cause you can't work a clock . You can't give defenses rest cause you have featherweights who can't move the chains. Josh has to run. 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, gridirongold said:

He gave you a 17 point lead... .the chiefs game gives you lead with 13 secs left. ...dolphins game led.. it's all him. And they give it back and cry when he don't pull a rabbit by the gun. Cause you can't work a clock . You can't give defenses rest cause you have featherweights who can't move the chains. Josh has to run. 

Right. Then what happened? I seem to recall two red zone interceptions and a very important fumbled snap somewhere in there. Were those somehow magically not Allen's fault? Did those turnovers somehow magically not impact the final outcome?

Also, how exactly does one pull a rabbit by the gun?

The "Allen is above reproach and can't be criticized" thing is gross. C'mon now.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

I must say even as a casual observer that I've noticed his facial expressions when on the side lines and body language are such that I don't remember ever having seen before

 

This!

 

A thousand times this!

 

Just looking at Allen’s face yesterday was depressing. He didn’t look like normal Allen. He looked “off”. Hard to even describe. 

[zow2]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

This!

 

A thousand times this!

 

Just looking at Allen’s face yesterday was depressing. He didn’t look like normal Allen. He looked “off”. Hard to even describe. 

 

Again, as i mentioned in an earlier post the game was coming so easy for him.  From the end of last season and playoffs through about the first half of Green Bay.  I don’t think he can comprehend why the throws that we’re working are suddenly covered and disguises are fooling him.  He’s not adjusting.  I just think he’s in shock that the game is not coming as easy as it did.

But this is why we all love NFL football. It’s unpredictable and happens live. 

[1onemangang7]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Right. Then what happened? I seem to recall two red zone interceptions and a very important fumbled snap somewhere in there. Were those somehow magically not Allen's fault? Did those turnovers somehow magically not impact the final outcome?

Also, how exactly does one pull a rabbit by the gun?

The "Allen is above reproach and can't be criticized" thing is gross. C'mon now.

I wouldn't doubt if he Flys the plane too on road games. . Maybe you'd like a Losman or someone equivalent? Morse was just as much to blame. To me the guy is exonerated.  ***** happened . Shouldn't of been there to begin with.  They wouldn't even use the kicker.. bury them now Josh or we gonna Amp up the pressure on ya

[1onemangang7]

The guy is so good they changed the rules. What a shame they thought not getting to see him catch the chiefs one more time.  Let Beane know you think it's bs he doesn't have someone back there with him. A little preservation.  You'd coulda at least gotten 13 seconds better with a draft class that's tearing it up on the ground around the leauge.  

[1onemangang7]

51 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This!

 

A thousand times this!

 

Just looking at Allen’s face yesterday was depressing. He didn’t look like normal Allen. He looked “off”. Hard to even describe. 

Maybe you're not aware he had an elbow thing that kept him out all week

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, gridirongold said:

You guys should really do something else with your time if you think this teams problems lie with the quarterback. 

He's part of the problem not the only problem. 

[1onemangang7]

16 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

He's part of the problem not the only problem. 

Haha I get it. Jokerman.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

He just seems stubborn out there at times, refusing to settle for what the defense is giving him.  Purely speculation obviously, but you have to wonder if he’s kinda started buying into his own hype and lost a little bit of that fire and focus which helped transform him from that raw rookie prospect into a generational talent.

 

Seems to me like he’s out there just slinging it around playing “hero ball” and deviating from the cerebral level of play we saw in the first quarter of the season.  He came out looking like he had a Manning/Brady-esque command over the offense to start the season, and his decision making reflected that.  Now he’s back to looking Favrian, and that’s fun and all sometimes, but it leads to finishes like we saw on Sunday…

 

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

You're not kidding a few weeks ago I remember even Nick Wright of ESPN was saying that the scariest thing in football was a Josh Allen drop back.  Now it's a joke.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

He's looking like the 2017 Allen. But he'll be back. 
I'm not one for speculation or conspiracy theories but I must say even as a casual observer that I've noticed his facial expressions when on the side lines and body language are such that I don't remember ever having seen before. He looks confused and somewhat deflated. Not the intangibles we are used to seeing.
Maybe the question is whether this is simply a reaction to poor play or whether it points to another reason that could be a contributing cause and that we as fans at this point have little insight into.

He's looking like a qb with a rookie first year coordinator. Dorsey is not Dabs and these growing pains may take some time. Would I personally rather have an offensive HC, of course. But that is not realistic in the short term. 

