OBJ responds to rumor he signed with the Bills

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, StHustle said:

I know most here would hate the idea of bringing in OBJ...most have the wrong idea he is a bad teammate. He actually has GREAT reviews from former teammates and just hated being in terrible situations the same way Diggs did. Now his off the field/out of the locker room behavior is definitely to be questioned. Anyway here is the tweet and Ryan Talbot article:

 

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2022/07/odell-beckham-jr-signs-with-bills-thats-what-star-wr-woke-up-thinking.html

 

Looks like he won't be ready til almost playoff time. I wouldn't hate this idea if the situation at that time called for us to add a WR. As far as cap goes, at this point I don't put nothing past Beane as far as figuring it out. OBJ would be VERY good in this offense!

Eh!  I have read that he’s weird and asks for strange, like specific food that is not normally provided.  When you make the money he does, go buy it yourself!

[SydneyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The only time I’ll support a 3 tight end offense.

 

Meh, I'll stick with the slut receiver.

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

 

 Not to mention the advantages the Bills will get on rtp calls as refs are gonna protect top face of the NFL players which Josh Allen has certainly risen to one of the top players that fans from all teams seem to enjoy watching when their teams are not affected.

I can and I can't see this happening. 

 

Brady had been the only qb to look at the refs in the past decade and gets the rtp call. Others have gotten them for sure with close calls but in Allen's case, his ability and willingness to run into/over defenders could work against him. 

[The Dean]

8 hours ago, NoSaint said:

he was making a joke in the tweet. He didn’t literally think he signed. 

 

That's exactly my impression from this. 

 

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

There is no "rumor" he signed with the Bills. It's him laughing at a fake Twitter sh-tposting. There's no fire because there is no smoke. It's from @BleatcherReport, not @BleacherReport.

 

I'd be totally for it. But this is nothing.

 

 

Not a rumor. Just a hoax and a joke.

 

But it's on the Internet. It must be true!

[Southern_Bills]

If you get the OBJ that the Rams had last year that's great. He was definitely a team guy last year with none of the antics from previous years IMO.

 

He's always been a good WR, just have to get him to buy in. I believe we have a strong enough locker room to make it happen.

 

Not saying I'd break the bank or anything, but if he's available and has a good attitude why not.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

We now have people denying that Jake Kumerow is the 3rd man on the boundary receiver depth chart going into camp. 

 

And we apparently have an offense where it doesn't matter if the X or Z receiver is 5'7"(McKenzie) or has 29" arms(Shakir)..........because.........I guess the Bills boundary receivers don't have to get off of press coverage by the long limbed athletes that occupy the boundary CB positions in the NFL?   

 

Do the motion rules no longer apply to the Bills?   Maybe due to their proximity to the Canadian border the Bills have a special exemption to run a CFL style offense where all receivers can be at motion at the snap?

 

With each passing day we get deeper into the reaches of the offseason when people start believing in fairy tales.    

 

When the pads start popping the facts start dropping...........can't get here soon enough. 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

we have a lot of slot depth,

 

but behind diggs we have high hopes that Davis steps up and not a lot else?

 

 

A lot of that "slot depth" might easily also play outside and very well. They know far more about that than we do, but it's certainly very possible.

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

We now have people denying that Jake Kumerow is the 3rd man on the boundary receiver depth chart going into camp. 

 

And we apparently have an offense where it doesn't matter if the X or Z receiver is 5'7"(McKenzie) or has 29" arms(Shakir)..........because.........I guess the Bills boundary receivers don't have to get off of press coverage by the long limbed athletes that occupy the boundary CB positions in the NFL?   

 

Do the motion rules no longer apply to the Bills?   Maybe due to their proximity to the Canadian border the Bills have a special exemption to run a CFL style offense where all receivers can be at motion at the snap?

 

With each passing day we get deeper into the reaches of the offseason when people start believing in fairy tales.    

 

When the pads start popping the facts start dropping...........can't get here soon enough. 

 

 

Where's your proof that he is?

 

Has McDermott said so? Kumerow? Anyone except a few loudmouths on this board? I'd love to see the links.

