Breece Hall Please!!

[DCofNC]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

That’s really not a problem at all.  

That’s the entire issue, Taylor is not going for 2000 yards with Allen throwing for 4500.  You don’t draft a RB in the first round with intentions of them touching the ball 15 times a game maximum.

[ExWNYer]

5 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

You may be right, TBD has spoken... Breece in the 2nd for the Bills
 

 

 

Some of it was due to the limited choices. I like Walker better than Hall  but he wasn't presented as an option. I don't think Breece Hall is worthy of his own crusade thread. The Bills don't need him to be an 'elite' offense. That's nonsense. 

[Solomon Grundy]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

That’s the entire issue, Taylor is not going for 2000 yards with Allen throwing for 4500.  You don’t draft a RB in the first round with intentions of them touching the ball 15 times a game maximum.

If his 15 touches(max) equates to a total of 90/100+yards rushing/receiving, why not? 

[ddaryl]

5 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

 

Some of it was due to the limited choices. I like Walker better than Hall  but he wasn't presented as an option. I don't think Breece Hall is worthy of his own crusade thread. The Bills don't need him to be an 'elite' offense. That's nonsense. 

Yeah I agree with this crusade thread thoughts....  I believe Hall is a better pass catcher out of the backfield which I would then have to think Breece would be preferred if they do pick a RB in round 2.

I personally do not see any chance of a rd 1 RB by the Bills, in the 2nd the odds go up some.

[DCofNC]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

If his 15 touches(max) equates to a total of 90/100+yards rushing/receiving, why not? 

Because that’s not going to happen, 6+ YPC is an unreal hope.  Secondarily, the biggest value in a first round pick is the 5th year option which we would have to either forgo or make him a top 5 paid RB, which there is no justification for when you have one of the best passers in the league.

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

That’s the entire issue, Taylor is not going for 2000 yards with Allen throwing for 4500.  You don’t draft a RB in the first round with intentions of them touching the ball 15 times a game maximum.

i misread your previous post so I apologize.  I agree with the premise but i think we plan on running slightly more than in the past.  
 

We don’t know what their intentions are.   Motor was averaging 15-25 touches a game down the stretch. We’ve added OL that are more effective run blocking than pass blocking. Different OC.  Different season.  They’ve said they want to ease the burden on 17 and a Rb can help that.  
 

I’m not saying rb is our pick, but if they have a 1st rd grade on a Rb and the other 1st round graded players are gone….. it makes more sense than we think it does
 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

When a player is drafted in the 1st rd, that player is expected to "impact" that team immediately. There's only 2 positions that I can see that happening on this team, CB/RB. Value at 25. Many want them to choose WR, but I ask who's gonna sit? How many touches would they get? How would Jameson Williams immediately help when he's not expected to play until mid season. Once Tre returns, who's gonna sit? Hall is the only one who has a realistic chance to impact this team immediately

[whorlnut]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

well yes it’s certainly possible that Motor doesn’t get a 2nd contract, but that’s a stance reflective of a general opinion on RB’s worth that seems to be taking hold around the league. It has nothing to do with the cap - it’s easy to find money for a RB since, again, their position isn’t highly valued and an extension for Motor wouldn’t cost much.

 

All this, of course, also goes against your opinion that drafting Hall in the 1st round is worth it. He’s not; no running back is. 
 

edit: probably already posted in this long rambling thread, but the draft network guys seem to agree:

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/breece-hall

 

Also, how exactly is this guy a “bigger” Marshawn? He’s taller by a couple inches, sure (not always good for a RB.) They play at basically same weight.

“No” running back is worth a first round?  Thanks for you OPINION. 

23 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Because that’s not going to happen, 6+ YPC is an unreal hope.  Secondarily, the biggest value in a first round pick is the 5th year option which we would have to either forgo or make him a top 5 paid RB, which there is no justification for when you have one of the best passers in the league.

Breece Hall has home run ability. We don’t have a back right now with that capability. One 60 yard run really ups his yards per carry. 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

When a player is drafted in the 1st rd, that player is expected to "impact" that team immediately. There's only 2 positions that I can see that happening on this team, CB/RB. Value at 25. Many want them to choose WR, but I ask who's gonna sit? How many touches would they get? How would Jameson Williams immediately help when he's not expected to play until mid season. Once Tre returns, who's gonna sit? Hall is the only one who has a realistic chance to impact this team immediately

If Jameson Williams is on the board when we pick, you’re going to be disappointed.  
 

luckily for you, I here’s very little chance of that happening.  Long term upside is a key factor in determining if a player gets a 1st rd grade. Not like we will ever be able to find out, but I would bet that almost every GM in the league would take him over Hall.  I don’t think “immediate impact” carry’s as much value as long term upside.  

