Rigotz Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I think this tells a really interesting story. Von Miller's contract is effectively a 3-year $17.5M/yr deal. Past 3 years of Bills Defensive Ends and what they were paid: 2021: Jerry Hughes: $9.45M Mario Addison: $8.1M Rousseau ~$2M Basham ~$1M Epenesa ~$1M 2020: Mario Addison: $9.97M Trent Murphy: $9.78M Jerry Hughes: $9.5M Epenesa ~1M 2019: Jerry Hughes: $12.9M Trent Murphy: $8.8M Shaq Lawson: $3.2M Pairing Von with Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa not only upgrades the position, but actually decreases our total edge rusher spending as well. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Summary Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Rigotz said: I think this tells a really interesting story. Von Miller's contract is effectively a 3-year $17.5M/yr deal. Past 3 years of Bills Defensive Ends and what they were paid: 2021: Jerry Hughes: $9.45M Mario Addison: $8.1M Rousseau ~$2M Basham ~$1M Epenesa ~$1M 2020: Mario Addison: $9.97M Trent Murphy: $9.78M Jerry Hughes: $9.5M Epenesa ~1M 2019: Jerry Hughes: $12.9M Trent Murphy: $8.8M Shaq Lawson: $3.2M Pairing Von with Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa not only upgrades the position, but actually decreases our total edge rusher spending as well. Shows the importance of rookie contracts. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Mario Addison wasnt great value.. Jerry probably got paid 1 year too long.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Mario Addison wasnt great value.. Jerry probably got paid 1 year too long.. I didn’t know Mario got paid, only 8.1 mill (LOL) but by NFL standards I think that was a pretty decent deal. I think he was our best DE last year easily…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, billybrew1 said: I think he was our best DE last year easily…. True but that ain’t saying much 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 You know, I hate to say it, but I got a bad feeling about next year’s D…. Particularly at the beginning…. But unless Settle and Jone are nfl good, and our young ends take a big step, this DL fails again. We need both of those things to happen to have a good D, imho…. Von Miller can no longer change a game by himself. He needs help…. And let’s remember, you gotta defense to win Super Bowls. I sure hope the young DL can take that next step. And Settle and Jones are good DTs for the long NFL season. Settle, Jones, Phillips and Ed are the four…. Do we carry five ends again? Von, Groot, AJ, Boogie and Shaq? Well, I honestly like that we have Shaq to take on some wear and tear of the season at LE…. Essentially playing like a third tackle. He’s good at that. My question is can any of the giant young ends become a bonafide pass rusher? I think the interior guys can apply some penetration to crush the pocket but I don’t know how much they can play the run? I guess it’s more important that they can get some penetration… All four of our DTs can penetrate. Thats specifically for Mahomes and the other great QBs…. Plus all our DEs can rush from inside. Its the brutal burst on the outside that they don’t really show…. But I think we need that to get that constant double (or a real good LT) off Von… Most clubs looking to build a feared D have two Vons…. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, billybrew1 said: You know, I hate to say it, but I got a bad feeling about next year’s D…. Particularly at the beginning…. But unless Settle and Jone are nfl good, and our young ends take a big step, this DL fails again. We need both of those things to happen to have a good D, imho…. Von Miller can no longer change a game by himself. He needs help…. And let’s remember, you gotta defense to win Super Bowls. I sure hope the young DL can take that next step. And Settle and Jones are good DTs for the long NFL season. Settle, Jones, Phillips and Ed are the four…. Do we carry five ends again? Von, Groot, AJ, Boogie and Shaq? Well, I honestly like that we have Shaq to take on some wear and tear of the season at LE…. Essentially playing like a third tackle. He’s good at that. My question is can any of the giant young ends become a bonafide pass rusher? I think the interior guys can apply some penetration to crush the pocket but I don’t know how much they can play the run? I guess it’s more important that they can get some penetration… All four of our DTs can penetrate. Thats specifically for Mahomes and the other great QBs…. Plus all our DEs can rush from inside. Its the brutal burst on the outside that they don’t really show…. But I think we need that to get that constant double (or a real good LT) off Von… Most clubs looking to build a feared D have two Vons…. Settle and Jones have already proven they are NFL legitimate players. Jones isn’t a pass rusher he is your prototypical run stuffing DT. He may tie some guys up but he won’t get a ton a pressure. Settle, Phillips, and Oliver can get after the QB for the DT position. I agree we need the young DE’s to take a step forward, and I think they will be given every opportunity to, that’s why Hughes and Addison weren’t brought back. Von Miller has historically played 80% of the snaps, I bet the rotation the Bills implement will help his longevity and effectiveness. There will probably be a bit of a gelling period in the beginning, but I expect the young guys to fall in line behind Von’s example of how to practice and prepare. The dline went from a big question to a much smaller one, if at all. Lawson is really an insurance piece. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 For double the price lets hope we will get double the production... