“Even Michael Jordan needed a kingmaker” Mahomes/Reid , Allen/McDermott(?)

[SCBills]

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

[DallasBillsFan1]

I don't know the answer to this question, but you may recall that Andy Reid had the wrap that he couldn't go deep in the playoffs or win the SUperBowl.  It took a while.  I'm sure he was learning as he went along but then he got his QB and the rest is history.  I think McDermott is always learning.  He just better apply it next season. 

[Success]

I thought McD did so well in the 1st half+ of the game. I loved the aggressiveness, and he seemed to have a great gameplan.

 

But they really dropped the ball at the end. I thought every part of it was inexplicable.  It was ALMOST like our coaches started celebrating early w/ everyone else, which you can't do. You have to coach & play the full 60 against a team like KC.

 

I don't know what to think today.  I think McCarthy really squandered some of Aaron Rogers' best years, and I'd hate to see that here.

 

[NewEra]

Bleh

[transplantbillsfan]

Yes I watched this and it's my greatest fear.  It was pretty clearly what separated Manning and Brady for years.  In NE it was an Elite HC & Elite QB combo.  In Indy it was just a very good HC with an Elite QB.

 

It kinda terrifies me to think McDermott is merely a really good HC, because that means we'll always be bridesmaids, but never brides.  And he'll never be bad enough to get fired.

 

I just hope he's somehow learning from all these mistakes.  Neglecting to squib kick yesterday was just plain criminal.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

I thought McD did so well in the 1st half+ of the game. I loved the aggressiveness, and he seemed to have a great gameplan.

 

But they really dropped the ball at the end. I thought every part of it was inexplicable.  It was ALMOST like our coaches started celebrating early w/ everyone else, which you can't do. You have to coach & play the full 60 against a team like KC.

 

I don't know what to think today.  I think McCarthy really squandered some of Aaron Rogers' best years, and I'd hate to see that here.

 

You just saw it!

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

 

We'll hear platitudes all offseason from this team and coaching staff about how 'this was a learning experience and we don't want to feel this way ever again' but at some point talk is cheap especially after losing to the same coach/QB/team 2 years in the row in the playoffs.

 

And this is where you do start to serious question McDermott and why any good coach would need to lose a game in the final 13 seconds to have some sort of epithany and realization of how to take the next step from that. There isn't any next step other than common sense of what everyone in the world who watched that game understands what needed to happen.

 

But again, in McDermott's defense that might not be anything he can do to stop the inevitability of Mahomes and the Chiefs no matter what roster and coaching changes this team makes in the offseason. We may very well simply be witnessing the rise of the next great pro sports superstar and dynasty and the national media has firmly taken that position today as expected.

[Woodman19]

the Vince Lombardi trophy is 22 inches tall, weighs 7 pounds and takes 47 players to lift it.

[Nextmanup]

I enjoyed Cowherd's little segment there.

 

I don't see it as a knock on McDermott, so much as a praising of the "perfect fit" between Reid and Mahomes.

 

The day will come when McDermott needs to get it done.  When that day is, or how much patience Pegula has, I don't know.

 

If several years go by without the big win, it will be a much more interesting discussion.

If we DO win a SB in the next 2-3 years, McDermott will be here for his career.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Nextmanup

[Yobogoya!]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

 

I mean, Andy Reid was abysmal in the postseason for 20 years before Mahomes fell into his life. He was 2-5 as KC head coach in the postseason, and nearly every loss came on some massive blunder (that's even going back to his eagles days).

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I've been saying this since mid-season.  McDermott is a good head coach, he's a great leader, but as an in-game manager, I would call him very average.

 

Just look at how many different ways he managed to bungle 13 freaking seconds- To scared to squib it. Then the defense again played off, SCARED to give up a TD... The whole game this defense played terrified and they still gave up big play after big play with NO DEFENSIVE ADJUSTMENTS.

 

Last night epitomized the fact that McDermott is successful bc of Josh Allen, and not the other way around, and clearly he will be in Josh's way of getting a ring for Buffalo.  You got the QB who is a true generational talent, he can make all the throws like Mahomes AND run over defenders like King Henry yet with 13 seconds left McJauron shows his true colors and choked, period.  

 

How many times do we need to see the Bills lose close games before we accept the fact that he's Doug Collins and not our Phil Jackson???

This current iteration under McJauron has proven time and time again- either they get out in front with a big lead, or they lose, especially this season.

 

Great coaches would be lining up around One Bills Drive for a chance to attach themselves and their legacy to Josh Allen.