33 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Because that’s not going to happen, 6+ YPC is an unreal hope.  Secondarily, the biggest value in a first round pick is the 5th year option which we would have to either forgo or make him a top 5 paid RB, which there is no justification for when you have one of the best passers in the league.

You’re acting as if “touches” are rushes.   That’s not the case.  He could average 3-6 catches a game.  

[SoCal Deek]

25 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

When a player is drafted in the 1st rd, that player is expected to "impact" that team immediately. There's only 2 positions that I can see that happening on this team, CB/RB. Value at 25. Many want them to choose WR, but I ask who's gonna sit? How many touches would they get? How would Jameson Williams immediately help when he's not expected to play until mid season. Once Tre returns, who's gonna sit? Hall is the only one who has a realistic chance to impact this team immediately

I totally agree…but that’s not really been the case for the last few Bills taken in the 1st Round. I wish it was, but it hasn’t been. 

[Dr. Who]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If Jameson Williams is on the board when we pick, you’re going to be disappointed.  
 

luckily for you, I here’s very little chance of that happening.  Long term upside is a key factor in determining if a player gets a 1st rd grade. Not like we will ever be able to find out, but I would bet that almost every GM in the league would take him over Hall.  I don’t think “immediate impact” carry’s as much value as long term upside.  

You’re acting as if “touches” are rushes.   That’s not the case.  He could average 3-6 catches a game.  

I really want Jameson, but doesn't look likely. I still think you try and trade back if you can into the top of the second round if Hall is your choice. 

[NewEra]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

I really want Jameson, but doesn't look likely. I still think you try and trade back if you can into the top of the second round if Hall is your choice. 

Definitely possible and that makes sense.  It’s always better to get your targeted player AND additional draft picks, but I think this really depends on their grade of Hall.  If he’s the last 1st round grade on the board, trading back to get him is a little risky.  Can’t go too far back.  

[Dr. Who]

Just now, NewEra said:

Definitely possible and that makes sense.  It’s always better to get your targeted player AND additional draft picks, but I think this really depends on their grade of Hall.  If he’s the last 1st round grade on the board, trading back to get him is a little risky.  Can’t go too far back.  

I actually think Kenneth Walker III is a solid choice for us if we're thinking early round rb, but I won't complain about Hall.

[HappyDays]

43 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

When a player is drafted in the 1st rd, that player is expected to "impact" that team immediately.

 

Ideally yes, but 1st round picks should really impact your team for the next 10 years. It's ludicrous to draft Breece Hall over Jameson Williams because of how they impact the team in September and October of 2022. I want the player who has the biggest impact on the team for the next five Januarys/Februarys. No question Jameson Williams is that player if you're comparing the two.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I actually think Kenneth Walker III is a solid choice for us if we're thinking early round rb, but I won't complain about Hall.

Same.  That’s my guy

[Einstein's Dog]

37 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

When a player is drafted in the 1st rd, that player is expected to "impact" that team immediately. There's only 2 positions that I can see that happening on this team, CB/RB. Value at 25. Many want them to choose WR, but I ask who's gonna sit? How many touches would they get? How would Jameson Williams immediately help when he's not expected to play until mid season. Once Tre returns, who's gonna sit? Hall is the only one who has a realistic chance to impact this team immediately

No, you expect immediate "impact" but luckily that is not the view of the FO.  The draft is for the overall continued success of the program, not some short term gain.

 

Jamison Williams offers incredible potential for the offense for multiple years.  A WR that Josh/Dorsey can have for multiple years.

 

I don't know if you saw his interview.  Hall is not someone I would want.  K Walker beat out Hall in our Bills mock draft.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

You may be right, TBD has spoken... Breece in the 2nd for the Bills
 

 

 

Of course to get that - Virgil eliminated Walker the higher rated RB because that is who the Bills picked in mock draft 1.0.

 

It would have been interesting to see if either RB had been the choice or would people have chosen something else since both RBs were there.

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Of course to get that - Virgil eliminated Walker the higher rated RB because that is who the Bills picked in mock draft 1.0.

 

It would have been interesting to see if either RB had been the choice or would people have chosen something else since both RBs were there.

 

 

It would have been weird if Walker wasn't chosen here, since he was chosen in the first round in the last Bills mock draft.

 

I think that is why Virgil left Walker off, he assumed Walker would be the choice.

[ExWNYer]

2 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It would have been weird if Walker wasn't chosen here, since he was chosen in the first round in the last Bills mock draft.

 

I think that is why Virgil left Walker off, he assumed Walker would be the choice.

 

He more or less said he didn't want it devolving into a split board arguing over which RB it should be.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It would have been weird if Walker wasn't chosen here, since he was chosen in the first round in the last Bills mock draft.

 

I think that is why Virgil left Walker off, he assumed Walker would be the choice.

