Westside Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tiberius said: History is a guide here? What if Putin is as crazy as many people say. Then the weapons we are sending, that are destroying his army, could send the mad man over the edge, correct? Or you don't agree? This policy right now, Biden's policy, could get us all killed in WW3, right? But Vietnam...🤨 Maybe we should have sat this one out. Let russia invade, just sit around and watch. We should have sat this out right tibs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, Warcodered said: By this logic anything could set him off, Yes. Exactly. 3 minutes ago, Westside said: Maybe we should have sat this one out. Let russia invade, just sit around and watch. We should have sat this out right tibs? Hell no! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Hey…don’t kill the messenger. https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd5s6x4H/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: History is a guide here? What if Putin is as crazy as many people say. Then the weapons we are sending, that are destroying his army, could send the mad man over the edge, correct? Or you don't agree? This policy right now, Biden's policy, could get us all killed in WW3, right? But Vietnam...🤨 Putin isn't crazy. That characterization is marketing and messaging. He's a cold, calculating, ruthless, sociopath. But so are most of the people running policy in the U.S. neocon & neoliberal war machine. Guys like Lindsay Graham. He's been almost invisible for 5 years and suddenly when a war gets started, he awakens from his coffin to advocate for war and violence. When I watch what's going on here, I sometimes imagine how the world would look without leaders? After all, I've got no quarrel with the average working man and woman in Ukraine, or Russia. or China, or Iran, or anywhere in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. They likely feel the same way. It seems like it's the leaders that have problems with each other. Why not just let them do pistols at 12 paces and settle it without having the commit the lives and blood of the rest of us? Or just collectively decide to get rid of them all? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 13 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Putin isn't crazy. That characterization is marketing and messaging. He's a cold, calculating, ruthless, sociopath. But so are most of the people running policy in the U.S. neocon & neoliberal war machine. Guys like Lindsay Graham. He's been almost invisible for 5 years and suddenly when a war gets started, he awakens from his coffin to advocate for war and violence. When I watch what's going on here, I sometimes imagine how the world would look without leaders? After all, I've got no quarrel with the average working man and woman in Ukraine, or Russia. or China, or Iran, or anywhere in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. They likely feel the same way. It seems like it's the leaders that have problems with each other. Why not just let them do pistols at 12 paces and settle it without having the commit the lives and blood of the rest of us? Or just collectively decide to get rid of them all? He isn't a crazy sociopath? The real problem is our leaders? Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 14 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Putin isn't crazy. That characterization is marketing and messaging. He's a cold, calculating, ruthless, sociopath. But so are most of the people running policy in the U.S. neocon & neoliberal war machine. Guys like Lindsay Graham. He's been almost invisible for 5 years and suddenly when a war gets started, he awakens from his coffin to advocate for war and violence. When I watch what's going on here, I sometimes imagine how the world would look without leaders? After all, I've got no quarrel with the average working man and woman in Ukraine, or Russia. or China, or Iran, or anywhere in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. They likely feel the same way. It seems like it's the leaders that have problems with each other. Why not just let them do pistols at 12 paces and settle it without having the commit the lives and blood of the rest of us? Or just collectively decide to get rid of them all? IMAGINE ALL THE PEOPLE LIVING LIFE IN PEACE. YOU MAY SAY I AM A DREAMER, BUT I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 29 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: IMAGINE ALL THE PEOPLE LIVING LIFE IN PEACE. YOU MAY SAY I AM A DREAMER, BUT I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. ***** hippies. 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 Recently photos surfaced on social media of a roughly four-foot-wide tan, airplane-shaped drone that had fallen out of the sky in the Kyiv region, crashing into the sandy ground. While that one failed to explode on impact, the images verified by The Washington Post provide some of the first evidence Russia is using a new and terrifying weapon in its war against Ukraine: a killer drone that can dive bomb into targets, destroying them with little notice. The Russian kamikaze drones, also known as loitering munitions, will soon be joined on the battlefield by ones sent to Ukrainian forces by the United States, making the war the largest direct conflict between two countries in which they’ve been deployed on both sides. Researchers who specialize in the field say it shows that these drones are becoming the norm in modern warfare, and are likely to make the conflict more deadly and unpredictable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/24/loitering-drone-ukraine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I almost forgot about J.K. Rowling invading a sovereign nation and committing war crimes. