Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[eball]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is not the DA that has decided not to take to trial. Two Grand Juries refused to indict based on the evidence. It could go back to a grand jury, the article is right. But for the DA to push for another Grand Jury that would need to be a material difference in the evidence. Essentially it needs some physical evidence to be uncovered or third party witness testimony (i.e. someone other than one of the alleged victims witnessing the alleged abuse). 

 

And it is worth saying again he doesn't need to be "exonerated" that isn't the way the criminal law works. You are innocent in the eyes of the law until a criminal courts finds you guilty. You are not and never have been "found innocent."

 

It is also important to note, for those not familiar, that the burden of proof in a criminal case is “beyond a reasonable doubt” — an extraordinarily high standard — while in a civil case the burden is a mere “preponderance of the evidence.”

 

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

It is also important to note, for those not familiar, that the burden of proof in a criminal case is “beyond a reasonable doubt” — an extraordinarily high standard — while in a civil case the burden is a mere “preponderance of the evidence.”

 

The above is true but getting something to trial…..through a Grand Jury is not typically as difficult.  I can see where it would be difficult in a case like this where it is essentially two people calling each other liars.

[cle23]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Agreed. There’s been a lot of comparisons to the Big Ben case, for example, but that was years ago. The gambling suspension recently handed down is much more instructive - it should at least be 2 seasons (and then inevitably adjusted) given the comparative harm to both people (Ridley didn’t hurt anyone physically or emotionally games that he wasn’t a participant in) and reputation (the NFL has already full-throatedly endorsed gambling on sports, putting gambling parlors in their actual places of business. Same can’t be said for Watson’s (alleged) conduct.)

 

There is also a very clear as day policy for the gambling, and 100% evidence that Ridely did it.  I have no idea what Watson did, but based on all the allegations and such, it seems he more than likely did something inappropriate.  How severe is unknown to me at least.  So Ridely's case is pretty cut and dry given the evidence and the clear policy in place.  Watson's is less clear.  Also, you can't use a gambling case as precedence for another case.  They are completely different.  I guarantee that Watson's lawyers will try to use Ben's case as precedent if he is suspended for so much longer than Ben was.

Edited June 24, 2022 by cle23

[Niagara Bill]

So nfl can make a quick 6 game suspension for punching a guy, Kamara, but cannot decided on 24 sex related allegations on Watson. 

Amazing

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

There is also a very clear as day policy for the gambling, and 100% evidence that Ridely did it.  I have no idea what Watson did, but based on all the allegations and such, it seems he more than likely did something inappropriate.  How severe is unknown to me at least.  So Ridely's case is pretty cut and dry given the evidence and the clear policy in place.  Watson's is less clear.  Also, you can't use a gambling case as precedence for another case.  They are completely different.  I guarantee that Watson's lawyers will try to use Ben's case as precedent if he is suspended for so much longer than Ben was.

yes you’re right and I’d argue that application of precedent is completely a**-backwards considering the relative harm involved.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[eball]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I am glad to hear this.  Anything "negotiated" is a win for Watson.

 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I am glad to hear this.  Anything "negotiated" is a win for Watson.

 

I heard from a couple reporters, that they thought the league would negotiate IF he settled. That’s stalled though unless he can get the last 4

Edited June 24, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[eball]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I heard from a couple reporters, that they thought the league would negotiate of he settled. That’s stalled though unless he can get the last 4

 

The lawyer said Solis is going to trial so good luck with that.

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The lawyer said Solis is going to trial so good luck with that.

Everyone has their price.

[eball]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Everyone has their price.

 

No, I get it, most cases settle.  But the lawyer just made a bunch on the first 20 so he can afford to drag this out unless his client wants to end it.

 

[BarleyNY]

44 minutes ago, eball said:

 

No, I get it, most cases settle.  But the lawyer just made a bunch on the first 20 so he can afford to drag this out unless his client wants to end it.

