Orlovsky: Bills have become one of best screen teams

[Steel City Mafia]

 

[Big Turk]

Have they?  I dunno, they have a few ones that work but more often I see ones that Allen has to throw into the dirt.  

 

That WR to Singletary on the final drive was pretty nice tho I have to admit.  

 

I miss the "Gold Rip" audibles Allen used to call that would be the WR Screen to Brown that usually went for big gains or TD's tho...

 

Maybe Stevenson gives us that dimension back again?

[LyndonvilleBill]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Have they?  I dunno, they have a few ones that work but more often I see ones that Allen has to throw into the dirt.  

 

That WR to Singletary on the final drive was pretty nice tho I have to admit.  

 

I miss the "Gold Rip" audibles Allen used to call that would be the WR Screen to Brown that usually went for big gains or TD's tho...

 

Maybe Stevenson gives us that dimension back again?

I question it as well. Seems like when he fires it out there it's pretty good, but when Josh tries to lay it out there or tries a touch pass, not so good. 🤔

[buffaloboyinATL]

That is pretty funny, because that used to be one of our biggest weaknesses. I have heard some analysts saying that the short pass and screen game has basically replaced our running game. I tend to agree for the most part.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by buffaloboyinATL

[jletha]

It really worked well for us, as Dan said. This one and the Shakir one were huge to take the load off of Allen and get chunk yards in the absence of a true run game.

 

If we can utilize this against blitzing teams to get them out of Cover 2 itll be great.

[Son of a K-Gun]

I'm sorry I just couldn't take my eyes off of Bates blowing up his man...missed everything Orlovsky was saying.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I question it as well. Seems like when he fires it out there it's pretty good, but when Josh tries to lay it out there or tries a touch pass, not so good. 🤔

 

The best screen game I have ever seen happened when we had Chan Gailey here...it was a work of art to watch them run screens.

[eball]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Have they?  I dunno, they have a few ones that work but more often I see ones that Allen has to throw into the dirt.  

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I question it as well. Seems like when he fires it out there it's pretty good, but when Josh tries to lay it out there or tries a touch pass, not so good. 🤔

 

Well, all Orlovsky does is study game tape of all 32 NFL teams for a living and has a background as an NFL QB...but you're right, he's probably full of s-h-i-t and your armchair observations are more spot on.

 

[K-9]

Depends on the type of screen, imo. 

[Big Turk]

Just now, eball said:

 

 

Well, all Orlovsky does is study game tape of all 32 NFL teams for a living and has a background as an NFL QB...but you're right, he's probably full of s-h-i-t and your armchair observations are more spot on.

 

 

When was the last regular RB screen that actually went for more than 5 yards?

[wjag]

REALLY!!!!!  Not unless we are redefining the screen play.

 

If throwing a quick out to the boundary is included.  Okay.

 

But if the traditional sweep of a QB dropping deep to suck in the DT/DLs while guards and linemen are setting up, then NO.  HELL NO.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

When was the last regular RB screen that actually went for more than 5 yards?

The Ravens game, I believe 3rd quarter, to Singletary that went for about 12 yards.

 

 

Edit: The 2nd play of the 3rd quarter TD drive, went for 14 yards.

Edited October 5, 2022 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[st pete gogolak]

I would have guessed we have the worst screen game going.  Did we throw a screen against Miami?  A draw?  It's all hindsight but a screen on the last drive against Miami could have ended up with us kicking a game winning field goal.  The Singletary play against the Ravens was a good call, incredibly well executed but hardly a classic screen.

[eball]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

When was the last regular RB screen that actually went for more than 5 yards?

 

All screens are not created equal.  It sounds like you want to see the old school, let the blitzers come free and then float a pass to the RB outside who has four blockers in front of him.  That's not what Buffalo is doing.

 

 

[benderbender]

2 minutes ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

I'm sorry I just couldn't take my eyes off of Bates blowing up his man...missed everything Orlovsky was saying.

So Bates is a…master?

[HoofHearted]

14 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

That is pretty funny, because that used to be one of our biggest weaknesses. I have heard some analysts saying that the short pass and screen game has basically replaced are running game. I tend to agree for the most part.

This is true for most teams right now in the NFL, and you really see it at the college level. The perimeter run game has been largely replace by fast screens, bubbles, and tunnel screens. From a defensive perspective these plays are no different than playing the run - run fits have to be on point. Add RPOs to the equation and now you get the best of both worlds - depending on how the defense reacts you can end up with something hitting inside or outside.

Edited October 5, 2022 by HoofHearted

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

All screens are not created equal.  It sounds like you want to see the old school, let the blitzers come free and then float a pass to the RB outside who has four blockers in front of him.  That's not what Buffalo is doing.

