Seriously disappointed in this board at how many have turned on Allen

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I "ignored" the points from Allen turnovers because without the defensive meltdown the 2nd one never exists. If they do their job one time, we kneel on the ball and go home.

 

I find this hilarious and also concerning. The offense literally had that very opportunity because of a tremendous goal line stand from the defense. It is absolutely bat poop crazy to me that you used that as a real example. I mean....wow. What you are asking for literally happened, in real life, in the very game you are saying that it didn't happen in but you wish it had. Dude....

 

I am not ridding anybody of any blame. I am just putting Allen at the top of the totem pole based on his second half performance. I refuse to write off a second half QB performance filled with failed bombs to Diggs ending in 3 and Out , Field goal, Interception, 3 and Out , Fumble/TD , Field Goal. Surely I wish we had more from the defense. But 2 turn overs, a defensive TD, and two 3 and outs aren't the defenses fault. 

 

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance

/ˈkäɡnədiv ˈdisənəns/

Learn to pronounce

noun

PSYCHOLOGY

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

 

 

EDIT: I really cannot get over how absolutely insane and stupid it is that you said that. I am baffled, and impressed. Jesus Christ. Hahaha

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mango
WOW

[Jauronimo]

Just now, FireChans said:

Josh should have went to the podium and said the defense did the bare minimum getting him the ball back with 50 seconds and the lead.

It was too much to ask that our offense generate 0 yards and hold on to the ball.  Or that they lose a yard and hold on to the ball. 

 

Asking our offense to complete a center-QB exchange was completely unreasonable by our defense - BullBuchanan probably

[Airseven]

Many have turned on Allen in November about as quickly as they anointed him MVP in August. It’s the typical fluff fan petulance.

[HamSandwhich]

It’s sad, I have not and will not. Rough patch but he’ll pull through.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Mango said:

 

I find this hilarious and also concerning. The offense literally had that very opportunity because of a tremendous goal line stand from the defense. It is absolutely bat poop crazy to me that you used that as a real example. I mean....wow. What you are asking for literally happened, in real life, in the very game you are saying that it didn't happen in but you wish it had.

 

 

An "amazing" goal line stand in a scenario that they manufactured because they couldn't get a stop on 4th and 18?

Do you know what a strawman is? It looks like you've opened a factory my man.

[FireChans]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

It was too much to ask that our offense generate 0 yards and hold on to the ball.  Or that they lose a yard and hold on to the ball. 

 

Asking our offense to complete a center-QB exchange was completely unreasonable by our defense - BullBuchanan probably

Imagine saying the bare minimum was done by the defense, when the bare minimum by the offense/QB was “don’t fumble in your endzone,” and they couldn’t execute.

 

Josh could have run out of the back of the endzone. He could have thrown a pick 30 yards down the field. He could have taken a safety. All those things give us a better chance to win than not fumble for a TD the other way. 
 

Has to be trolling. No one could believe this.

 

 

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Your math is based on what?

The team needed positive yardage to win the game. QB sneaks in 2019 (last year I have available data) has an 88% success rate. 12% of the time you fail. If you fail when you start in your own endzone, that's a safety. So 12% of the time you're going to lose there.

Show your work.

Okay here you go…..

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35021856/was-vikings-bills-best-game-nfl-season-explaining-ending-justin-jefferson-catch-josh-allen-struggles-kirk-cousins-rise

 

“

When the Vikings failed on their fourth-and-goal sneak attempt from the 1-yard line with 50 seconds left in the game, the Bills were basically a lock to take home a victory, with a win expectancy of 99.9%. And when they promptly fumbled the ball away on a failed handoff to the Vikings for a defensive touchdown, Josh Allen & Co. were left with just a 5% chance of taking home a victory.

ESPN has win expectancy data going back through 2007. By this model, in terms of winning the game, the fumbled exchange between Allen and Mitch Morse was the worst offensive play any team has run during that 15-year span.”