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Hi-Larious. So now that that the Russian offensive to seize Mikolayiv/Odessa has failed, and Ukrainian counter attacks are rolling it, back. And now that the Russian offensive to seize Kyiv has failed, and Ukrainian counter attacks are rolling it back (and threatening to ***** ENCIRCLE Russian troops in a pocket around Bucha and Hostomel)... Tsar Vladimir the Insane has decided all this was just about "liberating" the Donbass, and Russia's going to focus on "liberating" the Donbass. When in doubt, move the goal posts. In other news, Ukraine's stated that the reason why they didn't believe our intelligence that an invasion was imminent, was because they had penetrated the Russian army and saw 0 evidence of preparation on the tactical level. So because Russian units were utterly unprepared for offensive operations, the Ukrainians thought we were overhyping a Russian bluff. That's why they didn't start mobilizing until 24 hours prior to the offensive starting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 21 hours ago, Tiberius said: History is a guide here? What if Putin is as crazy as many people say. Then the weapons we are sending, that are destroying his army, could send the mad man over the edge, correct? Or you don't agree? This policy right now, Biden's policy, could get us all killed in WW3, right? ... So if I understand you correctly this mad man doesn’t know that the President of the United States just went to Europe to rally the world around crushing his army in Ukraine and his economy at home? Did the sanctions cut off his cable subscription? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I'm pretty worried about what Putin may do if he's perceived as losing this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: So if I understand you correctly this mad man doesn’t know that the President of the United States just went to Europe to rally the world around crushing his army in Ukraine and his economy at home? Did the sanctions cut off his cable subscription? No, he does know, and therefore this policy we are doing will lead to end of civilization. Right? 5 minutes ago, TSOL said: I'm pretty worried about what Putin may do if he's perceived as losing this war. The wounded bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, TSOL said: I'm pretty worried about what Putin may do if he's perceived as losing this war. That's why, as unpalatable as it seems, he has to be allowed to get out without complete defeat. That's the unfortunate thing about someone who is capable of a scorched earth program. The single best thing that can get this over is the continued deterioration on the Russian domestic front. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, he does know, and therefore this policy we are doing will lead to end of civilization. Tibs….I’m not sure where you’re going with any of this but I respect your heartfelt desire to go there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, sherpa said: That's why, as unpalatable as it seems, he has to be allowed to get out without complete defeat. That's the unfortunate thing about someone who is capable of a scorched earth program. The single best thing that can get this over is the continued deterioration on the Russian domestic front. He didn't start this as a short term thing, and he's not going allow Russia to be perceived as weak. We all should be very concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, TSOL said: He didn't start this as a short term thing, and he's not going allow Russia to be perceived as weak. We all should be very concerned I think he definitely thought this would be a short term military effort, and that is proven by food, fuel and clothing supplies to his attack force, as well as never fully employing his significant air capability. He might not want Russia to be perceived as weak, but that ship has sailed. I saw something today that if the status quo extends, the Russian economy will decline 50% year over year. If that happened anywhere else as the result of a voluntary military fiasco there would be blood in the streets. His invasion has exposed a number of things, and already resulted in domestic cracks evidenced by protests, house arrests of planners and firing significant leadership, as well as unification of NATO and tempting others to join. He is screwed, but because he has what he has in reserve, he must be provided a way out, unless there is some kind of internal military revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Anyone ever play the game of Risk? This whole thing reminds me of when you try and take a little country and keep losing the dice roll time after time until you’ve expended all the armies you’d amassed on the border. You slink back to where you started and regroup. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Just now, sherpa said: I think he definitely thought this would be a short term military effort, and that is proven by food, fuel and clothing supplies to his attack force, as well as never fully employing his significant air capability. He might not want Russia to be perceived as weak, but that ship has sailed. I saw something today that if the status quo extends, the Russian economy will decline 50% year over year. If that happened anywhere else as the result of a voluntary military fiasco there would be blood in the streets. His invasion has exposed a number of things, and already resulted in domestic cracks evidenced by protests, house arrests of planners and firing significant leadership, as well as unification of NATO and tempting others to join. He is screwed, but because he has what he has in reserve, he must be provided a way out, unless