 

Buzbee is the richest person involved in this.  His estimated net worth is $700M. 

[YoloinOhio]

I’m going to the Bills- Browns game on 11/20 and would give anything for that to be his first game back. he might try to negotiate so that his first game back is at home. The mafia 🤣💀

Edited June 24, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[BarleyNY]

51 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The lawyer said Solis is going to trial so good luck with that.

Just like a Watson said he wouldn’t settle any of the cases.  That posturing is usually just negotiation.  Not saying that there aren’t times that people try to make a point or make those decisions emotionally. 

[eball]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Just like a Watson said he wouldn’t settle any of the cases.  That posturing is usually just negotiation.  Not saying that there aren’t times that people try to make a point or make those decisions emotionally. 

 

Watson had no choice.  He can't go to trial 24 (or 26) times.  Buzbee can pick his best case (Solis) and ride it out.

[BarleyNY]

22 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Watson had no choice.  He can't go to trial 24 (or 26) times.  Buzbee can pick his best case (Solis) and ride it out.

Sure Buzbee can.  But so could have Watson.  He did have a choice.  If he really thought he could beat the cases he could’ve taken their best one to court.  If he won that or it returned a minimal judgement, then the plaintiffs in the other (lesser) cases might not be so confident.

 

These last four cases will almost certainly be settled.  Juries are just too unpredictable.  Both sides know what this is really worth.  Buzbee is maximizing his leverage on his best cases by stringing this out to the last minute.

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m going to the Bills- Browns game on 11/20 and would give anything for that to be his first game back. he might try to negotiate so that his first game back is at home. The mafia 🤣💀

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Sure Buzbee can.  But so could have Watson.  He did have a choice.  If he really thought he could beat the cases he could’ve taken their best one to court.  If he won that or it returned a minimal judgement, then the plaintiffs in the other (lesser) cases might not be so confident.

 

These last four cases will almost certainly be settled.  Juries are just too unpredictable.  Both sides know what this is really worth.  Buzbee is maximizing his leverage on his best cases by stringing this out to the last minute.

Unless one of the women has decided that watson being held accountable for his actions is worth more than any settlement

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Unless one of the women has decided that watson being held accountable for his actions is worth more than any settlement

Anything is possible, but I seriously doubt it goes that far.  She’d have to consider the possibility that Watson could win the case and there would be no a big award or accountability.  Just because many have already decided Watson’s guilt, a court case with a jury is a very different matter.  

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Anything is possible, but I seriously doubt it goes that far.  She’d have to consider the possibility that Watson could win the case and there would be no a big award or accountability.  Just because many have already decided Watson’s guilt, a court case with a jury is a very different matter.  

I hear ya..  I’d settle 💯.   Some people just have different values and motives.

[NoSaint]

On 6/23/2022 at 7:04 PM, aristocrat said:

the nfl has to be starting with two seasons. A guy gambling like 1000 bucks got a season. You can’t go light on this. Negotiate  down to 24 or something. If not it’s a pr nightmare 

surely you understand the difference between something that calls into question the authenticity of the product on the field vs responding to a criminal complaint wholly unrelated to Sundays though. 
 

im not minimizing his issue - just pointing out they are apples and oranges to place side by side for employee discipline

On 6/23/2022 at 7:19 PM, Beast said:

 

Watson sat out on his own last season. That should have no influence on a suspension.....not to mention the Texans paid him the whole year.

see if any player ever plays nice in the sandbox with the nfl if zero merit is given to that. 

[Paul Costa]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Anything is possible, but I seriously doubt it goes that far.  She’d have to consider the possibility that Watson could win the case and there would be no a big award or accountability.  Just because many have already decided Watson’s guilt, a court case with a jury is a very different matter.  

Hard to know what what might do when you do not know them or the intricate details of the situation. 🫤

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[maddenboy]

i'm startin to think the Browns were genius in how they did this.  (no sarcasm)

 

As mentioned a couple weeks ago somewhere, and restated on PFT today, Watson's contract tolls during suspension, for a year.  So his device to have his first year of actually playing be under a salary of only $1M was supposed to be to Watson's obvious benefit.