 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Your math is based on what?

The team needed positive yardage to win the game. QB sneaks in 2019 (last year I have available data) has an 88% success rate. 12% of the time you fail. If you fail when you start in your own endzone, that's a safety. So 12% of the time you're going to lose there.

Show your work.

I’m with you partially that there’s more to blame than the offense but sneaks are 88% successful when you need to GAIN yards.  We could’ve gotten back to the line for no gain and been fine.  
 

Heck we could’ve gotten safetied and maybe been ok…that’s what made the win percentage so high.  Your logic on this part of your explanation is entirely flawed but I’m partially with you on the general point 

losing yardage on a sneak in this new age where you can get shoved from behind is just about impossible 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[UKBillFan]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Who cares if he admits it?  Is that supposed to make me feel better about it?

 

Just stop doing it! 😡

 

This is where I am.

 

OK, he said he played badly in the second half against Green Bay - he'll learn his lesson, fair play.

Hmmm, I've heard his post Jets before from him, but at least he's taking the blame like he should.

FFS, this is the third week in a row, enough with SAYING that you were bad, Josh, and actually follow up the interviews with actions.

 

If he mucks up again agianst Cleveland in inexcusable circumstances, patience will be running thin. It shouldn't be that difficult to do the simple stuff right and not ram the ball three times in three games right down a defensive player's throat.

 

Sorry, rant over. 😔

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Imagine saying the bare minimum was done by the defense, when the bare minimum by the offense/QB was “don’t fumble in your endzone,” and they couldn’t execute.

 

Josh could have run out of the back of the endzone. He could have thrown a pick 30 yards down the field. He could have taken a safety. All those things give us a better chance to win than not fumble for a TD the other way. 
 

Has to be trolling. No one could believe this.

 

 

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

[Jauronimo]

 

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Many have turned on Allen in November about as quickly as they anointed him MVP in August. It’s the typical fluff fan petulance.

I haven't seen anyone turn on him.  I've seen a lot of white knighting about people turning on Allen.  I've seen a total intolerance of any criticism of Allen. 

 

Yet to see anyone say he should be benched, traded, or that we should move on with another QB.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

Okay here you go…..

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35021856/was-vikings-bills-best-game-nfl-season-explaining-ending-justin-jefferson-catch-josh-allen-struggles-kirk-cousins-rise

 

“

When the Vikings failed on their fourth-and-goal sneak attempt from the 1-yard line with 50 seconds left in the game, the Bills were basically a lock to take home a victory, with a win expectancy of 99.9%. And when they promptly fumbled the ball away on a failed handoff to the Vikings for a defensive touchdown, Josh Allen & Co. were left with just a 5% chance of taking home a victory.

ESPN has win expectancy data going back through 2007. By this model, in terms of winning the game, the fumbled exchange between Allen and Mitch Morse was the worst offensive play any team has run during that 15-year span.”

 

 

 

That doesn't show any work it just shows you quoting someone else from a model that likely doesn't take into account the bills were backed up into their own endzone.

Try again.

[sonyab1974]

2 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

He should. I know he's still a great QB, but his decision making in crunch time has to get better.

 

He should be looking in the mirror, it's the only way to fix the problem. 

 

For the record though even if they go 6-11 this year, the Bills and Allen are still my team lol.

Yes! The Bills and Allen are still my team too!!!! They gotta win next Sunday!!!!

[damj]

 

[FireChans]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

It literally was the worst play possible. Giving them the lead with 50 seconds left is the worst vs not doing that.

 

The Vikings kicker SUCKS. He missed 4 PATs this year.

 

Your hilarious broken brain logic is, “defense allowing 0 points is the bare minimum” and “turning it over to give them 7” is not.

 

Josh doesn’t need you to carry his sword. He knows he lost the game. Everyone knows, except you.

