extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and his YPC has consistently declined each year. So what if he was injured last year, this is the NFL, next man up. If you take out his 43 yard run yesterday, which is the longest of his career, he's averaging less than 3 yards per carry this season. That drive where we handed it off to him every play, what logic was that? He's not even a change of pace, he's the same size as Motor, so he doesn't present a true bruiser type run threat. I'd rather him not take away carries from Cook or Motor, who can actually break a big play. Edited September 26, 2022 by extrahammer updated title 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Not sure why he is that guy either. He missed the block on the S on the sack/strip of Josh. And on his long run, all I could think of was that's a long TD if Cook ran that same play. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) Because Singletary is a JAG and James Cook is a rookie who has to earn his playing time. Bigger issue is our run blocking and run scheme. We're a pass-centric offense, it is what it is, but the issues seem more related to the OL. Edited September 26, 2022 by SCBills 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I still think that the two worst playcalls of the day were 1) Not going after Tua on 3rd and 22 2) Being up 7-0, forcing Miami to punt, and then handing the ball to Moss on 1st and 2nd down for minimal gains to start 2nd drive (led to sack fumble). Honestly, that frustration stuck with me the entire game as it mad ZERO, I mean ZEROOOO sense. 13 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and he fumbled in Week 1 too. Change of pace is a stupid term. Anyway, Cook was coming in for Singeltary most of the game 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Not sure why he is that guy either. He missed the block on the S on the sack/strip of Josh. And on his long run, all I could think of was that's a long TD if Cook ran that same play. That long run i think half of the NFL rbs score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and he fumbled in Week 1 too. Seems like people don't want to see key plays he makes and just ignore them like they didn't happen. Did you not see the big 3rd down conversion he had when he ducked under a Dolphin tackle attempt 3 yards short of th first down and ended up getting it? He has had a few catches like this on 3rd down that converted critical 3rd downs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, SCBills said: Because Singletary is a JAG and James Cook is a rookie who has to earn his playing time. Bigger issue is our run blocking and run scheme. We're a pass-centric offense, it is what it is, but the issues seem more related to the OL. I'll agree Singletary is a JAG, but Moss isn't even a JAG. He's well below replacement level and very well may be the worst RB in the league relative to how many touches he gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 Just now, Big Turk said: Seems like people don't want to see key plays he makes and just ignore them like they didn't happen. Did you not see the big 3rd down conversion he had when he ducked under a Dolphin tackle attempt 3 yards short of th first down and ended up getting it? He has had a few catches like this on 3rd down that converted critical 3rd downs. I've seen every play of him as a Bill, he's our worst offensive playmaker and yet yesterday we kept feeding him the ball. One drive early in the game was all Moss. How and why is that even possible? 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and he fumbled in Week 1 too. Because Devin Singletary is 15 for 32 in his last two games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I just figured he knows where Dorsey hides the bodies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, extrahammer said: I've seen every play of him as a Bill, he's our worst offensive playmaker and yet yesterday we kept feeding him the ball. One drive early in the game was all Moss. How and why is that even possible? Maybe because they see him everyday in practice and you don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) Considering that for the first time cook got more playing time and moss wasn't seen again until the 4th right after a couple really bad series by moss tells me moss might be falling fast Honestly if he doesn't have that 46 yard run when he comes back in I wouldn't have been shocked to see the bills cut him and bring in duke Johnson (Also had a great catch and play for a first down late too) Edited September 26, 2022 by Cheektowaga Chad 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 Just now, Big Turk said: Maybe because they see him everyday in practice and you don't? I'm just highlighting the pattern over 3 years worth of games where he hasn't been a playmaker for us. But you are right I am not at practices. 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 No. Next question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poblano Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 13 minutes ago, freddyjj said: He missed the block on the S on the sack/strip of Josh. It was Singletary along Dawkins who missed that block. It's funny how in an attempt to demerit a player, he is blamed for things that he is not guilty of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard bills fan Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 he hasn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, extrahammer said: I'm just highlighting the pattern over 3 years worth of games where he hasn't been a playmaker for us. But you are right I am not at practices. 🙄 Maybe because the coaches forgot more about football than you'll ever know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