 

And anyone who thinks that there aren't some very fine short and short-armed WRs playing boundary in this league is clueless.

 

Khalil Shakir, as just one example, is the same height and arm length as John Brown. I remember well how they used to howl like wolves at night about how they wished they could play Brown outside, but they just couldn't because he was too small. "Oh, woe, they used to scream, if only we could play Brown outside ... but we can't because of the 'press coverage by the long-limbed athletes that occupy the boundary CB positions in the NFL!!!' Oh woe, oh misery, oh the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." Then, if I remember correctly there was a lot of teeth-gnashing and wailing. 

 

Oh, wait.

 

Crowder has also lined up wide regularly, though not in the majority of his snaps.

 

You've got a guess there that's completely without foundation and you're insisting it's a fact. 

 

 

 

It ain't.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

A lot of that "slot depth" might easily also play outside and very well. They know far more about that than we do, but it's certainly very possible.

 

 

 

Where's your proof that he is?

 

Has McDermott said so? Kumerow? Anyone except a few loudmouths on this board? I'd love to see the links.

 

And anyone who thinks that there aren't some very fine short and short-armed WRs playing boundary in this league is clueless.

 

Khalil Shakir, as just one example, is the same height and arm length as John Brown. I remember well how they used to howl like wolves at night about how they wished they could play Brown outside, but they just couldn't because he was too small. "Oh, woe, they used to scream, if only we could play Brown outside ... but we can't because of the 'press coverage by the long-limbed athletes that occupy the boundary CB positions in the NFL!!!' Oh woe, oh misery, oh the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." Then, if I remember correctly there was a lot of teeth-gnashing and wailing. 

 

Oh, wait.

 

You've got a guess there that's completely without foundation and you're insisting it's a fact. 

 

 

 

It ain't.

 

 

 

 

Honestly I shouldn't even indulge your trollish, fact and football deficient responses.

 

But for the purpose of informing.......my proof is simple.........there isn't another larger receiver near the top of the depth chart OR any extraordinarily fast average sized veteran or high pedigree draft pick in line to take the job from Kumerow.

 

He will enter camp as that 3rd option outside.   Maybe Stevenson gets into the mix but other than that it's just a bunch of slot receivers.

 

You can play a shorter player like the 5'10" 30 1/2" armed Brown on the outside.........7 players gotta be on the LOS..........so when you are in 11 personnel you can have 2 receivers off the LOS..........that would be the Z receiver in this case.

 

But John Brown was very good at the Z because he was a VERY FAST......a legit 4.3 guy......as well as being a PROVEN great tracker of the football downfield.

 

Crowder and McKenzie have proven to be slot-only players in their career.......they aren't beating anyone deep on the outside.

 

Shakir ran a 4.43 on the new, faster track at Indy.........about the equivalent of a 4.5 in past testing seasons.

 

Shakir has shown the ability to track the deep ball well, IMO.........but he isn't running past NFL boundary CB's like a John Brown with that modest speed.  

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

my proof is simple.........there isn't another larger receiver near the top of the depth chart OR any extraordinarily fast average sized veteran or high pedigree draft pick in line to take the job from Kumerow.

 

 

Correct. However, the only one who insists that that's the only kind of vet who can take the job from Kumerow is you.

 

We have several guys who might take the job from Kumerow. The fact that they don't meet some internet schmo's qualifications means absolutely nothing.

 

What you've got there is proof only that you - personally - have qualifications and some guys don't meet them.  Doesn't prove squat about who'll be the #3.

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He will enter camp as that 3rd option outside.

 

 

 

How sad should I feel for you that you don't know a guess from a fact. Again, what you've got there is a guess.

 

They've already specifically said that Shakir is not just a slot. The fact that you disagree is not going to be a concern for them.

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He will enter camp as that 3rd option outside.   Maybe Stevenson gets into the mix but other than that it's just a bunch of slot receivers.

 

You can play a shorter player like the 5'10" 30 1/2" armed Brown on the outside.........7 players gotta be on the LOS..........so when you are in 11 personnel you can have 2 receivers off the LOS..........that would be the Z receiver in this case.

