reddogblitz Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Robert Saleh & Ron Rivera? You missed a huge detail about the Rooney rule that makes the percentage of people it affects at about 4x your claim. Do you think either of these guys would NOT have been hired sans Rooney rule? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: I’m white, but 70% of all NFL players are black. So if I’m an owner, or a GM, or a coach and I wanted to hire somebody with not only coaching experience, but playing experience also, it would make sense to at least interview some people who are black. As far as women coaching? Get out of here. I don’t mean to be chauvinistic about it, but we all know the truth for what it is. I don't know if there will be a glass ceiling, but there are a number of female coaching assistants now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: My personal feelings is when someone shouts "Rooney Rule interview" it reveals way more about themselves then the teams hiring. Not necessarily and I think it's unfair to suggest that. If you're implying no team in the NFL interviews purely to comply with the rule, you're naive. Have a look at Jon Gruden's emails, and much more importantly, look at the league structure surrounding them (over a long period of time) that did NOTHING about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Suffering Fan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 40 minutes ago, Evian said: Is there racial disparity in players. African Americans are 13% of population but 70% of players. Isn't that racist. Maybe we should force teams to play more asians, hispanics, and whites on defense because currently defenses are 90% black. The NFL is the ultimate meritocracy (sports usually is). The best players get the jobs and no one cares about skin color. We don't love Josh because he is white or Diggs because he is black. We love Josh because HE IS FREAKING JOSH! BTW, this is great for the country as a whole because fans will identify with the players on their favorite team, regardless of color. And don't you feel the same way about coaches? I do. I can't believe for a moment that McD would pass over a qualified candidate because of skin color. He wants to win. The Rooney Rule is only needed for the odd idiot out there (which I am sure there are some). So, what accounts for the disparity in black coaches? Don't stone me, but I think there really isn't any. People point to the percentage of black players in the league, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Some of the best coaches in the game were not good enough to play in the NFL - Bellichick, McVay, etc. The fact that they weren't good enough athletically gave them only one option if they wanted to stay with the game they love - coaching. Many took unpaid internships right out of college and worked their way up. So, when you compare that guy who has 10 years of coaching experience in their early 30s to the ex-player who had a good 10 year career, the one looks ahead of the other (as far as coaching goes). What gives the non-player the advantage? The very fact that they were not good enough to play at the NFL level, or college level for that matter. I think that reason more than any is why the percentage of coaches actually is more representative of the general population and not the NFL population. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Do you think either of these guys would NOT have been hired sans Rooney rule? Considering that he was the 3rd Latino head coach in history, it certainly didn't hurt him. Robert Saleh is also the 3rd Arab head coach and 1rst Muslim. Edited January 31, 2022 by BullBuchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak-O Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Every interview is a chance to get a job, and even if you don't get a particular job it helps you next time. It’s not though, if the employer is already set on someone else and just interviewing you because they have to. I also doubt such an interview is very good practice for the next time. What I really can’t understand is why anyone wouldn’t hire the best candidate available regardless of colour when billions of dollars are on the line. Edited February 1, 2022 by Freak-O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't know if there will be a glass ceiling, but there are a number of female coaching assistants now. I don’t know. If I’m a player and I’ve caught a thousand balls or tackled someone a thousand times and I’m being told what to do by someone who never played the game, that’s infuriating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Not necessarily and I think it's unfair to suggest that. If you're implying no team in the NFL interviews purely to comply with the rule, you're naive. Have a look at Jon Gruden's emails, and much more importantly, look at the league structure surrounding them (over a long period of time) that did NOTHING about them. It's odd that from the part you quoted you assumed it was a race thing. It wasn't. Had a lot more to do with those yelling "Rooney Rule" not really being educated or choosing to take the TIME to learn about a candidate before automatically chalking it up to race. However, mostly the uneducated will water things down to the simplest rational that they are comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Dan Darragh said: I assume that Marv Levy's stellar playing career was a significant factor in his hiring. Madden had even more experience playing than Levy didn't he? 4 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I don’t know. If I’m a player and I’ve caught a thousand balls or tackled someone a thousand times and I’m being told what to do by someone who never played the game, that’s infuriating. Yes I am sure players who played for Madden felt that way but did not express it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said: The NFL is the ultimate meritocracy (sports usually is). The best players get the jobs and no one cares about skin color. We don't love Josh because he is white or Diggs because he is black. We love Josh because HE IS FREAKING JOSH! BTW, this is great for the country as a whole because fans will identify with the players on their favorite team, regardless of color. And don't you feel the same way about coaches? I do. I can't believe for a moment that McD would pass over a qualified candidate because of skin color. He wants to win. The Rooney Rule is only needed for the odd idiot out there (which I am sure there are some). So, what accounts for the disparity in black coaches? Don't stone me, but I think there really isn't any. People point to the percentage of black players in the league, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Some of the best coaches in the game were not good enough to play in the NFL - Bellichick, McVay, etc. The fact that they weren't good enough athletically gave them only one option if they wanted to stay with the game they love - coaching. Many took unpaid internships right out of college and worked their way up. So, when you compare that guy who has 10 years of coaching experience in their early 30s to the ex-player who had a good 10 year career, the one looks ahead of the other (as far as coaching goes). What gives the non-player the advantage? The very fact that they were not good enough to play at the NFL level, or college level for that matter. I think that reason more than any is why the percentage of coaches actually is more representative of the general population and not the NFL population. So…….”Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach/coach”. That’s what I take out of that, and I’m sure there is some truth to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, BullBuchanan said: Considering that he was the 3rd Latino head coach in history, it certainly didn't hurt him. 2 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said: The NFL is the ultimate meritocracy (sports usually is). The best players get the jobs and no one cares about skin color. We don't love Josh because he is white or Diggs because he is black. We love Josh because HE IS FREAKING JOSH! BTW, this is great for the country as a whole because fans will identify with the players on their favorite team, regardless of color. And don't you feel the same way about coaches? I do. I can't believe for a moment that McD would pass over a qualified candidate because of skin color. He wants to win. The Rooney Rule is only needed for the odd idiot out there (which I am sure there are some). So, what accounts for the disparity in black coaches? Don't stone me, but I think there really isn't any. People point to the percentage of black players in the league, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Some of the best coaches in the game were not good enough to play in the NFL - Bellichick, McVay, etc. The fact that they weren't good enough athletically gave them only one option if they wanted to stay with the game they love - coaching. Many took unpaid internships right out of college and worked their way up. So, when you compare that guy who has 10 years of coaching experience in their early 30s to the ex-player who had a good 10 year career, the one looks ahead of the other (as far as coaching goes). What gives the non-player the advantage? The very fact that they were not good enough to play at the NFL level, or college level for that matter. I think that reason more than any is why the percentage of coaches actually is more representative of the general population and not the NFL population. See, that's a gross oversimplification and as a result it takes what would seem to be a common-sense affirmative and turns it into a wrong answer. To understand why, you can't just start at the NFL, you have to go back much further than that. The people who make it to the NFL in player or coaching capacities are a sample of people that made it to previous stages on their journeys. To understand how someone makes it to the next step in their journey you need to understand how they made it to their previous one and what their motivations are. The deeper answer to that question is a much larger conversation on race in America that includes education, culture, economics and more. The NFL is a meritocracy like skiing is a meritocracy. No one will tell the best skier in the country that they can't compete because they're black, but based strictly on opportunity, they're not currently in a position to become a representative part of the population. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, Augie said: So…….”Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach/coach”. That’s what I take out of that, and I’m sure there is some truth to it. Why should players who are A list in skills listen to skill coaches who were lucky to make practice squads? Someone should tell Josh Allen to stop paying Jordan Palmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Yes I am sure players who played for Madden felt that way but did not express i I will crush you in Madden, punk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just now, Victory Formation said: I will crush you in Madden, punk. Not a chance. Never even lived in a house with a Madden. I did help craft a job rule that Madden and Pokemon games were not allowed at work even on lunch breaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I don’t know. If I’m a player and I’ve caught a thousand balls or tackled someone a thousand times and I’m being told what to do by someone who never played the game, that’s infuriating. Maybe that's why Ben had a beef with Todd Haley? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I don’t know. If I’m a player and I’ve caught a thousand balls or tackled someone a thousand times and I’m being told what to do by someone who never played the game, that’s infuriating. Well, let me ask you this - and it's a question I don't know the answer to: How many coaches and coaching assistants at the college and at the pro level today have played the game (beyond a youth league level where there are roughly equivalent opportunities available for women). I know Todd Haley played golf in college 😁 My general impression is that quality recognizes quality, and that if a coach knows their ***** and can help a player to raise their game and help the team to win, they will be recognized as a good coach whether they've played or not. I think it's a barrier to being given the opportunity, but not necessarily a barrier to actually being able to coach. But it comes up right away with women coaching football is mentioned, when I think we don't ask the same question of a male assistant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Freak-O said: It’s not though, if the employer is already set on someone else and just interviewing you because they have to. I also doubt such an interview is very practice for the next time. What I really can’t understand is why anyone wouldn’t hire the best candidate available regardless of colour when billions of dollars are on the line. Because maybe you don't know who the best candidates are if you have a bias to only considering white people. The Rooney Rule increases opportunity. That opportunity extends not only to the coaches being interviewed, but also to people who aspire to be in that position someday. The story of guys like Jerod mayo and Byron Leftwich being handed the reigns to premier roles and young ages speaks to that. When people can see that opportunities exist, it can make them be inspired to go after the same thing. In happens in every indsutry, not just football with people from all sorts of backgrounds. Edited January 31, 2022 by BullBuchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 25 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I don’t know. If I’m a player and I’ve caught a thousand balls or tackled someone a thousand times and I’m being told what to do by someone who never played the game, that’s infuriating. Most coaches haven't played, at least at the highest level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Then who else are the Giants interviewing besides Dorsey? Given this expansion of the rule, sure seems like all those reports from Saturday night saying Giants offered a deal to Dorsey and it was as good as done were a little... premature? Not surprising for the Twitterverse, and most of those tweets were from Giants-based folk. The NY Giants interviewed Buffalo Bills DC Leslie Frazier along with Brian Flores. https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/giants-interview-leslie-frazier-for-head-coaching-vacancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The NY Giants interviewed Buffalo Bills DC Leslie Frazier along with Brian Flores. https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/giants-interview-leslie-frazier-for-head-coaching-vacancy We're talking about Dorsey and the OC spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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