298Woody Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 The running game ended with three starting linemen out. They had players playing out of position to fill a spot and there was no chance to have the blocking technique required against a steeler defense. Our backs had no space to make a move or drive through a tackle. That's not to say we need output from the RB group but snapping the ball was a problem all game too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Does JAG mean Josh Allen Guy? Or what ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Maybe because the coaches forgot more about football than you'll ever know? You seem to take this personally. I acknowledged I'm not a coach. That doesn't mean I don't have any football IQ dude. The guy hasn't been a playmaker so if you are a coach and all you have is practice performance as an excuse why he's on the field, that's called ignorance. He doesn't really offer much as a change of pace back. He's basically the same size as Singletary. Even in his limited role he's turned the ball over a lot. Maybe you can enlighten us about his practices Mr. Snide? Edited September 26, 2022 by extrahammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 1 minute ago, DallasBillsFan1 said: Does JAG mean Josh Allen Guy? Or what ... Just Another Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 29 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and he fumbled in Week 1 too. By doing well in year one, fighting through an injury last year and by winning the coaches' confidence. The long run yesterday can't have hurt. And the blame yesterday should be spread around. The coaches get their share but most was on flukes, horrendous weather and injuries. The players get some but that happens in situations that abnormal and unhealthy. The coaches get a bit but their share yesterday was not that large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: By doing well in year one, fighting through an injury last year and by winning the coaches' confidence. The long run yesterday can't have hurt. And the blame yesterday should be spread around. The coaches get their share but most was on flukes, horrendous weather and injuries. The players get some but that happens in situations that abnormal and unhealthy. The coaches get a bit but their share yesterday was not that large. I'm not blaming Moss for the loss, but I am confused after 3 years why he continues to get opportunities and not make the most of them. I totally understand a lot of people here get excited that a 3rd year change of pace RB finally had a run more than 30 yards, but I don't when I consider all of our skill positions. His 3 other carries yesterday resulted in 1 yard each. My point is he doesn't add any real contributions or talent to this offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, extrahammer said: You seem to take this personally. I acknowledged I'm not a coach. That doesn't mean I don't have any football IQ dude. The guy hasn't been a playmaker so if you are a coach and all you have is practice performance as an excuse why he's on the field, that's called ignorance. He doesn't really offer much as a change of pace back. He's basically the same size as Singletary. Even in his limited role he's turned the ball over a lot. Maybe you can enlighten us about his practices Mr. Snide? It's called ignorance that as a coach you have extra information and you use it? Um, no. It's called ignorance if you don't have that information and think you know more than the people who do have it. He's more of a hammer and a short yardage back than Singletary. And three turnovers over three years isn't statistically significant with his volume. 7 minutes ago, extrahammer said: I'm not blaming Moss for the loss, but I am confused after 3 years why he continues to get opportunities and not make the most of them. I totally understand a lot of people here get excited that a 3rd year change of pace RB finally had a run more than 30 yards, but I don't when I consider all of our skill positions. His 3 other carries yesterday resulted in 1 yard each. My point is he doesn't add any real contributions or talent to this offense. They think you're wrong. So do I. And it doesn't really make sense that he hasn't added any contributions. He managed 4.3 YPC as a rookie. That shows a guy who can contribute. So does 78 yards in 13 attempts this year. Edited September 26, 2022 by Thurman#1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 23 minutes ago, DallasBillsFan1 said: Does JAG mean Josh Allen Guy? Or what ... Just another grapefruit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyobills89 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I might be in the minority but I'd actually like to see Duke in a game. I mean he has had success in the league before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 ------ I disliked that his entire Instagram story feed was a highlight reel of his best runs. That's not the process and message you share after that loss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: He's more of a hammer and a short yardage back than Singletary. And three turnovers over three years isn't statistically significant with his volume. They think you're wrong. So do I. And it doesn't really make sense that he hasn't added any contributions. He managed 4.3 YPC as a rookie. That shows a guy who can contribute. Great so we're still waiting after 3 years for his potential to develop and ignoring the fact he regressed from 4.3 ypc to 3.6 last year. If you take away his 43 yard run yesterday, he's been averaging less than 3 ypc this year. But I get your point, Peterman was a hall of famer in practice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Not taking away blame on our coaches yesterday, but how has he earned his place as the change of pace back in this offense? It doesn't make sense to me. Where are the results? Yesterday was his best game because of a 43 yard run? He's been here 3 years and he fumbled in Week 1 too. Zack Moss is too slow and anyone who follows this team has seen that from Day 1. That whole "business decisions" nonsense, the guy is not bigger than your average NFL RB. When Allen was desperately searching for anyone that could make a play, James Cook had some nice snaps. But he doesn't play because McDermott doesn't play rookies over worn-out vets, see Singletary/Gore, John Brown/Emmanuel Sanders/Gabe Davis, Isaiah McKenzie vs Cole Beasley. Cook has more juice, but McDermott is insistent on the "physicality". And yes I know McKenzie was not a rookie last year. Edited September 26, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 1 minute ago, extrahammer said: Great so we're still waiting after 3 years for his potential to develop and ignoring the fact he regressed from 4.3 ypc to 3.6 last year. If you take away his 43 yard run yesterday, he's been averaging less than 3 ypc this year. But I get