 

But John Brown was very good at the Z because he was a VERY FAST......a legit 4.3 guy......as well as being a PROVEN great tracker of the football downfield.

 

 

And again, more nonsense. There have been plenty of shorter guys who've played outside without being wildly fast. Golden Tate was about the same as Shakir and McKenzie and while Tate has played plenty of slot he's also played very successfully outside. Which is the point. Plenty of guys can do both. You're kidding yourself if you don't admit that. Manny Sanders isn't big and while he once ran a 4.41, that was a long long time ago. Sanders wasn't "beating anyone on the outside" unless he did it by outfaking them, which is one of many ways to play outside when you're not all that tall.

 

You consistently play this game, the "Let's move the goalpost" game. You say small guys can't play outside. I point out some small guys who play outside. You move the goalposts and say, "No, that guy was small but super fast." I point out some guys who played outside despite being small and not superfast.

 

And your next move is to move the goalposts again. It's bull####. What's next, their last names don't start with vowels?

 

Guys like these have played outside in the NFL successfully, The fact that they don't meet some guy on the internet's qualifications is entirely, completely and utterly beside the point.

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Crowder and McKenzie have proven to be slot-only players in their career.......they aren't beating anyone deep on the outside.

 

Shakir ran a 4.43 on the new, faster track at Indy.........about the equivalent of a 4.5 in past testing seasons.

 

Shakir has shown the ability to track the deep ball well, IMO.........but he isn't running past NFL boundary CB's like a John Brown with that modest speed.  

 

 

 

Simply wrong. Crowder played a lot of snaps outside in Washington and before. Not the majority, but he's already done it successfully. That's far more important than that you don't think he can do it.

 

What you have there is an opinion. I don't think it's even an especially good one.

 

That you've mistaken it for a fact is your problem, not ours.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[AuntieEm]

14 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I can and I can't see this happening. 

 

Brady had been the only qb to look at the refs in the past decade and gets the rtp call. Others have gotten them for sure with close calls but in Allen's case, his ability and willingness to run into/over defenders could work against him. 

 

 I agree he'll never get the calls as frequently as Brady has in the past.  That's just a bonus added by Josh being the much superior athlete than Brady with probably equal measures of football IQ and competitiveness to round out their abilities.  Age also gives Josh a bit of an edge as he can bounce back easier from bumps and bruises along the way to the post season.  So he won't get the quick calls but his abilities take advantage of the extra few seconds a defender has to secure the tackle while not being overly rough and probably, having to fight off a stiff arm that may cause that defender to disengage to avoid injury to themselves.  The best part I've enjoyed so far on this ticket to the JA17 Experience is that when the team does get stopped or gets penalized and converting x and long whatever the down its not even that concerning.  With Josh all that matters is he has a down left moreso than the yardage.  And that's where the star power will payoff.   Also I expect that OL is given a bit more leeway when the guy behind them is a star QB as opposed to one of the bottom QB.

 

[Don Otreply]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Correct. However, the only one who insists that that's the only kind of vet who can take the job from Kumerow is you.

 

We have several guys who might take the job from Kumerow. The fact that they don't meet some internet schmo's qualifications means absolutely nothing.

 

What you've got there is proof only that you - personally - have qualifications and some guys don't meet them.  Doesn't prove squat about who'll be the #3.

 

 

 

How sad should I feel for you that you don't know a guess from a fact. Again, what you've got there is a guess.

 

They've already specifically said that Shakir is not just a slot. The fact that you disagree is not going to be a concern for them.

 

 

And again, more nonsense. There have been plenty of shorter guys who've played outside without being wildly fast. Golden Tate was about the same as Shakir and McKenzie and while Tate has played plenty of slot he's also played very successfully outside. Which is the point. Plenty of guys can do both. You're kidding yourself if you don't admit that. Manny Sanders isn't big and while he once ran a 4.41, that was a long long time ago. Sanders wasn't "beating anyone on the outside" unless he did it by outfaking them, which is one of many ways to play outside when you're not all that tall.