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 18 minutes ago, billybrew1 said: You know, I hate to say it, but I got a bad feeling about next year’s D…. Particularly at the beginning…. But unless Settle and Jone are nfl good, and our young ends take a big step, this DL fails again. We need both of those things to happen to have a good D, imho…. Von Miller can no longer change a game by himself. He needs help…. And let’s remember, you gotta defense to win Super Bowls. I sure hope the young DL can take that next step. And Settle and Jones are good DTs for the long NFL season. Settle, Jones, Phillips and Ed are the four…. Do we carry five ends again? Von, Groot, AJ, Boogie and Shaq? Well, I honestly like that we have Shaq to take on some wear and tear of the season at LE…. Essentially playing like a third tackle. He’s good at that. My question is can any of the giant young ends become a bonafide pass rusher? I think the interior guys can apply some penetration to crush the pocket but I don’t know how much they can play the run? I guess it’s more important that they can get some penetration… All four of our DTs can penetrate. Thats specifically for Mahomes and the other great QBs…. Plus all our DEs can rush from inside. Its the brutal burst on the outside that they don’t really show…. But I think we need that to get that constant double (or a real good LT) off Von… Most clubs looking to build a feared D have two Vons…. They're going to struggle early on and Bills fans are going to overreact. I virtually guarantee it. Then they'll start grooving mid-late season in time for the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, billybrew1 said: You know, I hate to say it, but I got a bad feeling about next year’s D…. Particularly at the beginning…. But unless Settle and Jone are nfl good, and our young ends take a big step, this DL fails again. We need both of those things to happen to have a good D, imho…. Von Miller can no longer change a game by himself. He needs help…. And let’s remember, you gotta defense to win Super Bowls. I sure hope the young DL can take that next step. And Settle and Jones are good DTs for the long NFL season. Settle, Jones, Phillips and Ed are the four…. Do we carry five ends again? Von, Groot, AJ, Boogie and Shaq? Well, I honestly like that we have Shaq to take on some wear and tear of the season at LE…. Essentially playing like a third tackle. He’s good at that. My question is can any of the giant young ends become a bonafide pass rusher? I think the interior guys can apply some penetration to crush the pocket but I don’t know how much they can play the run? I guess it’s more important that they can get some penetration… All four of our DTs can penetrate. Thats specifically for Mahomes and the other great QBs…. Plus all our DEs can rush from inside. Its the brutal burst on the outside that they don’t really show…. But I think we need that to get that constant double (or a real good LT) off Von… Most clubs looking to build a feared D have two Vons…. Really? Seemed he changed the games quite a bit in the playoffs 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: Mario Addison wasnt great value.. Jerry probably got paid 1 year too long.. Maybe Jerry got paid one year too long. I don't think so. I think he was one of our top 2 DE's last year. Would of liked someone better than Jerry from another team, sure. Hughes still got pressure and he still doesn't get the holding calls he deserves. I never understood why he didn't get holding calls for 7-8 seasons, it was not right. However, the holding calls he does not get will help our team with someone who will get pressure or penalties. Love adding Von Miller! And, please give Oliver and Miller 70-80% of the snaps each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Really? Seemed he changed the games quite a bit in the playoffs Right and our D just got better. DL also so a bit confused how Bills will regress? An assumption that Settle and Jones are worse than Star and Harry. Mix Phillips in and young DE’s with another year experience. Just can’t see regression imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, QLBillsFan said: Right and our D just got better. DL also so a bit confused how Bills will regress? An assumption that Settle and Jones are worse than Star and Harry. Mix Phillips in and young DE’s with another year experience. Just can’t see regression imho. I could potentially see them struggling a bit for the first few games until they get acclimated to the system and understand what their roles are and for the coaches to understand how to use them properly, kind of like what happened with Klein. But I think by and in large our DLine improved with the additions versus who we lost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakout Squad Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I have a feeling Jerry and AJ Klein will be back on lesser deals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, In Summary said: Shows the importance of rookie contracts. Yes. More specifically, it shows the importance of good college scouting and good drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, artmalibu said: For double the price lets hope we will get double the production... How is it double the price though? Mario and Hughes likely aren’t coming back and that = Von Millers money. It’s break even. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 hours ago, In Summary said: Shows the importance of rookie contracts. Especially at premium positions. This is a big reason why it’s hard to take rb early. Having cb, de, ot, qb playing on rookie contracts is a huge savings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Hughes+ Addison for the last 2 years was 9 sacks and 9 sacks. If Miller can at least get 9 sacks by himself, the contract is basically break even at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Rigotz said: I think this tells a really interesting story. Von Miller's contract is effectively a 3-year $17.5M/yr deal. Past 3 years of Bills Defensive Ends and what they were paid: 2021: Jerry Hughes: $9.45M Mario Addison: $8.1M Rousseau ~$2M Basham ~$1M Epenesa ~$1M 2020: Mario Addison: $9.97M Trent Murphy: $9.78M Jerry Hughes: $9.5M Epenesa ~1M 2019: Jerry Hughes: $12.9M Trent Murphy: $8.8M Shaq Lawson: $3.2M Pairing Von with Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa not only upgrades the position, but actually decreases our total edge rusher spending as well. Nice work putting this together! Little correction (may help your case): add in Efe Obada last season ($1.5M cap hit). This season Shaq Lawson, cap hit as yet unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I don't think the front 4 takes as long to gel as mixing and matching guys in the secondary. I bet we will see a much more disruptive front seven right out of the gate. Maybe someone will pop a run on us from a mistake on a run fit but overall i can't picture this group not playing in