 

Dorsey has to improve and

Josh has to settle down and take the occassional checkdown. 

[Roundybout]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Right. Then what happened? I seem to recall two red zone interceptions and a very important fumbled snap somewhere in there. Were those somehow magically not Allen's fault? Did those turnovers somehow magically not impact the final outcome?

Also, how exactly does one pull a rabbit by the gun?

The "Allen is above reproach and can't be criticized" thing is gross. C'mon now.

 

He provided 430 out of 480 yards of offense for us. He is not the biggest problem, not by a long shot. 

[loyal2dagame]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Please explain how Josh suddenly becoming a turnover machine ISN'T the problem.

My goodness. 

 

Heck, I'll do it. Josh becoming a "turnover machine" isn't THE problem, although it is a problem.

The Bills have an injury problem this year with multiple starters missing time on both sides of the ball.

The Bills defense is unable to effectively shut down running games.

The Bills do not commit to a offensive running game and why would they when the run blocking sucks.

Multiple times it looks as if Bills receivers run the wrong routes, and it's not the rookie WR doing it.

The Bills offense has been one dimensional for so long that other teams are going to figure out how to counter it.

 

That should be enough to explain why the "turnover machine" is only a part of bigger issues with the Bills.

[LabattBlue]

One thing drives me crazy with Allen, and I think this is being coached into him.  Throwing the ball into the ground when primary target is covered, even though he is not under pressure.  One of his best assets is his ability to scramble, so why not extend the play, and keep looking for someone to come open. 
 

Absolutely idiotic coaching. 

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

 

Heck, I'll do it. Josh becoming a "turnover machine" isn't THE problem, although it is a problem.

The Bills have an injury problem this year with multiple starters missing time on both sides of the ball.

The Bills defense is unable to effectively shut down running games.

The Bills do not commit to a offensive running game and why would they when the run blocking sucks.

Multiple times it looks as if Bills receivers run the wrong routes, and it's not the rookie WR doing it.

The Bills offense has been one dimensional for so long that other teams are going to figure out how to counter it.

 

That should be enough to explain why the "turnover machine" is only a part of bigger issues with the Bills.

I concede all of those points.

I do have a simple question, though.

In spite all of the problems you mentioned, if Josh Allen hadn't thrown the picks in the red zone that he has thrown the past two weeks, do you believe the Bills would still have lost those games?
 

Our defense has flaws. Our offense has flaws. Our personnel, largely due to injury, has holes. Despite all of that, it is my contention that Josh Allen suddenly playing like the 2019 version of himself is the main reason that the Bills have lost the past two games. It is my belief that, even with the flaws this team has and the injuries it's struggling through, if Josh wasn't suddenly throwing boneheaded interceptions -- particularly in the red zone -- the Bills would be 8-1.

[DCbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, Logic said:

I concede all of those points.

I do have a simple question, though.

In spite all of the problems you mentioned, if Josh Allen hadn't thrown the picks in the red zone that he has thrown the past two weeks, do you believe the Bills would still have lost those games?
 

Our defense has flaws. Our offense has flaws. Our personnel, largely due to injury, has holes. Despite all of that, it is my contention that Josh Allen suddenly playing like the 2019 version of himself is the main reason that the Bills have lost the past two games. It is my belief that, even with the flaws this team has and the injuries it's struggling through, if Josh wasn't suddenly throwing boneheaded interceptions -- particularly in the red zone -- the Bills would be 8-1.

I agree.  Bills would be 8 - 1.  I think Allen is pressing too much.  He's lost confidence in his receivers other than Diggs and the Bills run game is bad.  I believe he feels he has to make something happen in order to win.  He doesn't have enough of a supporting cast. It feels like 2019 all over again even though he has Diggs.

Edited November 14, 2022 by DCbillsfan

[BuffalOhio]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The problem lies with injuries and coaching. You can't be blind to the fact that he has a major int problem this year that is completely avoidable. 

 

As of this writing, he has the MOST interceptions in the league.  Mind numbingly bad interceptions, too.  Not sure what he's looking at when he throws them. 

 

I love him and I'll ride with him forever, but he's pressing way too hard.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

But this is why we all love NFL football. It’s unpredictable and happens live. 

Oh yeah, love this. Can't get enough of this.

 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

The "Allen is above reproach and can't be criticized" thing is gross. C'mon now.

This is true and I agree with you.

 

But you have to remember that probably more than half of this forum doesn't agree with us.