Breece Hall was already off the board in the previous mock iirc.  
 

Putting them head to head in a poll for the first time 

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Breece Hall was already off the board in the previous mock iirc.  
 

Putting them head to head in a poll for the first time 

You're right, I just went back and looked, I was way off.  In 1.0 McDuffie was taken in the first for the Bills and in the second took K Walker after B Hall had been selected.

[Aurelius]

I feel like Breece is a lot better fit than Walker for the Bills.  Breece is quite a bit bigger, but just as fast and is far and away the better receiver of the 2.  So much that he can really do damage in flank, on screens and in slot.  In addition, he’s got a longer stride and I think has better breakaway ability given his greater length when going up a level to the NFL.  Breece’s production matches all that.  
 

Walker is very shifty, hits the hole hard and is more of a back for a team relying on the running game.  Much shorter player with shorter stride and seems to rely on speed burst to break past initial line of defenders but slows a bit and looks back a ton on long runs for fear of getting caught.  He’s an excellent back who Id love to have as well, and I’m no NFL scout, but Breece seems like a superior fit for what the Bills do and his proven ability to catch makes him a legit weapon for Allen. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, Aurelius said:

I feel like Breece is a lot better fit than Walker for the Bills.  Breece is quite a bit bigger, but just as fast and is far and away the better receiver of the 2.  So much that he can really do damage in flank, on screens and in slot.  In addition, he’s got a longer stride and I think has better breakaway ability given his greater length when going up a level to the NFL.  Breece’s production matches all that.  
 

Walker is very shifty, hits the hole hard and is more of a back for a team relying on the running game.  Much shorter player with shorter stride and seems to rely on speed burst to break past initial line of defenders but slows a bit and looks back a ton on long runs for fear of getting caught.  He’s an excellent back who Id love to have as well, and I’m no NFL scout, but Breece seems like a superior fit for what the Bills do and his proven ability to catch makes him a legit weapon for Allen. 

 

Breece without a doubt is the better RB for this team. I think Walker is a good RB, but he doesn’t fit what this teams identity is. Another poster compared him to Forte, and in a way I agree. Hall is very dangerous out in space. With him on the field, you truly don’t know what the play calling is going to be, he can do it all dangerously. He’s even a goal line back. He will play smash mouth or finesse and is exactly what we need. He doesn’t need 16+ carries to help this team out, his very presence will confuse defenses enough to create plenty of split second delays to make strategic advantages. Which is worth its weight in gold. You won’t get that same feeling with Moss or Singletary on the field, you pretty much know what’s happening. 

[JoshAllin]

4 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It would have been weird if Walker wasn't chosen here, since he was chosen in the first round in the last Bills mock draft.

 

I think that is why Virgil left Walker off, he assumed Walker would be the choice.

Is walker actually a good pick for the bills? I read the cons and did not like them at all https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-pros-and-cons-pffs-top-five-running-backs-kenneth-walker-breece-hall-dameon-pierce

[JaCrispy]

10 minutes ago, motorj said:

Is walker actually a good pick for the bills? I read the cons and did not like them at all https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-pros-and-cons-pffs-top-five-running-backs-kenneth-walker-breece-hall-dameon-pierce

He appears to be a great runner...but based on what the Bills have been looking for (a receiving back or a receiver like WanDale Robison, who can also run out of the backfield), Walker doesn’t really seem to be a fit...

[Einstein's Dog]

17 minutes ago, motorj said:

Is walker actually a good pick for the bills? I read the cons and did not like them at all https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2022-nfl-draft-pros-and-cons-pffs-top-five-running-backs-kenneth-walker-breece-hall-dameon-pierce

Having read that, I don't want either Hall or Walker in the second.

 

It will be interesting to see what the FO does about RB.  Singletary's contract is going to be up soon so a replacement there would be nice.  And if they have soured on Moss, i would like to see a new short yardage specialist to stop having Josh run on 3rd and ones.  Two different types of backs though.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

 

Breece without a doubt is the better RB for this team. I think Walker is a good RB, but he doesn’t fit what this teams identity is. Another poster compared him to Forte, and in a way I agree. Hall is very dangerous out in space. With him on the field, you truly don’t know what the play calling is going to be, he can do it all dangerously. He’s even a goal line back. He will play smash mouth or finesse and is exactly what we need. He doesn’t need 16+ carries to help this team out, his very presence will confuse defenses enough to create plenty of split second delays to make strategic advantages. Which is worth its weight in gold. You won’t get that same feeling with Moss or Singletary on the field, you pretty much know what’s happening. 

Just because Walker wasn’t asked to catch balls in college doesn’t mean he can’t be a solid receiver.  He’s made a couple very nice catches that could be a glimpse of what he can do if given the opportunity.  Let’s not act like players can’t improve when coached up on the nfl level.  Walker is even more dangerous in space.   The problem with both of these guys:  pass protection.  