 

I know they won't make a change because they are too scared to go back to being irrelevant, but that's ridiculous bc with Josh this team will always be a contender, that much is certainly clear.  But a head coach who rests is laurels on his defensive prowess then can't deliver an even halfway decent performance with his "#1 Ranked defense", when it maters most???? Sorry but clearly that's the weak link holding this team back, the guy responsible for in game management and adjustments on the defensive side of the ball.  

 

Look at the 4 teams in the championship games- offensive minded head coaches paired with strong defenses.  So find me one of those and hire Wink Martindale to run the defense.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[billsfan1959]

Didn't he pick Allen to lose to Mac Jones?

[Mr. WEO]

who was Jordan's "kingmaker"?

 

Phil Jackson??  

[SCBills]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

who was Jordan's "kingmaker"?

 

Phil Jackson??  

Yes. Jordan didn’t break through and win until he got PJax. 

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

He’s right. McDermott is Doug Collins, got the team to win 1-2 playoff games, but can’t get over the hump. Josh needs his Phil Jackson.

2 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I've been saying this since mid-season.  McDermott is a good head coach, he's a great leader, but as an in-game manager, I would call him very average.

 

Just look at how many different ways he managed to bungle 13 freaking seconds- To scared to squib it. Then the defense again played off, SCARED to give up a TD... The whole game this defense played terrified and they still gave up big play after big play with NO DEFENSIVE ADJUSTMENTS.

 

Last night epitomized the fact that McDermott is successful bc of Josh Allen, and not the other way around, and clearly he will be in Josh's way of getting a ring for Buffalo.  You got the QB who is a true generational talent, he can make all the throws like Mahomes AND run over defenders like King Henry yet with 13 seconds left McJauron shows his true colors and choked, period.  

 

How many times do we need to see the Bills lose close games before we accept the fact that he's Doug Collins and not our Phil Jackson???

This current iteration under McJauron has proven time and time again- either they get out in front with a big lead, or they lose, especially this season.

 

Great coaches would be lining up around One Bills Drive for a chance to attach themselves and their legacy to Josh Allen.

 

I know they won't make a change because they are too scared to go back to being irrelevant, but that's ridiculous bc with Josh this team will always be a contender, that much is certainly clear.  But a head coach who rests is laurels on his defensive prowess then can't deliver an even halfway decent performance with his "#1 Ranked defense", when it maters most???? Sorry but clearly that's the weak link holding this team back, the guy responsible for in game management and adjustments on the defensive side of the ball.  

 

Look at the 4 teams in the championship games- offensive minded head coaches paired with strong defenses.  So find me one of those and hire Wink Martindale to run the defense.

Omg you made the point I just replied with. That’ll teach me to respond to the OP before reading the whole thread. But you’re exactly right and I said this in the fire McDermott thread in early December.

[John from Riverside]

That is all fine for drama but can we please just call KC for what it is?

 

Mahommes IS great.....but his receivers are "make a mistake and their gone" players.....the YAC yards by these players after Mahommes throws them a 10 yard pass is insane.

 

Can we please go get our Deebo Samuel

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

 

I think Reid is horribly overrated.  Loaded Philly teams, Loaded KC teams.  One SB win.  Tons of losses in NFC Championship games with loaded Philly teams and a SB loss.  

 

What Allen does need is a better coach and GM, no argument there.  

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think Reid is horribly overrated.  Loaded Philly teams, Loaded KC teams.  One SB win.  Tons of losses in NFC Championship games with loaded Philly teams and a SB loss.  

 

What Allen does need is a better coach and GM, no argument there.  

I think Beane is good.  Not worried about him.  His philosophy is to build a contender for a decade… At some point he needs to take a chance though.  KC flipping a pick for Ingram is the type of move he needs to start being more open to.  
 

He built a team that beat KC and likely wins the Super Bowl.   His coaches gave it away.  
 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by SCBills

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Yes. Jordan didn’t break through and win until he got PJax. 

 

 

is this a joke?  

 

He was Rookie of the year, scoring more points than anyone in the league. 

 

His 3rd year (injured his second), he absolutely destroyed the league in scoring.  He owned the scoring title every year but his second---all before Phil showed up.  When that happened, MJ was already the best player in the NBA.

 

 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

is this a joke?  

 

He was Rookie of the year, scoring more points than anyone in the league. 

 

His 3rd year (injured his second), he absolutely destroyed the league in scoring.  He owned the scoring title every year but his second---all before Phil showed up.  When that happened, MJ was already the best player in the NBA.

 

 

Ok, so you agree?  Because that is EXACTLY the point being made about Allen.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Ok, so you agree?  Because that is EXACTLY the point being made about Allen.  

 

If Cowherd stays PJ made Jordan, he's nuts.

 

That being said, MJ was fully formed the moment he got to the NBA--didn't need Phil's magic triangle for that.