there is some kind of internal military revolt. So we should now start attacking and ratcheting up the stakes? No fly zone? Drones of our own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said: Hi-Larious. So now that that the Russian offensive to seize Mikolayiv/Odessa has failed, and Ukrainian counter attacks are rolling it, back. And now that the Russian offensive to seize Kyiv has failed, and Ukrainian counter attacks are rolling it back (and threatening to ***** ENCIRCLE Russian troops in a pocket around Bucha and Hostomel)... Tsar Vladimir the Insane has decided all this was just about "liberating" the Donbass, and Russia's going to focus on "liberating" the Donbass. When in doubt, move the goal posts. In other news, Ukraine's stated that the reason why they didn't believe our intelligence that an invasion was imminent, was because they had penetrated the Russian army and saw 0 evidence of preparation on the tactical level. So because Russian units were utterly unprepared for offensive operations, the Ukrainians thought we were overhyping a Russian bluff. That's why they didn't start mobilizing until 24 hours prior to the offensive starting. An interesting strategy "If we are completely unprepared for our invasion our enemy won't think we're going to invade." I mean it's not that it can't work but your military has to be capable enough. 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Anyone ever play the game of Risk? This whole thing reminds me of when you try and take a little country and keep losing the dice roll time after time until you’ve expended all the armies you’d amassed on the border. You slink back to where you started and regroup. I always hated when that would happen and your more elaborate attack plan is nullified by this one ####### who refuses to die. From a non boardgame perspective it would be pretty damn heroic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 18 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Putin isn't crazy. That characterization is marketing and messaging. He's a cold, calculating, ruthless, sociopath. But so are most of the people running policy in the U.S. neocon & neoliberal war machine. Guys like Lindsay Graham. He's been almost invisible for 5 years and suddenly when a war gets started, he awakens from his coffin to advocate for war and violence. When I watch what's going on here, I sometimes imagine how the world would look without leaders? After all, I've got no quarrel with the average working man and woman in Ukraine, or Russia. or China, or Iran, or anywhere in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. They likely feel the same way. It seems like it's the leaders that have problems with each other. Why not just let them do pistols at 12 paces and settle it without having the commit the lives and blood of the rest of us? Or just collectively decide to get rid of them all? I am with you 100%…. Unfortunately it seems the majority of society needs someone to tell them what to do. So the next thing is a very deliberate distribution of leadership power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: So we should now start attacking and ratcheting up the stakes? No fly zone? Drones of our own? I really wish there was an acknowledgement of what has been US policy and proposed tactics. A no fly zone is an act of war. It involves US air capability engaged against Russian Air Forces, and under the umbrella of Russian SAM systems. We are going to shoot at them. They are going to shoot at us and them, 'cause they don't do adversary id as important. Drones? We either involve these little kamikaze drones or we use our more capably platforms, which are extremely limited numbers. We would never allow Ukrainians to operate them, and operating our capable drones is really complicated, and again, an act of war. Patriot missile batteries? Again, it takes US forces to operate them. Once again, against the stated policy of not getting US troops involved in this. There seems to be a view from some folks that you simply give stuff to the Ukraine and they operate them, although it takes years of training and huge support to operate these things efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Just now, sherpa said: I really wish there was an acknowledgement of what has been US policy and proposed tactics. A no fly zone is an act of war. It involves US air capability engaged against Russian Air Forces, and under the umbrella of Russian SAM systems. We are going to shoot at them. They are going to shoot at us and them, 'cause they don't do adversary id as important. Drones? We either involve these little kamikaze drones or we use our more capably platforms, which are extremely limited numbers. We would never allow Ukrainians to operate them, and operating our capable drones is really complicated, and again, an act of war. Patriot missile batteries? Again, it takes US forces to operate them. Once again, against the stated policy of not getting US troops involved in this. There seems to be a view from some folks that you simply give stuff to the Ukraine and they operate them, although it takes years of training and huge support to operate these things efficiently. I know, I was just being an @$$hole. Edited March 25, 2022 by Tenhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 32 minutes ago, sherpa said: I think he definitely thought this would be a short term military effort, and that is proven by food, fuel and clothing supplies to his attack force, as well as never fully employing his significant air capability. He might not want Russia to be perceived as weak, but that ship has sailed. I saw something today that if the status quo extends, the Russian economy will decline 50% year over year. If that happened anywhere