[TheFunPolice]

I blame the coaches, because this keeps happening. We keep blowing leads or losing close games, and it is due to lack of detail. 

 

there seems to be a mentality of "we'll just get it back after" which has worked a lot, but isn't going to work against top teams so often. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, FireChans said:

It literally was the worst play possible. Giving them the lead with 50 seconds left is the worst vs not doing that.

 

The Vikings kicker SUCKS. He missed 4 PATs this year.

 

Your hilarious broken brain logic is, “defense allowing 0 points is the bare minimum” and “turning it over to give them 7” is not.

 

Josh doesn’t need you to carry his sword. He knows he lost the game. Everyone knows, except you.

You're hopeless. Send me your address and I'll send you a Hooked on Phonics for Christmas.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

That doesn't show any work it just shows you quoting someone else from a model that likely doesn't take into account the bills were backed up into their own endzone.

Try again.

Lets see your math that supports expecting your offense to gain 0 yards or execute a QB-center exchange is unreasonable while we're being completely stupid. 

 

You are embarrassing yourself but I think you could go a lot lower.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The singletary fumble resulted in 0 points for us too though? Lol a bit of selective logic going on on both sides here.  Without the power of hindsight would you really be happy he threw the ball away on 4th down?  I find that incredibly hard to believe 

 

I am certainly not "OK" with the Singletary TO because all TO are bad. But that doesn't mean some are not worse. Singletary scored 2 TD's. Yes he had a turnover (booo!), but luckily it didn't diminish our lead. Josh threw 1 TD, had 2 INT's and a fumble that resulted in 14 points and ultimately ended the game. I didn't start the "whatabout-isms" on this one. That was Bull. I was just stating why I think Allen deserves so much blame this week. 

 

To your point about the INT. Yes, I would prefer to throw the ball away there, even without the benefit of hindsight. I would have been more OK with an INT had we been back a bit farther. We threw that INT from the 7. Part of the decision making in going for it there is that we give them the ball back inside the 10 and making them march down the field 93 yards. Throwing an INT in the end zone is absolutely off the table pre-snap because of field position. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mango

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is why you look like a 🤡. The fumble wasn't the worst case scenario. If Allen take a safety there, you have to kick the ball off to minnesota and then ask your defense to stop them from getting a field goal to win the game on their own terms - something our defense had proven it was completely incapable of doing because minutes later they would do it again in overtime.

The only worse outcome than what happened was a fumble that minny recovered not in the end zone.  If we got safetied you could be correct that the defense wouldn’t hold up but the odds of losing yardage on a sneak (assuming you don’t fumble the snap) has gotta be 10,000 to 1.  
 

there were a lot of initial hot takes about how we shouldn’t have snuck it and so on which made it seem that a sneak in that situation is difficult but it really isn’t at all.  Your qb is falling forwards with momentum while getting pushed from behind gaining 0 yards is darned near a statistical certainty just based on physics lol 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

You're hopeless. Send me your address and I'll send you a Hooked on Phonics for Christmas.

What is the bare minimum expectation of an offense with the lead and 50 seconds left?

[BigDingus]

I don't see many people "turning on him," just people being overly sensitive about criticism. 

 

Why is it OK to constantly call out Edmunds, McDermott, Oliver, Frazier, Dorsey, Singletary, Gabe, the entire defense, etc... literally anyone BUT Allen?

 

It's like the Tyrod days all over again. Can't say anything about the QB, shift blame to everyone else, otherwise you're a "hater" & not a "true" Bills fan...

 

Does anyone honestly believe there's a single Bills fan that doesn't want Allen to succeed? Who isn't desperately rooting for him? Who is legitimately calling for him to be traded/benched?

 

There might be a handful of nuts out there, mostly on Twitter, but most everyone else is just disappointed, venting, or trying to come to terms that our QB likely isn't ever going to be consistently elite.