 

You consistently play this game, the "Let's move the goalpost" game. You say small guys can't play outside. I point out some small guys who play outside. You move the goalposts and say, "No, that guy was small but super fast." I point out some guys who played outside despite being small and not superfast.

 

And your next move is to move the goalposts again. It's bull####. What's next, their last names don't start with vowels?

 

Guys like these have played outside in the NFL successfully, The fact that they don't meet some guy on the internet's qualifications is entirely, completely and utterly beside the point.

 

 

 

Simply wrong. Crowder played a lot of snaps outside in Washington and before. Not the majority, but he's already done it successfully. That's far more important than that you don't think he can do it.

 

What you have there is an opinion. I don't think it's even an especially good one.

 

That you've mistaken it for a fact is your problem, not ours.

 

 

When Bado gets on a roll there’s no stopping his relentless opinionizing, 😁👍

[ColoradoBills]

This "Who is the #3 Outside WR" stuff has been talked to death.  While I can understand some fans concern, I think it is being blow out of proportion.

 

Going into camp it's my opinion that it's wide open as to the depth chart for that position.

Right now, it's between Kumerow, Shakir, Hodgins and Stevenson.  On paper I can see that looking weak to some fans but I'm going to

wait and see how camp goes.  The best of these guys will spend some time on the 1st team during the summer and IF all 4 cannot

come close to filling that role I'm sure it will be addressed by Beane and McDermott.

 

At the close of camps there will be more options to fill that spot (if need be) along with some UFAs still available.  Let's wait and see what happens.

Let's also remember that Josh Allen is our QB and if a WR is needed the Bills will be on the top of available players lists!

[blacklabel]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:43 AM, Rigby said:

I would rather cover my schlong in honey and put it in a fire ants nest instead of signing OBJ...but that's just me.

 

Hey, you don't threaten me with a good time, fella.

 

Also, eff OBJ. He's a doofus. That game where he ran around trying to fight that one DB that shut him down all day told me all I need to know about him. Also that one time he got hit by the kicking net, hahaha. His best days are well behind him and this knee injury isn't gonna do much to help him find the form he's been chasing since like his third season or whenever things derailed for him with injuries and off-field crap and blah blah blah. 

[co_springs_billsfan]

19 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Meh, I'll stick with the slut receiver.

Personally I prefer using the DD gap

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Correct. However, the only one who insists that that's the only kind of vet who can take the job from Kumerow is you.

 

We have several guys who might take the job from Kumerow. The fact that they don't meet some internet schmo's qualifications means absolutely nothing.

 

What you've got there is proof only that you - personally - have qualifications and some guys don't meet them.  Doesn't prove squat about who'll be the #3.

 

 

 

How sad should I feel for you that you don't know a guess from a fact. Again, what you've got there is a guess.

 

They've already specifically said that Shakir is not just a slot. The fact that you disagree is not going to be a concern for them.

 

 

And again, more nonsense. There have been plenty of shorter guys who've played outside without being wildly fast. Golden Tate was about the same as Shakir and McKenzie and while Tate has played plenty of slot he's also played very successfully outside. Which is the point. Plenty of guys can do both. You're kidding yourself if you don't admit that. Manny Sanders isn't big and while he once ran a 4.41, that was a long long time ago. Sanders wasn't "beating anyone on the outside" unless he did it by outfaking them, which is one of many ways to play outside when you're not all that tall.

 

You consistently play this game, the "Let's move the goalpost" game. You say small guys can't play outside. I point out some small guys who play outside. You move the goalposts and say, "No, that guy was small but super fast." I point out some guys who played outside despite being small and not superfast.

 

And your next move is to move the goalposts again. It's bull####. What's next, their last names don't start with vowels?

 

Guys like these have played outside in the NFL successfully, The fact that they don't meet some guy on the internet's qualifications is entirely, completely and utterly beside the point.

 

 

 

Simply wrong. Crowder played a lot of snaps outside in Washington and before. Not the majority, but he's already done it successfully. That's far more important than that you don't think he can do it.

 

What you have there is an opinion. I don't think it's even an especially good one.

 

That you've mistaken it for a fact is your problem, not ours.

