Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tiberius]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

POOR INTELLIGENCE, POOR PLANNING, POOR EXECUTION: 

 

We Think We Know Why Russia’s Invasion Of Ukraine Has Stopped.

 

According to the British Ministry of Defense, the perpetual logistical woes of the Russian military continue to beset the faltering Russian invasion.

 

Russian commanders are also reluctant or incapable of cross-country maneuvering, and, as a result, they are restricted on roads, making the life of the Ukrainian defenders that much easier.

 

The Ukrainian land is also fighting the invaders.

 

Melting snow is giving way to bogs of mud that can stop even the most advanced tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

 

Indeed, the supply problems of the invading Russian forces are so serious that frontline units lack basic essentials, such as food, ammunition, and fuel.

 

“Russian forces have made minimal progress this week. . . Incessant Ukrainian counterattacks are forcing Russia to divert large number of troops to defend their own supply lines. This is severely limiting Russia’s offensive potential. . .Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities.

 

No matter how this thing ends, Russia comes out of it weaker — and weaker looking — in every way.

 

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/we-think-we-know-why-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-has-stopped/

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

POOR INTELLIGENCE, POOR PLANNING, POOR EXECUTION: 

 

We Think We Know Why Russia’s Invasion Of Ukraine Has Stopped.

 

According to the British Ministry of Defense, the perpetual logistical woes of the Russian military continue to beset the faltering Russian invasion.

 

Russian commanders are also reluctant or incapable of cross-country maneuvering, and, as a result, they are restricted on roads, making the life of the Ukrainian defenders that much easier.

 

The Ukrainian land is also fighting the invaders.

 

Melting snow is giving way to bogs of mud that can stop even the most advanced tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

 

Indeed, the supply problems of the invading Russian forces are so serious that frontline units lack basic essentials, such as food, ammunition, and fuel.

 

“Russian forces have made minimal progress this week. . . Incessant Ukrainian counterattacks are forcing Russia to divert large number of troops to defend their own supply lines. This is severely limiting Russia’s offensive potential. . .Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities.

 

No matter how this thing ends, Russia comes out of it weaker — and weaker looking — in every way.

 

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/we-think-we-know-why-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-has-stopped/

 

 

 

Communications is also a huge problem for Russians. It seems like the six generals that have been terminated might have been tracked by unsecured communications the Ukrainians zeroed in on 

[John Adams]

31 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

He isn't effectively using a nuclear weapon.

Nuclear weapons have long lasting radiation effects, and he doesn't need to.

 

Agreed of course. How about chemical or bio? 

 

And he's leveling a city. 

 

31 minutes ago, sherpa said:

If he did, that would be the end of this Russian regime.

 

How so? Russia is bombing civilians pretty indiscriminately at this point and he is still in power. 

 

31 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Yes, a retaliatory nuclear strike is worth it,  if they launched a nuc against a US target.

This aint that.

 

 

 

So you're saying Russia could nuke Mariupol and not risk military strikes (nuclear or conventional) in Russia? I agree. 

 

[sherpa]

I am not stating anything other than my view.

 

Chemical or bio would have a similar but not quite response as a nuc.

It is a bit easier to hide those.

 

Using a nuc changes the entire calculus.

 

It hasn't been done wince WWII, and it isn't at all necessary or even desirous to achieve his objectives.

I'm not going to speculate on a response to delivering a nuc to a Ukrainian city, since I think it is an unreasonable suggestion, but it would be the end of his regime.

 

[John Adams]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

It hasn't been done wince WWII, and it isn't at all necessary or even desirous to achieve his objectives.

I'm not going to speculate on a response to delivering a nuc to a Ukrainian city, since I think it is an unreasonable suggestion, but it would be the end of his regime.

 

 

 

The clock ticks ever louder. 

 

And this discussion has never been more timely than it is now. 

 

Russia uses a nuke. Then what? 

Edited March 21, 2022 by John Adams

[sherpa]

Positioning them a vast difference from using one.

[John Adams]

50 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Positioning them a vast difference from using one.

 

Thanks Captain. 

 

In other news, and this is low by you would think 2-3x:

 

 

 

[BillStime]

SMFH

 

 

[sherpa]

There is no reason to send US submarines into Russian waters, and by the way, all US submarines are nuclear powered.

I get that there are people here who think trump is kind of special.

 

He is a total idiot regarding military issues, and it would be best for all involved if he departed the political environment and simply faded away.

[Coffeesforclosers]

8 hours ago, John Adams said:

 

Thanks Captain. 

 

In other news, and this is low by you would think 2-3x:

 

 

 

 

So 1/8 of the initial invasion force is in hospitals or pushing up daisies.  

