Rooney Rule Requirements

[billswhip]

This board has some questions on the rule specifics as is pertain to hiring....

 

The NFL has tinkered with the Rooney Rule several times since the embarrassing hiring cycle following the 2019 regular season when just one of five coaching vacancies was filled by a person of color.

 

In May 2020, the league changed the Rooney Rule to require teams to interview at least two external minority candidates for a head coaching job and at least one external minority candidate for a coordinator job.

 

BUF is required to comply and interview aft least one external minority candidate for any coordinator opening

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Then who else are the Giants interviewing besides Dorsey?

 

Given this expansion of the rule, sure seems like all those reports from Saturday night saying Giants offered a deal to Dorsey and it was as good as done were a little... premature?

 

Not surprising for the Twitterverse, and most of those tweets were from Giants-based folk.

[wppete]

Just an awful rule. Can’t believe it’s still being used. IMHO. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, wppete said:

Just an awful rule. Can’t believe it’s still being used. IMHO. 

 

Bad opinion, given its effectiveness and simplicity. But you are entitled to it.

[Albany,n.y.]

The Bills are interviewing Tee Martin to comply with the Rooney rule.  I'd ask him "Why were you drafted before Tom Brady?" and see how he responds under pressure.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, wppete said:

Just an awful rule. Can’t believe it’s still being used. IMHO. 

Like anything, teams will get out of it what they put into it. If teams treat it like a "box to check" they may miss out.

 

Beane and McD strike me as more of the "job is in the details" types. I'm sure they are doing due diligence on a guy that they may actually be interested in rather that shortcut it to "check a box".

 

My personal feelings is when someone shouts "Rooney Rule interview" it reveals way more about themselves then the teams hiring.

[BullBuchanan]

38 minutes ago, wppete said:

Just an awful rule. Can’t believe it’s still being used. IMHO. 

I requires an interview. In other words it requires you to spend a couple hours of your time considering an option that's underrepresented. But please, tell us more about what a travesty it is.

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I requires an interview. In other words it requires you to spend a couple hours of your time considering an option that's underrepresented. But please, tell us more about what a travesty it is.

I should have noted that I say this as someone who doesn't believe in "diversity hires". The best candidate should get the job - that can include reasons related to the nature of their "diverse" status. maybe they have unique perspective or have faced adversity others haven't. A minority shouldn't just get jobs because they're minorities though.

That's not at all what the Rooney Rule is and it's not at all what happens as a result of it.

[Simon]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

But please, tell us more about what a travesty it is.

Or please, don't. 

[Perry Turtle]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I should have noted that I say this as someone who doesn't believe in "diversity hires". The best candidate should get the job - that can include reasons related to the nature of their "diverse" status. maybe they have unique perspective or have faced adversity others haven't. A minority shouldn't just get jobs because they're minorities though.

That's not at all what the Rooney Rule is and it's not at all what happens as a result of it.

The Rooney rule isn't about 'giving' a minority person a job.  The rule doesn't mandate the hiring of anyone.

 

It mandates only that teams interview a minority candidate, and ends there. 

 

It's a small accommodation that could greatly benefit teams and candidates who take advantage of the opportunity.

 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Perry Turtle said:

The Rooney rule isn't about 'giving' a minority person a job.  The rule doesn't mandate the hiring of anyone.

 

It mandates only that teams interview a minority candidate, and ends there. 

 

It's a small accommodation that could greatly benefit teams and candidates who take advantage of the opportunity.

 

That's what i said, but anyway, I agree 100%

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Then who else are the Giants interviewing besides Dorsey?

 

Given this expansion of the rule, sure seems like all those reports from Saturday night saying Giants offered a deal to Dorsey and it was as good as done were a little... premature?

 

Not surprising for the Twitterverse, and most of those tweets were from Giants-based folk.

Agent speak. Remember Daboll was going to Miami also.

[reddogblitz]

The Rooney Rule I assume was started with good intentions.

 

But I hate to see now that whenever a minority coach is interviewed the assumption is he was interviewed to check the rooney box.  See above.

 

Look at our DC. He gets interviewed ever year but hasn't landed a job in 15 years.  We even interviewed him when we hired Coach Gailey for that purpose.  We travelled to him and talked about 15 minutes so we could say we did.  It was obvious.

 

I'm sure some good has come out of it but it seems to me minority coaches are being used in the process.