 

If anything, fans are just guilty of propping him up to unfair expectations (MVP, better than Mahomes, SB favorite), and I'm guilty of that too. 

 

But criticizing recent play, playing us straight out of the 1st seed again, mid-season regression again, turnover prone AGAIN... these are just fair & normal criticisms for fans to make.

 

We've seen this story before. Nobody wanted a repeat & another "Arrowhead invitational" again (as Nick Wright so annoyingly puts it), yet here we are. That's it. No betrayal or turning on players necessary.

 

Just stop acting like QB is immune to criticism we levy at everyone else (and do so far more frequently).

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What is the bare minimum expectation of an offense with the lead and 50 seconds left?

Asking them to do anything other than fumble 6 is unreasonable in my opinion.  I mean how many teams expect their franchise QBs to gain a minimum of 0 yards when the defense is expecting a play that results in positive yards?  Patrick Mahomes is never asked to gain 0 yards when it matters.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jauronimo

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

An "amazing" goal line stand in a scenario that they manufactured because they couldn't get a stop on 4th and 18?

Do you know what a strawman is? It looks like you've opened a factory my man.

 

WTF are you talking about? Below is your quote. It isn't a strawman when it literally happens exactly the way you asked it to.  They made one stop. Gave the ball back, all they needed to do was burn 41 seconds. 

This isn't even a conversation anymore. I don't know what it is, but it isn't based in any sort of reality or actual communication. 

 

Quote

If they do their job one time, we kneel on the ball and go home.

 

 

Also for your reference. Learn the definition of strawman. Nothing is exaggerated or misrepresented. 

 

noun

noun: strawman

1.

an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

2.

a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.

"a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

[WyoAZBillfan]

55 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Nah. I’m done accepting mediocre performances. Handle the snap. It’s inexcusable. 

It’s expected on knee jerk Monday. How many snaps have been fumbled this year? Do you recall? Been a few. Are you also outraged about Edmonds dropping ints, or db’s not punching the ball out? Not kicking fg’s, taking the points? How about missed tackles, whiffed blocks. It’s a team sport. Without 17, most chalked this game up as a L anyways. 
Shell shocked fans have to take the bad with the good and vice-versa. 
Take a breath and enjoy the ride, lot of games yet to be played. 

[Logic]

I read the OP but not the 14 pages of discussion, so I'm sure I'm probably repeating the sentiments of others here, but...

If anyone has "turned on" Allen, then yes, I agree, that's silly and reactionary and weak.

That said, I also feel there is a segment of Bills fans who have placed #17 on a pedestal and absolutely refuse to say a bad word about his play even when criticism is warranted. 

Josh Allen is a generational talent, yes. Josh Allen is our franchise quarterback, yes. Josh Allen displays incredible heart, will, grit, toughness, and courage every week, and particularly playing through things like a UCL injury when he could easily sit and no one would blame him. With all of that said, neither Josh, nor any other Bills player, should be beyond criticism when criticism is warranted.

Josh Allen has thrown two interceptions in three straight games. The All-22 is littered with instances of there being open options underneath -- including, oftentimes, completely uncovered checkdown options -- and Josh refusing to take those layups and instead reverting back to his old Hero Ball days. Josh Allen, in my opinion, has directly, majorly contributed to -- if not outright CAUSED -- losses the last two weeks against opponents the Bills should have beaten.

I believe Josh is in a slump, and I believe he will get out of it. I have not turned on him. He is the franchise. But it would be disingenuous at best and cultish at worst to pretend like he's not currently making decisions that cost his team football games. If he fixes his decision making, the Bills can win every remaining game on their schedule. If he doesn't, they're gonna enter the playoffs as a 6 or 7 seed and make life really hard on themselves.

Josh is not above criticism. 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

WTF are you talking about? Below is your quote. It isn't a strawman when it literally happens exactly the way you asked it to.  They made one stop. Gave the ball back, all they needed to do was burn 41 seconds. 