 

Guess that explains why the Russians are pulling in troops from the far east and mobilizing 17 year old cadets.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers

[John Adams]

5 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

So 1/8 of the initial invasion force is in hospitals or pushing up daisies.  

 

Guess that explains why the Russians are pulling in troops from the far east and mobilizing 17 year old cadets.

What it does is make Russia that much more desperate and unpredictable. 

This guy has a plan. The nuclear subs in Russian waters idea came later I guess. 
 

 

[Tiberius]

Biden warns a cyber attack is coming. Attack

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/biden-russia-cyber-activity/index.html

 

Biden said, "The magnitude of Russia's cyber capacity is fairly consequential and it's coming."

 

I guess we lay down and take that, too 

[BillStime]

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

13 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Michael Flynn is pretty much in "Who the ***** is Michael Flynn and why should anybody care?" territory.  His takes are all the same. Putin is invincible, Russian catastrophes are really 5D chess, Ukraine is collapsing and final victory is only a matter of time yadda yadda yadda.

 

If he were paid by Custer, he'd be saying Sitting Bull is a coward, Crazy Horse is a pedophile, and being shot once in the chest and once in the head were part of Custer's 1000 IQ plan to win the Little Bighorn.

[Chef Jim]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Biden warns a cyber attack is coming. Attack

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/politics/biden-russia-cyber-activity/index.html

 

Biden said, "The magnitude of Russia's cyber capacity is fairly consequential and it's coming."

 

I guess we lay down and take that, too 

We, China and Russia have likely been engaged in cyber warfare for years.  And if we are as prepared for any additional attacks as I think we are and Biden did not come out and assure us of this that is a sign of poor leadership. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

One more thing.

 

The Ukrainian constitution forbids the government from ceding any Ukrainian territory to another country without a national referendum in favor.

 

So even if he wanted to, which he doesn't, Zelensky couldn't simply John Hancock a treaty giving Donbas and Crimea to Russia.  Which is problem for the Russians, mainly because they assume all elections are always a sham where you count the votes until Tsar Vladimir the Insane's side wins.

[John Adams]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

We, China and Russia have likely been engaged in cyber warfare for years.  And if we are as prepared for any additional attacks as I think we are and Biden did not come out and assure us of this that is a sign of poor leadership. 

 

You think the federal government can protect private companies from hacking? 

 

Because what Biden did was warn everyone but especially the private sector. 

 

Don't worry: Putin wouldn't let PPP fall. Too many allies here. 

Just now, Coffeesforclosers said:

One more thing.

 

The Ukrainian constitution forbids the government from ceding any Ukrainian territory to another country without a national referendum in favor.

 

So even if he wanted to, which he doesn't, Zelensky couldn't simply John Hancock a treaty giving Donbas and Crimea to Russia.  Which is problem for the Russians, mainly because they assume all elections are always a sham where you count the votes until Tsar Vladimir the Insane's side wins.

 

Zelensky said as much a couple days ago. 

 

I wonder if Zelensky will be able to promise that the west will lift sanctions. Russia will settle for: territory, Ukraine not to join NATO, no reparations, no sanctions. The last will be tough to give up but even if countries do, business is not flowing from the west back into Russia. China, however...

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

You think the federal government can protect private companies from hacking? 

 

Yes…..

 

https://www.ncsl.org/research/telecommunications-and-information-technology/cybersecurity-legislation-2021.aspx

[Coffeesforclosers]

Ha, something I didn't know.

 

Ukraine has legally been under China's nuclear umbrella since 2013.  I guess China never envisioned Ukraine being anything other than Russia-aligned.

19 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

You think the federal government can protect private companies from hacking? 

 

Because what Biden did was warn everyone but especially the private sector. 

 

Don't worry: Putin wouldn't let PPP fall. Too many allies here. 

 

Zelensky said as much a couple days ago. 

 

I wonder if Zelensky will be able to promise that the west will lift sanctions. Russia will settle for: territory, Ukraine not to join NATO, no reparations, no sanctions. The last will be tough to give up but even if countries do, business is not flowing from the west back into Russia. China, however...

 

Last I read, Ukraine's position was now 1991 Borders or no deal. So basically telling Russia "You have to nuke us, conquer us completely, or admit defeat.  The Salami Tactics aren't working anymore".

[ALF]

Under New Scrutiny: China’s Nuclear Pledge to Ukraine

Beijing’s 2013 promise to protect Ukraine in a nuclear attack appears to now further muddy its stance on Russia’s invasion

 

China’s 2013 promise to Ukraine of unspecified security guarantees echoed the kind of commitment nuclear-armed states—including China—have long made to nonnuclear ones, assurances that the U.S., U.K. and Russia had earlier also extended directly to Ukraine for relinquishing Soviet-era weapons.

 

Yet Beijing appeared to be promising more than it had in past commitments, and why it singled out Ukraine for such an arrangement has confounded nuclear experts ever since.