 

But in tolling, the Browns get something too.   They have Watson locked in to a 5 year contract.  That might not start until his current top-of-market salary might only be middle-of-the-road. 

 

imo, THIS is why the Browns havent moved Mayfield.   If Watson is suspended for a year or more, the brown lose nothing.   Not even money, really.  Because they can still Trade watson a couple years from now, if Mayfield balls out, or some other thing.

 

The Browns purchased the rights to Watson.   (instead of strictly just hiring him to be their qb).  So the decided to lock him into a fixed contract.  Solidifying the value of the asset.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

59 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

i'm startin to think the Browns were genius in how they did this.  (no sarcasm)

 

As mentioned a couple weeks ago somewhere, and restated on PFT today, Watson's contract tolls during suspension, for a year.  So his device to have his first year of actually playing be under a salary of only $1M was supposed to be to Watson's obvious benefit.

 

But in tolling, the Browns get something too.   They have Watson locked in to a 5 year contract.  That might not start until his current top-of-market salary might only be middle-of-the-road. 

 

imo, THIS is why the Browns havent moved Mayfield.   If Watson is suspended for a year or more, the brown lose nothing.   Not even money, really.  Because they can still Trade watson a couple years from now, if Mayfield balls out, or some other thing.

 

The Browns purchased the rights to Watson.   (instead of strictly just hiring him to be their qb).  So the decided to lock him into a fixed contract.  Solidifying the value of the asset.

I can think of some words to describe this but genius isn’t one of them. Mayfield is not playing for the Browns again. It is untenable. That ship has sailed. 

[maddenboy]

shrewd?

 

diabolical?

 

soulless?

 

i can agree to each of these.  but i ususally presume that the things smart people do, musta been closer to feindish than stupid.

 

(fully aware of the irony there)

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by maddenboy

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, maddenboy said:

i'm startin to think the Browns were genius in how they did this.  (no sarcasm)

 

As mentioned a couple weeks ago somewhere, and restated on PFT today, Watson's contract tolls during suspension, for a year.  So his device to have his first year of actually playing be under a salary of only $1M was supposed to be to Watson's obvious benefit.

 

But in tolling, the Browns get something too.   They have Watson locked in to a 5 year contract.  That might not start until his current top-of-market salary might only be middle-of-the-road. 

 

imo, THIS is why the Browns havent moved Mayfield.   If Watson is suspended for a year or more, the brown lose nothing.   Not even money, really.  Because they can still Trade watson a couple years from now, if Mayfield balls out, or some other thing.

 

The Browns purchased the rights to Watson.   (instead of strictly just hiring him to be their qb).  So the decided to lock him into a fixed contract.  Solidifying the value of the asset.

Jimmy Haslam's burner account?  

[maddenboy]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Jimmy Haslam's burner account?  

i wasnt including him in the "smart" people.

 

Although people usually agree that super rich people didnt get there by being stupid.  Here, he probably learned that he should hire smart people, like those analytics people.  And high-priced lawyers/negotiators

 

i dont want to beat this to death.  It just seemed to make sense if, and only if, we can begin at "the browns were either very stupid or very shrewd in what they did here."   That's where i was comin from.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by maddenboy

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, maddenboy said:

i wasnt including him in the "smart" people.

 

Although people usually agree that super rich people didnt get there by being stupid.  Here, he probably learned that he should hire smart people, like those analytics people.  And high-priced lawyers/negotiators

 

i dont want to beat this to death.  It just seemed to make sense if, and only if, we can begin at "the browns were either very stupid or very shrewd in what they did here."   That's where i was comin from.