 

 

 

 

Emmanuel Sanders is 5'11" with 32" arms to get off the press and extend in contested catch situations........your assertion that he was a small receiver is false........he was an average sized target on the boundary.

 

McKenzie is 5'7"

Crowder 5'9"

Shakir is 6' but has very short 29" arms......same length as the 5'7" McKenzie......and over 3" shorter than a CB like Tre White who he would be facing on the perimeter.

 

Those players are not well suited to matchup physically with bigger CB's on the perimeter.........they function best in the slot where they can be in motion at the snap and run routes horizontally in both directions and take advantage of their quickness.     

 

On the boundary bigger CB's have the sideline at their disposal to negate a great deal of the quickness that smaller, quicker slot receivers can use in the slot.

 

Then you have the fact that they are are size disadvantaged in contested catch situations..........and that they represent a smaller catch radius for the QB to throw into............and this is all before you know whether they can actually track a ball thrown 30 or 40 yards and catch it without stopping their feet........as opposed to 10-15 yards like they tend to see from the slot.    

 

This is passing game 101.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Emmanuel Sanders is 5'11" with 32" arms to get off the press and extend in contested catch situations........your assertion that he was a small receiver is false........he was an average sized target on the boundary.

 

McKenzie is 5'7"

Crowder 5'9"

Shakir is 6' but has very short 29" arms......same length as the 5'7" McKenzie......and over 3" shorter than a CB like Tre White who he would be facing on the perimeter.

 

Those players are not well suited to matchup physically with bigger CB's on the perimeter.........they function best in the slot where they can be in motion at the snap and run routes horizontally in both directions and take advantage of their quickness.     

 

On the boundary bigger CB's have the sideline at their disposal to negate a great deal of the quickness that smaller, quicker slot receivers can use in the slot.

 

Then you have the fact that they are are size disadvantaged in contested catch situations..........and that they represent a smaller catch radius for the QB to throw into............and this is all before you know whether they can actually track a ball thrown 30 or 40 yards and catch it without stopping their feet........as opposed to 10-15 yards like they tend to see from the slot.    

 

This is passing game 101.

I think there are a few things you are running into in this phase of the offseason:

 

1) someone’s done it in his mold before, however rarely, so we probably have 3 guys that can do the same.

 

2) hes made that play before so he can be that guy all day every day. I’ve seen him be capable of catching a ball downfield so how dare you question if he can do it with the skill and consistency of a top tier guy

 

id love for shakir to come in and surprise. Unfortunately Davis is still the guy we are hoping can step up for 16 games. Shakir is a dude we hope makes a couple plays to buy some time to develop into a regular contributor 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Emmanuel Sanders is 5'11" with 32" arms to get off the press and extend in contested catch situations........your assertion that he was a small receiver is false........he was an average sized target on the boundary.

 

McKenzie is 5'7"

Crowder 5'9"

Shakir is 6' but has very short 29" arms......same length as the 5'7" McKenzie......and over 3" shorter than a CB like Tre White who he would be facing on the perimeter.

 

Those players are not well suited to matchup physically with bigger CB's on the perimeter.........they function best in the slot where they can be in motion at the snap and run routes horizontally in both directions and take advantage of their quickness.     

 

On the boundary bigger CB's have the sideline at their disposal to negate a great deal of the quickness that smaller, quicker slot receivers can use in the slot.

 

Then you have the fact that they are are size disadvantaged in contested catch situations..........and that they represent a smaller catch radius for the QB to throw into............and this is all before you know whether they can actually track a ball thrown 30 or 40 yards and catch it without stopping their feet........as opposed to 10-15 yards like they tend to see from the slot.    

 

This is passing game 101.

When you’re talking outside WRs they aren’t equal. In the traditional sense the X is the best most physically gifted WR and lines up on the line of scrimmage. The Z is an outside WR that lines up off the ball. The Z can come in all shapes and sizes because like the slot, they have an easier release being off the ball.