 

“It’s a promise of a nuclear-weapon state to stand up for a nonnuclear-weapon state being threatened by a nuclear-weapon state,” says Gregory Kulacki, a Japan-based analyst who focuses on nuclear issues and China for the nonprofit Union of Concerned Scientists. “It means something and it should be pointed out to China,” he says.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/under-new-scrutiny-chinas-nuclear-pledge-to-ukraine-11647007200

 

Maybe that's why Putin brought up bio / chemical weapons

[Tiberius]

19 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

You think the federal government can protect private companies from hacking? 

 

Because what Biden did was warn everyone but especially the private sector. 

 

Don't worry: Putin wouldn't let PPP fall. Too many allies here. 

 

Zelensky said as much a couple days ago. 

 

I wonder if Zelensky will be able to promise that the west will lift sanctions. Russia will settle for: territory, Ukraine not to join NATO, no reparations, no sanctions. The last will be tough to give up but even if countries do, business is not flowing from the west back into Russia. China, however...

They have literally destroyed a whole country. Maybe there will be a promise made for no reparations but once peace is restored the call for Russia to pay up will be big. The victims of this criminal action will be calling for justice. That will be an issue, perhaps tied to lifting sanctions, that will probably last for decades

 

 

As an aside, I also wonder what in the world will become of the insurance situation. Will international insurance companies pay Ukrainians for the damage done? Will they sue Russia? There will be a ton of legal issues all around this war both domestic and international 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Good! 🇺🇦

Quote

 

Ukraine’s military said Tuesday it has retaken Makariv and expelled Russian forces from the strategically important town close to the capital, Kyiv.

“Thanks to the heroic actions of our defenders, the state flag of Ukraine was raised over the city. ... The enemy was rejected,” Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted in an update on Facebook. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/22/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-DFMNRCBLZJAPDL5WAL6MD4V2IM

[sherpa]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

As an aside, I also wonder what in the world will become of the insurance situation. Will international insurance companies pay Ukrainians for the damage done? Will they sue Russia? There will be a ton of legal issues all around this war both domestic and international. 

 

Insurance companies are indemnified by a war clause that eliminates their exposure during war.

[TSOL]

F*uck... Russia probably needs to be stopped at this point. 

[Chef Jim]

43 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

They have literally destroyed a whole country. Maybe there will be a promise made for no reparations but once peace is restored the call for Russia to pay up will be big. The victims of this criminal action will be calling for justice. That will be an issue, perhaps tied to lifting sanctions, that will probably last for decades

 

 

As an aside, I also wonder what in the world will become of the insurance situation. Will international insurance companies pay Ukrainians for the damage done? Will they sue Russia? There will be a ton of legal issues all around this war both domestic and international 

 

 

 

Where were you when we ***** up Afghanistan?  
 

I guess the world only cares about humanity when white people are involved. 🙄

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Where were you when we ***** up Afghanistan?  
 

I guess the world only cares about humanity when white people are involved. 🙄

Have you ever seen the pictures of Aleppo Syria? That was a city the size of Toronto and it now looks like an ancient ruin. The lack of American news coverage of that horrific carnage was nothing short of stunning. 

[Chef Jim]

15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Have you ever seen the pictures of Aleppo Syria? That was a city the size of Toronto and it now looks like an ancient ruin. The lack of American news coverage of that horrific carnage was nothing short of stunning. 

We must protect the white people at all costs!! 

[Motorin']

44 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Where were you when we ***** up Afghanistan?  
 

I guess the world only cares about humanity when white people are involved. 🙄

 

Those of us who were against the Iraq invasion and the occupation of Afghanistan were called traitors or something like that...

 

How'd those two wars work out? Still have your pom poms, or are you pretending like you were never a cheerleader for Bush's forever wars?

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Those of us who were against the Iraq invasion and the occupation of Afghanistan were called traitors or something like that...

 

How'd those two wars work out? Still have your pom poms, or are you pretending like you were never a cheerleader for Bush's forever wars?

Was the idea of the war the problem or the eventual execution of it? I personally believe it was the latter. 

[Motorin']

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Was the idea of the war the problem or the eventual execution of it? I personally believe it was the latter. 

 

Iraq or Afghanistan? The execution of both were seriously problematic. 

 

The only aspect there was justification for, imo, was targeted strikes on the Taliban for their role in 9/11. 

 

The invasion and occupation of both countries had terrible costs, and have resulted in half the world remaining neutral between the US and Russia right now. 

 

I don't think we ever came close to the level of depravity as the Russians in Syria and Ukraine, but the human costs of occupying both countries for nearly 20 years have had a chilling effect. 