 

They have a team built to win now and it's likely Jacoby Brissett is going to be their starter this year.  Baker is not coming back as the Browns did everything possible to alienate him.  They then will be cash strapped with Watson's contract and don't have a first round pick until 2025.  They also gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick along that same time line.  They forced their fans to defend a guy with 24 civil lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct against him.  The last thing I would call anybody in the Browns front office is "smart."

[maddenboy]

15 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

They have a team built to win now and it's likely Jacoby Brissett is going to be their starter this year.  Baker is not coming back as the Browns did everything possible to alienate him.  They then will be cash strapped with Watson's contract and don't have a first round pick until 2025.  They also gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick along that same time line.  They forced their fans to defend a guy with 24 civil lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct against him.  The last thing I would call anybody in the Browns front office is "smart."

i think mayfield will be back. 

 

he might have no choice.  Getting a full playing season during his prime, to audition for his next team, without having to agree to reduce any of it to facilite a trade, and knowing that he needs to put his best foot forward, and with several built-in excuses if he doesnt win the superbowl or otherwise doesnt set the world on fire.  And knowing he will never agree to stay with the Browns no matter how hard they beg.  And, if he does set the world on fire, everybody wins.   Including the browns.

 

(Honestly, i hope the Browns crash and burn.  Just like i do for every other team that's not the Bills.  I just sleep with one eye open, if you will.  Just that it might be the wrong one sometimes)

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by maddenboy

[Captain Hindsight]

27 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

i think mayfield will be back. 

 

he might have no choice.  Getting a full playing season during his prime, to audition for his next team, without having to agree to reduce any of it to facilite a trade, and knowing that he needs to put his best foot forward, and with several built-in excuses if he doesnt win the superbowl or otherwise doesnt set the world on fire.  And knowing he will never agree to stay with the Browns no matter how hard they beg.  And, if he does set the world on fire, everybody wins.   Including the browns.

 

(Honestly, i hope the Browns crash and burn.  Just like i do for every other team that's not the Bills.  I just sleep with one eye open, if you will.  Just that it might be the wrong one sometimes)

 

 

 

I have a better chance of suiting up for the browns this year than Mayfield 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Captain Hindsight

[PetermansRedemption]

2 hours ago, maddenboy said:

i'm startin to think the Browns were genius in how they did this.  (no sarcasm)

 

As mentioned a couple weeks ago somewhere, and restated on PFT today, Watson's contract tolls during suspension, for a year.  So his device to have his first year of actually playing be under a salary of only $1M was supposed to be to Watson's obvious benefit.

 

But in tolling, the Browns get something too.   They have Watson locked in to a 5 year contract.  That might not start until his current top-of-market salary might only be middle-of-the-road. 

 

imo, THIS is why the Browns havent moved Mayfield.   If Watson is suspended for a year or more, the brown lose nothing.   Not even money, really.  Because they can still Trade watson a couple years from now, if Mayfield balls out, or some other thing.

 

The Browns purchased the rights to Watson.   (instead of strictly just hiring him to be their qb).  So the decided to lock him into a fixed contract.  Solidifying the value of the asset.

They gave up assets of incredibly significant value. You don’t give that up on the hope that the QB you traded for Will play for your team at some point in the future (maybe). You give that up and expect him to play immediately. Browns gonna Brown as they say. 

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

i think mayfield will be back. 

 

he might have no choice.  Getting a full playing season during his prime, to audition for his next team, without having to agree to reduce any of it to facilite a trade, and knowing that he needs to put his best foot forward, and with several built-in excuses if he doesnt win the superbowl or otherwise doesnt set the world on fire.  And knowing he will never agree to stay with the Browns no matter how hard they beg.  And, if he does set the world on fire, everybody wins.   Including the browns.

 

(Honestly, i hope the Browns crash and burn.  Just like i do for every other team that's not the Bills.  I just sleep with one eye open, if you will.  Just that it might be the wrong one sometimes)

 

They'll trade Mayfield, probably to the Seahawks.  At the latest the 3rd pre-season game when fans get a chance to see extended action of Drew Lock and/or Geno Smith.