 

The Bills have used a bunch of smaller WRs during Allen’s best seasons. The Bills offense spreads the field. It’s not your traditional offense. We’ll see Diggs lining up at all WR positions.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, BigAl2526 said:

Regardless of the player, signing another top receiver doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now.  The Bills clearly think Gabe Davis is ready to step into a starting role across from Diggs.  Signing OBJ essentially subverts all the development efforts that have gone into Davis.  Moreover, it uses resources that Buffalo could spend on areas of the team that are not as deep and robust as WR, or use those resources to extend players they want to keep if they'd like to continue their elite rankings in the league.

 

For a 1 season, half year rental I'll take OBJ all day.

 

Winning the Super Bowl this year should be priority #1.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

When you’re talking outside WRs they aren’t equal. In the traditional sense the X is the best most physically gifted WR and lines up on the line of scrimmage. The Z is an outside WR that lines up off the ball. The Z can come in all shapes and sizes because like the slot, they have an easier release being off the ball.

 

The Bills have used a bunch of smaller WRs during Allen’s best seasons. The Bills offense spreads the field. It’s not your traditional offense. We’ll see Diggs lining up at all WR positions.

 

 

 

 

Not exactly........the Z can line up off the LOS in 11 personnel.........but only one player can be in motion........that's typically going to be the slot.

 

It's not at all an apples/apples comparison wrt to the ease of release off the ball.........you are still starting from a dead stop and have to make more out of less space(sideline limitations).

 

You aren't going to see players the size of McKenzie or Crowder on the outside very often.

 

Shakir is a weird one because you don't see that T-Rex body type much at receiver.

 

They are all "quicker than fast" typical slots.

 

The Bills offensive approach has not been that unusual.......they aren't operating the run-and-shoot in 1990..........every team with a top passer spreads the field in the passing game.

 

The Bills actions in the offseason were to add run-block first OL.........and the skill players they put the most investment in were a RB and TE...........it feels like we are actually going to see more 12 personnel and less spread.

 

As for Diggs.........yeah, he can play everywhere.........and the Bills would be best served if he could play in the slot a lot.........and they then had two other players who matched up well against boundary CB's on the outside.

 

That's not the case, on paper.

 

People who think McKenzie or Crowder could become the second boundary receiver and play well out there for 50 snaps per game have a very vivid imagination.     

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I think there are a few things you are running into in this phase of the offseason:

 

1) someone’s done it in his mold before, however rarely, so we probably have 3 guys that can do the same.

 

2) hes made that play before so he can be that guy all day every day. I’ve seen him be capable of catching a ball downfield so how dare you question if he can do it with the skill and consistency of a top tier guy

 

id love for shakir to come in and surprise. Unfortunately Davis is still the guy we are hoping can step up for 16 games. Shakir is a dude we hope makes a couple plays to buy some time to develop into a regular contributor 

 

 

1. You are absolutely correct.    Explaining to people that there is a difference between a blazing fast, elite ball tracker like John Brown and the Bills 3 slots is difficult when they don't understand the different abilities necessary to succeed at the two positions. 

 

2. Beasley made some plays outside........I remember a great, leaping one hand catch he made to convert a first down from the Z last season.     But it was like a 3 yard gain.   There is no footage of him streaking down the sideline and catching a 9 route TD along the sideline because he doesn't have the skillset to get over the top of many boundary CB's.

 

I'm interested to see what Shakir becomes.........but they should have addressed the position in the draft sooner.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The Bills actions in the offseason were to add run-block first OL.........and the skill players they put the most investment in were a RB and TE...........it feels like we are actually going to see more 12 personnel and less spread.

I wouldn't be too sure of that as an improved running game against light boxes in 10 or 11 personnel can make a defenses go heavier which creates mismatches and opens things up downfield.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not exactly........the Z can line up off the LOS in 11 personnel.........but only one player can be in motion........that's typically going to be the slot.

 

It's not at all an apples/apples comparison wrt to the ease of release off the ball.........you are still starting from a dead stop and have to make more out of less space(sideline limitations).

 

You aren't going to see players the size of McKenzie or Crowder on the outside very often.

 

Shakir is a weird one because you don't see that T-Rex body type much at receiver.

 

They are all "quicker than fast" typical slots.