This isn't even a conversation anymore. I don't know what it is, but it isn't based in any sort of reality or actual communication. 

 

 

 

Also for your reference. Learn the definition of strawman. Nothing is exaggerated or misrepresented. 

 

noun

noun: strawman

1.

an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

2.

a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.

"a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

You really don't see it?

You giving the defense credit for making an "amazing" play that they never would have had to make had they made the easy one. The difference between their "amazing" play and the easy one they failed to make is that the "amazing" one required the offense to snap the ball into their endzone, and the easy one didn't.

You created a situation (strawman) where the it's the offense's fault they lost the game when the defense presented them with a situation where a kneel-down was impossible. You did this not because it's the truth, but because it's easier to defeat that argument.

Edited November 14, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I am certainly not "OK" with the Singletary TO because all TO are bad. But that doesn't mean some are worse. Singletary scored 2 TD's. Yes he had a turnover (booo!), but luckily it didn't diminish our lead. Josh threw 1 TD, had 2 INT's and a fumble that resulted in 14 points and ultimately ended the game. I didn't start the "whatabout-isms" on this one. That was Bull. I was just stating why I think Allen deserves so much blame this week. 

 

To your point about the INT. Yes, I would prefer to throw the ball away there, even without the benefit of hindsight. I would have been more OK with an INT had we been back a bit farther. We threw that INT from the 7. Part of the decision making in going for it there is that we give them the ball back inside the 10 and making them march down the field 93 yards. Throwing an INT in the end zone is absolutely off the table pre-snap because of field position. 

I was not at all accusing you of starting it for the record.  Its just very ‘what came first the chicken or the egg’ trying to assign blame in this one because so much went wrong.  If I were forced to pick one I’d blame the coaches for not attempting a fg on that 4th and 2 which is an opinion I had presnap there.

 

maybe you would not be  one of them and I applaud you for that but people would’ve been screaming after a 4th down throwaway 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Sharky7337]

I wonder how coach feels you don't stick up for him the same way!

[WyoAZBillfan]

6 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

No no no no. Many of us are past the "enjoy the ride" stuff. Like, many years past that.

Do you even know where the ride starts? My folks had a saying “some people would B**** if they were hung with a new rope “. You my friend are one of those people. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by WyoAZBillfan

[Mango]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I was not at all accusing you of starting it for the record.  It just very ‘what came first the chicken or the egg’ trying to assign blame in this one because so much went wrong.  If I were forced to pick one I’d blame the coaches for not attempting a fg on that 4th and 2 which is an opinion I had presnap there.

 

maybe you would not be  one of them and I applaud you for that but people would’ve been screaming after a 4th down throwaway 

 

 

 

I as mad about all the sequence of events there. At scale I don't haaaaate going for it. But I was mad and confused when we stayed on the field and we didn't run the ball on 3rd. So at that moment I was hoping we were trying to just draw them Offside, maybe take the delay of game and kick the FG. I was surprised when we actually snapped the ball. 

Then to turn it over in the end zone, I was pissed. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Asking them to do anything other than fumble 6 is unreasonable in my opinion.  I mean how many teams expect their franchise QBs to gain a minimum of 0 yards when the defense is expecting a play that results in positive yards?  Patrick Mahomes is never asked to gain 0 yards when it matters.  

Lmao imagine an alternate world where Kirk had a fumble 6 to lose. The Vikings boards would be abuzz talking about how that wasn’t that bad!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It literally was the worst play possible. Giving them the lead with 50 seconds left is the worst vs not doing that.

 

The Vikings kicker SUCKS. He missed 4 PATs this year.

 

Your hilarious broken brain logic is, “defense allowing 0 points is the bare minimum” and “turning it over to give them 7” is not.

 

Josh doesn’t need you to carry his sword. He knows he lost the game. Everyone knows, except you.