[maddenboy]

45 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

They gave up assets of incredibly significant value. You don’t give that up on the hope that the QB you traded for Will play for your team at some point in the future (maybe). You give that up and expect him to play immediately. Browns gonna Brown as they say. 

but my point is, if i'm onto something at all, is that they purchased an asset.  Its like buying a ferrari for your 15 year old daughter.  she cannot drive yet but when she is old enuf, even if she has another car, its still a Ferrari, barely scratched, and i can sell it.

 

i might not get allllll my money back.  but i can calculate the risks up front.  then acquire an asset.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I’m telling you the contract structure he got is going to be a point of anger in the league offices.

[maddenboy]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They'll trade Mayfield, probably to the Seahawks.  At the latest the 3rd pre-season game when fans get a chance to see extended action of Drew Lock and/or Geno Smith.

i actually think the seahawks makes too much sense to not happen.

 

But i'm still stuck at "if the browns trade him at all."

 

And for the record:  i like baker mayfield and think he is underrated, but just a little bit.  And i think Watson is overrated a bit, but i love his game and his ceiling as a player is high. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, maddenboy said:

i'm startin to think the Browns were genius in how they did this.  (no sarcasm)

 

As mentioned a couple weeks ago somewhere, and restated on PFT today, Watson's contract tolls during suspension, for a year.  So his device to have his first year of actually playing be under a salary of only $1M was supposed to be to Watson's obvious benefit.

 

But in tolling, the Browns get something too.   They have Watson locked in to a 5 year contract.  That might not start until his current top-of-market salary might only be middle-of-the-road. 

 

imo, THIS is why the Browns havent moved Mayfield.   If Watson is suspended for a year or more, the brown lose nothing.   Not even money, really.  Because they can still Trade watson a couple years from now, if Mayfield balls out, or some other thing.

 

The Browns purchased the rights to Watson.   (instead of strictly just hiring him to be their qb).  So the decided to lock him into a fixed contract.  Solidifying the value of the asset.

So you don’t think that the problems in the locker room are gonna superseed all that it’s more than just about money

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I have a better chance of suiting up for the browns this year than Mayfield 

The Browns have around 41 million in cap space and Baker is set to make 19 million.  Baker should say give me a $27m dollar raise to get me to a $46m one year deal and I'll bail you out.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Doc Brown

[ALF]

June 25, 2022 7:18pm EDT
Browns' Deshaun Watson disciplinary hearing set to begin Tuesday: report
The decision in Deshaun Watson's disciplinary hearing could reportedly come as early as a week

 

League sources told ESPN on Saturday that Watson’s hearing before the NFLPA and the league’s jointly appointed disciplinary officer, Sue L. Robinson, is scheduled to begin Tuesday with the NFL pushing for a "lengthy" suspension. 

 

If either the union or league appeals Robinson’s decision, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell or his designee "will issue a written decision that will constitute full, final and complete disposition of the dispute," per terms of Article 46 in the CBA.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/browns-deshaun-watson-disciplinary-hearing-tuesday

[maddenboy]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

So you don’t think that the problems in the locker room are gonna superseed all that it’s more than just about money

i think it depends on their assessment of whether the locker room would prefer Jacoby Brissett or Mayfield.

 

there's probably a lot of players who genuinely would support whichever gives the best chance to win.  Given those 2 choices. 

 

Players know the browns are not winning the superbowl.  but lots probably have contract incentives.  or wanna put out the best tape possible, so they can gtfo as fast as possible.   Or be on a winning team so that being on a winner boosts that player's Brand that he's building.  or whatever.  Even defensive players know that their stats get better as the offense performs better.   etc. etc.

 

If its jacoby, it will probably be a valid read by the players that he really is better as a player for the team.  because faced with a head (mayfield) vs heart (anybody but Mayfield), i think mayfield wins.  in a close one.