 

The Bills offensive approach has not been that unusual.......they aren't operating the run-and-shoot in 1990..........every team with a top passer spreads the field in the passing game.

 

The Bills actions in the offseason were to add run-block first OL.........and the skill players they put the most investment in were a RB and TE...........it feels like we are actually going to see more 12 personnel and less spread.

 

As for Diggs.........yeah, he can play everywhere.........and the Bills would be best served if he could play in the slot a lot.........and they then had two other players who matched up well against boundary CB's on the outside.

 

That's not the case, on paper.

 

People who think McKenzie or Crowder could become the second boundary receiver and play well out there for 50 snaps per game have a very vivid imagination.     

 

Cook is basically another Slot WR. Lol. You’re losing this battle with your favorite front office. It’s not us. Allen has had success with those smaller shifty WR’s. John Brown is very small for a X as well, small arms as well. Allen and Daboll turned out his best career year.

 

With the OC change we might see different personnel groupings but I don’t see a lot changing in terms of route concepts. 
 

Just face it, we love our smallish shifty WRs.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[ddaryl]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:43 AM, Rigby said:

I would rather cover my schlong in honey and put it in a fire ants nest instead of signing OBJ...but that's just me.

The next Tik Tok challenge

[BigAl2526]

10 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

For a 1 season, half year rental I'll take OBJ all day.

 

Winning the Super Bowl this year should be priority #1.  

You think OBJ is interested in being a rental?  Lots of luck with that.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, BigAl2526 said:

You think OBJ is interested in being a rental?  Lots of luck with that.

The lure of winning it all might..

[TheBrownBear]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:43 AM, Rigby said:

I would rather cover my schlong in honey and put it in a fire ants nest instead of signing OBJ...but that's just me.

I'd LOVE to do BOTH!!!....but that's just me.

[FilthyBeast]

I believe this team could still add a veteran WR at some point soon but don't think it will be for big money and pretty sure OBJ is looking for that or he likely already would have resigned with the Rams.

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I wouldn't be too sure of that as an improved running game against light boxes in 10 or 11 personnel can make a defenses go heavier which creates mismatches and opens things up downfield.

 

There is a very big, very "offseason" misconception that spreading out a defense takes the starch out of them in run defense or pass rush.

 

Quite the opposite.........it puts a ton of pass blocking stress on your OL and the QB has to get the ball out quick.

 

Bills found out last year that teams were just pinning their ears back and going for the TFL/sack when the Bills tried to spread them out.

 

The solution to that problem isn't just run blocking better..........it's asking A LOT of a bunch of run-block first OL to excel in the run game with only 5 blockers AND pass block under duress 50 times per game.

 

The solution if you want to run 10-11 all the time is getting yards after the catch because 4-5 receiver sets turn you into a quick passing, dink and dunk offense.........you gotta' be able to toast defense's with short passes.

 

Not a Bills strength.    Worst team in the league in YAC.    

 

James Cook might help with that when he's on the field subbing for Singletary..........and Crowder at one time was a really good YAC guy(lousy last year)............but I suspect they are indeed planning A LOT more 12 personnel and trying to be a more physical front to combat teams that will be VERY hesitant to come out of nickel/dime looks.

 

The downside of that is,  as Ron Jaworski always said, you score points in the passing game.    If you run the ball more, you are taking the ball out of JA's hands more and requiring more plays to score,  which is what defense's prefer as opposed to be scorched for chunk plays in the pass game.  

  

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Cook is basically another Slot WR. Lol. You’re losing this battle with your favorite front office. It’s not us. Allen has had success with those smaller shifty WR’s. John Brown is very small for a X as well, small arms as well. Allen and Daboll turned out his best career year.

 

With the OC change we might see different personnel groupings but I don’t see a lot changing in terms of route concepts. 
 

Just face it, we love our smallish shifty WRs.

 

 

Maybe Cook is just a slot receiver and won't work out as a RB,  you could be right.

 

But let's put his ceiling at Alvin Kamara as a receiving option out of the backfield because Kamara is the current gold standard for receivers out of the backfield.