 

 

 

Even then - we actually have run a couple of those this year

[HoofHearted]

12 minutes ago, jletha said:

It really worked well for us, as Dan said. This one and the Shakir one were huge to take the load off of Allen and get chunk yards in the absence of a true run game.

 

If we can utilize this against blitzing teams to get them out of Cover 2 itll be great.

If you're blitzing you're not running cover 2 behind it. Most you can send is 5.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

All screens are not created equal.  It sounds like you want to see the old school, let the blitzers come free and then float a pass to the RB outside who has four blockers in front of him.  That's not what Buffalo is doing.

 

 

 

We had a better WR screen game when John Brown was here...multiple long plays and/or TDs from the "Gold Rip" audible with him.  I would bet that is going to be Stevenson's role if he is activated to the roster from PUP as he brings a speed element they lack right now.

 

Again...the best screen game I have ever seen belonged to Chan Gailey and that was for all types...traditional screens, middle screens, WR screens....dude was a master at them.  It was a joy to watch.

[LABILLBACKER]

17 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

That is pretty funny, because that used to be one of our biggest weaknesses. I have heard some analysts saying that the short pass and screen game has basically replaced are running game. I tend to agree for the most part.

It has replaced our run game. Dorsey has identified the OL sucks at run blocking so this is the only reasonable outlet to keep pressure off Josh.  I can live with it temporarily but we still have to fix the original problem. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

This is true for most teams right now in the NFL, and you really see it at the college level. The perimeter run game has been largely replace by fast screens, bubbles, and tunnel screens. From a defensive perspective these plays are no different than playing the run - run fits have to be on point.

 

This was going on many years ago with Tom Brady and the Patriots...he would basically line up and if a running play was called but there was a DB playing off coverage on the WR, Brady would simply get the ball, take one step back and fire it out there for him to pick up easy yards without even calling an audible.  

 

I remember a game where they were playing the Steelers and they had a phenomenal run D so the Patriots basically didn't even bother trying to run it and just threw almost every down and were carving them up and crushed them.  

 

The announcers were stunned because that just never really happened back then.  Teams always at least tried to run the ball.  Basically it was the first time I remember watching a game and seeing those type of short passes used as a team's version of a running game.

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure why they even really bother. Singletary is wide open over the middle on seemingly every check down. Josh threw it to him multiple times against the Ravens and I was super glad to see it. They used it throughout the playoffs last year and it reminded me of how Kelly used Thurman in the K Gun. It’s good for a minimum of five yards every single time. 

[Bangarang]

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

We had a better WR screen game when John Brown was here...multiple long plays and/or TDs from the "Gold Rip" audible with him.  I would bet that is going to be Stevenson's role if he is activated to the roster from PUP as he brings a speed element they lack right now.

 

Again...the best screen game I have ever seen belonged to Chan Gailey and that was for all types...traditional screens, middle screens, WR screens....dude was a master at them.  It was a joy to watch.

 

Agree, Gailey was very good at it.  I'm glad Dorsey is doing things to make up for the lack of a traditional running attack.

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Agree, Gailey was very good at it.  I'm glad Dorsey is doing things to make up for the lack of a traditional running attack.

 

 

I'd like to see more edge runs and toss sweeps...the Bills are actually very good at blocking those and have gotten numerous long gains from them this year.  Not sure why we keep trying to run up the middle with inside zone when we have been terrible at blocking for it.  

 

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

This was going on many years ago with Tom Brady and the Patriots...he would basically line up and if a running play was called but there was a DB playing off coverage on the WR, Brady would simply get the ball, take one step back and fire it out there for him to pick up easy yards without even calling an audible.  

 

I remember a game where they were playing the Steelers and they had a phenomenal run D so the Patriots basically didn't even bother trying to run it and just threw almost every down and were carving them up and crushed them.  

 

The announcers were stunned because that just never really happened back then.  Teams always at least tried to run the ball.  Basically it was the first time I remember watching a game and seeing those type of short passes used as a team's version of a running game.

Yep. It's called throwing the "gift". Happens a lot on the backside of 3x1. If the corner is playing off on the single side it's an automatic route conversion to a 5 yard stop. It's good stuff. Can't be treated as a replacement to the run game though - schematically those two are very different for a defense.

[eball]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

I'd like to see more edge runs and toss sweeps...the Bills are actually very good at blocking those and have gotten numerous long gains from them this year.  Not sure why we keep trying to run up the middle with inside zone when we have been terrible at blocking for it.  

 

 

I would like to see those as well.  We have these high-RAS O-linemen and asking them to block for between the tackles runs doesn't make sense.