[Simon]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

I'm sure some good has come out of it but it seems to me minority coaches are being used in the process.

 

If I was in those guys' shoes, I'm not sure I would consider the opportunity to meet and talk to people that I would have never otherwise had as being "used".

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Agent speak. Remember Daboll was going to Miami also.

 

It was beyond Agents. But not much better. Mostly "blog reporters" from the Giants' world.

 

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

But I hate to see now that whenever a minority coach is interviewed the assumption is he was interviewed to check the rooney box.  See above.

 

 

That's an issue with the person making the assumption, not the rule.

[Franco_92]

43 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I requires an interview. In other words it requires you to spend a couple hours of your time considering an option that's underrepresented. But please, tell us more about what a travesty it is.

I don't care about the rule,  but the mocking tone insinuating an overreaction is kinda funny considering that the OP a few posts above you describes it as "embarrassing" that a demographic comprising 12% of the population acquired "only" 20% of the available openings in 2019 lol

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Just an awful rule. Can’t believe it’s still being used. IMHO. 

I’m white, but 70% of all NFL players are black. So if I’m an owner, or a GM, or a coach and I wanted to hire somebody with not only coaching experience, but playing experience also, it would make sense to at least interview some people who are black.

 

As far as women coaching? Get out of here. I don’t mean to be chauvinistic about it, but we all know the truth for what it is.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I’m white, but 70% of all NFL players are black. So if I’m an owner, or a GM, or a coach and I wanted to hire somebody with not only coaching experience, but playing experience also, it would make sense to at least interview some people who are black.

 

As far as women coaching? Get out of here. I don’t mean to be chauvinistic about it, but we all know the truth for what it is.

 

Yeah, I have a hard time making that cross over as well. Especially in Football.

 

It's a bit different in Basketball and Hockey where women actually play from a young age, through college, and even professionally. It may not be the same level of competition, but they at least have "been there".

 

Hiring a woman football coach is like hiring Todd Haley. The second the going gets tough, players start telling him to go back to golf.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don't care about the rule,  but the mocking tone insinuating an overreaction is kinda funny considering that the OP a few posts above you describes it as "embarrassing" that a demographic comprising 12% of the population acquired "only" 20% of the available openings in 2019 lol

So white people make up 88% of the population? Interesting.

 

Black people make up 12% of the population, but the rooney rule applies to persons of color, who make up 37% of the population. So yes, I would agree with the OP because of math. The math is even more galling when you consider the nuance of the racial disparity in a league where 75% of players are minorities and 75% of head coaches are white.

 

[reddogblitz]

Why is it OK to have a racial disparity in players but not coaches?

[Evian]

The rule is sort of ridiculous. How come Asians and Hispanics aren't also included?

 

Most defenses are 90% black players. Nobdody is complaining we need more whites, asians, and hispanics playing defense.

 

Maybe certain groups of people are just better at certain jobs. 

 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

Why is it OK to have a racial disparity in players but not coaches?

Because players don't lose opportunities because they are white. You seem to be missing some fundamental understanding of racial dynamics and how they play out in the workplace and society at large.

[Dan Darragh]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, I have a hard time making that cross over as well. Especially in Football.

 

It's a bit different in Basketball and Hockey where women actually play from a young age, through college, and even professionally. It may not be the same level of competition, but they at least have "been there".

 

Hiring a woman football coach is like hiring Todd Haley. The second the going gets tough, players start telling him to go back to golf.

 

I assume that Marv Levy's stellar playing career was a significant factor in his hiring.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Evian said:

The rule is sort of ridiculous. How come Asians and Hispanics aren't also included?

They are. What's your next point?
 

Just now, Evian said:

Maybe certain groups of people are just better at certain jobs. 

 

Oof, wrong direction. Please return to 1800.

[Evian]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Why is it OK to have a racial disparity in players but not coaches?

 

Is there racial disparity in players. African Americans are 13% of population but 70% of players. Isn't that racist. Maybe we should force teams to play more asians, hispanics, and whites on defense because currently defenses are 90% black. 

 

I demand more asian head coaches. 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Evian

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Evian said:

 

Is there racial disparity in players. African Americans are 13% of population but 70% of players. Isn't that racist.

No. That's not how racism works.

[teef]

it's getting spicy in here!