I stand by my opinion that it was the second worst outcome with the worst being a fumbled snap recovered by the Vikings that wasn’t recovered in the end zone 🤣 

 

no way were we pulling off a goal line stand again 

 

heck I would’ve just tossed Jefferson into the end zone on that catch that got them down to the 1 and the bills almost made me look stupid for a second lol

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I stand by my opinion that it was the second worst outcome with the worst being a fumbled snap recovered by the Vikings that wasn’t recovered in the end zone 🤣 

 

no way were we pulling off a goal line stand again 

 

heck I would’ve just tossed Jefferson into the end zone on that catch that got them down to the 1 and the bills almost made me look stupid for a second lol

Statistically, I don’t think that’s true but I get your point.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lmao imagine an alternate world where Kirk had a fumble 6 to lose. The Vikings boards would be abuzz talking about how that wasn’t that bad!

I really don’t think people can even wrap their heads around how bad of a beat it was because everyone was angrily questioning the call in the moment 🤣.  Not getting 0 yards on a sneak with the push from behind now being allowed is pretty much impossible. 
 

this was like the worst beat of all time…pushing way into a team recovering consecutive onside kicks and scoring two late tds type territory which I don’t know if it’s even actually happened lol

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Statistically, I don’t think that’s true but I get your point.

That would be an interesting debate lol mathematically I am definitely not sure though admittedly.  I remember when it ended up looking clear minny recovered praying it was a td 😁

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BuffaloMatt]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. . . . that said I still don't feel any better. I hate Monday's after brutal loses, and I think we all can agree, BRUTAL. I's like the ghost of Fitzy entered Josh's body in the red zone these past few weeks. Someone in the locker room needs to burn some sage. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

I blame the coaches, because this keeps happening. We keep blowing leads or losing close games, and it is due to lack of detail. 

 

there seems to be a mentality of "we'll just get it back after" which has worked a lot, but isn't going to work against top teams so often. 

I understand your point, but how do we know the coaches didn't tell Josh before he went on the field "REMEMBER, NO TURNOVERS; STAY FOCUSED; HOLD THE BALL WITH TWO HANDS" etc...

 

And then Josh goes out and messes up the exchange.

 

I know, "lack of detail" reflects on coaching and it's coaching's responsibility to make sure the team doesn't miss detail...but the coaches can't go on the field and handle the exchange themselves.

 

We don't really know how much the staff focused on, or didn't focus on, "DETAIL" at the moment or in the week leading to the game.

 

I have to assume the coaches told Josh 100 times all week "PROTECT YOUR DAMANGED ARM/ELBOW" and so Josh goes out and tries to punch the ball out with his bad arm.  Then lies on the ground like he was shot.

 

The coaches can't play for him.  

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Plenty of players, coaches, and injuries are to blame. Dorsey is certainly near the top of the list. As of now, I'm confident in saying a few things. The Bills are vastly overrated, coached very poorly, and unlikely to win a Super Bowl. My disappointment is growing with each game. I totally bought into the hype. Shame on me. 

 

They can still turn this around. Im hoping this is just a slump that they break out of this week.

[UKBillFan]

55 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You really don't see it?

You giving the defense credit for making an "amazing" play that they never would have had to make had they made the easy one. The difference between their "amazing" play and the easy one they failed to make is that the "amazing" one required the offense to snap the ball into their endzone, and the easy one didn't.

You created a situation (strawman) where the it's the offense's fault they lost the game when the defense presented them with a situation where a kneel-down was impossible. You did this not because it's the truth, but because it's easier to defeat that argument.

 

The defense offered a difficult position but not a horrible position. All Josh had to do was clasp the ball. If he managed it, he failed.

Please tell me how the defense were to blame for his interception in over time? I'm dying to know.

[Slack_in_MA]

Probably already mentioned somewhere in the zillion posts since the game, but we need to remember that the Bucs lost three games in November the year they won the Super Bowl. The Rams lost 3 last November and won it all.