 

Kamara is a career 8.7 yards per reception guy.........whereas Cole Beasley has a career 10.4 yards per reception average.

 

There is always a difference between a RB and an ACTUAL slot receiver.

 

An average slot receiver is still a better pass option than the best RB.

 

Beasley was panned for having a lousy year last year and getting no YAC and his ypr was actually still better than the great Christian McCaffrey's career AVERAGE.

[MasterStrategist]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Maybe Cook is just a slot receiver and won't work out as a RB,  you could be right.

 

But let's put his ceiling at Alvin Kamara as a receiving option out of the backfield because Kamara is the current gold standard for receivers out of the backfield.

 

Kamara is a career 8.7 yards per reception guy.........whereas Cole Beasley has a career 10.4 yards per reception average.

 

There is always a difference between a RB and an ACTUAL slot receiver.

 

An average slot receiver is still a better pass option than the best RB.

 

Beasley was panned for having a lousy year last year and getting no YAC and his ypr was actually still better than the great Christian McCaffrey's career AVERAGE.

And I'm sure Kamara or McCaffrey lining up in the backfield has nothing to do with their career YPR.

 

Not sure what's so difficult, as someone said, this "outside #3 wr" talk is just ridiculous:

1. Shakir is basically taking Mannys role, but with more Yac/juice/young legs (call it whatever) and more ability from the slot.  He's more than capable of playing outside, but to expect him to replace Mannys numbers isn't what we so called "non worriers" are saying....it's more targets for Gabe, Cook seeing targets, McKenzie getting more PT, and adding a TE2 in Howard who is a solid redzone threat.  Shakir will get his targets, but we absolutely don't need him to replace Mannys stats by himself.

 

2. We will align RBs, TEs, etc outside as the #1 on 15+ snaps per game.  Many times motioning said player, It forces teams to "show" coverage or at least bump a LB/create potential mismatches.

 

3. Press coverage: go ahead and have every team play press man against us, ask Miami or NE how well that faired for them.  KC had success 2 yrs ago, but got away with blatant holding (not to mention Beas and Diggs banged up).  If anyone had issues with getting off the press, it was Smoke... Not sure why this keeps getting brought up as some revelation against smaller WRs....quickness, release and strength having everything to do with it (smoke was not strong at the point).

 

4. Injuries: we had Davis or Manny miss several games last season, not once did we panic and assume Kumerow was going to start.  We had plenty of personell groupings, and if anything, we are better suited this year with a better TE2 and Rb with some wiggle to occupy safety or LBs.

 

Training camp for entire roster can't arrive soon enough...

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

30 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

And I'm sure Kamara or McCaffrey lining up in the backfield has nothing to do with their career YPR.

 

Sure......among other things.

 

You and @Buffalo_Stampede need to get on the same page if you think you are making the same argument............because he doesn't understand the differences between an actual slot receiver and just being a RB who is "good for his position" in the passing game.

 

The fact is that you aren't going to get 10-14 yards per reception......average receiver production..........in any volume from any RB.

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… and I suppose they’ll do even more of that if Davis struggles and/or him or Diggs get hurt…. They could turn into a ground and pound offense pretty quickly…. But maybe that’s what McD secretly wants. 😈

 

Taking the ball out of Josh’s hands is what caused them to get into a 9 point hole against KC in the divisional game… they got way too conservative early/mid game and I recall Romo even calling McD and Daboll out for it…..the last thing I want them to do is get more conservative on offense. 

 

 

Allen took a big leap in 2020.............but he moved into yet another category in the playoffs last season.

 

But the primary reason they were on the road in the playoffs was because the offense as a whole had been inconsistent for most of the regular season.........the pass blocking was terrible and the receiving corps couldn't produce yards after the catch.

 

The Bills response to those events was to sign a bunch of run-block specialists for the OL and continue a two offseason trend of getting less explosive at receiver. 

[Chicken Boo]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:52 AM, BigAl2526 said:

You think OBJ is interested in being a rental?  Lots of luck with that.

 

To play with Josh for another Super Bowl ring, he absolutely would.

 

It only raises his profile and he'd be a free agent again next season.