[Augie]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bad opinion, given its effectiveness and simplicity. But you are entitled to it.

 

It shouldn’t have to be necessary, but sadly it still appears to be. It hurts nothing, so why not?  Nothing is lost, and you never know what might be gained, even just if it’s interview experience. That’s just MY opinion. 

[Kmart128]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bad opinion, given its effectiveness and simplicity. But you are entitled to it.

 

Its actually a good opinion... most teams that are already set on a canidate is forced to interview a minority canidate. Much of the time its just a formality interview for the team to follow the rules. Its not fair to the coach being interviewed. And just a waste of the teams time. It doesnt benefit either parties so the fact that this rule still exists is dumb. Like if Bills are set on hiring Ken Dorsey. It isnt fair for this Bennett or Martin guy to be interviewing for a job they have no shot at.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Kmart128

[soflabillsfan1]

The only thing dumber than the Rooney rule still being in existence, is the people who still think it's necessary.

[reddogblitz]

8 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Because players don't lose opportunities because they are white. You seem to be missing some fundamental understanding of racial dynamics and how they play out in the workplace and society at large.

 

Are you sure about this?

 

https://fourvertsfootball.com/white-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl/

 

I saw a program where this was being discussed on NFL channel or ESPN.  NFL teams don't even scout white CBs.  High School and college coaches tell their white gifted athletes to not play CB cuz they know they'll never have a chance of even being looked at by NFL teams.  Jason Seahorn was a fluke cuz his coach saw him playing basketball and knew he could do it.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

 

I assume that Marv Levy's stellar playing career was a significant factor in his hiring.

 

He played all the way through college, so that doesnt refute my point at all.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Evian said:

 

Seems a certain group of people like to call things racist if they are not equally represented but when they are over represented it is not racist. 

 

Simple as that.

 

Again, this is just a complete lack of the basic fundamentals of race dynamics. I would help illuminate the nuance, but based on your responses, I'm guessing that's not really what you're looking for. You seem to have quite a bit of resentment about minority coaches getting the bare minimum consideration, and you have some very, VERY outdated beliefs on race.

[RoyBatty is alive]

End of this thread over/ under....12 posts.

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Are you sure about this?

 

https://fourvertsfootball.com/white-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl/

 

I saw a program where this was being discussed on NFL channel or ESPN.  NFL teams don't even scout white CBs.  High School and college coaches tell their white gifted athletes to not play CB cuz they know they'll never have a chance of even being looked at by NFL teams.  Jason Seahorn was a fluke cuz his coach saw him playing basketball and knew he could do it.

 

 

This is a real reach imo.

 

I understand your point BUT if there is a superior white CB, he is playing in the NFL.

[oldmanfan]

This is equity at work.  The E of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) that so many Neanderthals want to call CRT or reverse racism or other tripe.  The Rooney rule promotes equity, in this case giving minority candidates a shot at interviews.  It does NOT guarantee they are hired.  

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

End of this thread over/ under....12 posts.

This is a real reach imo.

 

I understand your point BUT if there is a superior white CB, he is playing in the NFL.

 

Perhaps but there hasn't been one for 18 years.

 

In the program I saw Marv Lewis said they don't scout white CBs.

Edited January 31, 2022 by reddogblitz

[Evian]

8 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

End of this thread over/ under....12 posts.

This is a real reach imo.

 

I understand your point BUT if there is a superior white CB, he is playing in the NFL.

 

Agreed. Just like if there is a superior black coach or black quarterback they will get a job.

 

This nonsense black coaches and quarterbacks don't get a shot is ludicrous. 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Evian

[Lost]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This is equity at work.  The E of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) that so many Neanderthals want to call CRT or reverse racism or other tripe.  The Rooney rule promotes equity, in this case giving minority candidates a shot at interviews.  It does NOT guarantee they are hired.  

 

If the world is all about equity over substance now, shouldn't we have a rule that at least 2 women be interviewed for coaching positions as well then?

Edited January 31, 2022 by Lost

[MJS]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Bad opinion, given its effectiveness and simplicity. But you are entitled to it.

What effectiveness are you referring to?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Perhaps but there hasn't been one for 18 years.

I don't track NFL player races, if there hasnt been a white CB in 18 years it was not because they were not good enough.  Do you really believe McDermott or BB wouldn't sign a talented white CB?  They would, imo, in a heartbeat.