the backfield way more than they have the past two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: Hughes+ Addison for the last 2 years was 9 sacks and 9 sacks. If Miller can at least get 9 sacks by himself, the contract is basically break even at that point. For reference 9 sacks a year for the next three years would rank him third overall for pass rushers of his age in the last 22 seasons. Miller is good enough to do it but it's far from a guarantee. There are some future HOF'ers and HOF'ers in the table in the link below that didn't sniff 7 sacks a year. Stathead: Pass rushers aged 33-35 since 2000 Edited March 21, 2022 by Sammy Watkins' Rib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: For reference 9 sacks a year for the next three years would rank him third overall for pass rushers of his age in the last 22 seasons. Miller is good enough to do it but it's far from a guarantee. There are some future HOF'ers and HOF'ers in the table in the link below that didn't sniff 7 sacks a year. Stathead: Pass rushers aged 33-35 since 2000 I like Miller’s chances of doing it. He showed no slowing down in the super bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Big Turk said: Really? Seemed he changed the games quite a bit in the playoffs Over on the Rams forum they were saying Von was only effective because he was paired with Aaron Donald. Not saying I believe it to be true, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Manther said: Maybe Jerry got paid one year too long. I don't think so. I think he was one of our top 2 DE's last year. Would of liked someone better than Jerry from another team, sure. Hughes still got pressure and he still doesn't get the holding calls he deserves. I never understood why he didn't get holding calls for 7-8 seasons, it was not right. He's always been known as a pressure artist so I looked up last year's number and sure enough, he led the team. Had 26, which was also more than Jeffery Simmons (8.5 sacks), Carlos Dunlap (8.5 sacks) other Josh Allen (7.5 sacks). Kind of nuts, really. He's got to have the worst pressure to sack ratio of anybody the past few years. Clearly the pressure is good and still valuable but it's wild how few sacks come out of them. I'd still bring him back for cheap if he can keep causing some chaos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfandBills Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Will be nice to Von for the next three years. He’s obviously on back 9 of his prime but i think we’ll get 2 or 3 good years from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: How is it double the price though? Mario and Hughes likely aren’t coming back and that = Von Millers money. It’s break even. As mentioned the contract is basically a 3 yr at 17.5 mill a year deal and jerry made about half of that. So Von is making double of what Jerry or Mario did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 8 hours ago, chongli said: Over on the Rams forum they were saying Von was only effective because he was paired with Aaron Donald. Not saying I believe it to be true, but who knows. I watched the games, I disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 to me there are too big changes from last year's OL to now 1: edge control. houghs could rip up the pitch and get almost sacks like no one's biz, but outside of his outside foot was often pretty free country against us. adding shaq who really was the best edge setter we had for a while, and miller in place of houghs gives an actual fundamental improvement in our DL play that can stop big screens and runs. 2: big drive pass rush. we got lots of sacks vs trash teams who were falling apart, but we tended to not get sacks vs good teams when we really really coulda used em. how man times was mahomes open to get tackles and you see some bills player flailing around just missing him in the play offs? if miller can shut down a drive in each play off game with a solid sack, that frankly mighta been super bowl victory for us last year (it certainly was for the rams). so it doesn't really matter how the d looks right away (barring total melt down of course), or what the pff stat rankings for whatever are at whatever point. we had the number 1 d in the nfl, and lead in like 4 different categories, and it wasn't good enough and we knew it wasn't good enough. stats don't always tell the story, we'll know prolly by mid season if we built this d up to be where we want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Every one here rags on Jerry Hughes but he was the only one other teams really had to worry about play in & play out i hope they bring him back because i think he still makes a difference when he's on the field then pairing him with Von i think will be a good thing . I remember when he had his best production was when Mario was here other teams were so worried about Mario they forgot that Jerry wasn't half bad him self . Sure he's no longer that guy that will give you double digit sacks but given his constant pressure & being around the QB i think he can still give the team D more with Von on the other side i think he could help & i would like to see him retire as a Buffalo Bill with a Super Bowl victory he deserves it for what he's given the team & the city . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Might as well title it "Von Miller vs current pass rushers"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 19 hours ago, Rigotz said: I think this tells a really interesting story. Von Miller's contract is effectively a 3-year $17.5M/yr deal. Past 3 years of Bills Defensive Ends and what they were paid: 2021: Jerry Hughes: $9.45M Mario Addison: $8.1M Rousseau ~$2M Basham ~$1M Epenesa ~$1M 2020: Mario Addison: $9.97M Trent Murphy: $9.78M Jerry Hughes: $9.5M Epenesa ~1M 2019: Jerry Hughes: $12.9M Trent Murphy: $8.8M Shaq Lawson: $3.2M Pairing Von with Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa not only upgrades the position, but actually decreases our total edge rusher spending as well. It's still insane that we paid a guy like Murphy almost $10M per season to be a rotational 5 sack a season type of guy. This is why getting a proven commodity like Von Miller at $17M a year is almost a steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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