[Solomon Grundy]

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2022/04/daniel-jeremiah-shares-wr-to-watch-for-bills-at-pick-25-explains-why-rb-breece-hall-makes-sense.html?outputType=amp

[Milanos Milano]

17 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2022/04/daniel-jeremiah-shares-wr-to-watch-for-bills-at-pick-25-explains-why-rb-breece-hall-makes-sense.html?outputType=amp

Only a few days away! Can’t wait until Thursday-Saturday. 

[Kangaxx]

I can't wait until we draft him. 

[PrimeTime101]

So, I watched Cover 1 last night and 2 things were discussed about Hall

1. He has already been over played a ton with his reps 

2. The holes he goes through are huge and if there is not a big hole he gets 2 bouncy. 

 

Think there is any merit to any of this?

[Buffalo716]

35 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So, I watched Cover 1 last night and 2 things were discussed about Hall

1. He has already been over played a ton with his reps 

2. The holes he goes through are huge and if there is not a big hole he gets 2 bouncy. 

 

Think there is any merit to any of this?

The amount of reps is not a huge concern

 

But he definitely had massive holes and his decisiveness definitely gets worse as the holes get smaller.. he's not the best in close quarters

 

And you need to be able to get skinny in the NFL through the hole

 

He's still a really good runner but he excels once he hits the second level where his build-up speed and cut back ability can take over

Edited April 23, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Milanos Milano]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The amount of reps is not a huge concern

 

But he definitely had massive holes and his decisiveness definitely gets worse as the holes get smaller.. he's not the best in close quarters

 

And you need to be able to get skinny in the NFL through the hole

 

He's still a really good runner but he excels once he hits the second level where his build-up speed and cut back ability can take over

Which is why we need a good OC to get creative with him in space. Let Singletary get skinny. We need an underneath option that can take it to the house at any given point. 

But Hall does just fine in tight quarters, look at all his goal line runs. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Which is why we need a good OC to get creative with him in space. Let Singletary get skinny. We need an underneath option that can take it to the house at any given point. 

But Hall does just fine in tight quarters, look at all his goal line runs. 

Bolded is so crazy it's not even funny. We have no clue how good or bad Ken Dorsey is to make statements like this. Some would say we just had a good OC. Your narrative is horrible.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So, I watched Cover 1 last night and 2 things were discussed about Hall

1. He has already been over played a ton with his reps 

2. The holes he goes through are huge and if there is not a big hole he gets 2 bouncy. 

 

Think there is any merit to any of this?

I don’t agree with their assessments. There are plenty of highlights showing him getting “skinny” through holes. The big holes they see him running through are due to his vision. 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I don’t agree with their assessments. There are plenty of highlights showing him getting “skinny” through holes. The big holes they see him running through are due to his vision. 

Having watched every carry of his career it's actually easy to agree the Iowa st offense produced huge running lanes for him 

 

Highlights are just that highlights 

 

He's very talented but he absolutely benefited from huge running lanes... And most division one running backs have good enough vision to find holes in college 

 

Over 50 running backs went for over a thousand yards last year D1 ... It all starts with vision 

 

You know who played with a bad line and produced? Isaiah Spiller

 

I'm not saying he's better than breece... But he has really good interior vision.. and he plays way faster than his 40 time 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Milanos Milano]

When we win a super bowl with Breece Hall, everyone will get over the fact we drafted him in the 1st round. 

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

When we win a super bowl with Breece Hall, everyone will get over the fact we drafted him in the 1st round. 

I really haven't seen 1 person say he isn't good 

 

What people are saying is we have other positions of need 

 

We could've won a SB last year with singletary as our lead... Now is hall better? Yes 

 

But Devin isn't solely keeping us back... Our offense scores ...our defense let us down 

 

Hall certainly would make us more dynamic on offense 

 

We can win a SB without drafting him

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I really haven't seen 1 person say he isn't good 

 

What people are saying is we have other positions of need 

 

We could've won a SB last year with singletary as our lead... Now is hall better? Yes 

 

But Devin isn't solely keeping us back... Our offense scores ...our defense let us down 

 

Hall certainly would make us more dynamic on offense 

 

We can win a SB without drafting him

We already took care of the defensive issue with Von Miller. Now it’s time to address the weakest link on offense. We can still draft a CB and an OG later in the draft. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We already took care of the defensive issue with Von Miller. Now it’s time to address the weakest link on offense. We can still draft a CB and an OG later in the draft. 

It's up to beane to decide what's our biggest need 

 

Hall can be a upgrade and dynamic weapon to our offense

 

But we are very thin at CB as well in a passing league 

 

We are very very thin