 

I have to think Dorsey is playing the long game, not showing everything right now and figuring out what they do best.

 

[Sestak4ever]

Used to love the tight end screen Kelly would run with Metzlars. Kelly would roll out to his right and get the entire defense moving in that direction and then throw back to the left to Metzlars. Always good for a nice gain. Haven’t seen us use that since.

[HoofHearted]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

Same reason our run game has been poor. Common denominator there... The OL.

[Beck Water]

48 minutes ago, Steel City Mafia said:

 

 

This notion is a surprise to me.  I think it would surprise the Cover 1 guys as well, since they were commenting about the Dolphins game that Dorsey's sole answer to pressure seemed to be "Singletary out wide".

 

I would love the Bills to be one of the best screen teams.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[HoofHearted]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

This notion is a surprise to me.  I think it would surprise the Cover 1 guys as well, since they were commenting about the Dolphins game that Dorsey's sole answer to pressure seemed to be "Singletary out wide".

Empty is a fantastic way to get people out of pressure. Forces you to play Cover 0 on the back end if you still want to bring the house. With our weapons I love that matchup.

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Same reason our run game has been poor. Common denominator there... The OL.

 

But wait.....Jonathan Taylor would get yards and yards more behind our same OL, I read it right here

 

Seriously, I know the OL has bitten big time especially once Morse went out vs. Tennessee and was out for Miami (then the entire right side of the OL followed).  But is it limited to the OL?  I've seen plays where the timing was just off on Gilliam lead blocking (he bumped into Singletary going through the hole instead of leading) and others where the blockers downfield whiffed, leading to a 1-3 yd gain instead of more.

 

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Empty is a fantastic way to get people out of pressure. Forces you to play Cover 0 on the back end if you still want to bring the house. With our weapons I love that matchup.

 

With Davis healthy and able to run his best and McKenzie available, sure.  I know that beautiful deep completion to Davis against LA had them re-thinking the Cover 0 concept.

 

But if you don't have the option of a couple deep threats, does that work very well?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

43 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

When was the last regular RB screen that actually went for more than 5 yards?

 

Err....the play Orlovsky diagrams in the OP was a screen to the RB that went for 16 yds

 

Might I offer you the use of a hand towel to de-egg your face, or by "regular RB screen" do you have specific screen plays in mind that we aren't good at?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Freddie's Dead]

The Bills suck at screens.  Or so I've heard....

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

WR screens seem to be good but RB and TE screens don’t seem as effective. 

 

The OP play commentated by Orlovsky was screen to an RB.  

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Err....the play Orlovsky diagrams in the OP was a regular RB screen that went for 16 yds

 

Might I offer you the use of a hand towel to de-egg your face?

 

No it wasn't.  That was a WR screen thrown to an RB lined up at WR. The fact I have to even explain this is kinda embarrassing for you. 

 

This is a normal screen to an RB. 

 

https://youtu.be/28JHZuhocJ4?t=57

 

May I offer you some football knowledge that is clearly lacking?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Big Turk

[scuba guy]

From worst to best in a week

 

How bad can that be

[78thealltimegreat]

Even if we can’t run the ball that well a couple jet sweeps and screens to keep the safeties honest is really all we kinda need right now. 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No it wasn't.  That was a WR screen thrown to an RB lined up at WR. The fact I have to even explain this is kinda embarrassing for you. 

 

This is a normal screen to an RB. 

 

https://youtu.be/28JHZuhocJ4?t=57

 

May I offer you some football knowledge that is clearly lacking?

 

Certainly you may do so!  In fact I would welcome it!

 

By "regular RB screen" you clearly have specific screen plays in mind, since it's quite a "regular" and "normal" thing for an RB to line up wide these days.

 

Care to define which specific screen play designs you have in mind that the Bills do poorly?

 

PS on what I think is called a "slip screen" in the initial film clip, I think GB could be called for "ineligable man downfield" these days which has been one of the Bills problems with this play design of recent years.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Certainly!  By "regular RB screen" you clearly have specific screen plays in mind, since it's quite a "regular" and "normal" thing for an RB to line up wide these days.

 

Care to define which specific screen plays you have in mind that the Bills do poorly?

 

The kind I just linked to in the video...

 

This is an example of how those usually end up going for the Bills.  Came against the Redskins last year and the Redskins broadcast team use this as an example of "how to stop a screen pass". In general, the Bills are terrible at setting these up properly.  Yes, every once in a while they work well, but by and in large they are terrible looking...the spacing is wrong...the lineman don't seem to be in the right position and the defenders are not fooled and are sitting there waiting for the RB in the backfield.

 

https://www.commanders.com/video/film-breakdown-how-to-stop-the-screen-pass