your point, Peterman was a hall of famer in practice too. He was injured last year. And if you take away the best 10% or so of their runs, nearly every RB will have much worse stats. You don't take away his best run. You look at what he's done. All of it. And the Peterman comparison is genuinely stupid. Moss has already had one good year and now a start of another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 39 minutes ago, poblano said: It was Singletary along Dawkins who missed that block. It's funny how in an attempt to demerit a player, he is blamed for things that he is not guilty of I stand corrected - Moss was in on prior 2 plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Moss has the longest run, set us up nice in Fins territory. other than that didn't think Singletary or Cook looked much better than him. Pretty uninspired run game. But then again the whole Oline except Dawkins was out & we had a 3rd string center, that didn't help. I'm still waiting to see that speed from Cook, I've heard so much about, he's been kind of disappointing so far for a 2nd round pick, but it's super early yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 55 minutes ago, SCBills said: Because Singletary is a JAG and James Cook is a rookie who has to earn his playing time. Bigger issue is our run blocking and run scheme. We're a pass-centric offense, it is what it is, but the issues seem more related to the OL. Singletary is a very good back. Not elite, or close. But very solid. The guy has put up 4.7 YPC despite running behind OLs with issues for a lot of his time here. When the OL came around late last year Singletary was able to show himself as the very good back that he is. And you're right about the OL. This is a new scheme and the OL had very little time to gel this preseason with injuries. Joe B. took a look at yards before contact for Bills RBs this year and found they're getting hit very very early. The OL is having problems. Hopefully things will get better as the year proceeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 Just now, Thurman#1 said: He was injured last year. And if you take away the best 10% or so of their runs, nearly every RB will have much worse stats. You don't take away his best run. You look at what he's done. All of it. And the Peterman comparison is genuinely stupid. Moss has already had one good year and now a start of another one. Injury excuses as benefit of the doubt are genuinely stupid, but hey, with that logic why not go ahead and give him a 4 year extension. Maybe after he's given 1,000 opportunities he'll finally show some contributions. When you look at his career total, he's regressed in this offense every year and he doesn't offer anything that we don't already have. Singletary runs better between the tackles than he does. But you're right, I'm not a football coach, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Just now, Donuts and Doritos said: Moss has the longest run, set us up nice in Fins territory. other than that didn't think Singletary or Cook looked much better than him. Pretty uninspired run game. But then again the whole Oline except Dawkins was out & we had a 3rd string center, that didn't help. I'm still waiting to see that speed from Cook, I've heard so much about, he's been kind of disappointing so far for a 2nd round pick, but it's super early yet. If today they just made James Cook the starter, I think this run game gets better just for fact they picked a guy. I think he could get you 50 yards/game on the ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, extrahammer said: Injury excuses as benefit of the doubt are genuinely stupid, but hey, with that logic why not go ahead and give him a 4 year extension. Maybe after he's given 1,000 opportunities he'll finally show some contributions. When you look at his career total, he's regressed in this offense every year and he doesn't offer anything that we don't already have. Singletary runs better between the tackles than he does. But you're right, I'm not a football coach, lol. People who ignore information are genuinely stupid. Particularly when that information that has a very real effect on the question you're looking at. Injuries do. And you have to ignore reality to say that Moss has regressed every year. A guy who is running at a 6.0 YPC pace right now behind an OL that is not blocking the run well is not suffering from regression. You're acting as if your opinion is a fact here. And it's not even a particularly good opinion in this case. He does offer something Singletary doesn't. Power in short yardage situations. The fact you don't see it says more about you than about Moss. You don't like him? Fine, whatever. We all like and dislike different players for different reasons. But that doesn't mean ignoring a lot of things about him makes any sense. Edited September 26, 2022 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Changing the title didn't make this thread any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 I'm just not as anti-Moss (or any of our RBs) as many seem to be. Our O-line is a poor run-blocking unit as it is, and injuries compound that weakness even more. Until the Bills really invest in the O-line & commit to running the ball through even one game, I can't really draw many conclusions about Moss, even if he looks bad on a handful of carries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 Just now, Thurman#1 said: People who ignore information are genuinely stupid. Particularly when that information that has a very real effect on the question you're looking at. Injuries do. And you have to ignore reality to say that Moss has regressed every year. A guy who is running at a 6.0 YPC pace right now behind an OL that is not blocking the run well is not suffering from regression. You're acting as if your opinion is a fact here. And it's not even a particularly good opinion in this case. And a guy who has Clearly you're a guy who doesn't look at nuances or details. Oh wow, 6 yards per carry even though more than half of them came on one carry, lol... let's revisit this thread at the end of the season and see if he keeps that up. Looking at his pattern of play, I definitely don't believe he will. At this point, he's taking carries away from our two best playmakers at the RB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.