else as the result of a voluntary military fiasco there would be blood in the streets. His invasion has exposed a number of things, and already resulted in domestic cracks evidenced by protests, house arrests of planners and firing significant leadership, as well as unification of NATO and tempting others to join. He is screwed, but because he has what he has in reserve, he must be provided a way out, unless there is some kind of internal military revolt. I'd completely agree with you, had Putin not stated plainly that his goal is to reunite the Russian Empire, including the NATO countries. That moment was when he stopped be a cool customer and turned into Tsar Vladimir the Insane. You don't tell your enemies your plans if you think there's a chance they can stop you, or you're nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 57 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: I'd completely agree with you, had Putin not stated plainly that his goal is to reunite the Russian Empire, including the NATO countries. That moment was when he stopped be a cool customer and turned into Tsar Vladimir the Insane. You don't tell your enemies your plans if you think there's a chance they can stop you, or you're nuts. What Putin may have thought a couple months ago has been demolished. He has become an international pariah, completely by his own doing, and it is getting worse internationally and domestically with every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Did Russia just give up on seizing Kiev? https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/25/did-russia-just-give-up-on-seizing-kiev-n458020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: Did Russia just give up on seizing Kiev? https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/25/did-russia-just-give-up-on-seizing-kiev-n458020 Looks like they had that choice forced upon them. This next month is going to be very different from the last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, B-Man said: Did Russia just give up on seizing Kiev? https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/25/did-russia-just-give-up-on-seizing-kiev-n458020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/russian-troops-killed-their-own-commander_uk_623dc61de4b0bcc5b4784bf8 Putin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 3 hours ago, B-Man said: Did Russia just give up on seizing Kiev? https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/03/25/did-russia-just-give-up-on-seizing-kiev-n458020 I think Putin declared victory today in an address to the Russian people, or at least that the first phase has been successfully accomplished. Whatever that means. And now they are proceeding to the main objective, defending Dunbas. So basically retreating to Eastern Ukraine after their assault on Kyiv has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Interesting article on the drone war in Ukraine https://spectrum.ieee.org/ukraine-drone-war#toggle-gdpr The upshot is that on offense, the Ukrainian and Russian militaries are closely matched in the drone war. The difference is on defense: Ukraine has the advantage when it comes to counter-drone technology. A decade ago, counter-drone technology mostly meant using radar to detect drones and surface-to-air missiles to shoot them down. It quickly proved far too costly and ineffective. Drone technology advanced at a brisk pace over the past decade, so counter-drone technology had to move rapidly to keep up. In Russia, it didn’t. Here, again, the Russian military was hampered by technology embargoes and a domestic industrial base that has been somewhat stagnant and lacking in critical capabilities. For contrast, the combined industrial base of the countries supporting Ukraine in this war is massive and has invested heavily in counter-drone technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Wouldn't have been a war if the "clown" was still in office, so there's that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Doc said: Wouldn't have been a war if the "clown" was still in office, so there's that... Probably not, and we'd have gone on eating up Russia's bluffs. Their military is a thin coat of super modern equipment, on top of a mountain of ***** run by poorly trained, poorly led, poorly motivated soldiers. But all Trump saw was "Tough Guy" Putin and the fancy gear they hauled out for military parades, and was very, very impressed. Just like he was supposed to be. Trump got took by a "Very Savvy" guy. Of course, now we know that Tsar Vladimir the Insane has no clothes, no thanks to Trump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Doc said: Wouldn't have been a war if the "clown" was still in office, so there's that... Really? Love how you guys throw out "facts" like that. Why would you say that, anyway? You think Putin respects Trump, so he wouldn't do his genius move? Remember it was Trump who held up weapons for Ukraine for a favor. Disgraceful! Hong Kong was lost on Trump's watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 22 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Anyone ever play the game of Risk? This whole thing reminds me of when you try and take a little country and keep losing the dice roll time after time until you’ve expended all the armies you’d amassed on the border. You slink back to where you started and regroup. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10642413/amp/Putins-15th-commander-killed-Ukrainian-forces-say-worst-deaths-brass-WWII.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Hong Kong was lost on Trump's watch. I thought Hong Kong was turned over to China by the British in 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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