 

Josh---no.  Still a player in evolution.

[LeGOATski]

"McD is no Andy Reid"

 

🙄

 

It took Reid like 15 years to finally get to the SB.

 

People are such whiny *****.

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If Cowherd stays PJ made Jordan, he's nuts.

 

That being said, MJ was fully formed the moment he got to the NBA--didn't need Phil's magic triangle for that.

 

Josh---no.  Still a player in evolution.

He says PJax took the elite player to elite winner.  
 

He also implies Reid is that for Mahomes.  
 

He’s unsure if McDermott is that for Allen.  
 

Considering coaching cost Allen the win, seems to be an accurate observation… so far. 
 

Edited January 24, 2022 by SCBills

[Heitz]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

"McD is no Andy Reid"

 

🙄

 

It took Reid like 15 years to finally get to the SB.

 

People are such whiny *****.

No difference in tenure between the two either!   I mean, I can't understand why Reid has 200 more wins than McD, must be waaaaaay better.  🤣

[Dopey]

Andy coached the eagles from 1999-2012 with no super bowl wins to speak of. He's been coaching the chiefs since 2013 and has won once. WTH is wrong with some of you? "McDermott isn't Reid". Correct, McDermott hasn't coached for over 20 years and won only 1 Super Bowl. But hey, the grass is always greener...

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

While I certainly do not believe we should fire McDermott over this loss, I think there’s something to this discussion. 
 

McDermott is a good coach, but he’s not Andy Reid.  Can he elevate his game like Josh has?  
 

 

Andy Reid has an 18 year head start.

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He says PJax took the elite player to elite winner.  
 

He also implies Reid is that for Mahomes.  
 

He’s unsure if McDermott is that for Allen.  
 

Considering coaching cost Allen the win, seems to be an accurate observation… so far. 
 

How many Super Bowls did Andy Reid win with McNabb? Smith?

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Andy Reid has an 18 year head start.

Cool. So Allen will be Brady’s age when he starts figuring it out? 
 

Listen, I’m not saying we should fire McDermott.  I indicated as much in the OP, but this is a legitimate conversation to have… and one we better be prepared to hear if McDermott lets Allen down again. 
 

Edited January 24, 2022 by SCBills

[GETTOTHE50]

its tough to find a better well rounded coach than mcd right now

 

i think the two you could consider are jim harbaugh, who i think some consider is a pompous arrogant bastard.

 

and then pederson, but didnt he lose the locker-room in philly? i forget why he was fired.

 

those two are the only ones that might be considered upgrades.

Edited January 25, 2022 by GETTOTHE50
jim not john

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, DallasBillsFan1 said:

I don't know the answer to this question, but you may recall that Andy Reid had the wrap that he couldn't go deep in the playoffs or win the SUperBowl.  It took a while.  I'm sure he was learning as he went along but then he got his QB and the rest is history.  I think McDermott is always learning.  He just better apply it next season. 

 

Andy Reid refused to allow some of the bad boys on his team.  He "evolved".

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

this is a legitimate conversation to have…

 

It's absolutely not. As long as the team keeps making the playoffs and he doesn't commit any egregious behavior, you keep McD forever regardless of SB wins. That's what winning teams do.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He says PJax took the elite player to elite winner.  
 

He also implies Reid is that for Mahomes.  
 

He’s unsure if McDermott is that for Allen.  
 

Considering coaching cost Allen the win, seems to be an accurate observation… so far. 
 

 

I think the Reid Mahomes is legit.  

 

McDermott likely isn't a kingmaker.  Josh is operating currently on a plane above the skill level of his HC.

 

Phil was the luckiest HC who ever walked the earth.  He stumbled in the greatest winner in the NBA with MJ.  Then he lucked into Shaq and Kobe.

 

Good coach, no doubt.   Made MJ into an elite winner?  No chance whatsoever.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think Reid is horribly overrated.  Loaded Philly teams, Loaded KC teams.  One SB win.  Tons of losses in NFC Championship games with loaded Philly teams and a SB loss.  

 

What Allen does need is a better coach and GM, no argument there.  

 

All that matters is SB wins and he has at least one and I would be willing to be at least 2 or 3 before he hangs it up as the Chiefs are truly on the verge of becoming the next dynasty in the NFL unless one of the 3 other teams left stop them in the next few weeks.

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

All that matters is SB wins and he has at least one and I would be willing to be at least 2 or 3 before he hangs it up as the Chiefs are truly on the verge of becoming the next dynasty in the NFL unless one of the 3 other teams left stop them in the next few weeks.

So give McD 20 years to get one just like Reid. Then we'll talk.