A lot of folks are here to slot into a community and feel a sense of togetherness.  "Us" vs. "the world" and all that.

 

They want to surround themselves with a feel-good Bills bubble, all the time.

 

You can't reason with these people.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

Aside from the obvious interception stat, I feel totally different now when I see Allen drop back for a pass. Last year, if he got rid of the ball relatively quickly, and threw the deep ball, I could not wait to see where that ball was going as you just knew it was going to be a big play. The same could be said when he rolled out and created more time, you just knew when he released it that something big was about to happen.

 

Now, it's back to the old panic attack as a fan and when he releases it, you just hope it's not another interception. When he threw that ball in OT on 2nd down and released it pretty quickly, I was CONVINCED someone must be WIDE OPEN. It was just so bizarre to see that it was another ball that was not even remotely close to his own receiver. Eventually, I'm sure he will shake this stretch of bad throws off but man, it really was quite a comfort watching him before, totally spoiled.

 

 

I’m the opposite lol I feel better about the deep passes than the medium passes…deep passes are usually josh picking on single coverage but the short/medium stuff he has been not seeing underneath defenders pretty often 

[GunnerBill]

Josh is the biggest single reason we are 0-2 the last two weeks. But he was the single biggest reason we were 6-1 through seven games. I actually thought he played pretty well in the first half on Sunday but 2nd half and OT it wasn't just the 3 turnovers - everything was off. If Diggs doesn't reel in the amazing one hander that is sailed right towards the safety for a possible INT too. 

 

I don't think he is getting a lot of help from Dorsey, and who knows how much the injury is a factor but the last two games he has made game killing mistakes. You can see how frustrated he is with himself. The good news? 12 months ago this was Patrick Mahomes. He had that run last year where he was hurting the Chiefs with stupid turnovers and mistakes. He shook out of it and I am sure Josh will. They need to focus on getting him in rhythm. He has always been a guy who is better when he is throwing early and often. I think between trying to establish the run an Dorsey struggling to find drive starters with any regularatry they have not had him in his groove. And we are living with the results.

Edited November 14, 2022 by GunnerBill

[78thealltimegreat]

It wasn’t Josh that gave up an 80 yard td run when they where up 27-10 much less 200 yards receiving to Justin Jefferson 

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

This!

 

A thousand times this!

 

Just looking at Allen’s face yesterday was depressing. He didn’t look like normal Allen. He looked “off”. Hard to even describe. 

Did he and Brittany break-up? That will do this to ya. 
 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

21 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

 

As of this writing, he has the MOST interceptions in the league.  Mind numbingly bad interceptions, too.  Not sure what he's looking at when he throws them. 

 

I love him and I'll ride with him forever, but he's pressing way too hard.

He’s had some real bad ones that were entirely on him…but something odd happened on that final play yesterday.  The double post worked to perfection clearing out the safety and Davis had a step on Peterson in single coverage.  If Davis wasn’t expected to route adjust based on the coverage that ball would’ve been aired out to the back of the end zone so josh would have bulleted the ball for no reason and missed by about 12 yards. Pretty unlikely.  
 

I’ve seen people saying Davis was supposed to cut his route short and sit underneath because the safety went high which very well may have been the case and it would’ve put the throw pretty much right on target and Davis would’ve had Peterson boxed out and been open 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He’s had some real bad ones that were entirely on him…but something odd happened on that final play yesterday.  The double post worked to perfection clearing out the safety and Davis had a step on Peterson in single coverage.  If Davis wasn’t expected to route adjust based on the coverage that ball would’ve been aired out to the back of the end zone so josh would have bulleted the ball for no reason and missed by about 12 yards. Pretty unlikely.  
 

I’ve seen people saying Davis was supposed to cut his route short and sit underneath because the safety went high which very well may have been the case and it would’ve put the throw pretty much right on target and Davis would’ve had Peterson boxed out and been open 

 

 

I just don't go end zone there - its 2nd and 10 we needed yards.  Situational football.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

It wasn’t Josh that gave up an 80 yard td run when they where up 27-10 much less 200 yards receiving to Justin Jefferson 

 

It was Josh and Mitch who gave up a touchdown when the game was all but over tho.

3 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

 

I just don't go end zone there - its 2nd and 10 we needed yards.  Situational football.  

 

I put the pick on Josh. I think he just missed it. But go watch the playcall. They all run to the endzone. They did on 1st down as well I think. Beats me what the thought behind the playcall was.

Edited November 14, 2022 by GunnerBill