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

59 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Have you ever seen the pictures of Aleppo Syria? That was a city the size of Toronto and it now looks like an ancient ruin. The lack of American news coverage of that horrific carnage was nothing short of stunning. 

 

Viet Nam , Afghanistan , Iraq , Syria were always on cable news , it was sickening but was always on. We had many protests

against the Nam war here because the coverage was so graphic at that time.

49 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

We must protect the white people at all costs!! 

 untrue

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Iraq or Afghanistan? The execution of both were seriously problematic. 

 

The only aspect there was justification for, imo, was targeted strikes on the Taliban for their role in 9/11. 

 

The invasion and occupation of both countries had terrible costs, and have resulted in half the world remaining neutral between the US and Russia right now. 

 

I don't think we ever came close to the level of depravity as the Russians in Syria and Ukraine, but the human costs of occupying both countries for nearly 20 years have had a chilling effect. 

 

 

 

 

I’m sure you know that it was way more complicated than that…but we definitely agree that the US Military has had a poor track record of finishing what they were asked to start. And I’m not saying that it’s 100% their fault. 

1 minute ago, ALF said:

 

Viet Nam , Afghanistan , Iraq , Syria were always on cable news , it was sickening but was always on. We had many protests

against the Nam war here because the coverage was so graphic at that time.

 untrue

I’ll disagree Alf. I dare you to show a post war picture of Aleppo to ANYONE and ask them to tell you what it’s a picture of. I’ve tried that experiment and not a single person could tell me. The same is definitely not the case with Ukraine. 

[ALF]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

 

I’ll disagree Alf. I dare you to show a post war picture of Aleppo to ANYONE and ask them to tell you what it’s a picture of. I’ve tried that experiment and not a single person could tell me. The same is definitely not the case with Ukraine. 

 

Syria was a vicious civil war with al-Assad , Russia and Iran against his opposition . The US had very little involvement with that inhuman war , but of course you knew that. The UN could not stop it because of course  Russia. I had seen vast coverage of that war, I can't explain why your friends were not aware.

[sherpa]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:38 PM, Precision said:

Even with their low spending, by most accounts Germany's military is ranked anywhere from 4th to 14th in the world compared to Russia (widely ranked 2nd).  Far from weak or the weakest.

 

 

The deterioration of Germany's military capability is stunning.

Recently, not one of their transport aircraft were mission ready.

Their fighter aircraft are in equally bad condition, at one point they had about 28 mission ready.

Tanks and ground forces-same thing.

 

This has been a wake up call for them.

22 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Iraq or Afghanistan? The execution of both were seriously problematic. 

 

The "war" portion went really well.

The "peace" portion was horrible, and the Russians have no apparent ability to experience a greater outcome in Ukraine.

[Tiberius]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Insurance companies are indemnified by a war clause that eliminates their exposure during war.

Some are taking a hit and sanctions are also causing the industry headaches 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e62df5f9-1716-4220-b583-91ba24d4cfb2

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m sure you know that it was way more complicated than that…but we definitely agree that the US Military has had a poor track record of finishing what they were asked to start. And I’m not saying that it’s 100% their fault. 

I’ll disagree Alf. I dare you to show a post war picture of Aleppo to ANYONE and ask them to tell you what it’s a picture of. I’ve tried that experiment and not a single person could tell me. The same is definitely not the case with Ukraine. 

Ukraine was a peaceful republic, so ya, the media is of course going to have more access than to a dangerous country torn apart by civil war 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Those of us who were against the Iraq invasion and the occupation of Afghanistan were called traitors or something like that...

 

How'd those two wars work out? Still have your pom poms, or are you pretending like you were never a cheerleader for Bush's forever wars?

Red White and Blue Pom Poms in hand regarding those wars. I’m pointing our how all the world is fawning over these poor “white” people and not giving two ***** about those POC’s.  Me personally? I’m not crying crocodile tears for the Ukrainians.  

[ALF]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Red White and Blue Pom Poms in hand regarding those wars. I’m pointing our how all the world is fawning over these poor “white” people and not giving two ***** about those POC’s.  Me personally? I’m not crying crocodile tears for the Ukrainians.  

 

We get it,  your a big supporter of Putin and slaughtering innocent  civilians .

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Insurance companies are indemnified by a war clause that eliminates their exposure during war.

How fun that was after 911?  Was it a war?  Was it not a war?  Do we pay out insurance claims?  

8 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

We get it,  your a big supporter of Putin and slaughtering innocent  civilians .

***** you!  You have no idea what I do or don’t support.  The day we do something to help the homeless guy/gal (often a military vet) who screams at the lamp post then I will give two ***** about Ukrainians.  Can we do both?  Sure but helping Americans should always come first and we ain’t doing squat for the homeless here. 

[BillStime]

Armpit of America

 

 

 

 

 

MMMMHMMM - it's the only way they can win